Ottakee Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 In the past week I have taken up cross country skiing. A friend asked me and had a pair of skis and boots and pole just my size that she picked up at a thrift store for $2.99..........yes, under $3. Last night I took one dd with me and rented her skiis for $8. The park where they have nice groomed trails, a warming lodge, etc. is just 4 miles down the road and FREE to use if you have your own skis or $8 to rent but they only rent them 4-8pm during the week and all day on weekends. That makes it more limiting. Obviously finding skis for $3 again isn't likely but what should I look for in used skis? Are the newer bindings that much better than the old 3 pin? Anything to avoid? The trails we would skis would be groomed most of the time and are gentle inclines (they have some advanced trails but don't think I will ever master those). We would likely ski for 30-60 minutes at a time (hence renting is a bad bet) but might go a few times a week all winter long. Do you need to wax "waxless" skis or not? We are totally new to this but finding it fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 3 pin bindings are not your friend. They bend at your toes and will become cold and uncomfortable much quicker than the newer boots. We prefer SNS but NNN are fantastic too. Waxless skis are good if you are just starting, but they will be much noisier and they will go significantly slower. This can be an advantage (uphill) or disadvantage (flats) depending on your perspective. Personally I dislike them, but I'm blessed with a husband who does the waxing for me. The best way to learn about xc skis is to go to a pro shop and speak with someone there. They will happily walk you through all of the details of length, fit, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I cross country skied for 2 winters for fun. Finding boots that fit right was the most important thing for me. We used 3 pin and didn't have any problems. If you have a play it again sports look there for used equipment. It probably won't be $3 but it should be reasonable. I would check your local cragslist too and find out if the place you are skiing has a bulletin board or news letter where people might post things for sale. I didn't get really good, but I did have a lot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 As my user name implies, I am a skier. I ski every day for at least an hour for 4-5 months of the year. My dh and dd are also skiers. Dd is a competitive skier. I am embarrassed to admit how many pairs of skies we own...... I gather from your OP that you are interested in classic skiing (skiing in two parallel tracks) only. 3-pin is perfectly fine for the occasional skier. As long as your feet are happy, you are good. Because you can pick up 3-pin sets for almost free, it is certainly worth a shot. If you find that you (or a family member) cannot get a good feel out of the boots, you may have to try for SNS or NNN. I would not recommend waxable skis for the occasional beginner skier. Wax is tricky and it can be very hard to get it correct, which can be very frustrating. As much as I ski, I have a pair of good waxless race skis that I take with me in the car anytime I intend to classic ski. We have a whole wax station in the basement and I always wax for conditions, but about 25% of the time, I miss the mark and have to dig out the waxless. I have started many a friend on their skiing path, and I always recommend waxless. BUT, one thing that is important with classic skis is the fit of the ski itself. Finding the right size boot and poles is pretty straight-forward. But the skis can be tricky. The ski will only function correctly if the middle area (the kick zone) touches the ground when kicking off but does not touch the ground when gliding. Ski length and flex are both more related to body weight than height. If you weigh too much for the skis, you will not glide much and will be slow. If you don't weigh enough, you will slide backward on each step. Both situations are miserable. For $3, I say take the chance. If they feel right, you are good. If not, you know you will need to go longer or shorter. If investing more, you will need to be properly fitted at a reputable shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Also, use your rental people! If you are renting right now and are happy with there performance of the skis, ask them to write down the size of the skis you are using. That will be a good guide when looking to buy used. The actual ski length is not 100% comparable across brands/types/age of the skis, but it certainly is a good starting point. Also ask them what they do with retired rental skis. Some trail systems buy all new every year and sell off the old ones. It does't hurt to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Our family has cross-country skiied for years. Honestly, for years and years all we used were the cheapest 3-pin boots and ski sets that we could find, and they were totally adequate. We even entered races with them. (Classical, of course.) All of ours were so mismatched and beat-up looking that we probably looked like clowns, but they really did work fine. :) Definitely start with the waxless. You don't want the shoes too small of course, but if they are a little big (which most of ours were), we would just add an extra pair of wool socks. Then, if you decide that you really like skiing and want to do it more aggressively, you can invest in a nice quality set. My son decided to get into racing as an older teen, and he got a great pair of waxable racing skiis and boots at an end-of-the-season REI sale. For a couple of my other daughters who have gotten into it more seriously, we gave them a nicer pair (still waxless though, because they preferred the classical style and were not planning to race) with the NNN of SNS bindings. The rest of us continue with our old hand-me-downs from garage sales, friends, or Play It Again Sports. (Although I think all of our 3-pin style boots have died, and so we've moved on to the SNS or NNN style, though they are still quite old and beat-up. :)) You do want to make sure the skiis and poles fall within the range of what they should be, size-wise. You can go online to read up on that probably. I think for classic skiis, it's something like they should reach your wrist when you're holding your hand straight up in the air. (Something like that -- I can't really remember. And of course it doesn't need to be precise, especially when you're just starting out.) I absolutely love cross-country skiing. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 What is classic skiing? I did cross country skiing decades ago, but don't remember all the terms…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 What is classic skiing? I did cross country skiing decades ago, but don't remember all the terms…. Classic (or stride skiing) is when you ski in the parallel tracks. Skating (or freestyle) is when you ski outside of the tracks in an ice-skating-like motion. Many skiers (including my family) do both and choose based on conditions. They require different types of skis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I've x-c skiied on and off for years. I did the Birkie a couple times back in the day. I was on the x-c ski team through high school. We have MANY skis over here - classic, skating, waxless . Right now, as a very casual skier with limited time, the waxless are great to go shuffle around and enjoy the winter. I would totally try the 3 pin for that price. Have fun! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Classic (or stride skiing) is when you ski in the parallel tracks. Skating (or freestyle) is when you ski outside of the tracks in an ice-skating-like motion. Many skiers (including my family) do both and choose based on conditions. They require different types of skis. Thank you! I will google some you tube videos of both, now that I know what the other kind is called. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shukriyya Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I don't have anything helpful to add to this discussion except to say I'm enjoying it. Growing with lots of snow as a child this thread is bringing back lots of memories. OP, I love your description of the trails and heading out to ski with your dd. Skimomma, your skiing life sounds exotic :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 update so far........thrift shop had a pair of 3 pin skis in my size for 75 CENTS so I figured they were worth a try. There is a local ski shop that can do the waxing as they do need wax. Don't have boots for them yet but might find them cheap. The hard part is knowing what fits right, glides the best, etc. when we don't have a clue what we are doing :-) My friend we are skiing with skied 70 miles through the tundra from one artic village in Alaska to another one along the ocean in a blizzard. SHE needed good skis. She was pulling a sled as it was a 3 day trip with NOTHING between the 2 villages so they camped out in -30 degrees. CRAZY. We though will be the occ. recreational skier most likely skiing mostly tracked/groomed areas. I don't see us skiing more than an hour at a time. I can ask the rental place what they do with their skis and if they sell them. This park is really awesome as the park is free, just ski rental costs but if you have your own everything is free......well, except the hot chocolate dd thought she needed at the end. They have the skate skiing and regular track skiing with 10 miles of trails from very easy, level terrain to some hills that I have a hard time going down on foot in the summer. There are bridges along the creek you can ski. Some of the trails are lit for night time skiing as well. In the summer we walk/hike there several times a week and they also have horse back riding trails so we ride there 1-3 times a week. The girls get bored there though as they only have about 3 1/2 miles of horse trails and they are just big loops. Still a great place to take new/green horses, take a friend riding or just go for a nice easy quick ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Skimomma, your skiing life sounds exotic :D Ha ha! It is the only way to stay sane in this climate. You either embrace it or flee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 update so far........thrift shop had a pair of 3 pin skis in my size for 75 CENTS so I figured they were worth a try. There is a local ski shop that can do the waxing as they do need wax. Don't have boots for them yet but might find them cheap. The thing about wax that makes it difficult is that you need different wax for different snow temperatures (which is different than air temperature). It is tricky. So, a shop certainly can wax them up nice but be sure to find out: 1. What the temperature range is for the wax they are applying. 2. When you will need to re-apply. You will not want to attempt to ski outside of the range. It can be very frustrating. That is why I always carry my waxless....so I have back-up. Our shops charge $15-$20 to wax so you might find it more economical to buy a few waxes and the tools you will need to do it yourself. There is also a product called grip tape. It basically converts wax skis into waxless skis. This has saved me when the temperature gets close to or above freezing. It is not something you want to try to apply yourself. That is a job for a shop to do. But it will work in just about all conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Skimomma---interesting. I might want the waxless ones then or the grip tape applied. In West Michigan the temps can fluctuate greatly. We had 50 one week, -7 with -40 windchills just over a week later then near 40 a few days later. I just want SIMPLE and ready to go whenever we want type thing. Are the new bindings much easier for a newbie to use than the 3 pin or is it just a matter of learning to use whatever you have? I also see all kinds of charts for what size to buy and they dont' all agree. One said 160 for my daughter (like she rented) but another said 170 and another 180. Then someone said since she was 130 pounds she needed longer skis than what was for her height (5') etc. I am 5'5" tall and overweight as well. I am hoping and working on losing some but will never be thin. We are really enjoying this and this winter it has been a skiers paradise around here. There has been great ski conditions at least 4-5 days a week since before Thanksgiving. Last year we had no snow for skiing until January. Just trying to figure out if it is worth trying to pay $85-120 for a used "set" that I see on Craig's list from someone that sells a lot of used skis or try buying new ones, at least for me (can't keep using my friend's forever) or just piecing together garage sale/thrift ones since we might not get to use them as much year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Honestly, 3-pin is fine, really. Many many people used them for decades. SNS and NNN hit the scene over 25 years ago but I still see 3-pin on the trails almost every time I ski. They won't win any races, but you can certainly have a good time with them. Length needs will vary with brand and type. For sure go by weight rather than height! Waxless is a bit more forgiving. I would just target the middle of the ranges you see. If you spot a good deal and would only be out a few dollars, grab anything within range. You can even put them on on a flat floor and have another person look to see if the kick zone touches the ground when you are on one set of toes but then does not make contact when flat footed (if that makes any sense). Or even use an index card and see if it will slid under the kick zone during this positions. Skis get "tired" with age and use and this is the only (free) way I can think of to really determine if the length is right and the ski is not too :tired." But even if you don't bother with any of that, if you have skis on your feet and are having a good time, you are good. It does not have to be perfect to be enjoyable and good exercise. If you catch the bug and want more out of the experience, you will have skied enough by then to get a better feel of what works for you. I really love skiing and think it is one of the few exercises that is truly accessible for anyone...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Now I am trying to decide if we just go get new skis or not. We could easily ski 3-4 times a week (me maybe more) for the next 4-6-8 weeks and at $8 each for rentals that would add up......not that I would pay to rent them that much we just wouldn't go as much. Skimomma---do you want to hop a plane to West Michigan a minute and help me out? Ski conditions should be great tonight and the rest of the weekend............and I get into instant gratification yet hate spending too much money. DOn't know when the big clearance sales might start and then if they would have the sizes we need. Are there any brands that are really good or ones to avoid? Again I just see us as recreational skiiers-----mostly level to very gently rolling areas, mostly in tracked ski areas for an hour or so at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Now I am trying to decide if we just go get new skis or not. We could easily ski 3-4 times a week (me maybe more) for the next 4-6-8 weeks and at $8 each for rentals that would add up......not that I would pay to rent them that much we just wouldn't go as much. Skimomma---do you want to hop a plane to West Michigan a minute and help me out? Ski conditions should be great tonight and the rest of the weekend............and I get into instant gratification yet hate spending too much money. DOn't know when the big clearance sales might start and then if they would have the sizes we need. Are there any brands that are really good or ones to avoid? Again I just see us as recreational skiiers-----mostly level to very gently rolling areas, mostly in tracked ski areas for an hour or so at a time. I would love to hop a plane and hep you out:) But "hopping a plane" is not really an option where I live...... I could hop a dog sled:) I don't think there are any brands to avoid. They are all good. Skis can quickly get very very expensive. I just priced out a new skate ski package last weekend. $1000. I kid not. I just about choked. And that is not even "top of the line." I decided my 15 yo skate skis are just fine! I have a growing child that I have to buy 2+ sets for each time she grows! There is no need for the recreational skier to spend that much. Especially in W. MI where the snow amount can vary so much by year. You could have whole winters when there is not enough snow. Low end new packages will run about $300 once all set up. That would get you a very nice set of skis that would last forever. However, there is so much on the used market that you can get by for much less. Ask the people at the rental place if they know of any gear swaps. Even in our tiny community, we have two a year. I have picked up great skis for a fraction of the cost. Then there is the potential for retired rentals. Even new ski/sport shops might have a "basement" where they have used/discontinued/retired-rental gear for sale. All of ours do, but unless you ask, you would never know of the option. My guess is that whoever is running the rentals at your trails would probably have the inside scoop on where to find good used gear. Or could at the very least put you in touch with someone who does. And remember, even old-as-dirt, thrift store skis can serve you very well. If you are having fun and not suffering while skiing, then you have a good enough pair for the time being. We outfit houseguests with skis on a regular basis. Many times, we don't have the exact right length for a person's weight and I worry they will not have fun. That has never happened. The only time we ever have miserable people on skis is when I get MY (or dd's) wax wrong. I don't even attempt wax skis for friends and newbies. It is too easy to turn people off of the activity that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 A dog sled would work. I am heading out to see what I can see. I asked the rental place and they dont' sell them used. They have 1 ski exchange here locally---in Oct. or Nov. Down hill skis are EVERYWHERE but cross country harder to find in the sizes we need. I am going to 2 places looking for my daughter and since I don't have her with me, I can't impulse buy anything but at least I will get to see what the 2 places have, price ranges, etc. I am seeing lots of skis in the 200cm+ range but very few in the 160-170 range she needs. Maybe will have to check Play It Again Sports---a used sports store chain as well. I can get around easier than you likely but it is still 20-50 minutes drive each way to check out the options. I have posted on line needing stuff and so far no one has stuff for sale, esp. any boots. Maybe they wear out or dogs eat them or ???? you are right about the snow. Since we are only a few miles from Lake Michigan we do tend to have more snow than farther east in Michigan but there are years where we might not get enough snow to really ski until January----------then again when we got married in April there was still plenty of snow to ski on so you never know here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Good luck with your search of used skis. I'd do the 20 - 50 minute drive to the used equipment stores, but bring the dd along. No point doing the trip without being able to try on the boots. And if you are able to find the NNN or SNS bindings and boots used, they are really worth it. The control over the skis is SO much better, and it will make it a lot more fun. The boots tend to be higher on the ankle, giving a lot more support than the typical 3-pin boots. If the ski trails you will be doing have several hills, then being able to navigate snow plow with control will be much easier and safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 Just an update. Last week we bought 17dd a pair of skis. She loves it. We ended up just getting new on sale. Since she is done growing they should last her for years and years. Tuesday I went out to a local ski shop and bought myself a pair. I needed some better ones as I am a plus size lady with short legs. They had a nice pair in my size with boots that have extra ankle support which I needed. It has been a lot of fun skiing. We have been every day but Friday.....when we had a blizzard here. This morning I went with a friend and we had 12-15 inches of new snow since yesterday. The trails were sorta groomed but not tracked. It was absolutely beautiful out in the woods. We will head back out after lunch with my daughter. Both dds have mitochondrial myopathies and tired easier than most teens so we only ski for 45-60 minutes at a time but it is a good workout and a great way to get us out of the house. We have had non stop snow. We got 13 inches Wednesday and another 12-15 last night on top of the daily few inches than have been falling. If anyone cares. Dd got Fischer skis with the NNN bindings and boots. I got the Solomon skis with SNS Pilot (double clip) bindings. It might have been nice to have the same type but these were the ones that fit us best in boots/skis for our sizes.......and price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Yippee!!!! Sounds like you are having fun! 45 minutes to an hour of skiing is great - like anything else, you build up stamina as you go. Have fun with your new skiis! I got a new pair of Jupiters this year - my first ever waxless - and am really enjoying them. Now if someone could just send winter back here - it was 50 degrees yesterday. I want my SNOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 This has worked out great for this winter since we are living in a snow globe. We had 13 inches Wednesday, 15 more inches Friday-Saturday morning, 8 more today and another 7 coming overnight--tomorrow morning. A town in our are that is more inland that doesn't get nearly as much snow as we get is at 82 inches and their normal is about 45-50 per year. We still could have snow for another 6-10 weeks or more. It sure has been beautiful skiing though. Windchills are often near or below zero with temps in the single digits or low teens but we are still outside and exercising so all is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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