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How much is too much? (six year old) Opinions, please.


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I have a couple of problems:

 

1.  I tend to ask too much of my smart first grader.  

 

2.  She's easily distracted and hmmm... I really don't want to use the word lazy... she complains a lot - even when I switch/change things up. 

 

In the past couple of months I've been having a hard time finding balance in regards to workload.  The beginning of the year was terrific, but now she's started complaining again.

 

I'd like to give her a list of the work she needs to accomplish for the day.  It would just be a list to keep us on track; so she can see what we have to do.  Something that would help me say, "This is what we need to get done today. We're not finished until this list is done."  However, I'm worried about asking too much or too little of her.  Because of the two problems mentioned above, I feel like we need an outsider's opinion.  She'll want to do too little, and I'll want to pile it on.

 

Here are the curriculum/subjects we have to cover: 

 

FLL

WWE 

Math Mammoth

practicing math facts

Explode the Code

Reading (she's an incredibly good reader)

Spanish (I'd like to spend 20 minutes/day) 

History (mostly SotW 1)

Science (mostly interest-led)

EM's Daily Geography Practice

Art/Music

 

This is what I would normally ask of her in one day:  one FLL lesson OR two pages EtC, one WWE lesson, 1-2 pages MM, some math facts practice, reading for 30 minutes (with me or by herself, her choice), 20 minutes Spanish, either history/geography/science, some type of art or music (e.g. practice piano or an art project).

 

 

How many of these would you try to do in one day?  And for how long?  I know it's different with each child/family, but if I could get just a few opinions/suggestions I'd be so happy.   :)

 

 

 

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I would look for a concrete system to help her see how much there is to do.  For awhile, we had a system with little task cards that got removed from the board over the course of the day.  We've also done lists and checklists.

 

I don't think you're asking too much exactly, but I see a good 3 hours of school there, most of it sit down work, which can be a lot for some kids.  I think breaks and how you change things up are key.  We usually did not do quite that much at that age.  When we did, it usually included learning games and projects.  How about, for example, changing the math drill to a math card game.

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This is just my opinion, but I think:

 

- you could eliminate EtC.  If she is a great reader, just let her read to you and get rid of the workbook.  It would take one thing off the list. 

 

After that, I think making her a checklist sounds like a great idea, so that she can visually see where the end of the day is.  Also, you could make some incentives for non-whining, like 20 minutes on an educational website or something if all work is done without a complaint. 

 

My 6yo is enjoying Xtramath.org for fact review, and I have told him when he reaches a score of X, he can add in Timez Attack as well, which he is excited about because it looks like a "real" video game.

 

All that to say that I don't think you are asking too much, but I think giving her a concrete way to know what is expected is a great idea!

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Well, we have two fairly smart first graders here (and a smart third grader, too), all girls, so I'll give it a go...

 

You said you want an outside opinion, and my first thought in reading your post was that your six year old shouldn't be running the show. New School Motto = "No Complaining Allowed." ;) I have girls, I do get it. They like to express themselves, LOL, all day, in every way! However, IMO, you need to nip that bad weed (complaining) in the bud. She's six years old, why is she complaining about anything? My three don't complain... ever. ;) When they do I simply say, "This is your work. It's this or the bus." End of topic. LOL.

 

Secondly, about the lists: We have a list of work on most school days. Nothing elaborate, just a handwritten or typed list of all the assignments that I want out of my planner and onto that day's work list. We almost never complete everything on the list. :) And that's okay. Here's what our lists look like (sample from today):

 

Child's Name

Date

 

Morning Routine
•    Wake up
•    Morning List (make bed, neaten room, brush teeth, get dressed, do hair, etc.)
•    Breakfast
•    Bumblebee Chore: TRO & LRO (trash round-up & laundry round-up) -- each girl has different chores for three weeks, then they rotate

Independent Seat Work
•    Kumon Simple Multiplication
•    Kumon Subtraction
•    Math Fact Practice (computer)—10 minutes
•    Logic—Play Blokus or Checkers with Daddy
•    JBQ—Practice Questions 1—60
•    Reading—your choice from: Bible, Literature, History, Science, Nature, Sports (30 minutes)

Guided Seat Work
•   
Horizons Math
•    Guided Reading—CLNR or McGuffey (your choice)
•    Spelling
•    Writing
•    Story Time Treasures

 

Group Work
•    Bible Reading—Acts 27 &  28
•    Egermeier—pages 278—284
•    Literature—My Book House (p. 82)
•    Science—Bookshelf Read Aloud (Oh Say & Storms)
•    Science—Watch hurricanes and tornadoes on Youtube
•    Science—Put label on Science Pocket
•    History—Bookshelf Read Aloud (Lewis & Clark)
•    History—Watch Liberty’s Kids!
 
Each girl gets her own list for the day. They enjoy checking off each item, especially the independent work (which doesn't depend on my readiness). But, like I said, we almost never do all the items on the list. No worries, the work will roll over to the following day or week. It will get done. We plod, and have found this to be quite effective.

 

The school work for each day is done when I say it is done. To some extent, this depends on the list, but not entirely. With my 3rd grader, we push more than we used to, and we have both strengthened our "get it done" muscles. ;) With my twin 1st graders, there comes a point when it's time for them to go play -- but usually I am done with them before they want to be done!

 

For your daily expectations, you have:

 

Reading

Writing

Math (lesson)

Math (fact practice)

Book Shelf

Spanish

HistGeoSci

ArtMusic

 

Personally, I think this is very reasonable. It seems well-thought out and orderly. FLL or ETC should take about 15 minutes (tops?), WWE is about 15 minutes, Math (30?), fact practice (15?), Spanish (20?) -- with all that, you're just over an hour, then Book Shelf (30 minutes) and some HGS and/or AM -- that's about 2-3 hours, right? IMO, that is not an unreasonable expectation for a 1st grader, but opinions vary widely on this. ;) But I'm not in the "let them play all day, every day" camp. I think that 2-3 hours of structured, patient, consistent, explicit instruction and learning are what is needed in 1st grade. Your line-up looks great to me!

 

I would eliminate the complaining on the one hand, and pay less attention to my list than to my child on the other. Hopefully, that is a way to achieve the balance you seek. HTH.

 

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I was going to ask you about EtC too.  Does she like it?  Is she learning new information in it?  It's a very steady, slow, incremental program - which is actually good, BUT if she's great at reading it might be behind where she is (perhaps skip forward a couple of books?).

 

For the math, what is the fact practice like?  There are free online drilling programs that could mix it up a bit. 

 

While the amount of work doesn't seem like that much (or like it should take very long), sitting there doing it with a 1st grader it might be longer than it seems (maybe you should go through and time yourself on each thing and see what amount of time it is actually taking you).

 

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I was going to say sumdog.com is free and the parent can adjust the level for what you want them to practice. I rotate that in the math practice. Some days I want him to practice a page of written math. Some days I want him to practice writing down the problems. Some days I let him do sumdog to make his math facts automatic. I also let him read for an hour in bed at bedtime. I sit in there reading something of my own. I'm there for when he says "what's this word?". It also makes him sleepy so there's less goofing off.

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This is what I would normally ask of her in one day:  one FLL lesson OR two pages EtC, one WWE lesson, 1-2 pages MM, some math facts practice, reading for 30 minutes (with me or by herself, her choice), 20 minutes Spanish, either history/geography/science, some type of art or music (e.g. practice piano or an art project).

 

 

How many of these would you try to do in one day?  And for how long?  I know it's different with each child/family, but if I could get just a few opinions/suggestions I'd be so happy.   :)

 

 

 

 

If it were me and my ds, i would have to cut a bit, but he's not advanced.

 

So, i would also check out cutting ETC.

 

As for math facts practice, ds still doesn't have them memorized but can mental math his way through them fairly easily and i actually think this is better for us (for now) so i would check on whether the daily math facts is needed. I mean, his first grade math sheets already had quite a bit of drill and that was enough for me.  Last thing, I am always amazed at people who do fit in art/music daily. Wow!  I think it clearly has benefits, but i would probably move that to 2x/week. 

 

The biggest change i had to make with ds was about breaks and schedule though. We do most of our school in the afternoon so he lots of time to play in the morning. Also, we take breaks...lots of them. He gets a 2-3 minute run around and make some touchdowns with the football in the living room after every page and a 10 min break between subjects.  Part of my getting him on board with school was that i made him "in charge of having fun." He gets to make sure school is fun, I get to be in charge of what gets done. Thus, football touchdowns ;)

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I have a couple of problems:

 

1.  I tend to ask too much of my smart first grader.  

 

2.  She's easily distracted and hmmm... I really don't want to use the word lazy... she complains a lot - even when I switch/change things up. 

 

In the past couple of months I've been having a hard time finding balance in regards to workload.  The beginning of the year was terrific, but now she's started complaining again.

 

I'd like to give her a list of the work she needs to accomplish for the day.  It would just be a list to keep us on track; so she can see what we have to do.  Something that would help me say, "This is what we need to get done today. We're not finished until this list is done."  However, I'm worried about asking too much or too little of her.  Because of the two problems mentioned above, I feel like we need an outsider's opinion.  She'll want to do too little, and I'll want to pile it on.

 

Here are the curriculum/subjects we have to cover: 

 

FLL

WWE 

Math Mammoth

practicing math facts

Explode the Code

Reading (she's an incredibly good reader)

Spanish (I'd like to spend 20 minutes/day) 

History (mostly SotW 1)

Science (mostly interest-led)

EM's Daily Geography Practice

Art/Music

 

This is what I would normally ask of her in one day:  one FLL lesson OR two pages EtC, one WWE lesson, 1-2 pages MM, some math facts practice, reading for 30 minutes (with me or by herself, her choice), 20 minutes Spanish, either history/geography/science, some type of art or music (e.g. practice piano or an art project).

 

 

How many of these would you try to do in one day?  And for how long?  I know it's different with each child/family, but if I could get just a few opinions/suggestions I'd be so happy.   :)

 

I'm glad you aren't going to use the word "lazy" because then I'd have to take issue with you. :-)

 

*I* would not give a 6yo a list of academic work that I think must be accomplished. I might make the list for myself, to keep *me* on track, but I would expect to be working side by side with a 6yo.

 

Neither of my dc would have been up to both FLL and WWE in one day. In fact, neither would have done WWE when they were only 6. Ok, probably not FLL, either, nor reading for 30 minutes.

 

If your dd is an "incredibly good reader," why does she still need to do ETC? Why can't you drop that, and just do FLL? And do you have to *require* her to read for 30 minutes? Why can't you do FLL, WWE, SOTW, and some science with her, and then let her amuse herself?

 

*I* would probably not have done both SOTW *and* Daily Geography Practice with a 6yo.

 

So I guess I'm saying that what you're thinking needs to be done with a 6yo seems like a whole lot to *me.*

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I have a first grader with a similar temperament and a nearly identical curriculum--- so just a fast thx to the OP and to all the rest of y'all; this has been a very helpful and reassuring thread!

 

FWIW-- we've simultaneously taken a number of approaches: first, we are working on nipping the complaining in the bud (it's ok to not like something, but it's NOT ok to whine or complain about it and necessary consequences will assuredly follow; respect is a biggie in our home). Then, we've adjusted his schedule and workload to accommodate where he is developmentally and what his own rhythms are like (for example, I'd love to do seat work immediately in the morning but I've learned he really needs chore time (for physical activity) plus an hour of imaginative and active free play before he can handle seat work.) Still don't have all the kinks worked out but these two approaches are definitely bringing positive results for us. Oh, and he really responds beautifully to genuine praise for his accomplishments. He's incredibly bright and creative, but unlike DD he's also very insecure.

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Six year old children are not lazy. They might not embrace all of the school work parents sometimes wish them to do, but they are excited about learning about the world.

 

You really want to make sure she doesn't start seeing learning as a chore. (Studying *is* hard work, but you have years to go/to get to that.) Children need to move and do and explore.  Everything is new to a 6 year old. Be careful not to get so wrapped up in paperwork that you place the young child's natural desire to learn aside. Have you read The Hundred Languages of Children?  You might enjoy it.

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Do you know what has really improved our attitude about school work? Starting earlier in the day. We had a change in our schedule earlier in the year, which found us all up about an hour earlier than we were. It really made a huge improvement in their attitudes as we got started in work, plus work seemed to take much less time. Plus, there are several days in the week where we're done with "work" before lunch, which is a HUGE point of excitement for the kids. 
 

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I would encourage less seat work for her age. I would do most things orally cuddled up on the couch. I think educational games and pretend play would go along way for most of the week with only 1 book lesson in any subject per day each week. Something like: Math Monday, Science Tuesday, Writing Wednesday, History Thursday, Free Choice Friday. As she gets older, add another lesson per day. By 3rd grade you could probably do 3 lessons per day, 4th grade would have 4/day, and by 5th grade she would be ready for 5 lessons/day. I would think it would be tedious to try and do more when they are still young.

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I currently have a smart first grader who reads well, and she is doing approximately the same workload as you listed. It is not hard for her, but sometimes she complains because she would rather read her fairy books all day. IMO it is good for these types of kids to be a little bit challenged and to continue learning since they are such bright little sponges.

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How much of the writing in these subjects is she doing herself, and could it be too much? Looking at your list, I see a lot of writing heavy things. We do some of them too, but I do the writing for DD due to developmental delay, do she only has to do the thinking part.

 

The only other thing that stood out to me is that maybe she could read on her own some other time during the day, if she is self motivated to read. That would be one less thing on her list.

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*I* would not give a 6yo a list of academic work that I think must be accomplished. I might make the list for myself, to keep *me* on track, but I would expect to be working side by side with a 6yo.

 

This is how I would also personally prefer to approach things.  Because I have general goals, but I'm the adult and know when to reasonably adjust them for reality and rabbit holes.  Unfortunately, what I've seen with one of my boys is that when he doesn't know what's coming next or "how much" then it's extremely stressful.  Every single page of math seems like it might be followed by a million more because it's all up in the air.  So I think it can be helpful to some kids to see that sit down school time has a beginning and an end and they can help bring about the end by focusing and finishing.

 

Seconding what everyone is saying about how six year olds are not lazy.  They have their own agendas is all. ;)

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I definitely recommend having a list! This isn't a list for her to go off to do, but one for both of you to look at and know what comes next. That has been very beneficial for both my oldest kids starting in 1st grade. They need to know how much there is to do and how much is left.

 

I agree with dropping ETC if she's a very good reader. My oldest was a very good reader in 1st grade. For "reading", I had him read from the library book basket for about 20 minutes while I put his youngest brother down for a nap (that was about how long it took me to read a book and nurse toddler to sleep). That book basket contained history and science readers, fun books, good quality picture books at a higher reading level, etc. I didn't have him read to me or any of that. I just let him read. He's an avid reader now and always has his nose in a book. :)

 

Your list doesn't look that bad overall, and some of those things don't take very long (like FLL is about 5 minutes and WWE is maybe 15-20?). DS1 used much of the same curricula at that age, except he didn't do ETC (we did do AAS at that point, but really spelling can wait until 2nd grade... and grammar was kind of useless at that age also). We didn't do geography separately from history. We just used the mapwork in SOTW. That was enough geography. That kid knows more geography today (4th grade) than I do. :tongue_smilie: If you're using Math Mammoth, there is a LOT of fact practice built in. Are you sure you need to practice them separately? And are you doing all the problems in MM or just picking and choosing? My son usually did about half the problems, unless it was a topic he struggled with (I don't think we ran into that until multi-digit multiplication in the grade 4 book, and then all the problems was just barely enough!). Maria Miller says you can assign less problems in the drill sections. Just make sure you don't skip word problems. That's where a lot of the review is.

 

My current 1st grader is doing a lot less, but he's also not reading yet, so his 1st grade has looked very different from that of my oldest. He has math, phonics, reading, history, and science. And the math is actually two programs - we do CLE in the morning and Beast Academy in the afternoon (he loves BA). I cut out grammar and writing for him, since he's still learning to read. My youngest is reading a bit better than my 1st grader, so when he's in 1st grade, he likely won't have phonics/reading as subjects, but will have WWE most likely. I doubt I'll bother with grammar, unless he's tagging along in MCT with my middle kid (who would be 3rd grade then and totally ready for MCT Island). With my oldest, there was really no benefit to scooting ahead in grammar, since his writing ability wasn't advanced (everything else was). I found 1st and 2nd grade grammar programs to not be worth doing. Real grammar seems to start in 3rd grade in most programs that I've seen, and they all start at the very beginning each year.

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FLL

WWE

Math Mammoth

practicing math facts

Explode the Code

Reading (she's an incredibly good reader)

Spanish (I'd like to spend 20 minutes/day)

History (mostly SotW 1)

Science (mostly interest-led)

EM's Daily Geography Practice

Art/Music

 

This is what I would normally ask of her in one day: one FLL lesson OR two pages EtC, one WWE lesson, 1-2 pages MM, some math facts practice, reading for 30 minutes (with me or by herself, her choice), 20 minutes Spanish, either history/geography/science, some type of art or music (e.g. practice piano or an art project).

 

 

How many of these would you try to do in one day? And for how long? I know it's different with each child/family, but if I could get just a few opinions/suggestions I'd be so happy. :)

We use almost all the same stuff. The differences are our math practice is playing on the iPad games like math blaster, mystery math, etc... which she really enjoys, we use Holling C. Holling books and Google maps for geography once a week, and we haven't started Spanish yet. We do 2 hours in the morning, take an hour for lunch and recess, then do another 1-1.5 hrs in the afternoon. Then she has chores and free time. We have good and bad days with this schedule. Usually, the fight is over MM. It's not that she can't do it, but that she lacks confidence in her math abilities when presented with new things,

 

The only suggestions I could make are the math practice being a game so it doesn't seem so much like school work, and if you are not already putting breaks in the day then you may want to add at least one good sized one.

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We use a lot of the same curriculum. If she is reading well I would drop Explode the Code. We also do mandatory reading. I think it is important for my girls. We do FLL three times a week and WWE twice a week. I do one narration and copy one sentence each of the WWE days. Sometimes for math mammoth if the child understands the concept they only do half the problems.

My oldest complains about lots of things. We are working on her attitude and appropriate reactions. We do use a handwritten daily schedule that she enjoys checking off as we finish.

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Wow, I didn't think I'd get so many replies!  Thank you all, whether you agreed with me or not!  

 

I'll try to answer some questions/reply to some of the comments:

 

I agree six year olds are not lazy.  It was still early in the morning, and I couldn't come up with a more appropriate word.

 

Explode the Code is kind of like her spelling.  She's on 4, but she could probably be on a higher level.  She actually really likes it and will sometimes do up to four pages in a sitting.  This is what we skip when we're busy.

 

I should probably find something more fun for the math facts practice, I agree.  I'll try the sumdog.

 

Yes, the list was so that she could have a concrete visual.  I wanted it to be something that for sure (or 90% of the days) it would be an amount of work that she could finish.  I think she needs that consistent visual.  When she's just waiting for me to say "ok I think you've done enough work for today," we're doing a lot of arguing.

 

Most of her work is completed with me at her side and talking to her about it.  MM is done verbally 50% of the time, and I only have her do about half of the problems on each page.  She LOVES word problems.  WWE is verbal about 25% of the time.  FLL is completely verbal.  SotW: we read the chapter together, the next day she writes 1-2 sentences and draws a picture about it, the next day is map work.  

 

What I count as art/music:  ballet class, choir, piano practice, art projects, drawing practice, reading about famous musicians/artists.  So it's easy to do it five days a week.

 

"required" Reading:  It's her favorite!  During school time we're work on a specific book from a book list I've made. She's usually really into it.  After/before school she's into the fairy books or Calvin & Hobbes (pretty much exclusively :) ).

 

She also likes the geography most of the time.  She likes different things on different days.  It all depends on her mood.  One thing she never likes is the math facts practice, so I definitely think I need to change that.

 

I am going to start giving consequences for too much complaining, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't expecting too much first.

 

I like the idea of starting earlier.  We've done that before, knocking out the oral stuff during breakfast.  She doesn't so much see it as work that way.  The problem I have is that I end up doing too much like that.  But if we have the list...

 

She doesn't usually write for Spanish.  Occasionally, she'll have some copywork, but that's rare.  She enjoys doing Duolingo with me (I type), reading books with me, and watching Salsa episodes.

 

Thanks again for all the replies.  I'll be giving them all some thought.  Sorry it took me all day to reply!  

 

 

 

 

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Sounds good! What are you doing for math fact practice? It shouldn't take very long. A few minutes a day really adds up. My first grader has fact practice built in to his curriculum (CLE), so he has a 2-minute speed drill and then we go over flash cards quickly (they are grouped and placed with a letter title, and you pull out two "letters" to run through each day). So fact practice probably takes 5 minutes total. If you're doing more than that, you probably don't need to work quite so long. :) MM expects the addition/subtraction facts to be memorized by the end of grade 2. I didn't even start practicing facts until my son was doing grade 2 math, and he's got them down cold (much to my surprise). So whatever you do for practice, keep it short and quick. 5 minutes of practice each day is plenty for a 1st grader, IMO.

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Update:

 

This was the list for today.  We worked off and on starting at 8:30, taking lots of breaks, and finished it just before lunch.  She got to choose the order.  It was the perfect amount, I think.

 

15 minutes on Sumdog

one page of MM 1

WWE 1 copywork

FLL 2  lesson 45

learn one vocab word

read three pages from What Your 1st Grader Needs to Know world history section

one thinking skills worksheet

read Superfudge for 20 minutes

one Duolingo lesson

 

 

 

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