Should instate ps schools be majority instate students?

[Crimson Wife]

My mom grew up in Ohio and really wanted to attend UC Berkeley. She didn't get accepted despite really strong stats so she attended UC Riverside for a year, established CA residency, and transferred into Berkeley. I do think that the most selective UC campuses (Berkeley and UCLA) should limit the number of OOS/foreign students because there aren't remotely enough slots for all the qualified in-state residents who want to attend. If the OOS students want to do what my mom did, that's fine.

[Crimson Wife]

So what about in-state students whose families do not pay state tax?

How do you avoid paying sales tax? There are plenty of CA residents who are too poor to pay income taxes, but they're still paying the same nearly 10% sales tax as everyone else. Sales tax makes up about 24% of the general revenue fund, and part of that goes to the UC and Cal State systems.

[Laura in CA]

My mom grew up in Ohio and really wanted to attend UC Berkeley. She didn't get accepted despite really strong stats so she attended UC Riverside for a year, established CA residency, and transferred into Berkeley. I do think that the most selective UC campuses (Berkeley and UCLA) should limit the number of OOS/foreign students because there aren't remotely enough slots for all the qualified in-state residents who want to attend. If the OOS students want to do what my mom did, that's fine.

 

Poor UC Riverside ... :)

(Actually I have cousins who came from overseas and attended places like Cal State Stanislaus for a year or two to improve their English, and then moved on to UC Berkeley, etc.)

 

What your mother did isn't possible anymore, and probably hasn't been for a while (since the mid-1990s, apparently). CA officials have wised up, haha. OOS/foreign students have to pay full freight all 4+ years. I think gaining residency status may be possible for grad students (who are of course older). For undergraduates it is possible but very complicated. (Quote from that Cal link: It should be noted that this requirement makes it extremely difficult for most undergraduates who do not have a parent domiciled in California to qualify for classification as a resident at a University of California campus.)

 

It *is* possible in at least one state (Utah) for a student to establish state residency simply by attending college in that state for a year (and various minor things such as car registration), but my understanding is that this is fairly rare these days.

[Jane in NC]

My mom grew up in Ohio and really wanted to attend UC Berkeley. She didn't get accepted despite really strong stats so she attended UC Riverside for a year, established CA residency, and transferred into Berkeley. I do think that the most selective UC campuses (Berkeley and UCLA) should limit the number of OOS/foreign students because there aren't remotely enough slots for all the qualified in-state residents who want to attend. If the OOS students want to do what my mom did, that's fine.

 

In NC, attending university alone does not qualify one for residency status.  OOS students after a year of studies remain OOS students.  If one works full time, transfers bank accounts, has a driver's license and car registration in NC, etc., there is the possibility of in state status but a student must prove that he was first a resident of the state and then secondarily a student.  Anyone who moves here with the clear intention of attending university is not granted residency status easily. 

 

If a student today is using this strategy for reduced tuition or to be placed in a different category in an admissions pool, I think he might want to do some research.

 

[Janice in NJ]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's perspectives. Interesting conversation. The entire instate/OOS issue is something that does impact us quite a bit since we move a lot and the rules and regulations are different in every state. We moved into our current house in Feb and ds applied to 2 instate schools. One accepted him as instate and another as OOS even though he definitely meets instate criteria. When he called and asked, he was told bc he had an out of state college transcript they automatically had to classify him as OOS. (Not sure where that rule came from, but it was a lot of paperwork to get his status changed.)

 

Thank you for all the well wishes for my dil. The procedure went well. Her cervix was really short and they said they were able to lengthen it and she has not had any contractions due to it (they were very concerned that it would put her into preterm labor.). She goes back in on Tues and if all is well, hopefully she will be able to resume her normal activities.

Hi 8,

 

I didn't return to the boards until this morning.  Glad to hear that your DiL is doing well.  Still praying for her and her precious little one.

 

Peace,

Janice

[TravelingChris]

I have something to add about UA and scholarships.  My dd was accepted to UA as an out of state student and was going to have a 3/4 tuition scholarship.  But then we found out we were being transferred to Alabama and even before we moved (since we are military and once we had orders), she was moved into the instate category and thereby got a 100% tuition scholarship.  None of these honor scholarships are funded by the state.  They are all funded by donations from people who want to improve the percentage of smart educated citizens in Alabama. 

 

 

To the poster who said OOS students go to a University and return to live in their home states -- no, that isn't all that common or at least wasn't all that common before this very long, extended recession.  It used to be, and still is with students who are lucky enough to get jobs, that many students stayed in the same state or a nearby state.  THat is because a lot of the recruiters are recruiting for nearby jobs, and also because the students have now spent their entire adult lives living in a different state.  They may have fallen in love with a student from that state.  THey may have decided that they don't want to go back to snow and ice (a consideration some might make if living in Tuscaloosa).  For these honor students, and let me point out that not all the students from OOS are in the honors college or getting these scholarships, there is a special program to fund them through masters or to give them preferential treatment in getting into U of A law school (I don't know about other programs because my dd was pre law and possibly wanting a Masters degree first).  Anyway, even if half leave and go home, that still would lead to more smart educated students now staying here. 

 

Also, being in Alabama, I haven't heard anyone here complaining that U of A is too hard to get into and that they resent OOS students.  Kids I know here are choosing colleges based on other things such as particular program, feel of campus, family loyalty (Auburn or U of A), how far they want to be away from their families, and other such things.  No one has said anything about OOS students taking away their spot or their child's spot at U of A. 

 

Ar least in engineering schools my dd has looked into, everyone seems to be offering good deals for OOS students with the grades and ACT scores that they want.  (Oh, we do have SAT tests here too but the much more common test here is ACT and the U of A material mainly emphasizes the ACT scores). 

[StephanieZ]

Another perspective is that a state benefits by increasing the caliber of it's young professional class . . . So, if U.Al recruits awesomely smart OOS students with merit scholarships, Al then has the opportunity to retain this young person for grad/professional school . . . and that young person has then spent 7-10 years in Al and is more and more likely to stay for keeps, increasing the "human capital" of the state, which is arguably the most valuable asset a state has.

 

Our state flagship, WVU, retains many, many of our top students b/c WV offers generous merit aid to good students (close to full tuition/fees), instate tuition is very cheap anyway, and WVU adds on very generous merit aid to top students (can equal or even surpass total cost of attendance). This approach maximizes WV's chance of keeping our top talent in state. I can tell you that I'd guess 75% or more of the private practice MDs here in the college town (of WVU and its medical school) are totally home educated -- The degrees on the wall will ALL be from WVU -- undergrad, MD, residency . . . ALL. I was checking out the instate dental school tuition rules, and I realized that a WV resident can get a dental school education for MUCH MUCH cheaper than typical. In fact, if you took the generous merit scholarships for undergrad and then lived cheap in dental school, I bet you could graduate as a DDS with under 100k in debt compared to many/most DDS programs that lead to debt several times that. 

 

So, as a parent of a merit-aid-eligible kid, I am sorely tempted to encourage her to stay here in WV for $$.

 

Meanwhile, U. Al (and a few others) will give my kid a full (or near full) ride to undergrad, and U. Al (and a few others) now throw in a FIFTH year of free tuition, and they allow you to use all those years towards not just undergrad but grad, professional, medical school . ..  Meaning a smart kid might well get at least one if not two years of medical or dental school tuition paid for debt free in addition to undergrad. WOW!!

 

Now, tell me, if my kid goes to U. Al, and decides she wants to be an MD or DDS, is she more likely to stay there and take advantage of that free year or two . . . or come home to WV? 

 

I think she's more likely to stay in Al . . . and I bet she's then more likely to stay there for the rest of her life!

 

As a permanently-planted WV resident, that is a negative to me, lol, as I'd prefer her back near me long-term, but I am sure it is a BIG positive for Alabama!

 

As you increase the caliber of the university, you are increasing the value of the "human capital" of graduates you are creating (and that pool of young graduates who are feeding into your economy/employment/business growth). So, there is significant value to a state of increasing the caliber of the students in its universities.

 

So, really, I think the economics of this are much more complex than on first glance.

 

[creekland]

 

Meanwhile, U. Al (and a few others) will give my kid a full (or near full) ride to undergrad, and U. Al (and a few others) now throw in a FIFTH year of free tuition, and they allow you to use all those years towards not just undergrad but grad, professional, medical school . ..  Meaning a smart kid might well get at least one if not two years of medical or dental school tuition paid for debt free in addition to undergrad. WOW!!

 

Now, tell me, if my kid goes to U. Al, and decides she wants to be an MD or DDS, is she more likely to stay there and take advantage of that free year or two . . . or come home to WV? 

 

I think she's more likely to stay in Al . . . and I bet she's then more likely to stay there for the rest of her life!

 

...

 

So, really, I think the economics of this are much more complex than on first glance.

 

I could be wrong - or things could have changed, but I THINK UAs med school (in Birmingham) is one that gives preference to Alabama residents - not necessarily those who just went to college in the state.  At the time my guy was looking at them, there didn't seem to be any "pro" to using UA undergrad when looking for med school in that aspect.  Since AL is looking toward increasing their prestige, it's possible they've seen this "negative" and have changed it.

 

Students from our school/state (PA) choose both UWV and UA at times - generally with good merit $$.  Of those I know, I haven't heard of any returning home yet, but I also don't know that they've been settling in their new state.  Kids who are willing to go states away for college also are often willing enough to consider many places for settling down.  We had NO ties to PA before deciding we liked this place enough to raise our boys here.  (Home was NY and NC respectively, college for both was VA, we've lived in VA, RI, FL, and for the past 18 years, PA.  My kids have chosen GA, NY, and FL for college.)