MOTL?

[Cheryl in CA]

Do any of you use MOTL with children who have learning delays?  I've used Math-U-See with my other children (and loved it) but am not sure exactly what to do with my youngest who has some delays.  He's only 5 so we aren't very deep into math yet.  Most of his delays are related to communication (expressive language delay), which means we don't always know where he is in other areas (most of the time he is more advanced in other areas than we realize because he doesn't always effectively communicate, KWIM?).  I'm thinking I may need to be more "outside the box" with him (at least in the beginning) and really am not sure what to do.  I'd also like to keep writing to a minimum because he's somewhat delayed in writing and is a lefty.  We're working on it (LOVE the claw pencil grip) but don't want to overwhelm him with lots of writing.  I owned MOTL several years ago when it first came out but it wasn't a good fit for my dd (she wanted more writing and wanted to go back to MUS) but don't remember a whole lot about it, and wasn't thinking of it in terms of kids with delays/special needs.

 

Anyway, I'd love to know your experiences :-)

[bluedarling]

We tried MOTL, and I loved the concept of it, but I was not successful in using it.  My kids loved the 5-a-day concept...with just 5 problems on a page!  But I couldn't keep up with making those, especially for 4 kids.  I also had a hard time with knowing what to teach each day, and found myself rarely prepared.  MUS was a better fit for us.  I would be more inclined to just adapt MUS...only do 5 problems a day, and review with the manipulatives more?   We also have RightStart, here, since I used that with my kids when they are younger...that has lots of manipulatives!  My dd(almost 13 now) had expressive language delay...she got through the RightStart OK, but I probably frustrated her with some it, too.  She is doing well with MUS, now.  Maybe just buy more manipulatives and do familymath type activities for awhile, building the language.  He's young enough you don't need to start a program yet.  His language will probably improve greatly over the next year or two, and then you could probably start MUS with any issue.  My dd started alpha in 3rd grade!  (After doing a couple levels of Rightstart, and is mostly caught up to grade level, now.)

[Cheryl in CA]

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback :-)  I actually do have to start a program next year because he'll be compulsory school age (he'll be 6 next month) so my PSP requires it (there needs to be something listed on my Course of Study).  I could try Primer but am not sure how it will play out.  I know it doesn't require mastery like the other levels so we could get through it but I don't think he would be ready for Alpha by the time he was done.  My only choices if we stick with MUS would be to repeat Primer until he is ready for Alpha or go through Alpha really slowly, and I don't think he (or I) would love either option.  That's why I was thinking of MOTL and trying to research before next year.  Maybe I'll begin Primer now and see how he does.  I'd love it if he'd surprise me but want to be prepared if he doesn't ;-)  Thanks again!

[alef]

What about Rightstart A?

 

You certainly could use MOTL, I own the program and love the concept, but have found it difficult to implement while homeschooling multiple children.

[Cheryl in CA]

Thank you, I forgot to mention that I'll look at Rightstart.  Is Rightstart more flexible in how you teach it?  The flexibility is what is attracting me to MOTL.  I was also thinking that I could use MUS manipulatives and teaching concepts with MOTL so it would make for an easier transition into MUS when he is ready (possibly years down the road) but that might not be the best plan either, which is why I'm picking your brains :-)

[bluedarling]

Whether you go with MUS Primer or Rightstart A, the key will be to take it slow.  I think Rightstart A sounds like an excellent idea.  That could be stretched a long time without growing old.  You would just do all those fun activities over and over again....singing songs..."Yellow is the sun, six is five and one", playing with popsicle sticks, counting on the abacus...lots and lots of different manipulatives!!  (Vs. Math U See I think the blocks would get old faster.)  I think Rightstart A is probably a better fit even than MOTL for all the pre-designed manipulative activities!

[Ecclecticmum]

I'm planning to use Kitchen Table Math with my son, which is more of a "more hands on" but more free-flowing version of MOTL (which I just resold. Loved it, just wasn't using it to its full potential and we have compact space).

 

I'm planning to use KTM with him and Miquon for math labs with the rest of the family on Fridays.

 

KTM. Is very, very concrete, you can use whatever you have on hand, and it gives you enough info to supplement or create more practice if needed, no/low/little writing.

 

My only other thought if I culdn't do KTM would be to remove Miquon and do MUS (because of the manipulative similarities I really wouldn't want to do it at the same time) but I had trouble with him and MUS before. It was invisibility to him, he refused to look at the manipulatives, books, dvd or anything to do with it.

 

Other than that, I would probably with go the "Arithmetic for Young Children" followed eventually by Strayer Upton. Or down the road of Moving with Math or Touchmath, or possibly Shiller Math.

 

Every child is different, but after looking at every mainstream and out there thing, this is what I came up with (I also might of considered CSMP if my daughter wasn't doing it (I dont want them comparing where each other is up to). So hopefully it might give you a few ideas

[OneStepAtATime]

O.k. I have MUS, MOTL, Jump Math, MM, Harcourt Math 2nd -5th, I have borrowed Saxon and Singapore, I have tried Touch Math and Times Tales, you name it we tried it since poor DD struggles so much with math, searching for ANYTHING that would really help make math click for her.  

 

What really finally helped everything click?  Lots and lots of math games that work on subitization skills and practical application.  Using an abacus with the Right Start book for the abacus is something we just started and so far I really like it, too.  I use the Ronit Bird books and suggestions from MM, and a British program called Dynamo Math, plus we still incorporate the 5 a days and the checklist and some of the activities from MOTL, but you wouldn't need all those resources.  Just read up on subitization skills, work on those for a while, incorporate a lot of games and then see if concepts are solidifying before spending a ton of money on curriculum.

 

And I LOVE MOTL, but just like PP I, too, had a hard time implementing it on a day to day basis (especially with a child that struggled terrifically in math).  I couldn't tell if it was the way I was teaching the material or if something else was wrong when the kids wouldn't grasp something and would second guess myself constantly.  I also would struggle to find time to weave through all the material and write up the 5 a days.  And the kids really weren't wild about my handwriting.  I wish they had a computer based 5 a day math generator.  Maybe they do, now, though.  I know they didn't when we first bought the program, although I THINK you could track progress on-line if you chose to.

[Cheryl in CA]

Ecclecticmum - thank you so much; you have given me much to ponder!!  I have some of what you mentioned and will investigate the rest :-)

 

OneStepAtATime - wow, you are the math curriculum pro!  I very much appreciate your advice!  MOTL does have an Excel workbook for record keeping (they started that around 4 or 5 years ago) but I have no idea if they have a generator.  I would suspect not because I haven't seen one mentioned anywhere but that would definitely make a difference if they did. 

 

Next year my 2nd child will graduate from high school so I'll be down to homeschooling just 3 (K, 2nd, and 5th) and my ds going into K is the youngest so I don't think time will be a big problem but it too is something to be seriously considered.  When I tried MOTL 5 years ago our kids were 14, 13, 5, 2, and almost 1 so I had a lot less time, though what really made it not work for us was my dd (the 5 year old) wanting lots of worksheets every day.  We went back to MUS and I even bought the MM blue series to keep her in workbooks as much as she wanted.  Not my idea of fun but she loved it, LOL.

[Ecclecticmum]

On the MOTL yahoo group, is a message from someone (and the idea is possibly in the files section too) basically the woman was very busy, so she got a subscription to a worksheets place, made a binder of worksheets, that way it was pre-printed problems, and either she or her child would choose the 5 rpoblems to do.

 

Basically my suggestion if you were thinking of getting MOTL (unless you have the money right now) is to do a trial version for $20.

 

Get KTM Book 1 (you can get all three books, and transfer to MOTL further down the road, the 3 books don't really go in order, more go together for elementary students). Get either a sub to a worksheet place (http://themathworksheetsite.com/), or a drill program of some sort (there are lots of fun ones out there). Basically some sort of review plan.
 

Then use this:

for recording/planning the program.

 

I find KTM holds your hand more for the younger students, where as MOTL more has a "get past these, then we'll talk" feel for the beginning stuff.

 

This way you can see whether the whole idea/set-up is down your alley, and if so, gives you plenty of time to save up for it, rather than feeling rushed. Anyway, I see you have introduced yourself over at the group, so hopefully more people can help you out.

 

I hope to eventually, go back to using MOTL, but I won't be looking at it again till he's way past the basics.

[OneStepAtATime]

We purchased the entire MM from Homeschool Buyer's Co-op for not terribly much last year so I can access whichever series and worksheet I need.   It worked out much better that way than purchasing individual pre-printed text books since I can target just what I need to print.   I have been interweaving those with all the subitization skill building excercises we are doing and it works well, but I keep the MOTL chart for tracking, I am trying to more consistently use the 5 a days because I love those, and I just pulled out MOTL books again to review all the activities they have listed for understanding concepts and think I will start using more of those again.  I really do love MOTL,  Maybe if I made more effort now, I could make it work better with our circumstances since I have MM worksheets to use for 5 a days (just circle the ones I want them to use?).  Just thought I would give you a rundown of what I am looking at in case it might help.

 

KTM sounds great and Ecclecticmum has some great suggestions on how to make this all work, too.  Hope you find something that makes sense for your family!

[Cheryl in CA]

Ecclecticmum - thank you!  The video was very interesting!  Is her spreadsheet available somewhere or is she demonstrating it with the idea that you will create your own?  I've never used Open Office.  Is it a simpler version of MS Office?  I really like the idea of beginning with KTM and using the Open Office spreadsheet!  I think it will give me a much better idea what will work for us, and without spending $300 ;)   Thanks so much :D

[Cheryl in CA]

OneStepAtATime - thank you, that's very helpful :)  I too have MM in electronic form (blue, green, and gold) so I could use those too if needed.  Since I have plenty of time I think I'll do as Ecclecticmum suggests now and make decisions based on how it goes.  Thank you all for being so helpful!!

[OneStepAtATime]

OneStepAtATime - thank you, that's very helpful :)  I too have MM in electronic form (blue, green, and gold) so I could use those too if needed.  Since I have plenty of time I think I'll do as Ecclecticmum suggests now and make decisions based on how it goes.  Thank you all for being so helpful!!

Sounds great!  Best wishes to you and your family.

[Cheryl in CA]

Sounds great!  Best wishes to you and your family.

 

OneStepAtATime - Thank you :)

 

Ecclecticmum - I found the Open Office files on MOTL's Yahoo Group.  Thanks!