Writing problems, 6th grade

[Elisabet1]

We are having writing problems. I am wondering if I should just make more effort, or sit back and worry less.  He is an older 6th grader, having turned 12 in September.

 

Here goes...we go fine with the free writing. About 3 times a week, I give a story starter and he writes in his journal. We have no problems there. I also do not grade journal or free writing. 

 

But on the form writing, he is doing poorly and fighting me. I am torn on to whether I should sit down with him and put more effort in, or back off and give him more time. Basically, everything is great from grammar to spelling to handwriting. But when it comes to writing an assignment, he makes little effort. Since he loves to read and read a ton, I thought perhaps I should back off and when he is ready, he will just take off. My oldest read a ton and didn't write so much. Now he is minoring in writing in college (majoring in computer science). On the other hand, my second child, we did a lot of writing in home school and she did not like reading. Her writing really has a lot to be desired despite all the work we did.

 

So what would you do? Let him spend his time doing tons of reading and sticking with just the story starters for now? Or, sit down and get serious about making him do his formal writing assignments better? I can put aside what I have for writing for a while. (I have a variety, so it is not the program. The only thing I think I could get that might be better than what I have is the Paragraph Book to back him up a bit).

[Ellie]

What are you using for his formal writing assignments? Even though you say it is not the program, knowing what you're using will help us answer your question better.

[Elisabet1]

Sorry, I made a nice reply and it got lost in internet-land. 

 

I had been using BJU English. But, at this point, in the past, I have switched to Write Shop. However, I am doing Apologia Jump In. However, he requested to go back to BJU, so I got that for 6th grade. 

 

Admittedly, I have not spent much time with him on it. My oldest was in a huge accident. My 2nd has been visiting colleges and applying. My middles have had tons of things going on (including multiple Nutcrackers) and my littlest one has been sick for the last couple weeks.

 

My main concern though, is it more beneficial to sit down with him and spend the time working on the writing at this age, or to let him just sit and read? My oldest loved to read and was content to read tons, and he now is minoring in writing in college. My 2nd child hated to read, but we did a ton with writing. She still is not a good writer. It makes me wonder if, at this age, it is better to spend tons of time reading, or sitting down working on writing skills.

[Elisabet1]

Could you give an example of a writing assignment and what he turns in?  Hard to say because I don't know really what you mean.  (I have a 6th grader as well.)

I can try to type one in..I don't know how to scan and post..so give me a minute....

[Elisabet1]

He got to pick his own topic....this is supposed to be a persuasive paper...

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

This is why I shouldn't have to write this essay. For one, I don't know how to write Introductions. These 3 reasons also contribute.

 

1st of all, I already did this essay in the form of "Why we should have dessert after dinner every night." Maybe that's why I am such a butterball. Another reason could be because of my next reason.

 

Sehcunduval GIMME SOMETHING TO EAT!! <angry face> I'm pretty hungry and that's sure if helping me concetrate. SARCASM! Butt, apparently, that isn't as funny as whtever <lowercase brother name> (lowercase G'ed!) is cackling at.

 

Third of all, <brother's name written correctly this time> is in the background. He is playing some youtube video and is laughing at it a ton.

 

NOW you see why I don't wanna do this, this, THING! The red button, the "substantials" (I'm getting pretty thirsty too), and the background music. Whew! I absolutly refuse to write this paper! Wait...Wait a second....I just did this paper, didn't I!?! Rrrrrrr........

 

 

___________________________________________________

 

Ok..that was the paper....spelling and punctuation and all. And it was done over 3 days, where we never starved him or kept him from drinking. I do not mind that he is writing about why he should not have to write the paper. But as you can see, there is a lot more wrong with the paper than the topic.

[Elisabet1]

:lol:

 

Sorry.  It's only funny because it is not my kid.  My son sometimes has a similar attitude. 

 

What has the instruction for this sort of assignment been like? 

I definitely have not given him enough instruction. I gave him instructions. But, normally, I would sit down with him after he did the rough draft and gone over revisions together. Prior to writing the first draft, he was given examples, and wrote out a chart. In the case of this particular paper, we went with an outline instead of a chart so much. 

 

Don't worry, I can definitely see the humor in the paper, LOL. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I can relate all too well. If nothing else, know that you are not alone.

[Elisabet1]

In his case, he is not making any effort. He knows his dad has been in charge a lot lately, so, he gets away with a lot. Realistically, I could sit down with him and get busy now with the work. As of Monday in 10 days from now, my schedule that has been so hectic has really freed up.  (unless there is, yet again, another accident).

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Perhaps he would shine in a writing class with other pupils to compete (er work) with. Maybe he needs a challenge? Essay contest?

[Another Lynn]

I would give him non-fiction topics to "free-write" from for a while - I.e. classification of cloud types, compare/contrast two historical figures or two movie characters, etc. When the writing comes smoother and easier impose more structure. If making an outline together is too tedious (or you run out of time - I totally get it!!), give him an outline to write from. You'll be modeling good structure and after awhile he'll see how to do it on his own. Writing programs don't work. Writing does.

[prairiewindmomma]

For us, the problems come more from content than from form. Having specific material to write from and a grading rubric has been very helpful. IEW and WWS have gone over well here, although laziness and attitude still pop up when he is feeling particularly challenged.

[Farrar]

:lol:  I'm sorry - I know you're frustrated, but what an awesome writing voice he has.  And I agree that while obviously you were looking for something else, it's not that bad for a 6th grader.  He got two of the really basic elements of the assignment.  First, that it should argue something - which it really did.  Heck, it argued it so well, that you're sitting there thinking maybe you shouldn't have given him the assignment in the first place!  Second, that it should do it in a specific format with five paragraphs and supporting points.  Which, again, it did.  Just think, it takes some kids ages to master a form well enough to parody it. ;)

 

I agree with having him do more informal writing that's nonfiction based.  I would also read good essays so he sees what the end goal of this whole nonsense is.  Try other forms as well.  I know we tend to hold the persuasive essay up like it's the be all end all, but it's one form.  Building good sentences and word choices and paragraphs and practicing different forms all can lead to eventually doing better on those five paragraph essays without having to do them over and over.

[ChrissySC]

I feel that your intuition is supporting your concerns. He does provide several indicators within this draft that hint towards not only his lack of understanding but lack of structure and methods. So,no. I would not take this lightly. I would,however, find a program that uses imitation or focuses on the writing process. I have had great success with Write with the Best.... this not the only resource , of course, but it does use literature selections, which may keep him interested. There are quite a few classical programs that might suit him much better because he is an avid reader. Play towards his strengths and likes.

[Mrs Twain]

If this were my kid:

 

First I would laugh at the humor. It was pretty funny.

 

Then I would have him correct every spelling and grammar error.

 

Finally (likely due to my German ancestry) I would inform him that he will rewrite the paper for "homework," meaning after school during his free time, and that it needs to be a serious essay. He could choose the topic as long as he cleared it with me first. If he is required to do extra work as a consequence for his initial lack of effort, then he will eventually (hopefully) shape up.

[Matryoshka]

Oh my.  My youngest is a bit like that.  I don't think she's ever written me anything so wittily humorous, but her assignments for me are always the bare minimum, and it is very obviously because she doesn't want to do it.  She follows the bare-bones rubric of the assignment, but it's just awful.  She has great grammar, vocabulary, mechanics... but she'd give me assignments that were all simple sentences with simple words.  For example, early in 6th she took a Paragraph class from Time4Learning - the paragraphs they wanted were basically mini-5-paragraph essays - intro sentence, 3 supporting points, concluding sentence.  I swear one of them went something like this:

 

I like cats.  I like cats because they are fluffy.  I also like them because they are snuggly. Finally, I like them because they are cute.  These are the reasons I like cats.

 

Or something similarly awfully formulaic and simplistic.  She obviously understood the basics of the assignment.  She even made sure to use transition words.  Time4Learning gave her nothing below an A for this schlock because she'd made sure to check all their boxes.  I had her stop taking the class - didn't want her being rewarded for this kind of "writing"!

 

I've been grasping around at straws for what to do - hired a tutor last year to run a small class with a few of her friends; this year she's been taking on online class.  These have not been perfect, but having peers that see her writing (and she theirs) is good for her because the above "writing" would be to embarrassing to share.  Outside deadlines and someone else to turn them in to also helps a lot, but only if they have high standards (so, not Time4Learning...)  She can absolutely write well when her feet are held to the fire.  From the sample you sent, I'd bet your son is quite capable of writing something quite good, he just doesn't want to do the assignment, so he drags his feet and puts the absolute minimum down but somehow still fulfills the basic outline of what he's supposed to do.  Well, at least that's my dd.  :rolleyes:  If only she put half of this cleverness to work on doing the actual assignment instead of thinking about how to best get out of it...  :banghead: 

 

It's great your ds likes to read so much.  My dd is like this with reading too.  She can do it just fine, but I have to assign it and make sure she actually does it, or she won't.

[Dolphin]

We just started IEW SWIB with my 6th grade son. It is a DVD that you sit and watch together while he does the assignment. My son LOVED it. This guy is great for boys to listen to. My son was laughing and really enjoying writing. I am going to use it as a carrot. We are doing 1 week of WWS, followed by 1 lesson (about 2 weeks) of SWIB.

 

Institute for excellence in writing. Student writing intensive level b. 

 

You don't need the whole expensive DVD program if you go this route.

 

[Tmhearn]

I hate to tell you this, but that was seriously awesome! Ha ha ha! The kid obviously has a knack for writing. You are gonna laugh at this one day when he's a writer for The New Yorker or Rolling Stone. ;-)

 

As others have mentioned, he really did seem to understand what he was doing. He just didn't feel like doing it. He had good transitions. His third point got away from him a bit. Ha ha!

 

This seems like an acceptable rough draft. Can you edit and give it back for revisions? Does he have a rubric ahead of time so he knows what to look for?

[bookoverflow]

As a private writing teacher/tutor, I find that many students who demonstrate negative attitudes at home about writing tend to change their tone and formality, as well as improve their content, once they have an outside audience for their work besides Mom or Dad.

 

You may want to look into a writing tutor in your area or on-line who can work with your son on one or two writing assignments this semester - brief literary analyses or biographical sketches about figures in history he's studying or a simple science report.  An outside voice for his work may help him adjust his writing for a real audience.

 

When mom and son are tense about the writing dynamic, it's nice to change the rhetorical situation and audience enough that he can have a fresh start.

 

If you're not in a position to get any outside help, you might find WWS 1 a great fit.  The writing assignments are logical and sequential, and the reading selections hold the student's interest.  There's enough room for creativity while also learning about forms of writing.

 

 

 

 

*************************************

www.knightwritingresources.com

 

 

 

 

[Walking-Iris]

LOL Seems to me he told you in his essay what he needs!!!!

 

Some food! Some water! Less distractions! And maybe ditch the BJU, he is obviously bored with it.

 

I'm going to paraphrase Bravewriter's writing process to you in case it may be helpful:

 

Week One: pick a topic. Try not to bore him with assignments, but talk and research and narrow done a writing assignment to find an angle interesting to him. 

 

Week Two: research and rough draft. Teach him how to use various topic graphic organizers to get his ideas and thoughts in order, use outlines etc. 

 

Week Three: Revise. Spelling, grammar, choice of words, improve sentence structure, rearrange, and so on.

 

Week Four: type or hand write neatly the final product, share and enjoy.

 

OR you might look into something like WWS. I've been having my ds Bravewriter write for a few years now, but I plan on gearing up for WWS. But regardless of what you use it's a good idea to break assignments into chunks and learn how to organize ideas, write, revise, finish. And do not bore them with pointless assignments!

 

 

 

 

[kbutton]

LOL Seems to me he told you in his essay what he needs!!!!

 

Some food! Some water! Less distractions! And maybe ditch the BJU, he is obviously bored with it.

 

I'm going to paraphrase Bravewriter's writing process to you in case it may be helpful:

 

Week One: pick a topic. Try not to bore him with assignments, but talk and research and narrow done a writing assignment to find an angle interesting to him. 

 

Week Two: research and rough draft. Teach him how to use various topic graphic organizers to get his ideas and thoughts in order, use outlines etc. 

 

Week Three: Revise. Spelling, grammar, choice of words, improve sentence structure, rearrange, and so on.

 

Week Four: type or hand write neatly the final product, share and enjoy.

 

OR you might look into something like WWS. I've been having my ds Bravewriter write for a few years now, but I plan on gearing up for WWS. But regardless of what you use it's a good idea to break assignments into chunks and learn how to organize ideas, write, revise, finish. And do not bore them with pointless assignments!

 

Thanks for the Bravewriter summary. I really need to get my hands on material first person, but this process is kind of what I'm doing with my son. I wouldn't mind a more formal program if I could tolerate the structure of it, and this sounds doable.

 

[Walking-Iris]

Thanks for the Bravewriter summary. I really need to get my hands on material first person, but this process is kind of what I'm doing with my son. I wouldn't mind a more formal program if I could tolerate the structure of it, and this sounds doable.

 

 

Bravewriter isn't formal or structured, it's a lifestyle routine. I would spend a lot of time with the website and looking at samples before deciding. 

 

http://www.bravewriter.com/

[Crimson Wife]

{{{hugs}}} I've got a smart alecky 6th grader who can write perfectly well when she chooses to, but getting her to actually do so in response to an assigned prompt is like herding cats.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I am torn on to whether I should sit down with him and put more effort in, or back off and give him more time. Basically, everything is great from grammar to spelling to handwriting. But when it comes to writing an assignment, he makes little effort.

 

So what would you do? Let him spend his time doing tons of reading and sticking with just the story starters for now? Or, sit down and get serious about making him do his formal writing assignments better?

 

I would sit down with this kid and get serious. I would have fun with him while getting serious, but I think 6th grade is old enough for serious writing instruction. Writing is a big priority here. I blend lots of things, but mostly I am in there with them, teaching, monitoring, correcting, suggesting, praising, red (or green, or purple...) penning work for revision... One of my true loves has always been Brave Writer. I don't use any BW curriculum, but I do use ideas, philosophy, and rhythm. I think his resistance and output indicate that he could benefit from some Partnership Writing. Listen to the podcast linked on this page. 

 

My 5th grader turned in his final draft for an assigned persuasive writing paper on Friday. I worked with him. I helped him refine his initial outline. I made an outline for my own persuasive writing topic and began to flesh it out while he watched. He watched me cut and paste, rephrase, click on words for the thesaurus, etc. He watched me do it. Then he took the keyboard and followed my model. I gave him input, then walked away, telling him to let me know if he needed me. He did a fair job, and when he was stuck, I gave him input. I was his partner, and he really enjoyed and benefitted from the collaboration. What he initially would have returned to me was C work. What he turned in on Friday, after much input and many tweaks, was A work. 

 

Also, consider giving him a rubric to check his own form and progress. 

 

He got to pick his own topic....this is supposed to be a persuasive paper...

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

This is why I shouldn't have to write this essay. For one, I don't know how to write Introductions. These 3 reasons also contribute.

 

1st of all, I already did this essay in the form of "Why we should have dessert after dinner every night." Maybe that's why I am such a butterball. Another reason could be because of my next reason.

 

Sehcunduval GIMME SOMETHING TO EAT!! <angry face> I'm pretty hungry and that's sure if helping me concetrate. SARCASM! Butt, apparently, that isn't as funny as whtever <lowercase brother name> (lowercase G'ed!) is cackling at.

 

Third of all, <brother's name written correctly this time> is in the background. He is playing some youtube video and is laughing at it a ton.

 

NOW you see why I don't wanna do this, this, THING! The red button, the "substantials" (I'm getting pretty thirsty too), and the background music. Whew! I absolutly refuse to write this paper! Wait...Wait a second....I just did this paper, didn't I!?! Rrrrrrr........

 

 

___________________________________________________

 

Ok..that was the paper....spelling and punctuation and all. And it was done over 3 days, where we never starved him or kept him from drinking. I do not mind that he is writing about why he should not have to write the paper. But as you can see, there is a lot more wrong with the paper than the topic.

 

And after he finishes his persuasive writing assignment, I would give him a parody assignment. :D