Are Americans Wimps? (s/o from neglect thread)

[SKL]

I missed the neglect thread, but no, I think there are lots of Americans who live a simple life and not too many who think a simple life is a shame.

 

Yes, there are many Americans who are entitled, and some who are ignorant about what is reasonable and what is healthy.  These people seem to monopolize the media, and that is probably why it seems we are all that way.  But we are not.

[Melissa in Australia]

I think there's a difference between low-paying and minimum wage, though.  It's quite possible to make a decent living in a low-paying job, but extremely difficult if you're making minimum wage.

 

Depends on where you live. Here the minimum wage is just under $16 per hour.  Heaps of people make an OK living on that .

 

[elegantlion]

Depends on where you live. Here the minimum wage is just under $16 per hour.  Heaps of people make an OK living on that .

 

 

Minimum wage in my state is being raised tomorrow to 7.50/hour, not a livable even in my low cost of living area. 

 

I don't really have a problem with minimum wage, but part of the problem is wage increases don't happen in those low earning jobs.  In many of those "starter" type jobs you may see a .10/hour increase per year if you're lucky. It certainly doesn't offset the cost of inflation. 

 

When I worked in the insurance industry, my starting wage was lower, but each year I received a nice raise and a few promotions on top of that. By the time I left that job five years later,  my salary was sizeably larger than when I started. My experience and employee loyalty was rewarded. Had that job been in retail or fast food, my increases may not have matched. I know some people working in minimum wage jobs who have only had a .40 or .50 wage increase in a five year period. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Most nonexecutives in private industry here saw 1% or lower annual raises  from 2009 to 2012. Didn't matter if they were hourly or salaried, business was down, and they were glad to have a job.

 

I'm always amazed at how where "here" is for you always seems to be so different than, well, almost everywhere.  For the United States as a whole, the average pay increase during that time frame was between 2-3% (varied by classifications.)

[swellmomma]

Depends on where you live. Here the minimum wage is just under $16 per hour.  Heaps of people make an OK living on that .

 

 

That does make a difference.  Minimum wage here is $9.95 an hour

[Joker]

I'm always amazed at how where "here" is for you always seems to be so different than, well, almost everywhere.  For the United States as a whole, the average pay increase during that time frame was between 2-3% (varied by classifications.)

 

:iagree: My dh has received a 3-6% increase every single year. He has also received a bonus every year for the past 10 years.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Meanwhile, a Walmart employee in Montana died from exposure earlier this month because he had to live in his car. An extreme, and unusual example, but if we're talking minimum wages, well....there ya go. So to tie into the "wimps" question, perhaps another way to define it is that we are a nation that embraces the self over the society, which explains our healthcare, transit and, well, a lot. I think I argued this samr point back in that transit thread, but anyway, if the comparison to Europe is one of degrees of self-absorption writ large, then it fits.

 

Now, we are also ranked 5th on the World Giving Index, so there's a paradox to chew on.

[Mom in High Heels]

Is anyone else wondering what they recycle in Europe that we can't recycle here?

 

I don't think it's that they CAN recycle it, it's that they DO recycle it.  Everything!  Everything is sorted into specific bins (paper, plastic, glass, rubbish, compost), and they are very serious about it.  There is very little land for landfills, so if it can be recycled or reused, they do  We were part of a trial program on post.  Each stairwell had 4 bins (paper, plastic, rubbish, compost) in a locked area that only keys to those apts would unlock.  The inspector came every Thurs (pick up was on Fri), and if there was cross contamination, would take photos.  Each gate got stickers.  All green meant no cross contamination.  Yellow meant there was cross contamination in 1 bin.  Red meant cross contamination in all bins.  If there were 3 reds in a row, the stairwell coordinator (usually the highest ranking person in a stairwell) got called in to the Col's office.  The SC would go through the garbage to try to find out whose garbage was causing the contamination, so they could haul THAT person in with them.  It generally wasn't that hard to figure out.  The military was charged based on the weight of the rubbish (non recyclable items), but recycling pick up was free.  In the post paper, after one year of the pilot program for 40 stairwells, the military saved approximately $25 MILLION dollars.  That may seem like a drop in the bucket compared to our debt, but if you consider how many stairwells there are in the military housing in Europe, it's an astronomical amount of money.

 

I never said it wasn't.  Just that it's crazy that I can't recycle the one thing that I've always seen recycled everywhere since I was a child!   :lol:

 

I know!  It frequently has to do with money (of course).  Where we lived in IL, there was a recycling center, but no pickup.  If you wanted to recycle, you had to take it to the center yourself.  Fortunately for us, it was at the back of a huge public park not far from our house, so once a week, I loaded all the paper, plastic and glass into my car and dropped it off.  A lot of other people did too, but those who did, were far outnumbered by those who didn't.  I don't get why it's not important to so many people.  Don't get me wrong, we are not perfect about it (though we were scrupulous in Germany, because James Bond did NOT want to get called up in front of the COL), but we try and we care.

[Mom in High Heels]

:iagree: My dh has received a 3-6% increase every single year. He has also received a bonus every year for the past 10 years.

 

The military received a 1% pay raise this year.  :(

[Joker]

The military received a 1% pay raise this year. :(

Which is one of the reasons my dh left the Marine Corps after our dd was born. It's not right that it happens but he was from a military family and knew it wouldn't get better. I feel for you and wish the military men and women were better compensated.

[mommymilkies]

:iagree: My dh has received a 3-6% increase every single year. He has also received a bonus every year for the past 10 years.

 

The raises at dh's college just restarted last year.  1%, I believe?  They laid off 20% of faculty and had a pay increase hiatus because of budget cuts. 

What? My community has been recycling glass since the 1970's!  We can recycle all plastics (1 to 7), all kinds of metal, paper including wrapping paper and paperboard, cardboard, and glass.  We also have plenty of places to donate used clothing, housewares, and toys, and even construction materials.  Our leaves, branches and Christmas trees are used by the city for compost. We use compost in our garden.  With seven family members, we never put out more than one garbage can.

I know!  Nuts!  I donate most everything and our family of 7 puts out one trash can, too (and recycling separate).  I just cringe when I have to throw something glass away because there is absolutely nowhere able to recycle it here. 

[Mom in High Heels]

Which is one of the reasons my dh left the Marine Corps after our dd was born. It's not right that it happens but he was from a military family and knew it wouldn't get better. I feel for you and wish the military men and women were better compensated.

 

If he didn't have so long in, James Bond might have gotten out once the deployments went up and the pay raises went down.  In March he will be 2 years from retirement.  If he gets promoted (which we really hope he does), he'll have to stay in longer than 20 years and continue to get tiny pay raises, but the retirement will be better.  He could make a lot more in the private sector but, we want the security of that retirement.  

[KungFuPanda]

I don't think it's that they CAN recycle it, it's that they DO recycle it.  Everything!  Everything is sorted into specific bins (paper, plastic, glass, rubbish, compost), and they are very serious about it.  There is very little land for landfills, so if it can be recycled or reused, they do  We were part of a trial program on post.  Each stairwell had 4 bins (paper, plastic, rubbish, compost) in a locked area that only keys to those apts would unlock.  The inspector came every Thurs (pick up was on Fri), and if there was cross contamination, would take photos.  Each gate got stickers.  All green meant no cross contamination.  Yellow meant there was cross contamination in 1 bin.  Red meant cross contamination in all bins.  If there were 3 reds in a row, the stairwell coordinator (usually the highest ranking person in a stairwell) got called in to the Col's office.  The SC would go through the garbage to try to find out whose garbage was causing the contamination, so they could haul THAT person in with them.  It generally wasn't that hard to figure out.  The military was charged based on the weight of the rubbish (non recyclable items), but recycling pick up was free.  In the post paper, after one year of the pilot program for 40 stairwells, the military saved approximately $25 MILLION dollars.  That may seem like a drop in the bucket compared to our debt, but if you consider how many stairwells there are in the military housing in Europe, it's an astronomical amount of money.

 

 

 .

Wow. We don't sort. Everything goes into a giant blue bin and out to the curb. We haven't had to sort for almost a decade.

[AimeeM]

.

No, I certainly don't think it is optimal.  

 

But I don't think it's neglect or abuse or anything horrible for a family to aspire to a simple, low-income lifestyle.  

 

My grandpa was a school custodian.  He was loved and admired and cherished by many.

 

He did not have a 'good' job (by the majority of Americans' standards).  He did not have a 'good' education.  He did not have much money.

 

But he had a good life.  

 

Working a low-wage job, living in humble circumstances, living with only a GED -- these are not necessarily poverty, misery, and ignorance.  

 

[zoobie]

Wages have been stagnant in the US over the past decade despite corporate productivity and profit going up. http://www.businessinsider.com/average-wage-growth-in-the-us-2013-8

 

Most of the people I know have had tiny, not-even-COLA raises, if any, and they're making effectively less because they're shouldering more of their increased health care costs.

 

Minimum wage in my state is $5.15 for jobs not subject to the federal Fair Labor Standards Act. Good luck making a living on that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wow. We don't sort. Everything goes into a giant blue bin and out to the curb. We haven't had to sort for almost a decade.

We don't have to sort either and I only live about an hour north of Heels.  But. . . different company, different rules.  

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The average salary increase here was appp 2-3%:

 

4 to 5% for local and state govt, 1 to -1% for private industry nonexecutive.  Some of the school superintendents in the area actually declined their raises, in sympathy with the majority of the nongovernmental taxpayers/workers in their districts.

 

I do live in a different area than many places -- it's one of the official 'diverse' areas of the U.S., heavily unionized, high tax, and has a large social safety net. Seems to work for many immigrants...know several who came with nothing and own their own homes and businesses ten years later.

 

Could you give me some links or citations for those numbers?  Thanks.

 

[LibraryLover]

I grew up in frugal Yankee territory. People are not generally ostentatious. Old trucks-- and boots ( mine are 30 year old LLBean) are standard, although higher education is important. (I was teasing about the other stuff.)

 

[Mom in High Heels]

Wow. We don't sort. Everything goes into a giant blue bin and out to the curb. We haven't had to sort for almost a decade.

 

 

We don't have to sort either and I only live about an hour north of Heels.  But. . . different company, different rules.  

 

We don't have to sort here.  Jean, I was talking about when we were in Germany.   Here (LeMay company), we have a blue bin for paper, plastic, tin and aluminum.  We don't have the option for glass or plastic coated paper (like milk cartons), or compost.  I suppose we could compost on our own, but um, we don't.   We might come spring, but we'll have to see.   When we throw away something that we're used to recycling, it feels weird and like we're doing something wrong!

[Mom0012]

There seems to be an idea that everyone deserves a single-family home, a high-paying job, and a variety of interesting food.

 

In other countries, it's normal to share housing, work your butt off to get by in a job that isn't a dream-come-true, and eat staple food items most days of the year.  Here, we think that's failure, or neglect, or poverty.  

 

Thoughts?

 

I don't know.  I think some of the people who seemed to feel action should be taken in the thread you are talking about were people from other countries.  I am a little tired of the American bashing that seems to becoming so common and accepted here.  No, Americans are not perfect and I'm sure some are wimps, just as I am sure some Australians, Canadians and English are as well.

 

I do think the expectations that were expressed in that thread were ridiculous, but it was by a small group and the majority did not seem to agree.  At least that was my perception.

 

 

[shawthorne44]

I think the basis of this is: Normal is defined for you, the way you are.  

 

I remember reading recently that people just below the poverty line in the U.S. would be wealthy in many other countries.  

 

In my world, to plan on "share housing, work your butt off to get by in a job that isn't a dream-come-true, and eat staple food items most days of the year. "   would be odd.  I have done it.  In the past, I have not eaten because I had zero money and hadn't been paid yet.  But, that was a temporary thing on my way to a goal.  Paying for my college without parental help.  

 

I would not describe my family is materialist.  We drive cars until they are donated for scrap.  We do not have smart phones.  We don't eat out often.  We'd rather not buy clothes, and when we do, we shop at Goodwill and usually donate some at the same time.  But, as a family, sharing housing would be shameful.  I love my job, and I work for a great company.  We eat whatever we feel like eating.  That is our norm.  

[Crimson Wife]

If my science geek son becomes an electrician that is great. But I don't want him to have to make that choice because he didn't have the prep to be able to choose a path towards a doctorate in electrical engineering. Does that make sense?

What would stop him from as an adult working to remedy whatever deficits he has in his academic preparation? I seriously don't get all the gloom and doom about one's place in life at 18 being some insurmountable obstacle to a better future.

 

Does it make things harder to have a lousy K-12 education? Sure. Does it permanently keep a bright and hardworking individual from earning a higher degree? No.

[regentrude]

I don't know.  I think some of the people who seemed to feel action should be taken in the thread you are talking about were people from other countries.  I am a little tired of the American bashing that seems to becoming so common and accepted here.  No, Americans are not perfect and I'm sure some are wimps, just as I am sure some Australians, Canadians and English are as well.

 

I do think the expectations that were expressed in that thread were ridiculous, but it was by a small group and the majority did not seem to agree.  At least that was my perception.

 

 

Since you are addressing the issue of other countries and comparisons about expectations:

I have lived in Germany for many years, and in the US for 15 years. It is my impression, based on my personal experiences (which is an important disclaimer, others may disagree), that the expectations about the material standard of living in terms of possessions (house, cars, stuff etc) are much higher among people in the US than in Germany, while OTOH the expectations about non-material issues, such as medical care and education, are much higher among people in Germany than in the US.

Or in other words: in Germany, it is considered normal that you can get medical treatment when you are sick, or study at a university, but not that you own a home.

I am not entirely sure to what degree this has a cultural and historical basis in the strong emphasis on the individual in the US. Sharing resources in society to fund medical care and education for all is met with a resistance that is completely alien to European thinking. I would suspect the differences in priorities and perceived "normal" may have something to do with this.

[elegantlion]

Since you are addressing the issue of other countries and comparisons about expectations:

I have lived in Germany for many years, and in the US for 15 years. It is my impression, based on my personal experiences (which is an important disclaimer, others may disagree), that the expectations about the material standard of living in terms of possessions (house, cars, stuff etc) are much higher among people in the US than in Germany, while OTOH the expectations about non-material issues, such as medical care and education, are much higher among people in Germany than in the US.

Or in other words: in Germany, it is considered normal that you can get medical treatment when you are sick, or study at a university, but not that you own a home.

I am not entirely sure to what degree this has a cultural and historical basis in the strong emphasis on the individual in the US. Sharing resources in society to fund medical care and education for all is met with a resistance that is completely alien to European thinking. I would suspect the differences in priorities and perceived "normal" may have something to do with this.

 

What is your perception/experience on the transient nature of some Americans? Do Germans move often or do they tend to put down roots. 

 

one of my former sisters-in-law is German and I know her extended family all lived in the same area. They had houses that had been passed down for generations. Is that common? 

[regentrude]

What is your perception/experience on the transient nature of some Americans? Do Germans move often or do they tend to put down roots. 

 

one of my former sisters-in-law is German and I know her extended family all lived in the same area. They had houses that had been passed down for generations. Is that common? 

 

Yes, extremely common. Germans do not move as much. It is very common for a family to remain in an area for generations, put down roots (a notable exception is the disruption of these traditions by WWII, when families were uprooted and became refugees.)

If Germans happen to own a house, it is very likely that they will live in this house until they die or are no longer able to live independently. Acquiring a single family home is pretty much a "final" step of firmly putting down roots; very few people own and sell multiple homes during their lifetime.

The concept of "Heimat", the home area, is a very German one, and I can not even find an English word that could serve as an adequate translation. It encompasses home location and culture and carries a very strongly positive emotional connotation.

 

I am still having a hard time coming to terms with the American mobility, as I am preparing to send my DD far away to college and know that, in all likelihood, she will never again permanently live with us. I do understand that mobility is a great economic asset and necessary to take advantage of opportunities, but I am wrestling with it on an emotional level. From those same roots of culture and upbringing also stems the fact that, after 12 years here, I am still very homesick, especially during the holidays, and envy my sister who lives in the same city as my parents and can spend holidays "at home".

[Lisbeth]

I wonder how quickly this thread will go downhill ?

 

I don't think it's 'wimpy' to want all children to have the opportunity to reach their own potential, starting with a good, solid education.

 

Disclaimer:  I only read a few of the responses.

 

I wouldn't call it wimpy.  I would call it higher standards based on what is available for Americans.

 

I also think you can't lump all Americans together - we are very diverse.

 

I think it's wimpy to be able-bodied and stick your hand out and demand your neighbors via taxes give you things you won't work for ... but then, I am sure that will contribute to divide on this thread.

[Mergath]

 

I think it's wimpy to be able-bodied and stick your hand out and demand your neighbors via taxes give you things you won't work for ... but then, I am sure that will contribute to divide on this thread.

 

:001_rolleyes:

 

You make comments like this often, no matter how many people tell you that they've worked themselves nearly to death for minimum wage and still needed help just to keep food on the table.  Do you actually read the replies to your little jabs?  If not, I'd recommend doing so.

[SKL]

I am not sure the relative emphasis on homeownership is being viewed appropriately.  The ability to acquire real estate in the USA is just not comparable to that in any other part of the world that I know of.  You can buy a house free and clear for anywhere from $8,000 on up, depending on how willing you are to live in certain neighborhoods / fix up the place.  This is why a person who does not aspire to own a home is the exception rather than the rule.  Some people choose not to because they are not ready or willing to put down roots etc., but for the average American it is a realistic goal for most who really want it.  Can't say that in many places.  (I realize that there are a few places in the US where this is not true, but these are exceptions.)

[regentrude]

I am not sure the relative emphasis on homeownership is being viewed appropriately.  The ability to acquire real estate in the USA is just not comparable to that in any other part of the world that I know of.  You can buy a house free and clear for anywhere from $8,000 on up, depending on how willing you are to live in certain neighborhoods / fix up the place.  This is why a person who does not aspire to own a home is the exception rather than the rule.  Some people choose not to because they are not ready or willing to put down roots etc., but for the average American it is a realistic goal for most who really want it.  Can't say that in many places.  (I realize that there are a few places in the US where this is not true, but these are exceptions.)

 

I am fully aware of this. Still, the emphasis is there, along with the tendency to acquire tons more material possessions (which, of course, has something to do with the large amount of surface area to store stuff). But those things do translate into cultural differences.

Among all my local friends with similar income levels, jobs, and interests, we are the ones who own the least amount of stuff. (And, by German standards, we do have a lot, we are not minimalists by far). People comment that our house looks empty. There is a definite difference, and while that is certainly related to the ease and low expense with which homes can be acquired, it does become a cultural difference.

(We don't have yard sales in Germany, because people typically do not have that many extraneous possessions to sell)

 

 

[Joanne]

There seems to be an idea that everyone deserves a single-family home, a high-paying job, and a variety of interesting food.

 

In other countries, it's normal to share housing, work your butt off to get by in a job that isn't a dream-come-true, and eat staple food items most days of the year. Here, we think that's failure, or neglect, or poverty.

 

Thoughts?

I don't have the same experience as you do for paragraph #1. I see people of all backgrounds *struggling*. Some are financially comfortable or stable, but struggle in other ways.

 

Often finically struggles prevent worrying about higher level stuff.

 

Most people I know personally in the US are "working their butts off".

[LucyStoner]

What would stop him from as an adult working to remedy whatever deficits he has in his academic preparation? I seriously don't get all the gloom and doom about one's place in life at 18 being some insurmountable obstacle to a better future.

 

Does it make things harder to have a lousy K-12 education? Sure. Does it permanently keep a bright and hardworking individual from earning a higher degree? No.

I will just leave it at stating that I believe I owe my own children the best I can give them and I would personally consider myself not a very good homeschool parent if my profoundly gifted son has to remediate his own k-12 education to get into college or graduate school. I don't think it is my right to make things harder than they otherwise will be for my children when they are young adults. Regardless of if educational neglect is a prosecutable criminal act, I consider it to be profoundly immoral and would not do it. I can not fathom why saying I owe my children a great education would be a vaguely controversial statement.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't know.  I think some of the people who seemed to feel action should be taken in the thread you are talking about were people from other countries.  I am a little tired of the American bashing that seems to becoming so common and accepted here.  

 

If you're suggesting that non-Americans don't know how to behave in American space, think again.

[DawnM]

What percentage of Americans own their homes?

 

Most owe more than half of what the house is worth, so they really are just paying the bank.

 

I don't like the assumption that if you have a mortgage, you "own" your home.  You don't.

 

However, every website with statistics on home ownership include anyone who lives in a home they pay a mortgage on.

 

 

"The American Dream", for several generations, has included home ownership. It's cultural. Just listen to  political speeches--home ownership is nearly always included as proof of the American Dream. I think material possessions have always been the main part of it from the very beginning of the settlers arrival in the US.

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

What percentage of Americans own their homes?

 

Most owe more than half of what the house is worth, so they really are just paying the bank.

 

I don't like the assumption that if you have a mortgage, you "own" your home.  You don't.

 

However, every website with statistics on home ownership include anyone who lives in a home they pay a mortgage on.

 

Except in the cases where someone is underwater on their mortgage, someone paying a mortgage is likely to have equity in their home and it is reasonable to consider them a "home owner."

[Mom0012]

If you're suggesting that non-Americans don't know how to behave in American space, think again.

 

I am not suggesting anything other than what I said.  The American bashing is getting old and a number of the people in the thread that was referred to were not Americans. 

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree with most of regentude's posts in a general way. I disagree a little about the home thing. I have moved a LOT as an adult and still desperately miss my "home" and family. I know a lot of military wives who feel that way. But, I can see that my lifestyle doesn't actually allow me to put down roots somewhere else. So, that is probably more of a microcosm thing.

 

Pointing out differences isn't bashing in any way.

[Mom0012]

Since you are addressing the issue of other countries and comparisons about expectations:

I have lived in Germany for many years, and in the US for 15 years. It is my impression, based on my personal experiences (which is an important disclaimer, others may disagree), that the expectations about the material standard of living in terms of possessions (house, cars, stuff etc) are much higher among people in the US than in Germany, while OTOH the expectations about non-material issues, such as medical care and education, are much higher among people in Germany than in the US.

Or in other words: in Germany, it is considered normal that you can get medical treatment when you are sick, or study at a university, but not that you own a home.

I am not entirely sure to what degree this has a cultural and historical basis in the strong emphasis on the individual in the US. Sharing resources in society to fund medical care and education for all is met with a resistance that is completely alien to European thinking. I would suspect the differences in priorities and perceived "normal" may have something to do with this.

 

Yes, the US has been very prosperous in recent years, which has led to higher expectations.  I can see the changes that have occurred since my childhood.  Personally, I believe that is going to shift in the opposite direction and we will adjust our expectations accordingly.  But, I suspect that if another country experienced the increase in the standard of living that we have, they would increase their expectations as well.

 

As far as medical care and education go, I'm not going to debate you on that.  I've heard enough about how much more "high minded" other countries are and the wonders of their government systems to last me a lifetime. 

[Mom0012]

I agree with most of regentude's posts in a general way. I disagree a little about the home thing. I have moved a LOT as an adult and still desperately miss my "home" and family. I know a lot of military wives who feel that way. But, I can see that my lifestyle doesn't actually allow me to put down roots somewhere else. So, that is probably more of a microcosm thing.

 

Pointing out differences isn't bashing in any way.

 

Pointing out differences isn't bashing, but suggesting that Americans are wimps is bashing, isn't it?  It would be nice to see Americans stand up for themselves a little from time to time. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I believe that the person who called Americans wimps was American..

[Mom0012]

Examples of American bashing ?

 

A different perspective or opinion isn't bashing.

 

Well, suggesting that Americans are wimps and then expecting that we should all just agree with it, for example. 

 

What if I started a thread titled "Are all Australians wimps?".  I bet that would be quite contentious.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes, the US has been very prosperous in recent years, which has led to higher expectations. I can see the changes that have occurred since my childhood. Personally, I believe that is going to shift in the opposite direction and we will adjust our expectations accordingly. But, I suspect that if another country experienced the increase in the standard of living that we have, they would increase their expectations as well.

 

As far as medical care and education go, I'm not going to debate you on that. I've heard enough about how much more "high minded" other countries are and the wonders of their government systems to last me a lifetime.

I didn't see regentude's post as bashing. There are a lot of differences between the educational systems of Germany and the US. For example, many Germans only go to school through 9th/10th grade, then go to vocational school or technical college. It is a *difference*. There are pros and cons to each system. She isn't saying one or the other is superior (from my view). The whole concept is different. I am American, but lived in Germany for 5 years. There are a lot of cultural differences. Taking offense when these are pointed out isn't useful to discourse.

[Mom0012]

I believe that the person who called Americans wimps was American..

 

Yes, I am well aware of that.  I am simply pointing out that I do not agree and I have to wonder why she would point the finger at Americans when a number of the people who seemed to feel the strongest in that thread were not even Americans. 

[Mrs Mungo]

Pointing out differences isn't bashing, but suggesting that Americans are wimps is bashing, isn't it? It would be nice to see Americans stand up for themselves a little from time to time.

The OP is an American.

[Melissa in Australia]

Well, suggesting that Americans are wimps and then expecting that we should all just agree with it, for example. 

 

What if I started a thread titled "Are all Australians wimps?".  I bet that would be quite contentious.

 

the difference being that It was an AMERICAN person who said that.

 

 

If an Aussies started up a thread about Aussies I very much doubt that it would be contentious at all.

 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

No, because we'd probably all just laugh. And crack jokes about how slack we are and maybe try to outdo each other in tales of wimpiness. Some Americans take themselves and their nation way too seriously!

 

For example, I'm so wimpy I call dh to deal with red backs.

 

Etc.

 

You've got the wrong end of the stick on this one.

 

:iagree:

 

 

Aussies are not patriotic.

 

 

 

[Mom0012]

I didn't see regentude's post as bashing. There are a lot of differences between the educational systems of Germany and the US. For example, many Germans only go to school through 9th/10th grade, then go to vocational school or technical college. It is a *difference*. There are pros and cons to each system. She isn't saying one or the other is superior (from my view). The whole concept is different. I am American, but lived in Germany for 5 years. There are a lot of cultural differences. Taking offense when these are pointed out isn't useful to discourse.

 

No, I am not saying she is bashing, and I hope regentude doesn't read it that way.  I do not take offense to her post.  I am simply responding to it.  Or is that not allowed any more?  I think I was pretty clear about what I considered bashing. 

[Mom0012]

the difference being that It was an AMERICAN person who said that.

 

 

If an Aussies started up a thread about Aussies I very much doubt that it would be contentious at all.

 

Okay, so since an American started it, then it's okay and it's not bashing.  Just because an American started it, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.  We are not all one and the same over here. 

 

And if the Aussies are so laid back, why do so many of them jump in on threads like this?

[regentrude]

Yes, the US has been very prosperous in recent years, which has led to higher expectations.  I can see the changes that have occurred since my childhood.  Personally, I believe that is going to shift in the opposite direction and we will adjust our expectations accordingly.  But, I suspect that if another country experienced the increase in the standard of living that we have, they would increase their expectations as well.

 

As far as medical care and education go, I'm not going to debate you on that.  I've heard enough about how much more "high minded" other countries are and the wonders of their government systems to last me a lifetime. 

 

In case you missed it, Germany has been very prosperous, too. The cultural differences in saving and spending patterns between Germany and the US are significant and common knowledge. Germans save a much higher percentage of household income, instead of spending it. (This has issues of its own with economic implications, but discussing these is not the point here). It's not that they are unable to buy a lot of stuff, it's that  they choose not to.

 

I never said anything about being high-minded. I talked about expectations and priorities. And it is simply a fact that some peoples choose priorities different from those of the Americans. Which has cultural and historical reasons.

[Melissa in Australia]

What is a red back!?

 

Americans are so varied.  There isn't much general anyone can say about them.  So some will laugh about this.  Some will be offended.  Some will think it's bull poop.  Others won't even click on the link.

 

And heck, I'm sure Australians are varied too.

 

 Red back is a spider. it is related to the black widow

[Mom0012]

It's hard to hear that other countries may do some things better, especially if you are heavily invested in being patriotic.

 

Me, I am the antithesis of patriotic. So tell me the things the US does more humanely than Australia and I'll take notes and probably agree with you.

 

Well, please, list all the things that Australia does so wonderfully.  Because I'm pretty underwhelmed right now.

 

But, that's enough for me.  I keep my mouth shut most of the time, but I notice many other people are as well, and every once in awhile I just have to say something.  I am patriotic and I'm not ashamed of it.