What would you tell someone who is interested in homeschooling but...

[Apiphobic]

she is a single mom and has a full-time day job outside the home? 

 

She has a 15 yo girl who is in 10th grade and a 7 yo girl who is in 2nd grade. Both want to homeschool. The older daughter did K12 for a year but it wasn't challenging enough.

 

I want to tell her she can, but I just don't know how realistic it is. I mean, of course she can if they want it badly enough, everybody works together, everything goes smoothly... and the sun always shines and you can find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I just know that life happens and things don't always go smoothly. And I don't know if it'd bring more headache and stress on their family if they started homeschooling.

 

So what would you tell her?

[Apiphobic]

Very good point. I guess I focused on "can" or "can not" because that's the way she phrased her question.

 

*kicking myself now  :svengo:

 

I did talk about our day, offer some book suggestions, and even mentioned this site as a wonderful resource. But I feel like I didn't do enough.

Tbh, I was really hoping for some "been there, done that" stories from people here who worked outside the home and were still able to homeschool as a single parent. Anything is possible, right? 

[IsabelC]

Well as you realize it's impossible for other people to tell this person that she can or can't home-school. It depends on so many different factors. What financial and material resources does she have available? What support and help is there from parents, in-laws, ex partner, other relatives, friends, neighbors etc? How mature is the older kid? Could she supervise the younger kid?  Is it safe to leave them with no adult? How flexible is the mom's work? Just to mention a few, there are obviously lots more considerations!

 

I would be inclined to link her into all the home ed groups (online and real life) you know so that she might be able to find and talk with others who have home educated in similar circumstances to her (and yes, there are such people). She needs as full a picture of what it might be like as possible before making the decision. She might find that taking another year to rearrange her family circumstances (eg transition to a more work-from-home friendly job) is a better choice, or she might find that with a bit of careful planning and effort it is possible to home-school now.

[Coco_Clark]

I don't know any single moms that home school, but I do know several homeschooling two-parent homes in which both parents work, a few other homeschooling split homes in which both parents work, and one army family that homeschools (with one parent often overseas and one working).  They generally instruct in the evenings and weekends and have independent work that's expected to be done during the day and honestly I cant think of any good reason why a single mother could not do the same.  Of course she can.  Will it be easy?  Of course it wont.  Will it go smoothly?  Of course it wont.  But at the same time, of course she CAN.  Will it bring more headache and stress?  Most likely.  But it will most likely bring a lot of closeness, responsibility training, and fun.  

 

I'd give her what resources I knew of that might help and leave her to decide what she is and isnt capable of.  

[Ellie]

she is a single mom and has a full-time day job outside the home? 

 

She has a 15 yo girl who is in 10th grade and a 7 yo girl who is in 2nd grade. Both want to homeschool. The older daughter did K12 for a year but it wasn't challenging enough.

 

I want to tell her she can, but I just don't know how realistic it is. I mean, of course she can if they want it badly enough, everybody works together, everything goes smoothly... and the sun always shines and you can find a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. I just know that life happens and things don't always go smoothly. And I don't know if it'd bring more headache and stress on their family if they started homeschooling.

 

So what would you tell her?

 

I'll be the dissenting voice and say that unless she can find someone for her children to be with during the day, it's just not feasible for her at this time.

[Tanikit]

We spoke to someone recently who's children were in a private school - the husband wanted them to be homeschooled and the wife whose primary responsibility it would be did not want to homeschool them. Firstly we told her how it worked for us and that is looked different for every family in our group. Then we told her to look at every other option available - could she hire a tutor, because there is little law regarding homeschooling where I live it is even possible (though not legal) to get someone else to help part time with the homeschooling - as in making groups for group learning, look at co-ops, look at schools that run on a homeschooling curriculum, look at working from home in the evenings, look at getting at least the eldest very independent with her work, look at babysitters and other forms of child care that can take place in the home. Look at what the law states and see if you can fit in with that in any way that works for her. Let her decide what her priorities are and also what her children think would happen if they were homeschooled - how do they think it will be for them - what about friends and sports and other activities?

 

I do not know what the lady we spoke with will do - that is up to her. We just wanted to give her an idea of what is out there other than private school and what the costs involved would be and we wanted to tell her how homeschool can look and that it can look totally different for anyone else.

[regentrude]

I see no problem with the 15 year old, but whether she can homeschool the 7 y/o depends on whether she can find a child care option. The schooling is not the problem, that can be done around mom's work schedule - but the child care is.

And no, I do not think it reasonable to expect a 15 year old to pursue on her own high school studies while simultaneously taking care of her little sibling. That is an option I would reserve for dire family emergencies.

 

So, before exploring curriculum options and schedules, she needs to figure out the child care situation.

[SKL]

Whether the mom's job allows her to be at home during enough of the kids' waking hours would be good to know.

 

I am a single working mom with two 7-year-olds, and I don't homeschool because I consider my kids to be better off in school.  However, I think it would be "possible" because I work mostly at home, and because they are now old enough to take care of their mundane needs and to do independent work.  I thought about this a year ago, and I would have said no, it wasn't practical, because they were too needy then.

 

The past few "snow days" have been interesting.  I gave the kids some things to do in the morning and some more things to do in the afternoon.  In between, they watched some educational DVDs, practiced piano, got their own meals, and played.  In the evening, I worked with them as I always do (we afterschool).  It was much more relaxed than our usual routine of rushing around in the morning, rushing around after school, and trying to cram in homework, afterschooling, and all the normal family stuff in the evening hours.

[ezrabean2005]

I agree with the PP: the child care situation is the one that is the most important.  School can easily be fit in in the evenings and/or weekends.  When I was not with DS8, he was with DH at our café.  We homeschooled this way for a few years before I left my full time job.

 

Also, she may have to keep the kids in school just for the timing and schedule of the child care.  She could still afterschool.  That works very well for many families with less pressure on the entire family unit.

[stripe]

I'll be the dissenting voice and say that unless she can find someone for her children to be with during the day, it's just not feasible for her at this time.

Not everyone works days. But what the kids are going to do while she's at work is a critical question.

 

ETA: It has been pointed out that this parent works days. That doesn't change that someone has to watch her kids while she's at work. I was not disagreeing with Ellie, which I guess is not allowed, so good thing I didn't.

[Ellie]

Not everyone works days. But what the kids are going to do while she's at work is a critical question.

 

The OP's friend works days. I was only addressing her situation. :-)

[SKL]

By the way, there's a social group on here for working homeschooling parents.  I didn't notice any single moms on it, but maybe....

[regentrude]

Not everyone works days.

 

The OP stated explicitly that her friend

 

 

 

has a full-time day job outside the home

[Elisabet1]

I would just answer her questions about home schooling and leave out any opinions on if she personally can do it. Sometimes, someone asks to be polite, or because they are interested, or just making conversation, but they are not planning to do it themselves. Just chat with her, tell her whatever she wants to know, keep things positive, and so on.

[SKL]

She might also be thinking along the lines homeschooling in the future, or homeschooling only the older until the situation is better for the younger to be at home all day.  I agree with giving her info and sources and letting her figure out what's feasible.

[SKL]

PS, when I was 16-17 I took care of my 4yo sister all day and taught her reading, writing, and arithmetic.  I was in college and most of my classes were in the evenings (our parents both worked).  While a 4yo is obviously different from a 7yo in terms of how much they are required to learn in a year, it might not be completely ridiculous for the two kids to be at home doing independent work while the mom works.  It depends on the dynamic between the sisters.

[Farrar]

I think it would be fine (though not easy) to homeschool a motivated 15 yo while having a job that kept you away all day. But not a 7 yo, not without a change of circumstances...

[stripe]

The OP stated explicitly that her friend

Okay. Gosh. Sorry to all the people who corrected me that I missed that.

 

But I will stand by my statement that "But what the kids are going to do while she's at work is a critical question." 

 

Hope you're all mollified. Sheesh.

[Rebel Yell]

My thoughts would be to find the right program for her DD if what she used before didn't work, but consider a cyber or online school for the younger girl- that way, older sister would only be responsible for helping with lunches and stuff, not teaching the younger girl.

[Pen]

I'm a single parent homeschooling, though not working outside of the home, and know others who are, doing that.  It is certainly possible. But it would depend on the maturity and motivation of both children, and if the 15 year old is going to be in charge of the 7 year old during the day, then on whether that is feasible in actuality. Getting materials that would be suitable for self-propelled learning would be important, IMO. It might actually be easier than dealing with Brick and Mortar school if the details can be arranged. .

[Ellie]

 

ETA: It has been pointed out that this parent works days. That doesn't change that someone has to watch her kids while she's at work. I was not disagreeing with Ellie, which I guess is not allowed, so good thing I didn't.

 

Seriously? :blink:  People disagree with me all the time. More than once I've been out standing in my field. :laugh:

[Pen]

Not everyone works days. But what the kids are going to do while she's at work is a critical question.

 

ETA: It has been pointed out that this parent works days. That doesn't change that someone has to watch her kids while she's at work. I was not disagreeing with Ellie, which I guess is not allowed, so good thing I didn't.

 

 

Maybe it depends where one resides. Where I am a 15 year old can be at home alone, and could at least legally be in charge of the 7 year old while the parent is at work. Whether that would work in the actual situation of the two children depends on the exact children and circumstances.

[La Texican]

Since the girl is fifteen I would seriously consider her college plans. School counts at that age. I would make a thread on the highschool forum to find out the particulars of a homeschool transcript. I would tell her to consider what it takes for her daughter to go to the college she wants to. Some people take community college or dual enrollment at that age. She probably has already considered wether her daughter is self motivated enough to do her work without looking over her shoulder, or if watching the seven year old would interfere with her work. I'm sure she knows what kind of kids she's raising. At fifteen I would point out that school counts and tell her she's brave to consider doing this so close to college, just to bring up the college topic and see what she's thinking about it. I guess I would be asking questions like this instead of giving her advice. Has she tried the SAT and scored well? If so, I would be more supportive of her homeschool goals. I've read the SAT scores go a long way in validating a homeschool transcript for college, unless she intends to go to community college. You mentioned she found k-12 too easy. I would think that means either planning on a university or a community college.

[Crimson Wife]

I know someone who is a single mom employed FT, and she has her nanny oversee her children's work. They are enrolled with K12 but there may be other options for independent work if K12 isn't a good "fit".

[Apiphobic]

Thank you all for your input. You've brought up many interesting points.

 

She works 6 am to 2:30 pm, and they have been considering this for a while now. The girls get along well, and I did not get the impression that the older dd would be schooling the younger one.

 

FWIW, I would've had no problem leaving my 15 yo dd at home with my youngest. I guess it depends on how mature your kids are, if you're able to communicate easily via text, phone, or email, and how close you are to home. I can remember several summers spent babysitting all week long during my teens, and this was before email and text.

 

Anyway, she and I are still discussing this, and I appreciate your comments. I hope I'm not overwhelming her with information and links! :)

Thanks again.

[IsabelC]

She works 6 am to 2:30 pm, and they have been considering this for a while now. The girls get along well, and I did not get the impression that the older dd would be schooling the younger one.

 

FWIW, I would've had no problem leaving my 15 yo dd at home with my youngest. I guess it depends on how mature your kids are, if you're able to communicate easily via text, phone, or email, and how close you are to home. I can remember several summers spent babysitting all week long during my teens, and this was before email and text.

 

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to expect a 15yo to be substantially in charge of her little sister. If she is a capable girl and they get on well together, I'd be fine with older sis supervising younger sis for a few hours now and then, but shouldn't mom be doing the bulk of the schooling? 

[regentrude]

FWIW, I would've had no problem leaving my 15 yo dd at home with my youngest. I guess it depends on how mature your kids are, if you're able to communicate easily via text, phone, or email, and how close you are to home. I can remember several summers spent babysitting all week long during my teens, and this was before email and text.

 

Just a comment: this is a very different scenario than babysitting or watching a sibling occasionally for a few hours.

A babysitter's primary responsibility (and paid job) is to watch the young child.

A high school student's primary responsibility during the school year should be school. She should be entitled to at least 6-7 hours of time in which she can focus on her work. I would not consider it appropriate to expect her to focus on child care instead of schooling - again, unless dire family emergencies make this necessary as a temporary solution. She is entitled to her education.

 

[Hunter]

I did a lot of childcare of younger siblings, when I was a teen. It never occurred to me that there were any other options. I guess there were, huh? I also worked with my younger siblings on homework and "playing school" without being asked. Again, I didn't think anything of it. I guess that was both good and bad in my situation, because I was oblivious to other options. I just stepped in where there were holes.

 

In MY situation, if I'd been home with the youngers and even taken on some of the schooling, I don't think I would have gotten an inferior education to the one I got. The realities of home need to be compared to the reality of the local options. Often when we say homeschooling isn't good enough, we are comparing to the theoretic PS, not the one the students would be attending.

 

Also HOMEschooling is more about academics. There is mind, body and soul; and academics is 1/3, or less, of that package. If the local PS is academically adequate, and even safe, but soulless, then it might be better to have an inferior academic situation for one that has more soul. And for those families dealing with safety issues, academics just don't matter anymore.

 

The girls are asking to homeschool. Do they understand what they are asking for? I'd explore more why they are asking to homeschool.

 

Of course this little family can work together and homeschool. It won't be a typical TWTM education, but it doesn't necessarily have to be.

[FO4UR]

If mom is off work at 2:30 everyday, that leaves plenty of time in the afternoon & evening to do 2nd grade after work.

 

 

No one would bat an eyelash at a 15yo watching a 7yo from 3pm-midnight if parent was working a 2nd shift job.   That happens all the time.  Why is it different for 15yo to watch 7yo for the day shift instead?  This is not the ideal, but we can't cry about that.  What is the best option for these 3 people?

 

If mom has the energy...if 15yo is responsible and reliable...if 7yo is an easy child...I'd say it's very doable.  I would not expect the 15yo to be in charge of "2nd grade" at all.  I'd expect mom to teach after work.  I would expect 15yo to complete some independent work while mom is gone and then check in when mom gets home.  I'd advise being very strict about what media is and is not allowed at home when mom isn't there.  The 2nd grader could get a lot done with Read, Write, Type and Time4Learning type games while big sister is working.

 

 

 

[regentrude]

No one would bat an eyelash at a 15yo watching a 7yo from 3pm-midnight if parent was working a 2nd shift job.   That happens all the time.  Why is it different for 15yo to watch 7yo for the day shift instead? 

 

To me it is different because I have not found afternoons being conducive to concentrated rigorous school work for either of my kids.

I would not want my kids to have to wait until 3pm before they could have uninterrupted work time and  then being prevented from participating in any extracurriculars because they have to do school until 10pm.

The little bit of school time a 2nd grader has to do, that could wait until the afternoon. But the 6-8 hours I'd expect of a college bound high schooler? Would not work for us. Only if the kid is a night owl

 

ETA: Actually, I would generally not want to have a 15 y/o babysit younger siblings for 8 hours a day every.single.day on a regular basis, even if it were in the afternoons. They are not parents. They did not choose to have young siblings. I would feel it an unfair burden to put on my kid, because she did not choose this responsibility. I would reserve this for emergency situations and keep it temporary.

[Hunter]

I would feel it an unfair burden to put on my kid, because she did not choose this responsibility. I would reserve this for emergency situations and keep it temporary.

For some families, life is just one never ending emergency. As I didn't know about all the options I had as a teen, my mom didn't know about all the options open to her either. She did all she knew to do.

 

Some of our needs might have been neglected, but my mom's level of self-neglect was far higher than any neglect of us. She honestly did not have other options, or didn't know that she did.

 

Life is hard. I'm still trying to figure it out. I know there are people who think there are all sorts of wide open doors for everyone, but I also see large groups of people who don't believe those doors are open to them. I don't know what to believe. All I do know, is that to burden families who believe in closed doors with high expectations, hurts the whole family.

 

Black and white thinking that parents who cannot provide a TWTM education, should always put their child in PS, is taking away options for a family.

 

As for missing the opportunity to participate in extra-curricula activities--well that is a closed door for a whole big portion of American society. Whether the door is imagined to be closed or truly closed, I don't know. But believing it is closed, closes it, either way.

[Hannah]

The first question I'd ask is whether the younger child sleep late?  I have a night owl and she actually does better with afternoon and evening work.  If the younger child is a night owl, then she could sleep till 10-11 in the morning and leave the older child to do her own work (assuming she's able to function well in the morning).

 

If not, then I'd be looking at other childcare arrangements for the younger child. 

[kiwik]

There is a single parents group on the chat board. Some of us home school (not me). It depends a lot on the parent's hours. Honestly in my experience 6 to 2.30 pm jobs are generally not ones that pay well enough for a nanny. If the 7 year old is a night owl like my ds4 it could work if the 15 year old could cope - even here 15 year olds can legally babysit (14 is the limit for home alone and babysitting which is a bit odd) but they probably can't legally home school. I would bat an eyelid at a 15 year old being left alone with a 7 year old 3 to 11 too.

 

I think it could work if;

 

The 15 year old agrees to it

The 15 year old is not responsible for schooling the 7 year old

The 7 year old sleeps to at least 8.30

One the mum is home the 15 year old get the rest of the day free from all household responsibilities.

Some major effort goes into organising social activities for both children.

[FO4UR]

To me it is different because I have not found afternoons being conducive to concentrated rigorous school work for either of my kids.

I would not want my kids to have to wait until 3pm before they could have uninterrupted work time and  then being prevented from participating in any extracurriculars because they have to do school until 10pm.

The little bit of school time a 2nd grader has to do, that could wait until the afternoon. But the 6-8 hours I'd expect of a college bound high schooler? Would not work for us. Only if the kid is a night owl

 

ETA: Actually, I would generally not want to have a 15 y/o babysit younger siblings for 8 hours a day every.single.day on a regular basis, even if it were in the afternoons. They are not parents. They did not choose to have young siblings. I would feel it an unfair burden to put on my kid, because she did not choose this responsibility. I would reserve this for emergency situations and keep it temporary.

 

 

I agree with you, in as much as I do not find the arrangement ideal.

 

It seems, however, that *ideal* is not an option for this family.  It's a question between 2nd-rate option #1 and 2nd-rate option #2...and which one of these will afford the children the best hope?  Obviously, none of us can give a definite answer, but I can imagine a scenario where it would be better to figure out how to homeschool in that situation rather than continue on in a PS that was a bad situation.

 

 

I would expect the 15yo to do a great portion of independent work during the day while the 2nd grader plays (maybe some educational computer games).  Even if mom were home fulltime, she would probably only spend a portion of those 6-8 hours helping her daughter with school.  Mom could spend the hours from 3-7 at the kitchen table, sharing dinner over 2nd grade work and mentoring the 15yo through her work.  It would require the 15yo to come to the table ready everyday, but it *could* work.

 

That would make certain extra-curriculars impossible, but Hunter made a great point...those extra-curriculars are probably already out of reach for this family ($$$ and such!)...and there is also weighing the importance of extra-curriculars against the reason they want to leave the PS.  (Better to Read, Write and Math well than Dance or Sing or Play!)  If we had to choose between extra-curriculars *or* solid academics, I would choose solid academics every time.  Solid academics opens up more opportunity...it's the best hope.

 

 

This is a temporary situation.  The oldest will turn 18, and then she'll have a 5th grader alone.  A plan needs to be in place for that time.

[Wheres Toto]

Thank you all for your input. You've brought up many interesting points.

 

She works 6 am to 2:30 pm, and they have been considering this for a while now. The girls get along well, and I did not get the impression that the older dd would be schooling the younger one.

 

FWIW, I would've had no problem leaving my 15 yo dd at home with my youngest. I guess it depends on how mature your kids are, if you're able to communicate easily via text, phone, or email, and how close you are to home. I can remember several summers spent babysitting all week long during my teens, and this was before email and text.

 

Anyway, she and I are still discussing this, and I appreciate your comments. I hope I'm not overwhelming her with information and links! :)

Thanks again.

 

 

If mom is off work at 2:30 everyday, that leaves plenty of time in the afternoon & evening to do 2nd grade after work.

 

 

No one would bat an eyelash at a 15yo watching a 7yo from 3pm-midnight if parent was working a 2nd shift job.   That happens all the time.  Why is it different for 15yo to watch 7yo for the day shift instead?  This is not the ideal, but we can't cry about that.  What is the best option for these 3 people?

 

If mom has the energy...if 15yo is responsible and reliable...if 7yo is an easy child...I'd say it's very doable.  I would not expect the 15yo to be in charge of "2nd grade" at all.  I'd expect mom to teach after work.  I would expect 15yo to complete some independent work while mom is gone and then check in when mom gets home.  I'd advise being very strict about what media is and is not allowed at home when mom isn't there.  The 2nd grader could get a lot done with Read, Write, Type and Time4Learning type games while big sister is working.

 

I agree.  Being off work at 2:30 makes the whole thing easier IMO.  If they are seriously considering it, I would assume the mother already feels she has the energy to be involved with schooling at least the younger child after work and/or on weekends.    A 7 year old who likes to read, play on the computer or just play with toys doesn't need non-stop entertainment and the older daughter should be able to get reading or simple school done while watching the younger, and do the more intensive stuff once mom is home. 

 

Many extra-curricular activities for elementary ages are already done outside of school so that will come down to if they can afford it since mom will be home in time to do the driving to most things.

 

Maybe it's not an idea situation but how many of us have the ideal?  Stay at home parent with enough money to do whatever activities the kids are interested in with transportation needs for multiple children easily taken care of?

 

I'm not a single parent but dh and I both work full time and our kids are still homeschooled.  We have a nanny that watches them and does school with them during the day.  Before we hired her earlier this month, my mother watched them but was unable to take them anywhere and did very little school with them.  We had them doing Time4Learning, reading lots of books, and Handwriting without Tears.  It wasn't ideal but they made progress (dd made amazing progress with reading actually) and it was the best solution for us at that time.  

 

I know I've seen comments about the legality of having a nanny doing the homeschooling.  Is there any state where the laws would not allow for a parent to homeschool around a full time schedule while having someone watch the kids during their work hours?  Whether than person actually does any of the schooling or not?

[Coco_Clark]

I think many homeschooling families come from a place of privilege that make the realities of single family homes foreign.

 

Getting off by 3 makes it so doable to me. There are several hours there to learn in before a typical bedtime. Even better if the kids are night owls that can have a late bedtime. Just because the 16 year old is watching her sister during the day does not mean she is responsible for educating her. She babysits her during the day, they school in the evening- it's just an average schedule flipped. My husband took the bus home and then babysat his brothers and started dinner for his (single) mom's arrival at 7. A lot of kids do that.

 

My sister watched all of our siblings from 6-4 during the summers, and a few neighbor kids to boot, starting when she was 12. No one thought it was strange back then. Then again it was the early 90s and everyone we knew was similarly poor. You do what you have to and I don't think children suffer from a little self sufficiency. It's not ideal, but then again neither is public school.

[G5052]

I know several single moms who homeschool, but they each have worked out ways of always having an adult in charge of educating the younger ones. They don't expect siblings to do that on an ongoing basis other than having them read aloud or do a craft with the younger ones.  Certainly the mom could work with the younger one when she gets home, and hopefully the older one could get some schoolwork done while watching the younger one, although I'd watch how that works.

[Crimson Wife]

Honestly in my experience 6 to 2.30 pm jobs are generally not ones that pay well enough for a nanny.

Maybe not a nanny, but are there any retirees in the neighborhood who might be willing to offer a supervised setting for the girls for a reasonable fee? That's what my IL's did for afterschool care back when DH and SIL were growing up.

[SLT]

I will say it can definitely work. I was the 15 year old who begged to be out of school with two working parents. My parents finally relented, and it was a wonderful situation. If the 15 year old is motivated to homeschool, I think she will be more than willing to help out while mom is at work.

 

Depending on wake time, there may be as few as 4-5 hours to keep busy before mom gets home. If the mother could arrange certain video or book studies that the younger daughter could do on her own, that would be great to do while the teen is reading or working on studies. Afternoons could be spent on school, planning the following day and going over completed work for the day.

 

This completely depends on the motivation of both daughters and especially the maturity of the oldest. Hope it works out for them! It allowed a lot of opportunities in my life that I would not have otherwise had.