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What do you do, when talking "end of life", when there's nobody responsible enough to take your children?


AimeeM
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I love the idea of an academic adviser. It sounds like you could make it work!

 

Do you think it would be a waste of their money, though? It would be covered, as would their living expenses, but there likely wouldn't be much left for their adult years. I worry about that. Tuition and other expenses (clothing, etc) would eat the life insurance. They would still have the survivor benefits, I believe, which could be set aside, but still...

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Anyone else find it a little reasuring that they themselves are the best option they can find for raising their own children?

 

 

I'm another who curbs some behaviour* to keep alive while dd is a minor.

 

*(Nothing too exciting, just stuff like fixing a roof by myself etc)

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I know. It makes me feel embarrassed that my extended family seems so... broken. My husband has a lovely Italian family, but as his father is so much older, and my husband is quite a bit my senior, all of his relatives are much older/elderly (well, the ones we could consider).

Aimee, we have a set of friends in a similar situation and her father, a wonderful

man but too aged to consider as a full time primary caregiver, is still named as

guardian. They chose to maintain enough life insurance that he will be able to

have a nanny, a housekeeper, and if necessary a driver. This way he is not alone

raising the children and has plenty of health but he is at the helm making the

important decisions. Their will specifies that the money is to he used for this

purpose. We also specified that a nanny and household help was a legitimate use

of estate money when my sister was named guardian since she would have been a

single parenting, career woman of four without warning.

 

So that might he an option for you.

 

Faith

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I only have one friend - she is my very best friend, but her situation is bad (bad marriage, older child who has serious behaviour problem, low income). 

Now, my husband has a best friend (they've been best friends for over 20 years). Him and his wife are lovely; they are also financially stable, so there would be no worry of monetary gain. The problem is that they have one child - and appear to be more than content with that. We have three children. That would be a lot to take on. It isn't a possibility that i hadn't really considered before, though, so I'll talk to my husband about it.

 

Unfortunately, almost everybody in my family falls into the "under no circumstances allow my children to live with these people" category. I do have more *removed* relatives that seem trustworthy and wonderful, but it's awfully awkward to ask that of someone you barely know. Lol.

 

Choose the people that you know would love your children. Those are the people who will figure out how to make it work.

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We redid everything last year, and chose homeschooling relatives.  Their style of homeschooling is different than ours, but they are solid parents and would fulfill our wishes.  The alternate are also solid with two grown kids who have turned out well and several still at home, and they would do what they could, although I suspect the homeschooling would be more hands-off but still OK because they're mostly self-directed now anyway.  Every year I put an updated list of curriculum for future years with our documents.  Mine are in high school, so it doesn't change that much.  We agreed that when the oldest is 21 or so and is responsible, we'll change it to put them in charge.

 

We also stepped the distributions per my CPA's advice.  So they don't get it all at 21.  She recommended that so that they hopefully learn if they handle the first one poorly.

 

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Because we have had a quickly changing situation with littles and grown/nearly grown children, we have appointed a guardian, but have discussed with her possible arrangements.  As a single 50 something woman, we have told her that this does not mean she has to parent them, but she does need decide if a sibling is mature enough to parent, or if a family friend would be a more appropriate family for them when something happened.  10 years ago with 4 young children and a difficult teen, we knew which friend could parent them well.  At this stage, the guardian would likely take them on.  In 5 years, the situation would be different again.  In our province, homestudies etc would need to be done on any of these people before adoption, so this would not affect the decisions.

 

I agree with having different people in charge of children and finances.  Another thing I recommend parents do is choose someone who's of a relatively similar age to the parents.  We had one young couple ask us if we would take their children for them.  The desire is there, but my dh would be 71 by the time the current youngest would be 18.  That may not be a good idea.  Also, when asking a non family member to parent, you need to consider the long term effects of that.  With this family, I'll agree that we're likely more stable than the relatives, but I'm not keen on interacting with some of these people for another 20 years.

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We had to go with friends instead of family. But this reminds me I need to change the will. When you do a will, you're supposed to pick a primary person to get the kids and a secondary person, as backup.

 

Back when we did the wills our primary people had one child and things were going well. They now have four and cannot handle those four. They really can't. Sending my kids there would be sending them into utter chaos.

 

Need to change the will NOW. Thanks for the reminder.

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And, on that note, I need to talk to my husband again about getting this all down and legal.  I've been pushing him for a while now...he doesn't want to hurt his parents feelings.  *sigh*

 

Remember that his parents need never know you didn't choose them - unless of course you both die, in which case, you won't care, right??

 

Anne

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It does not have to be a family member.  It can be a friend or other responsible person who knows the children.  Perhaps somebody at church, at work, a godparent, even a neighbor who would be wiling to take it on if the unexpected happened.

 

One thing I'd do is set it up so that as soon as my oldest kid turned 18, s/he would be the person in charge of the minor kids.  That's what my parents did, if I remember correctly.  (They are still alive, though.)

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Anyone else find it a little reasuring that they themselves are the best option they can find for raising their own children?

 

 

I'm another who curbs some behaviour* to keep alive while dd is a minor.

 

*(Nothing too exciting, just stuff like fixing a roof by myself etc)

 

lol Yes. I am glad  we've lived long enough that oldest child can be guardian.

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I need to live at least 8 or 9 more years, period. We have no suitable "full -time" family for 4 young kids (ds would live with his father) but several options for two older teens who could help out with two tweens/young teens. We're the ones who wonder when the kids of LIVING relatives might show up at our door!

 

We really need to develop stronger friendships.

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I need to live at least 8 or 9 more years, period. We have no suitable "full -time" family for 4 young kids (ds would live with his father) but several options for two older teens who could help out with two tweens/young teens. We're the ones who wonder when the kids of LIVING relatives might show up at our door!

 

We really need to develop stronger friendships.

I think your last line is wise. I believe we are called to live in community with others. By this I mean finding ways to support others around us. This could mean celebrating with them--birthdays, weddings, graduations--living and learning alongside other people and families, and giving support when trials come.

 

I find it disconcerting when people says they don't like other people's kids or even that they don't like other people, in general. This seems like a way to live a lonely, isolated life. I think when we involve ourselves with others, we are richly rewarded. Finding guardians for one's children, particularly when no relatives are available or suitable, seems like a prime example of the benefits of developing deep relationships with others.

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Well, I also like the idea of leaving someone money for a housekeeper and nanny. However, for the boarding school idea, if it uses all your money, but your children were not abused and got a good enough educations to get scholarships and a good start in life I would not feel too badly about not leaving them money for adulthood. Lots of people start adulthood without financial help and do very well. If they are mistreated in childhood they probably would not spend the money you leave them wisely as adults anyway.

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We really don't have anyone either.  So basically we just don't designate anyone.  Not like we will be able to do anything about it if we drop dead so it will be what it will be if that happens.

 

My husband has one older brother.  He is single and lives alone in a small apartment in another country.  I can't imagine him taking on 2 kids.  My MIL is older and lives in another country.  My dad would likely try, but he is not healthy and lives in a very small apartment alone.  My sister is mentally ill.  That's all we got.  So...really what is the point in designating anyone?  If any of those people feel compelled to step up, go ahead.  I'm not thrilled to think about that, but if I'm dead I don't think I'll care.  We too have plenty of life insurance.

This.  Similar list of relatives, similar list of issues--also came to similar conclusion (though Dh has done a lot more wringing his hands over it than I have).  I've just learned that I can't control everything.    

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I think your last line is wise. I believe we are called to live in community with others. By this I mean finding ways to support others around us. This could mean celebrating with them--birthdays, weddings, graduations--living and learning alongside other people and families, and giving support when trials come.

 

I find it disconcerting when people says they don't like other people's kids or even that they don't like other people, in general. This seems like a way to live a lonely, isolated life. I think when we involve ourselves with others, we are richly rewarded. Finding guardians for one's children, particularly when no relatives are available or suitable, seems like a prime example of the benefits of developing deep relationships with others.

It's hard. The couple we love? Marital issues and wild kids. The couple we like? Gearing up for an empty nest (and marital issues.) Maybe we're picky. But finding suitable guardians is harder than finding a life partner, imo. On the bright side, one of those fell into my lap out of the blue, lol, so I'll keep myself open to that happening with guardians, too!

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Question.... How do you do all of this and is it expensive ? Would one of those will maker programs suffice? Does it need to be notarized? We need to do this.

 

You can start by googling your state and "will" or "power of attorney". That should give you a sample to fill in from. And you can usually just notarize it. (AAA does it here for $7 per document for members).

 

It may depend on your state, but in some states you can just send a handwritten signed letter in a sealed, postmarked envelope (important don't open it until needed, in fact sign across the envelope seal to prove it was never opened) to the person who is your emergency contact giving them the authorization to care for your kids in case you and DH are both incapacitated. 

 

Also our lawyer told us to put a copy of all power of attorneys with our medical file. And I carry her business card in my wallet with ICE contact list on it. 

 

Yeah, I don't suffer from anxiety or anything  :laugh: .

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I'm sure there are plenty of people in this boat. I'm not sure "I" could take on someone else's kids. Maybe that makes me mean and heartless, but yeah that would be hard on me and I'm not sure I'm up for it.

There is nothing wrong with being honest about what you can handle. My brother recently needed to find someone to take on full custody of his 7yo DD ( long story) and I'm glad my other brother and SIL stepped up eagerly. I would have taken her happily if there was no one else but she comes with a lot of baggage and parental drama I did not want to deal with. I have difficulty managing my own kids with their needs without adding another needy child to the mix.

 

My brother and SIL have two teenage kids and all four spoil and focus all their attention and care on my niece which is what she needs so it was the better placement and as much as I love her I am very happy and relieved she didn't come to me lol.

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We were in the in same boat...it is so hard, but I strongly encourage you to choose someone and to designate separate people as guardians and financial if you need to. I was inspired to finally buckle down and do this when one of my best friends from childhood died unexpectedly in a car accident (single mom, no dad in the picture). It took her mom months to go through the court process to get custody of my friend's then 3 year old daughter, even though my friend and her dd had been living with her mom for years. She did eventually get custody, but in the mean time her poor 3 year old, who just lost her mom, was taken away from the only other family she knew...it was really awful to watch from all sides. Anyway, my point is, you can plan all you want to just "stay alive" but life happens...my friend was 26 and certainly had no expectations to die anytime soon (thus why she had no will). So please, for the sake of your kids, choose someone. We ended up asking a good friend of mine (great with kids) to be the guardian, and made my other friend (not great with kids, but financially responsible) to take care of the money. I was nervous to ask, but they were both surprisingly receptive.

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Has anyone with a big family purposely stated that the kids should/could be split in a will?

 

Right now we have my sister/BIL marked as guardians with my BIL/SIL as money handlers. But with boy #4 on the way, I'm wondering whether it might make more sense to ask one family to take the older 2 and another to take the younger 2. Or friends potentially. Our families are all Christian but not Catholic and the older the kids get, it seems like keeping them with a Catholic family we trust might be better. It just seems like a lot to ask anyone to take in 4 kids knowing none of them have homes where that would work long-term in addition to the kids they already have. 

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Has anyone with a big family purposely stated that the kids should/could be split in a will?

 

Right now we have my sister/BIL marked as guardians with my BIL/SIL as money handlers. But with boy #4 on the way, I'm wondering whether it might make more sense to ask one family to take the older 2 and another to take the younger 2. Or friends potentially. Our families are all Christian but not Catholic and the older the kids get, it seems like keeping them with a Catholic family we trust might be better. It just seems like a lot to ask anyone to take in 4 kids knowing none of them have homes where that would work long-term in addition to the kids they already have. 

 

I don't have a large family (three children), but I've considered it. I know several people who would happily take on my eldest (dd12), but aren't equipped to take on two young boys as well. I got rid of that idea quickly, however - it would absolutely devastate the boys and our daughter to be separated. Despite the age difference, they are very (very) close.

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Well, I also like the idea of leaving someone money for a housekeeper and nanny. However, for the boarding school idea, if it uses all your money, but your children were not abused and got a good enough educations to get scholarships and a good start in life I would not feel too badly about not leaving them money for adulthood. Lots of people start adulthood without financial help and do very well. If they are mistreated in childhood they probably would not spend the money you leave them wisely as adults anyway.

 

I like the idea of a housekeeper and nanny as well. The problem is that when I say his family members are elderly, I mean there is no way they could live to see our children to their 18th birthday (I mean, it's possible, but they would have to live to be mid-90's - 100+ years old), which would put the children in the position of being uprooted yet again at some point.

 

Boarding school for all three would take all the life insurance money, but in frugal hands, the social security death benefits could be put aside for them.

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We have appointed my inlaws as guardians for the children and my sister and sister in law as the financial overseers.  Should we both happen to pass on together, we wanted to ensure the children would be cared for, and if one of us passes, we want to ensure the other can afford to care for them till they are old enough to leave home.  Ideally we want to see our blossoms and their children grow to their adulthood.

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We have family who are our children's guardians.

 

My oldest is now 18 and in college. I really don't think it would be fair to him to have to take on his younger siblings if we died. I can't imagine him losing both parents and then having to be in charge of the littles. But, we also have several stable family members who would welcome our children.

 

I have a friend who raised her brother-in-law's kids after their parents died. The kids were 6th grade and 8th grade when they came from several states away. My friend's children were grown and out of the house. It was a huge change for them. But they did it, and did it joyfully. So just because people are going to be or already are empty nesters does not mean they won't gladly raise your children if, God forbid, something happens to you.

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Hey! I know! We can start a WTM guardianship! We'll name board members as guardians! I mean, we're all ideal, right?

 

P.S. I call dibs on Faith Manor!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:laugh: 

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I'm sorry you are in this situation. I had a hard time picking a guardian for my kids, and there were not big problems with any of my relatives.

 

So, I don't want to make things harder for you by pointing out a possible issue with the boarding school plan. You mentioned having the kids SS money saved for them to have when they start out in life. I do not think that is possible. When my kids started received SS after their dad died, I read not to save any of the money, because it would have to be turned over to the child when they reached 18. Each year I have to fill out a form saying how much of the SS money I have saved for each child. Everything I read said to make sure that number is always 0, so I do. I know you want to have money to give to the kids, but I'm not sure you want it to be completely theirs at age 18.

 

That said I'm not sure about the boarding school plan if the kids would be separated. They would have just lost their parents and to lose contact with their siblings also would be a lot to handle. That said my kids may be split up if something happens to me as my will allows high school age kids to choose to stay in our area and live with grandparents. The other kids will move out of state to live with a different family member. I have one child who is in college, but I did not name her as guardian. She could not go to college and manage all her siblings. It is important to me that all my kids have the opportunity to go to college, so I didn't choose my oldest as the guardian. However, she will become my healthcare proxy at age 20.

 

Even though I will be dead, it was important to me to "know" where the kids would go even though there wasn't a perfect place. Shoot, they don't live in a perfect place now with me. However, I loved them too much to put them in drama with family members fighting over them or with them ending up separated with strangers while it was all straighted out.

 

 

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We have NO family we feel comfortable taking our kids.  Our guardian for our kids is my best friend who lives in Seattle.  She and her husband are great parents and we agree with most things they do.

 

There are a few things we would still worry about, but they are relatively minor in the grand scheme of things (they aren't' as responsible with money as we would like for example.)

 

I worry that even though this is all legal and written, that DH's family would still fight for custody and we DO NOT WANT THEM WITH ANY OF HIS FAMILY!  We cannot stress that enough.  We have MANY reasons.

 

Staying alive is a great goal, but you cannot help an oncoming car, etc…..so it is still very important to have things in place.

 

Dawn

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If it were merely a matter of "imperfect", it would be so much easier. There is no family member, or friend, who can provide a SAFE, non-abusive, not neglectful living situation for them.

 

Regarding the money... So, then I would want to have them use the SS for expenses/school, and save the life insurance/other for the children, instead of saving the SS?

 

I am so sorry for your loss :(

 

I'm sorry you are in this situation. I had a hard time picking a guardian for my kids, and there were not big problems with any of my relatives.

 

So, I don't want to make things harder for you by pointing out a possible issue with the boarding school plan. You mentioned having the kids SS money saved for them to have when they start out in life. I do not think that is possible. When my kids started received SS after their dad died, I read not to save any of the money, because it would have to be turned over to the child when they reached 18. Each year I have to fill out a form saying how much of the SS money I have saved for each child. Everything I read said to make sure that number is always 0, so I do. I know you want to have money to give to the kids, but I'm not sure you want it to be completely theirs at age 18.

 

That said I'm not sure about the boarding school plan if the kids would be separated. They would have just lost their parents and to lose contact with their siblings also would be a lot to handle. That said my kids may be split up if something happens to me as my will allows high school age kids to choose to stay in our area and live with grandparents. The other kids will move out of state to live with a different family member. I have one child who is in college, but I did not name her as guardian. She could not go to college and manage all her siblings. It is important to me that all my kids have the opportunity to go to college, so I didn't choose my oldest as the guardian. However, she will become my healthcare proxy at age 20.

 

Even though I will be dead, it was important to me to "know" where the kids would go even though there wasn't a perfect place. Shoot, they don't live in a perfect place now with me. However, I loved them too much to put them in drama with family members fighting over them or with them ending up separated with strangers while it was all straighted out.

 

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Do you think it would be a waste of their money, though? It would be covered, as would their living expenses, but there likely wouldn't be much left for their adult years. I worry about that. Tuition and other expenses (clothing, etc) would eat the life insurance. They would still have the survivor benefits, I believe, which could be set aside, but still...

 

Perhaps it would help to think of it this way:  if you don't go the boarding school route, your kids will have lots of money left over ... for therapy.

 

I don't mean to be glib; it sounds to me like boarding school is a brilliant solution, and it doesn't matter how much or how little is left over when they graduate.  Tons of people (myself included) get little or nothing after their parents die - heck, even before their parents die.  The care and education, IMO, is far more important than, say, enough $ to buy a house at 18 or 22.

 

 

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When my children were young, my best friend and her husband were our guardians. As my children got older, some of the reasons we didn't choose siblings were resolved, and DS's Asperger's became more of an issue, so we switched to my sister. My friend completely understood, and I think was a bit relieved. We kept her as the one in charge of finances. Not because we don't trust my sister, but they are not the best with money and my friend is excellent with money. Good luck with your decision. It can be hard.

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