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I think we have to put Luke down :(


AimeeM
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If you remember my other posts, you know that we've been battling something that resembles perianal fistula (vet is pretty sure that's what it is) with our 3 year old GSD, Luke.

 

He appeared to stop having diarrhea in the house the week before we left for the holidays, when he first started the antibiotics and prescription food - we were optimistic. We were told that there's really nothing the vet can do for the diarrhea/stools in the house, as it's secondary to the bigger issue.

 

When he boarded over the holidays with his trainer, however, he had diarrhea several times in his crate. Then he did great for the first few days, once back at home - but now it's happening again. I've mopped it up three times today. It's out of control. We can't keep him outside - he scales the fence; beyond that, even if we put up an electric fence, he barks like crazy and the neighbors will complain (and the yard is so small that I'm not sure he would even have any free roam space before the warning beeps, if I remember from the electric fence my parents had in my teen years for their dogs); he doesn't settle even after being out for a while, because he simply isn't used to being outdoors alone and without his people.

I just don't know what else to do. I called his trainer asking her advice and she did state, in no uncertain terms, that he can't be rehomed in this condition <---- that hurt :( He's show aggressive tendencies towards other animals, but the trainer believes that is because he's in obvious pain, so she can't really train him while he's in such pain. He can't be rehomed animal aggressive OR while he's having the medical problems with seemingly no end in sight. I feel like we can't win.

 

We were considering taking him in for another opinion (with a different vet), but we can't keep him in the mean time - further testing, more trials of medications, etc will take quite some time and we can't have the pooping in the house. The vet he's already seen is considered the best of the best and focuses on GSDs, so I'm inclined to value her opinion.

 

I don't know what else to do. I feel lost and heartbroken. Somebody tell me that I'm not a horrible person.

 

If anyone does know of anything else we could do, that wouldn't take weeks or months, please tell me - sincerely. I know it sounds like I'm being impatient, but we simply can't keep him in the house like this. I need to make a decision and a call by tomorrow :(

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I'm so sorry. I am in a similar situation with my dog. She is old, sore, and has bladder leakage that isn't responding well to medication any longer. She is not happy for long outside and has to be crated inside, so she is let in/out constantly through the day. Then there is all the laundry for the blankets and towels we put in her crate, and the fact that she barks during he night to be let in/out too. I'm basically waiting for it to get bad enough that I can handle the guilt of having her put down. Luke's situation is much more of a health hazard, plus he sounds like he's already lost his quality of life if he's in a lot of pain. You've done what you can, but you are only human and no one can fault you for drawing the line at diarrhea all over your house.

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We have an older dog that had those type of issues because of the stress of any sort of change in environment.  We used pepto and wet his food.  Somehow the wet food helped him to be able to digest it and not cause upset to his system.  He had extensive tests the first time it happened and they couldn't find any cause. 

 

I am sorry you are having to deal with this.  Poor puppy!

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We have an older dog that had those type of issues because of the stress of any sort of change in environment.  We used pepto and wet his food.  Somehow the wet food helped him to be able to digest it and not cause upset to his system.  He had extensive tests the first time it happened and they couldn't find any cause. 

 

I am sorry you are having to deal with this.  Poor puppy!

 

We do wet his food (and he DID stop vomiting when we did so), but it's done nothing for the random diarrhea. The pepto would make things worse - apparently he's getting so backed up from the pain and inflammation in the bottom area that it eventually just comes out and he can't control it; the pepto would probably make worse the backing up portion.

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I'm sorry about your dog :( That has to be hard.

 

He is in pain. The trainer didn't even charge us her full cost after boarding because she wasn't able to get in much training (he was in obvious pain). She did call the vet and give him some tramadol and he seemed like he was in better spirits, but the pooping in the crate still happened and we've heard that pain meds can make dogs more randomly aggressive - not something we can risk with the children.

I'm so sorry. I am in a similar situation with my dog. She is old, sore, and has bladder leakage that isn't responding well to medication any longer. She is not happy for long outside and has to be crated inside, so she is let in/out constantly through the day. Then there is all the laundry for the blankets and towels we put in her crate, and the fact that she barks during he night to be let in/out too. I'm basically waiting for it to get bad enough that I can handle the guilt of having her put down. Luke's situation is much more of a health hazard, plus he sounds like he's already lost his quality of life if he's in a lot of pain. You've done what you can, but you are only human and no one can fault you for drawing the line at diarrhea all over your house.

 

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I think I answered your other post, that our lab has had great success with steroids and antibiotics for her fistula, but I will tell you when it was first diagnosed the prognosis was grim. They are just really painful and don't normally respond to treatment, we are very, very lucky. I researched a great deal and was very hopeless based on what I read. It's a really tough condition, and your dog is so young yet.

 

My personal opinion is that rehoming would be much worse than putting him down. At least this way you know he was loved his whole life, he was safe and cared for. It's unfortunate, but it may be the best option. If he won't get better (and I researched a great deal and most dogs do not, it is chronic for their whole lives) and his is so bad right now that he is having accidents daily and is aggressive...what can you do? He can't live that way, and neither can you. Euthanizing is painless, and gentle, and so, so many dogs in this world never had a moment of the love and care your Luke had. He is a lucky, loved dog, and as hard as it is, sometimes you have to make hard decisions for the best of the dog. If it's come to that, it just has. I know it's impossible not to feel guilty, but please don't be so hard on yourself.

 

To the poster about diapers- our dog has a tumor on her rear also, and we wanted to try surgery, but it could affect her sphincter. I asked why not just use diapers, and the vet said a dog that size (we have a lab, a GSD is bigger) and with a fistula would have chronic infections and it wouldn't work. Apparently small dogs can be diapered, but with large dogs it is much harder. she still has the tumor, (and dementia, and arthritis, darn dog is a mess!) and it hasn't grown much and she is hanging in there still.

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I am so sorry. What an awful place to be in. I don't think you would be terrible for putting him down. If he is in constant pain it might be the best thing for him. I think you are doing the right thing by getting a second opinion. A fresh set of eyes might just be what He needs. I can't tell you what to do but I am sorry you are in such a tough spot right now.  As someone who just lost a pet I am hurting for you. No judgement from me whatever you decide. :grouphug: :grouphug:

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I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand.  You are wanting to rehome your dog because he is sick? 

 

She is not rehoming him just because he's sick. She has been having some serious continual issues with her dog.  Here is her previous post. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/497582-for-those-who-read-my-post-about-doggy-potty-issues/

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/496983-help-before-i-do-something-ill-regret-dog-related/

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Euthanasia means a good death. And there are worse things than a good death. If he's got fecal incontinence from perianal fistulas, then I assume his fistulas involve the anal sphincter and I'm not completely sure that can ever be fixed.

 

I am so, so sorry. I snorgled a friend's German shepherd boy tonight and it made my heart hurt bad for my girlie (who made it through PF but died of cancer in 2006, before she was 10.) It's a very health-problematic breed right now, especially certain lines.

 

I hope you can get another vet opinion and come to peace with whatever decision you make.

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She is not rehoming him just because he's sick. She has been having some serious continual issues with her dog.  Here is her previous post. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/497582-for-those-who-read-my-post-about-doggy-potty-issues/

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/496983-help-before-i-do-something-ill-regret-dog-related/

 

Thank you for the back story.

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To the poster about diapers- our dog has a tumor on her rear also, and we wanted to try surgery, but it could affect her sphincter. I asked why not just use diapers, and the vet said a dog that size (we have a lab, a GSD is bigger) and with a fistula would have chronic infections and it wouldn't work. Apparently small dogs can be diapered, but with large dogs it is much harder. she still has the tumor, (and dementia, and arthritis, darn dog is a mess!) and it hasn't grown much and she is hanging in there still.

My dog is 80 lbs, I think. Much too big for diapers, not that she would leave them on. I think she is starting to get confused, too. She gets stuck between furniture and has to be helped out. She is almost 12, which is elderly for a dog her size.

 

I do have hardwood floors, and sometimes I just let her sleep on the floor and mop afterwards. Luckily she is not leaking as much as she used to, but it is coming back after temporarily stopping with meds, and she can't take a higher dose.

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A friend of mine lost a GSD to this. Well, they wound up having it put her to sleep after months and months of trying to treat her.

 

My only suggestion would be, if you want to buy time and get another opinion, to maybe get an enclosed kennel for your yard. The dog wouldn't be able to get out of it because it is covered, and it would be a place to keep him safely while seeing if someone had a fresh idea for treatment. He could be let out for exercise multiple times a day with someone in the yard to let him run for a bit.

 

This is just a thought.

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I'm sorry about your dog :( That has to be hard.

 

He is in pain. The trainer didn't even charge us her full cost after boarding because she wasn't able to get in much training (he was in obvious pain). She did call the vet and give him some tramadol and he seemed like he was in better spirits, but the pooping in the crate still happened and we've heard that pain meds can make dogs more randomly aggressive - not something we can risk with the children.

 

I'm not saying the bolded part couldn't possibly be true for some random dog somewhere in the world, but as a common thing?  No.  Absolutely, totally and completely false.

 

I don't want anyone reading this to be afraid to get a hurting dog on pain medication, so I feel that I can't emphasize enough how wrong that belief is.  The opposite is totally true -- uncontrolled pain can make a dog more aggressive.

 

As far as euthanasia -- There are worse things than a humane death.  You've tried about as much as anyone could be expected to.  You're not a horrible person.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

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I'm not saying the bolded part couldn't possibly be true for some random dog somewhere in the world, but as a common thing?  No.  Absolutely, totally and completely false.

 

I don't want anyone reading this to be afraid to get a hurting dog on pain medication, so I feel that I can't emphasize enough how wrong that belief is.  The opposite is totally true -- uncontrolled pain can make a dog more aggressive.

 

As far as euthanasia -- There are worse things than a humane death.  You've tried about as much as anyone could be expected to.  You're not a horrible person.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

The pain is only part of it :(

The more immediate concern is that we can't have him defecating in the house. Unfortunately, a second opinion, and all of the additional testing they would want to do, would take time and only *may* be successful - in the mean time, there is still one (huge) issue of him defecating in the house... with the children. Health hazard. While we have easily cleaned hardwoods, it's taking it's toll on everyone as he gives no warning and it's all over the house in no time, which means I have to hoard the children into another room and spend an hour scrubbing - every time (multiple times a day).

 

I feel like I'm not doing enough for him. I wish I had more time to look for other options. I feel like I'm irresponsible and should never own another dog.

 

I don't have a huge problem giving him pain meds. We've discontinued his training sessions for now, because she can't train him him when he's in pain (and it isn't fair to expect poor Luke to do well while he is in pain). He's NEVER been aggressive with our children, so I have no worries about even pain meds making him so.

 

I wish the pain were his only issue. The trainer said that when she gave him the tramadol he did seem much more comfortable and relaxed.

 

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I'm so sorry you are going through this!

 

Luke is in obvious pain and distress-- he is not acting out of spite or poor discipline.

You have done your best to help him-- there is no place (kennel, crate, back yard or re-home) where he would not be in pain.

 

I lost 2 GSD's in a row to health issues (one congenetial and one rare agressive cancer) before they turned 3.  It was heartbreaking.  I now have another GSD-- I LOVE the breed.

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I was with my beloved 14 year old golden when he was put to sleep, and it was difficult for me but not for him.  I was a basket case; he just thought it was another trip to the vet.  He didn't know what was going on and wasn't scared or anxious at all.  The kids said their good-byes at home, and I took him by myself.  The vet was very understanding; they had blankets ready on the floor for him when we got there and let me stay with him the entire time.  I was glad I was with him, so please make sure you or someone who else who loves him is there at the end.  It is difficult, but you will be glad he was not alone.  I was leaving to go out of town right after the deed and stopped by Starbucks for an iced tea for the road.  

 

Just remember that Luke will not know what is happening.  I know people say dogs sense things, but mine was fine, not the least bit upset even though I was.

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I was with my beloved 14 year old golden when he was put to sleep, and it was difficult for me but not for him.  I was a basket case; he just thought it was another trip to the vet.  He didn't know what was going on and wasn't scared or anxious at all.  The kids said their good-byes at home, and I took him by myself.  The vet was very understanding; they had blankets ready on the floor for him when we got there and let me stay with him the entire time.  I was glad I was with him, so please make sure you or someone who else who loves him is there at the end.  It is difficult, but you will be glad he was not alone.  I was leaving to go out of town right after the deed and stopped by Starbucks for an iced tea for the road.  

 

Just remember that Luke will not know what is happening.  I know people say dogs sense things, but mine was fine, not the least bit upset even though I was.

 

Do you think they'll give me something (sedative-wise) to give him first? He will be anxious... he doesn't like the vet. I don't want him to feel scared.

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Do you think they'll give me something (sedative-wise) to give him first? He will be anxious... he doesn't like the vet. I don't want him to feel scared.

Yes! And figure out how you want to handle the body in advance--they have options or will give the body to you to bury at home. We let them take care of it.

 

There also are vets that will do it at home. We were adamant about not wanting it done at home, but we thought for a bit that we would have to. Our vet gave us names.

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I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand.  You are wanting to rehome your dog because he is sick? 

 

Not exactly. I was, for a time, holding out a ridiculous hope that perhaps we could find him a home with a nice older couple, with no children, for whom the defecating wouldn't be a big issue... perhaps they would live on some nice huge fenced in property and nice heated dog house, with no close neighbors to complain of barking or who own cats (he hates cats), and... well, that he could live there. He would love to play tennis ball fetch on a nice big yard and the pooping wouldn't be a big deal outside...

But the trainer agrees that re-homing him is a bad idea - not only is he sick and in pain, but he's very much *our* dog and his loyalty has never wavered. I can't see him acclimating, especially in this condition, to another owner/family unit. He would be so stressed.

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Yes! And figure out how you want to handle the body in advance--they have options or will give the body to you to bury at home. We let them take care of it.

 

There also are vets that will do it at home. We were adamant about not wanting it done at home, but we thought for a bit that we would have to. Our vet gave us names.

 

I didn't know that they could do it at home. That might be nice.

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I just called the vet. She's going to call me back. I don't know if I can do this.

I've had dogs put down before... but all were elderly (12+ years old) and had lived a good, long life. Luke hasn't had that.

This sucks monkey balls.

Our daughter is going to hate us. I'm going to hate us. He's such a good dog at home. 

Doesn't he looks like the best dog in the world? He sleeps outside the boys' bedroom door at night. A year ago he jumped on dd's bed to sleep with her and broke it :p He follows our youngest around to make sure he doesn't get into trouble. He lets the baby climb all over him and never gets irritated - he just likes him all over when he does it. His favorite game is "find the ball" - he's so smart and finds it so quickly, and it's hilarious to watch him root through the house to find his missing tennis ball.

 

In the second pic you can see that he isn't feeling well. The first pic is over a year ago; the second is more recent. He looks sad in the second.

67339_443224036823_4604890_n.jpg

 

993380_10151649821791824_1544291550_n.jp

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I feel like I'm not doing enough for him. I wish I had more time to look for other options. I feel like I'm irresponsible and should never own another dog.

 

 

 

:grouphug:

 

Honey girl, you are not a horrible person, and you are not irresponsible. You're doing all that can be done. Sometimes, loving responsible owners have to do hard things for the sake of all involved.

 

He's not happy. He's in pain. He cannot be fixed. None of it is your fault.

 

:grouphug:

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:grouphug:

 

Honey girl, you are not a horrible person, and you are not irresponsible. You're doing all that can be done. Sometimes, loving responsible owners have to do hard things for the sake of all involved.

 

He's not happy. He's in pain. He cannot be fixed. None of it is your fault.

 

:grouphug:

Thank you for that. I can't even look at him right now. I'm just sitting here, waiting for the phone to ring that the vet is calling back. He's guarding the baby in his bouncer right now in the other room. Doing exactly what he loves to do - and I'm not even going to make him get off the couch. He can lay on it for as long as he wants.

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If anyone does know of anything else we could do, that wouldn't take weeks or months, please tell me - sincerely. I know it sounds like I'm being impatient, but we simply can't keep him in the house like this. I need to make a decision and a call by tomorrow :(

 

Oh I am so sorry to hear this! I had to put down our three year old last year. It was heart wrenching, but like you, we had run out of options. It can still make me teary, it was such a hard thing to do. But sometimes there really is no other option. It's loving for you to take care of this compassionately, which is what will happen when you take him to the vet. The vet will let you know what will happen, what to expect. I know it's hard, but it's not anything to feel guilty about. It's part of being a responsible friend to a pet.

 

*hugs*

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I don't think you are a horrible person. I think it's a horrible situation.

 

Could you call for a second opinion and tell the new vet that you really see no other options but wanted to give it one more try. They might board him while they are looking at him and testing him.

(I am only giving this option because you asked for other options, not because I think it is something you should do.)

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I don't think you are a horrible person. I think it's a horrible situation.

 

Could you call for a second opinion and tell the new vet that you really see no other options but wanted to give it one more try. They might board him while they are looking at him and testing him.

(I am only giving this option because you asked for other options, not because I think it is something you should do.)

 

We're running out of places that *will* board him, because of the pooping issues and the dog aggression. The vet we would consult for a second opinion doesn't board, nor does the vet he's currently seeing.

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If the dog is in pain and has a very low quality of life due to being constantly penned or in stress by being left outside while hurting, then it is your responsibility to put him out of his misery.  For an animal it's the humane thing to do.  Your feelings of guilt should not enter into the equation.  That is being selfish.

 

I don't say this to be harsh, mean, or insensitive, but to get your focus back to the reality of the situation and put things into proper perspective.  Your dog is suffering physically and mentally.  Be kind and set him free.

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I have no intention not following through, although I know it may have come across that way. I know we need to do this.

To clarify, he is never penned (he was penned at night when boarding with his trainer over the holidays - never at home), and is never left outside for more than an hour. Putting him outside was a last ditch attempt to buy us time. Had we been able to keep him secure, warm, calm, and relatively quiet in the backyard for a few months, regardless of his stress level, it would have bought us the time needed to secure another opinion and other treatment options/attempts. Keeping him secure and calm outside was unsuccessful, so we stopped (and he learned quickly how to scale the fence - smart dog).

If the dog is in pain and has a very low quality of life due to being constantly penned or in stress by being left outside while hurting, then it is your responsibility to put him out of his misery.  For an animal it's the humane thing to do.  Your feelings of guilt should not enter into the equation.  That is being selfish.

 

I don't say this to be harsh, mean, or insensitive, but to get your focus back to the reality of the situation and put things into proper perspective.  Your dog is suffering physically and mentally.  Be kind and set him free.

 

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Do you think they'll give me something (sedative-wise) to give him first? He will be anxious... he doesn't like the vet. I don't want him to feel scared.

Yes they can if you call and ask.  Many dogs have vet anxiety and most vets are very accomodating when it comes to the decision to euthanize... 

 

You are a good pet parent to think of all your options.  To me having a pet is about their quality of life, not the quantity.  Our pets are not designed to outlive us, but we are here to make sure they get what they need and leave this life with dignity if needs be.

 

I've had to do this a number of times in the last few years and while it's not enjoyable, I don't regret any of the choices I had to make for my pets to end their suffering from something that I could not fix.

 

Hugs to you!

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Well, I'm not sure whether to be cautiously happy or mildly frustrated.

 

I made the appointment to have Luke put down. His vet agreed that, since we have young children and Luke is still so young, euthanizing him is an option she agrees with.

However, she did say that she didn't think one more try couldn't hurt. One round of the most aggressive treatment they have (a more aggressive antibiotic combo than previously tried, with prednisone, and I'll make his food of one carb/one protein), for a bit over 2 weeks.

My husband wants to give it a try. He wants to feel like we've done everything we can... and I agree with him (cautiously). It was hard to make the appointment, so I'm a bit frustrated that DH didn't say this before I did so, but I'm happy to give it one more try. If he doesn't respond to it, the vet said it's likely going to be life long and, at that point, it's just a matter of making him live his life in pain.

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I hope it will work! I was so disheartened when our dog was diagnosed. It's not terribly common in labs (but is in GSD) and on top of the butt tumor- it seemed hopeless. But that was 3 years ago and it seems the arthritis and dementia will be what finally gets our girl. Our experience has been atypical though, normally the most effective medicine is a very expensive antibiotic for skin conditions (I cannot remember the name, but the price tag was in the hundreds per month) and even that is not effective for many. It was really disheartening to read about this condition. our lab goes through the clavamox/prednisone cycle about twice a year since being diagnosed, and every time the vet thinks it won't work..,but it does! At least for a while it goes away.

 

Did the vet give pain Meds? Our dog has been on rymadyl (for arthritis) since 7, and Tramadol daily since 10, she is 12, nearly 13. She's wacky when on the prednisone, but the pain Meds have never done anything but make her feel better. Tramadol is cheap, too, and very effective.

 

Good luck to you and Luke, and whatever happens- he had a loved, good life. Please don't beat yourself up.

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