Your thoughts on deciding when to put a pet down? Update

[Laurie4b]

Update: she had a urinary infection, which is apparently pretty common in dogs with mobility problems. So with antibiotic treatment and a pill that helps with sphincter control, the urinary incontinence which was so troublesome is now very infrequent. Her mobility is still not great and she requires human help for her to go from lying down to standing, but we are now back in a realm where it seems more workable for now.

 

While I am open to hearing all opinions, I hope that people will express them kindly, and not condemn anyone else for their point of view.

 

 

Our 15 year old English shepherd is going downhill. She was 75 lbs in her prime, so a big dog. (She's down to 60 lbs now. There are no tumors or anything visible on x-ray)  So she's also at the end of a pretty long lifespan for a big dog.

 

I have conflicting thoughts in my head. I know I'm supposed to be measuring quality of life, but that is hard to do in some ways. And there is the toll it's taking on us to care for her as well.

 

She does still "smile" when she goes on short walks outside (they have to be very short), when she interacts with our family, and when a dog visits our house or she gets to visit (our next door neighbor, for instance.) She also enjoys her food and definitely treat foods. Her tail is affected by her condition, so she doesn't wag very much anymore and tends to carry it in a raised position.

• Her major organs are all in relatively good shape as per x-ray, blood work, and exam. However she has mobility issues and incontinence issues (somewhat related to the mobility.)
• Vet says the mobility is likely neurological, not pain based, though on the other hand, she also says inflammation may be pressing on the nerves. (That does hurt. I've BTDT myself.) We're going through some different meds to see if they help.
• She can only rarely get up from lying down to standing. We nearly always have to lift her up and she's fairly heavy. (60 lbs) She yips when she wants to get up for any reason.
• Her hind legs kind of cross at first and she can veer off to the left and fall. We've built her a ramp to get to the backyard, though she still seems to prefer the steps.
• She has been incontinent with respect to bowels for a while. In the effort to get up, she would sometimes poop, or it would just happen while she was lying down sleeping. She doesn't seem to be able to hold it for long (for instance, if I hear her yipping and don't have shoes on to go out with her right away, it can be too late. She can come in from being outside and poop.
• Recently, she's started the same thing with urine. She has a heavy undercoat, so we'll go to pick her up and find that she is soaked. It reeks. I gave her a bath Tues night and she went in the kitchen and peed herself within about 5 min. I can't keep up with it bathing her every time she pees herself.
• We keep her confined to our kitchen because we have Pergo throughout the rest of the house and the Pergo got warped in the living room when she peed next to a piece of furniture and it seeped under there and we didn't see it. Our kitchen is fairly large, but she would rather have the run of the house.

We are currently giving her Vetprofen (like Ibuprofen) to reduce any inflammation that may be pressing on spinal cord, Tramadol (pain killer and mild sedative), glucosamine, and as of yesterday, a pill to help her with sphincter control to see if that will help the incontinence.  We go to the vet on Fri for another evaluation to see if she can decide whether it's simply neurological and will keep progressing or whether we should switch to something else for the inflammation.

 

My conflict comes because we are so weary with the constant care yet I feel guilty about putting a pet down because of inconvenience if she is still getting some enjoyment out of life and is not in pain. (That is unclear to me right now.) On the other hand, it is stressful on our family and we have other stressors as well.

 

What are people's thoughts? How do you think about balancing human convenience with a pet's life? What questions would you have for the vet? I know it's close to the time to put her down but don't know how to tell when that point has arrived.

 

Right now, our plan is to see if the pills work to help the incontinence and to see if there is another anti-inflammatory that might work better. We need several days to determine that.

 

 

[FaithManor]

If the pills for incontinence and the anti-inflammatory do not work, I would be comfortable with putting her down. I guess my most recent experience probably colors my perspective. My parents dog incurred a bout of pancreatitis. The vet kept saying that he could save the dog, but Buddy was in a lot of pain, suffering mightily, and these efforts went on for several days ending with my parents going to his basket to check on him and finding he had passed away on his own. But, the thing is, he really suffered. There was little the vet could do for his pain too. So, my parents ended up feeling miserable and guilty that they caused their beloved friend so much pain.

 

I really struggle with the suffering end of things. So, I guess I prefer that they be put down before it reaches a really painful stage because they simply can't understand that you are trying to save their life, and that maybe they can come out the other side in a better place. For them, all there is the right here and right now and that's pain and suffering. I don't know; the boys were helping to take care of Buddy and the pain in his eyes was palpable. The boys were very upset that the vet did not agree to put him down much sooner.

 

Only you can really tell though how much suffering your pet is enduring, or if she has much pain.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  Faith

[J-rap]

I'm so sorry, these decisions are the most difficult ones I've ever had to make.  Honestly, I think you know when you know.  Once you are even considering it, it is most likely getting at least close.  Our first dog was much like yours at about that age, and in a matter of months he got only worse, to the point where it was obvious he had very little enjoyment in his life anymore.  What made him truly happiest (as far as we could tell, of course), was just being with us.  He could no longer follow us upstairs anymore to sleep in our room at night (and he was too big to carry).  The last time he tried, he made it about 1/4 way up and then stumbled and fell all the way down.  It was heart-breaking.  He was in pain anytime he moved, even to lie down or stand up.  He couldn't hold his head up very well anymore, and could no longer hear our voices -- which had also been such a comfort to him. 

 

We finally reached a point where it just seemed very unnatural to keep him alive.  As Faith said, dogs live for the here and now.  They don't understand our intentions, or our hopes that they might get better.   I think if the medication doesn't seem to relieve your dog, and given that she can barely stand up on her own anymore, you should not feel guilty about putting her to sleep.

 

Again, I'm very sorry.  Those sweet dogs become such a big part of the family!  It is never easy.

[mom2bee]

I don't like to put an animal down. If they can kindly pass away, then I prefer to allow them too. If there is an absolutely, extremely prohibitive cost (financial or other wise) then I can see considering it. But if the animal isn't actively suffering and still enjoying its life, I wouldn't want to put him/her down. I don't think that this is an easy decision and is probably one you will have to make with your family first and foremost.

 

Based on the situation you described, I would NOT put Fido down. Have you considered trying to rehome her or finding a shelter or rescue to take in upper-aged animals?

[datgh]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  You are going through with what I dread I may need to one day. I hope the medication for the incontinence works. We did have an older dog once who had that problem and it turned out she was eating more protein than was healthy for an older dog (she kept eating the cat food). Give her a lot of love.  My guess is she will look at you one day saying it is OK to go and you will be at peace with your decision.

[texasmama]

In retrospect, my parents should have had our dog put down before he fell into the pool and drowned.  He was old, weak and I think suffering, but my mom could not bring herself to do it.  We had him for 14 years.

 

You are a kind person who loves the dog and has gone to some lengths to help her live a good, happy life.  Either choice is fine - keeping on or putting her down.  I think that this will likely be a process of considering the options prior to making a decision on the timing.  That will be part of your process in this.  Due to the care you have put into this dog and into the decision, it will be the "right" one for your family in the timing which is best for all of you and the dog. No guilt.  (((hugs)))

[umsami]

:grouphug:

 

I would ask the vet for his/her advice, because no doubt they've seen many other dogs with similar issues and can realistically give you an idea as to quality of life for the dog, impact on the family, etc.

 

I came close to having to make this decision with my cat Sabrina.  She had been attacked by a dog, and then took shelter under a neighbor's porch for two days in the cold.  By the time we found her, she was very bad.  We took her to the emergency vet, and while they tried to help her, they told me it was not a good prognosis.  They went to get her for me, so that I could have some time with her, but she died in the tech's arms being brought to me.

[Pawz4me]

Have you considered trying to rehome her or finding a shelter or rescue to take in upper-aged animals?

 

As someone who has worked in animal rescue for decades, I assure you that there are no homes out there for 15 yo old incontinent dogs.  There aren't anywhere near enough homes for young healthy animals, let alone elderly animals or even younger animals with any sort of special need.  There just aren't.  And IMHO it's unspeakably cruel to leave an elderly animal who has been a beloved pet at a shelter.  Shelter workers reserve special choice words for people who do that.

 

To the OP -- While many people will say that you'll know when it's time, as someone who has walked this road many times, I've very rarely found that to be true.  The only times I've really known was when the pet had a terminal illness (something beyond "just" being old) that was advanced.  My personal opinion, FWIW, is that it's better to be a little too early than a little too late.

 

I'm sorry.  I know how very hard it is. :grouphug:

[arnold]

We had to have our male collie put 11  months ago. All I can say is you'll know when it's time. We debated and thought about it for a couple months before we did it. When it gets time you'll just know.

[Heatherwith4]

IMO, in that situation and with the dog having already had a long life, I would put her down. It is still hard, and it still sucks, I know. :grouphug:

[Miss Marple]

First off, let me say how sorry I am that you are going through this.  It is a tough decision that ultimately must be made by you.  I was in the same position last fall - I put all 3 of my beloved dogs down within the span of 4 months.  In all cases the vet(s) said that it was appropriate time.  I delayed with all of them.  Your dog sounds a lot like my old lab.  She was about 13 years old and became intermittently incontinent and had horrible hips.  I was unable to load her into a vehicle to take her for grooming so she smelled bad.  She still enjoyed her food...I don't think that would have ever changed.  She still wagged her tail when given attention and often just because :)  She was a happy dog who never verbalized pain.  However, she could hardly get up once she was down.  Our home is raised with 4 steps.  In order for her to go outside to do her business she had to go up and down the stairs.  When she started falling on the steps I knew the time had come.  I had been told by many that she would tell me when it was time.  However, she never did and I don't think she ever would.  She was in pain according to the vet (based on her hip xrays).  I struggled with the idea of putting her down, but in the end I could not see allowing her to live that way any longer.  It was hard being there, holding her head in my lap, but she is now pain free.  I have to say that some of the decision took into account my age and the state of my back.  I simply could not lift her and knew that if she fell I would be helpless until someone else could help me.  I know we could have done diapers, lifts, etc., but the quality of life, imo, would just not be there.  In addition, we have to travel some and finding someone else to care for such an animal is very difficult.  I have no regrets...I had some depression after putting down the last one (lasted about 2 weeks) but now I'm forging ahead looking forward to the new year and what it might offer.  I have not replaced any of the dogs (we still have 3 cats - 2 of which are pets) because I am enjoying the freedom of being able to be away from home for several hours at a time without worry.  At this point, caring for my MIL is taking a lot of time.

 

For me, the advice of 2 different vets helped me make what I felt, at the time, was a selfish decision.  But in hindsight, I don't feel it was selfish at all.  It was the kind thing to do.  

 

The other 2 dogs:

mini poodle (my shadow) - severe congestive heart failure.  I knew it was time when she was so scared one night she laid on my chest the whole night and didn't sleep (neither did I).

 

Siberian husky/wolf hybrid - dumped but brought home by my son.  Probably dumped because he could no longer be bred.  We cared for him for about 2 years as he slowly grew more and more unable to get around.  His xrays showed no hip socket.  The vet said that if the head of the femur ever moved, he would be in excruciating pain and unable to move.  I waited about 6 months until he rose from laying down one morning and stood in the middle of the room and cried for what seemed like forever.  He was stuck and could not move.  He also was having trouble with bowel incontinence.  

 

It's OK to let them go...but it is hard for us.  Again, I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.  It is never easy.

[Miss Marple]

 

 

To the OP -- While many people will say that you'll know when it's time, as someone who has walked this road many times, I've very rarely found that to be true.  The only times I've really known was when the pet had a terminal illness (something beyond "just" being old) that was advanced.  My personal opinion, FWIW, is that it's better to be a little too early than a little too late.

This is exactly what I experienced.  Even when driving to the vet I was second guessing myself.  

[redsquirrel]

I've only had cats, and over the years I've had to put a lot of them down. My personal guidelines are when the cat is in pain or has stopped eating. In all cases it has been an easy, but not painless decision. Our last cat had kidney failure and it was clear where she was headed (she was at least 15 at the time) and we did it maybe few days eariler than strictly necessary, but we had small children and I needed to do it when they had somewhere else to be. 

 

I've always wondered what I would do if it were about expense. I do know that I have limits, but I don't know what that is.

[Dory]

If the pills for incontinence work, I'd keep going. If they don't, then I would consider putting her down. It's always a tough decision, but if the animal is still enjoying life, and isn't peeing all over the place, then I would keep going. I've had to put down numerous dogs in the past 10 years, even when there was no emotional attachment, it was still a hard decision.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[I talk to the trees]

:grouphug:  It sucks to see a beloved friend go downhill, doesn't it? I have no advice for you, but I have been in your shoes a few times, and want you to know that you are not alone in the struggle to make that decision. I hate, hate, hate having to decide when my dear friend's life is over. Fortunately, the last time I had to make this decision, my little boy did it for me. He was struggling with lymphoma, and the medications we gave him bought him some time, but ultimately, when he refused food (even roast beef from my plate!) we knew he had had enough. Caring for him those last few months was exhausting, but when I look back, I am glad I did, as we shared some great snuggles during that time. (He always wanted to be close to one of us. I think that made him feel safer.)

[Laurie4b]

Thank you, everyone for your stories and thoughts. I appreciate them. What I am hearing is: it's as murky as I think it is, but I'm not alone.

 

I will either keep her here or put her down. This is her home and we are the family she has known since we got her from a pound when she was less than a year old.

 

Please keep sharing your stories and thoughts. Maybe something in there will "click" for me now or next week or whenever it's time to click.

[heartosunshine]

:grouphug:

 

Our old greyhound is having some of the same issues. He struggles to his feet after laying down and often sags in the back end. He can no longer do stairs (too many falls) so we've confined him to the family room and have penned off an area within it for night-time. Right now, he takes 4 pills in the morning and 3-4 at night depending on his pain level. He is on a medication to control bladder spasms & so far has not had additional issues with that.

 

It's difficult to know how much pain is too much in a dog. Our vet, also a pain management specialist vet, says that dogs just don't complain. When they lose function, you know the pain is bad because they tend to keep going no matter what. If our boy gets to the point where he can no longer get up or has uncontrolled incontinence, we'll probably make that last trip to the vet. It's not an easy decision and we take it day by day.

[kathy_overman]

We too are faced with this.  Our 18 year old Lab/Shep. mix has taken a quick turn downwards.

 

We plan to put her down, as quickly as we can get there emotionally.  We do not want her to have to be VERY obviously and painfully suffering before we take the step. 

 

Today, she is no longer her self, she is not even her 'old lady self'.  She is now a very very very old lady with lots of old age issues.  It stinks, and I pray for an event to take her life so we do not have to.  Unfortunately, that will most likely not happen.   I do believe we have to make this decision, even though it is so extremely difficult and we don't want to lose her.

 

The truth is we have lost her, now we just have to let her go.  Double, triple Ugh! In the end, I think we will know when WE are ready to say goodbye (and her too).  We are not there yet, but getting closer.

[Laurie]

Did the urinary incontinence begin before the Tramadol?  (I ask because I know from experience that elderly people taking pain killers can develop this problem so maybe it can be a side effect in a senior dog as well?)  Pain killers can also cause constipation so I would wonder how much the pain killers are contributing to your poor dog's problems?

Just a thought, but are there any vets in your area who can do acupuncture treatments?  I know there are some who offer this for animals for things like pain management with good results (my own experiences concerning the benefits of acupuncture are only with humans, I'm afraid).

 

But at this point, I think you really need to consider how this high level of care is affecting your own health and well being.  You've had your own struggles and right now your dog is not able to live without the "life support" that you're providing.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laurie4b]

I am dealing with a similar situation with my 16 yo dachshund. He's happy and not in pain but wears a diaper and is mostly in continent. He's in a wheelchair and can't walk. However, he weighs 17 lbs and can wear a baby diaper, has short hair, etc. So that helps with my being able to continue to care for him. Hugs to you, whatever you decide. But do either keep her at home or put her down. No shelter.

 

Yes, if she were smaller, it would be easier. I am worried that dh or I will slip a disc or something trying to help her up. (It doesn't always go smoothly). The young men around here are often gone and not able to help.

 

Where do you get a wheelchair?

 

Thanks for the hugs. Back to you!

[TracyP]

I heard a vet speaking about this the other day. She said that she has never met anybody who felt like they put their pet down too soon, only those who felt they had waited too long. She said that when you start to wonder, it is probably the right time.

 

:grouphug: I dread the day we have to face this with our dog. :(

[Laurie4b]

Did the urinary incontinence begin before the Tramadol?  (I ask because I know from experience that elderly people taking pain killers can develop this problem so maybe it can be a side effect in a senior dog as well?)  Pain killers can also cause constipation so I would wonder how much the pain killers are contributing to your poor dog's problems?

Just a thought, but are there any vets in your area who can do acupuncture treatments?  I know there are some who offer this for animals for things like pain management with good results (my own experiences concerning the benefits of acupuncture are only with humans, I'm afraid).

 

But at this point, I think you really need to consider how this high level of care is affecting your own health and well being.  You've had your own struggles and right now your dog is not able to live without the "life support" that you're providing.  

 

Very good question. The urinary incontinence started after the Tramadol.

 

Today she's having a very good day. I think that's part of what makes it hard. There are some days when I think, okay, this is the end and then the next day or two, she'll be good again. Today, our son took her for a walk. I usually only walk her on a flat or reasonably flat area and she takes her time, but he took her down a hill, up a very steep hill, then back home.... and she's perky and on her feet in the kitchen. Go figure.

 

[Susan C.]

You are getting close to the end…

Dogs want to please their owners, so they don't always show pain.

If she is old, but not entirely miserable, you could possibly hang on for a little while longer. I would definitely put her in diapers though or you could be facing some expensive repairs to deal with accidents.

We had a pet chinchilla (can't have dogs, allergies). I found vets wanted to keep throwing solutions and treatment when we should have been finished. I came to assume when it was all over that if you go and are not scheduling to put them down, they assume you want to treat. When I said we were finished (see below to how that was determined), they quickly accommodated us. But the decision was left to us.

How I determined it was time? I just sat and watched our chin for 30 minutes. I was crying at the end. I finally saw his pain. I got dd (he was her's) and she finally saw it. He also was completely refusing food. We took him 2 days later…. The next day we loaded him up on pain meds to where he was like before (you can only do this right before putting down), he was running up and down the stairs, we gave him all of his favorite treats, had fun with him, cried, and gave him a great last day party/good bye. I got the idea from the vet who shared how they had a favorite dog patient that was being put down. All of the vet techs chipped in to get the dog his favorite fast food, enjoyed the dog enjoying his last moment with the owner, then put him down.

Its never easy. Sorry you are nearing the end.

[Laurie]

 

 

Today she's having a very good day. I think that's part of what makes it hard. There are some days when I think, okay, this is the end and then the next day or two, she'll be good again. Today, our son took her for a walk. I usually only walk her on a flat or reasonably flat area and she takes her time, but he took her down a hill, up a very steep hill, then back home.... and she's perky and on her feet in the kitchen. Go figure.

 

 

  I always remember the little saying I heard years ago about how "motion is lotion" for the body.  I'm glad your sweet dog is feeling good and that she and your son had a nice time together!   

 

I had forgotten about this until reading your posts today, but when we had a dog who was starting to have mobility problems we bought a thing to help us support him when he was on his feet.  I don't remember what it was called, but it was a wide belt with two handles at each end.  It went under his belly and we could hold the handles to help him with stairs.  I don't know if that would help you with lifting her onto her feet, though. 

(That was something that really, really got to me...we were making him very comfortable downstairs in the kitchen/family room area but even though he was hurting he was still going to struggle to go with us when we went upstairs.)

 

[LaughingCat]

When my previous dog was close to this state (not incontinent but mostly couldn't make it outside in time) - one thing that helped me was to feed her an (expensive) grain free food - because it meant far less poops to clean up.  I also cut her back feathers/fur off.  I did not ever reach a point where I felt I could put her down -- there was no big decline, just frail and tottering but still happy up until the end.

[PeterPan]

Very good question. The urinary incontinence started after the Tramadol.

 

Today she's having a very good day. I think that's part of what makes it hard. There are some days when I think, okay, this is the end and then the next day or two, she'll be good again. Today, our son took her for a walk. I usually only walk her on a flat or reasonably flat area and she takes her time, but he took her down a hill, up a very steep hill, then back home.... and she's perky and on her feet in the kitchen. Go figure.

 

She may be very sore tomorrow.  

 

We adopted our first indoor dog older, from a shelter, so he met his end much sooner than normal for a family.  When he got to where he was sad about his state and no longer happy, we let him go.  It was horribly hard, but it was the right thing to do or at least what we did.  We went a couple years without a dog, because we thought we'd never love another, and now we have one (gotten as a puppy) and love him.  

 

I would not leave your beloved creature unhappy about his state.  With what you've described, I'd prepare to put him down.  Not a vet opinion obviously, just me.

[momofkhm]

If the pills for incontinence don't work, I'd put her down.  

 

My sweet sweet girl was going through some of the same incontinent issues at the end.  When it got to a point that she wasn't trustworthy in the house overnight, we started putting her in the garage.  I started getting the look.  That look would say, "Mom, you know it's time.  Just stop this."  I can tell you that now, but at the time ...  well, it was hard.  She was ready, I wasn't.  Even on that day, I wasn't ready.  But I so knew that she was.

 

I was talking with the lady who watched our animals when we went out of town.  She had watched Tawny for a few times.  She had clients who wouldn't know and call her.  She said that it's a look they give you.  They will let you know.

 

Tawny was still wagging when she got attention, when people came over.  But it was also time.

 

So all I can really tell you to ask yourself, is it it her that's not ready?  Or is it you?

 

 

[Ottakee]

I think you are close.  We have only had to put down 1 dog but sadly 5 horses.  With the last one the vet came out on an emergency at night when our pony went down and couldn't get up.  We thought we would have to do it right there in the arena that night but she eventually got up and was walking OK.  The vet though said that it was neurological and progressive and the kids could never ride her again or be in her stall with her again as she could go down at any moment and risk hurting them as she fell.  We decided to just take her to the vet the next morning.  We did not want to see her suffer at all.  We all cried on the way there, while there, and after we left.  It was a super hard decision to make but the right decision.

 

Hopefully you will have peace.  I am more of the earlier than later camp with this as I don't want them to be in pain or have a very poor quality of life.

[Laurie4b]

I

So all I can really tell you to ask yourself, is it it her that's not ready?  Or is it you?

 

No, it's not me. I am just committed to giving her the opportunity for life as long as there is something in it for her---if I can. The part that I'm torn about is not my feelings about putting her down but whether she would still like life but it's getting to be so burdensome for the humans here. I won't like to actually take her in there to put her down, but that is not where the conflict is. I just don't know how to figure it out. This thread has been helpful.