g1234 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm looking for some advice about whether to use Zumdahl Introductory Chemistry in eighth or eleventh grade. The kid: bright and motivated, at or above grade level generally, though not stunningly advanced or anything; good algebra skills. Not sure about college/career directions yet, though no particular sway toward or away from chemistry (or anything else). The goal: chemistry in 8th and once more before finishing high school, probably eleventh. The possibilities under consideration for 8th grade chemistry: either Zumdahl or something aimed at younger people, like ACS+supplements. Obviously, if we used Zumdahl for eighth, we'd need something else for 11th. I'd love any advice from those who have used either or both of these programs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 If you're considering Zumdahl for your student, I'm guessing that the ACS middle school materials will be too basic. A good middle ground between ACS and Zumdahl might be Conceptual Chemistry. That said, Zumdahl is an excellent text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Actually, I would use the new ACS high school materials or the GA PBS chem for 8th (both are free) and then hit Zumdahl the next time around, probably going right up to AP. The intro book is a freak of nature, and I don't see the point. If they can read that book, they can do AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Mr. Q's Advanced Chemistry is really engaging and pretty "meaty". It's also on sale starting Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I just ordered Zumdahl because I have the same question. My ds is capable of doing the math on Zumdahl, and it is a great text, but we are waiting until 11th. I agree with ohE's recs based on what I've seen, but we havent used the materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I'm looking for some advice about whether to use Zumdahl Introductory Chemistry in eighth or eleventh grade. The kid: bright and motivated, at or above grade level generally, though not stunningly advanced or anything; good algebra skills. Not sure about college/career directions yet, though no particular sway toward or away from chemistry (or anything else). The goal: chemistry in 8th and once more before finishing high school, probably eleventh. The possibilities under consideration for 8th grade chemistry: either Zumdahl or something aimed at younger people, like ACS+supplements. Obviously, if we used Zumdahl for eighth, we'd need something else for 11th. I'd love any advice from those who have used either or both of these programs! What does the rest of your sequence look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicentra Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 There are a number of different incarnations of Zumdahl, aren't there? I can't, off the top of my head, remember if "Introductory Chemistry" is the one that's meant to match up with Reg Chem or Honours Chem. The only Zumdahl I own is the one for AP Chem so I'm afraid I can't be of much help. Just wanted to jog the memory of other folks who are more familiar with all the Zumdahl texts and could give more info. :) In general, a student wanting to do the equivalent of a Reg Chem course would need Alg 1. A student wanting to do the equivalent of an Honours Chem course would need (probably) Alg 2 - although depending on the course, the student might be able to get by with Alg 1 and some supplementary math instruction on things like logs, natural logs, etc. when those skills come up for various Honours Chem topics. The student's level of math education may dictate, more than anything else, whether you choose to use a Zumdahl text in Grade 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Actually, I would use the new ACS high school materials or the GA PBS chem for 8th (both are free) and then hit Zumdahl the next time around, probably going right up to AP. The intro book is a freak of nature, and I don't see the point. If they can read that book, they can do AP. OhElizabeth--What does the bolded mean? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Actually, I would use the new ACS high school materials or the GA PBS chem for 8th (both are free) and then hit Zumdahl the next time around, probably going right up to AP. The intro book is a freak of nature, and I don't see the point. If they can read that book, they can do AP. OhElizabeth, I am going to respectfully disagree with some of your post. The new ACS high school materials could supplement an existing chemistry program, but they are nowhere a complete program. GA PBS Chem is a fine resource and I have no complaints there, but I can't figure out why you would call Zumdahl's Introductory Chemistry book "a freak of nature"? Unless a student was below grade level in reading, I wouldn't hesitate to use Zumdahl's Intro. book for most high school chemistry students. Yes, it's an introductory college-level book, but the reading-level is more accessible than many intro. texts and it is really well-written. I have had older students struggle with chemistry; for one of them it was a math issue, for the other, it was the basic high school text. Most high school texts provide two paragraphs of explanation and two examples and call it good. They are not aiming for understanding, just enough surface learning to slide by the proficiency-based testing that most high schools use now. The extra wordiness in Zumdahl's text is an aid, not a problem. The book is also not appropriate for AP Chemistry. My son can read that text and Chang's General Chemistry, but he is not always ready for the extra topics presented in Chang's Chemistry text, which is used for AP Chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g1234 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thank you all so very much! This has been a really helpful conversation. Swimmermom: the rest of the sequence, if I can be so bold as to predict (which is totally foolhardy, I know!) is 9th-physics, 10th-bio, 11th-chem, 12th-physics. Not, perhaps, the ideal sequence, but it's the one we seem to be on unless we change things around, which is always possible. OhElizabeth: I didn't know about GAPBS. It looks very interesting. I think we may well use some of its resources, no matter what we do, so thank you very much for telling me about it. And thanks Crimson Wife for mentioning Mr. Q. I need to look into that, too. I appreciate the discussions about what the various Zumdahls are like. I did a lot of research on this forum, and found that the more I thought I knew, the less I knew. There seems to be little consensus, except that his Chemistry is AP. So I sort of gave up and decided that Introductory would be good enough; I am also about to get my hands on his World of Chemistry, which is also hard to figure out from WTM posts of the past. Generally, though, people seem to like Zumdahl. Again, many thanks! I feel like I have a lot more to go on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thank you all so very much! This has been a really helpful conversation. Swimmermom: the rest of the sequence, if I can be so bold as to predict (which is totally foolhardy, I know!) is 9th-physics, 10th-bio, 11th-chem, 12th-physics. Not, perhaps, the ideal sequence, but it's the one we seem to be on unless we change things around, which is always possible. OhElizabeth: I didn't know about GAPBS. It looks very interesting. I think we may well use some of its resources, no matter what we do, so thank you very much for telling me about it. And thanks Crimson Wife for mentioning Mr. Q. I need to look into that, too. I appreciate the discussions about what the various Zumdahls are like. I did a lot of research on this forum, and found that the more I thought I knew, the less I knew. There seems to be little consensus, except that his Chemistry is AP. So I sort of gave up and decided that Introductory would be good enough; I am also about to get my hands on his World of Chemistry, which is also hard to figure out from WTM posts of the past. Generally, though, people seem to like Zumdahl. Again, many thanks! I feel like I have a lot more to go on now. Did you ever get your hands on a copy of World of Chemistry? If so, which edition. I've seen some excerpts from the most recent (3rd) edition and it seems as there is a great deal of hand holding which would be great for students who may not be accustomed to learning from a textbook. The beginning goes into the difference between reading an english or history text vs science. It also discusses how to approach the homework problems. I am trying to figure out is if this is true for the 2e book as well. Dd likes Zumdahl, but she really does have a hard time reading science and is not so confident with chemistry. Does ANYONE have a 2e copy that could help me out? Thanks! Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acorn Island Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have the 2nd Edition of World of Chemistry. It has a wave with a surf boarder on the cover. The beginning of the text does have sections on: Reading Chemistry, Writing Chemistry, and Testing in Chemistry. I really like the look of the book. I think it explains things in a clear and straightforward manner. Zumdahl's Introductory Chemistry has a much 'denser' writing style. I think World of Chemistry would be much better fit for someone who is new to chemistry or just a bit intimidated by it. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any other questions about this edition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dovrar Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 I have the 2nd Edition of World of Chemistry. It has a wave with a surf boarder on the cover. The beginning of the text does have sections on: Reading Chemistry, Writing Chemistry, and Testing in Chemistry. I really like the look of the book. I think it explains things in a clear and straightforward manner. Zumdahl's Introductory Chemistry has a much 'denser' writing style. I think World of Chemistry would be much better fit for someone who is new to chemistry or just a bit intimidated by it. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any other questions about this edition! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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