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When should ds expect his PSAT score?


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We got one score but not the other. And I learned that I need to not overemphasized the results with the kids. Score went up in one area and down in others. But it may prove to be a spark to actually study some before the junior year test.

 

I did notice while comparing the scores that the reading section had a different distribution of question categories. That surprised me.

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Yay! My ds got his scores yesterday in the mail despite the ice storm! We are thrilled...he scored well over any cutoff on his sophomore "baseline" PSAT. Perfect score in math! It'll be hard to convince him next year to do a bit of practice/review for the real thing, but he is going to have to...we are counting heavily on NMF for one particular college choice.

 

So excited! :-)

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Congratulations to all the future commended and semi-finalists! Great to here the happy news  :hurray:

Ds got his score today here in SoCal. Probably commended (?) but alas, several points below California's average cut-off for semi-finalists.

On the bright side, it was an improvement from last year at least, and he doesn't seem too crushed. And now I can stop obsessing about the mail and get on with life!!

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Scores arrived in Indiana yesterday.  I realized as I was trying to explain how the process works to my husband and son that I didn't truly understand whether each state's cut-off would put a student in the commended, semi-finalist, or whatever category.  My son is just a sophomore, so this was just a dry run for us -- though I was thrilled with his scores (well above our state cut-off, much to my surprise).

 

Another question ...  My humanities-oriented son, in a particularly unaware moment, checked Student Search Service, but said he was interested in philosophy.  Even though my husband and I have been telling him he would need to declare interest in a STEM field in order to attract scholarship money at selective schools, he clearly has not been listening.  Does the College Board actually release PSAT scores or just SAT scores?  I'm guessing that if he receives any mail at all from schools, it will be because they are truly interested in him (and that would have to be because of his scores).

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Another question ...  My humanities-oriented son, in a particularly unaware moment, checked Student Search Service, but said he was interested in philosophy.  Even though my husband and I have been telling him he would need to declare interest in a STEM field in order to attract scholarship money at selective schools, he clearly has not been listening.  Does the College Board actually release PSAT scores or just SAT scores?  I'm guessing that if he receives any mail at all from schools, it will be because they are truly interested in him (and that would have to be because of his scores).

 

He will get mail from tons of schools based upon his scores.  It won't really matter what he selected for a major as schools know kids, at this age, often don't know.

 

He does NOT need to declare a STEM field on this test to get info (or scholarships) from STEM colleges.  The fact that he scored over commended will (most likely) have all the top schools sending him info.  Be sure you don't fall into the trap of thinking that means he's going to be easily accepted at them - that's incredibly not true.  They need to "recruit" all their rejections as much as all their acceptances.  Schools a little below the top level are likely to be in the safety - or at least match - range though. 

 

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He will get mail from tons of schools based upon his scores.  It won't really matter what he selected for a major as schools know kids, at this age, often don't know.

 

He does NOT need to declare a STEM field on this test to get info (or scholarships) from STEM colleges.  The fact that he scored over commended will (most likely) have all the top schools sending him info.  Be sure you don't fall into the trap of thinking that means he's going to be easily accepted at them - that's incredibly not true.  They need to "recruit" all their rejections as much as all their acceptances.  Schools a little below the top level are likely to be in the safety - or at least match - range though. 

 

 

Thank you, creekland!  Very helpful. 

 

It's hypothetical anyway since he is only a sophomore, but how does one predict the likelihood of being commended vs. semi-finalist vs. finalist, etc.?  Our state has a cut-off this year of 215, and his score was 222.  Our real concern is less about acceptance and more about getting aid (not loans though) at selective schools.  I do realize how incredibly competitive it is out there, but I am hoping that by getting some attention from schools outside of his home state, he will be willing to think a little more ambitiously and believe in his own abilities a little more.

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Thank you, creekland! Very helpful.

 

It's hypothetical anyway since he is only a sophomore, but how does one predict the likelihood of being commended vs. semi-finalist vs. finalist, etc.? Our state has a cut-off this year of 215, and his score was 222. Our real concern is less about acceptance and more about getting aid (not loans though) at selective schools. I do realize how incredibly competitive it is out there, but I am hoping that by getting some attention from schools outside of his home state, he will be willing to think a little more ambitiously and believe in his own abilities a little more.

With a 222 as a Sophomore, I am guessing you are (reasonably, given his proven talent) talking about the elite selective schools, as those numbers are very high and put him in position to even get perfect or near perfect test scores when his time comes. So, I am interpreting selective as very selective, top tier . . . Schools where his stats (say 2300+ sat) would put him in the top 10-30% but not the top 1-2% . . .

 

So far as I can tell, the vast majority of those very selective schools do not give any substantial merit aid. At all. :( With a 222 as a Sophomore, he should comfortably make NMF next year unless he just has a terrible day. NMF and other high stats can help get admittance to selective schools, but merit aid is very rare at selective schools, and the most selective seem to all have firm policies against ever giving any merit aid at all! You might get a few thousand dollars from the national NM corp or from a corporate NM scholarship, though, but not big bucks.

 

Now, there are a few merit scholarships at some of the highly selective schools, but they are typically one or two competitive scholarships per year, and that is with a sea of dozens or hundreds of equally high scoring applicants, so no assurances whatsoever.

 

:(

 

Sorry to be a downer, and I hope someone shows me how wrong I am. (Please someone!) I am just one year ahead of you on the college search bus, and I have been sadly accepting that the most elite schools are simply not an option for my kids because they offer zero merit aid, and we cannot afford them without it.

 

That said, there are some very nice liberal arts colleges and second tier moderately selective universities that do offer substantial merit aid, just not huge or full ride packages for the most part (although there are some that come close and are definitely substantial). And of course, some of the next tier of not selective universities and colleges can offer excellent merit aid.

 

In any event, congrats on your son doing so well!!! Good things will be in his future, for sure!

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So far as I can tell, the vast majority of those very selective schools do not give any substantial merit aid. At all. :(

 

The tippy top schools (Ivies and equivalent) do not give merit aid, but can be super good with need-based aid - above and beyond what typical schools offer for need based aid.  Some of the other top schools do offer competitive scholarships - and someone wins those - but yes, they are quite competitive.  It's worth a shot.

 

Schools starting around #20 to #50 also tend to have competitive scholarships that are worth a shot if the school fits.

 

Schools starting around #50 often offer nice merit aid (but again, not always - some schools do not offer full rides at all).

 

One has to look at each school individually - and make sure the "fit" works for the student.  There are many nice schools out there.  There are probably 50 that could be Top 10 IMO and more than that if one looks at certain specifics (majors, etc).  Many majors have totally different Top 10 lists than the basic USNews list.

 

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What does it mean when some people say that they were commended?  I didn't see anything about that on the paper?  

 

Jean, I haven't had a student take the PSAT in 5 years, so I don't know exactly what the paper says.  But if you scroll down to the charts here, you will see that Commended has hovered around 200 for a long time - it appears it rose to 203 in the last year.  

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So far as I can tell, the vast majority of those very selective schools do not give any substantial merit aid.

 

Sorry to be a downer, and I hope someone shows me how wrong I am. (Please someone!) I am just one year ahead of you on the college search bus, and I have been sadly accepting that the most elite schools are simply not an option for my kids because they offer zero merit aid, and we cannot afford them without it.

 

It is true that they do not offer merit aid (the merit is required for simply getting admitted), but some of the very top schools offer the most generous need based aid. At Princeton, for example, tuition and room&board are free if your family income is below 65k, and it very slowly goes up after that. It would be a lot cheaper for my student to go there than to an out of state public.

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We're still waiting here in NoVA.  Well, not totally--my 9th grader got his scores yesterday, but my 11th grader still doesn't have his!  And we're heading of to Great Wolf Lodge for 2 days now!  Oh well--I hope the results are worth waiting for, although I doubt it, with VA being such a high cut-off state, LOL.

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It is true that they do not offer merit aid (the merit is required for simply getting admitted), but some of the very top schools offer the most generous need based aid. At Princeton, for example, tuition and room&board are free if your family income is below 65k, and it very slowly goes up after that. It would be a lot cheaper for my student to go there than to an out of state public.

 

Yes, I get that the elite schools are AMAZING with need-based aid. However, we won't qualify for any need-based-aid. But, we can't afford our EFC either. Thus, my obsession with merit aid to broaden the options beyond our mediocre (but local and affordable) state uni.

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Sorry to be a downer, and I hope someone shows me how wrong I am. (Please someone!) I am just one year ahead of you on the college search bus, and I have been sadly accepting that the most elite schools are simply not an option for my kids because they offer zero merit aid, and we cannot afford them without it.

 

 

What you are saying is true, BUT -- the most selective schools give very generous need-based aid to families that are solidly middle class.  My kids got their best offers from Harvard and Princeton -- even better than the merit aid they got other places as NMFs.

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What you are saying is true, BUT -- the most selective schools give very generous need-based aid to families that are solidly middle class.  My kids got their best offers from Harvard and Princeton -- even better than the merit aid they got other places as NMFs.

 

yes, I know. I am very happy for all who can choose those schools, and that is wonderful. 

 

The EFC calculations just make it impossible for some families to consider those schools, though.

 

For instance, 

 

Say a family works very hard, does tons of education, has a small passel of kids, and goes into great educational and business debt to have a small business.

 

Say these parents are now in their late 40s, still working hard and smart, and after many years of forward progress on their mountain of "smart debt", still owe 200k or so in their own educational debt, still owe 500k or so in business debt, and are just now beginning to earn 250k/yr (while working very hard and taking great risks, as a small business owner).

 

This high income now knocks them out of every tax break known to man, and repaying all those business and educational debts are done with after-tax money, so that 250k/yr still feels an awful lot like the 80-100k/yr they earned a few years back. Not to mention raising a passle of very expensive kids. This family has saved exactly $0 for retirement b/c they are busy paying off those educational and business debts, and they will remain busy doing that for at least another decade, by which time they'll be well into their 50s, and might want to consider saving a few dollars for retirement . . .

 

So, anyway, this family has the same EFC (65k/yr, per year) as a family that earns 250k/yr but had all their education and business start up funds gifted by wealthy family. (Educational debts are not considered in EFC calculations, which I find very ironic . . .)

 

Similarly, if that first family above had planned smart and had triplets instead of recklessly spacing their children out in 4 year increments . . . Well, the family that had triplets would be expected to pay 65k/yr for the entire three kids, and Harvard would pick up the remaining 130k/yr (assuming 65k/yr per kid)! Woohoo! Bonus! But, no, that silly family that didn't invest smartly in fertility drugs but instead cavalierly had their kids one by one, spaced out every 4 years, well, that silly family will have to pay 65k/yr for TWELVE years instead! Ha!! Not smart!

 

So, anyway, I am glad that many folks are able to go to any school they wish, but it doesn't work that way for every family. The whole system is pretty crazy, IMHO, but there are many good schools and great educations to be made. . . 

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So, anyway, I am glad that many folks are able to go to any school they wish, but it doesn't work that way for every family. The whole system is pretty crazy, IMHO, but there are many good schools and great educations to be made. . . 

I'm definitely suggesting you keep your safeties, but would also suggest you let your kids try a school or two of their choice KNOWING they can't go if it doesn't prove affordable.  Top schools tend to be CSS schools (not just FAFSA) and can be rather generous once they knew the whole situation behind things.  You will have a chance to explain - some on the original app - some on a specific appeal.  It may, or may not, work, but if your kids have a school or two that they would like to try - there's no harm in trying it.  You've got top kids coming from what is likely an under-represented state...  In that light, definitely have them try competitive scholarships too if a school they like has them.

 

I will note that we stuck with schools offering merit aid and have no regrets, but my guys were perfectly happy with that.  My concern was that we would qualify for need-based aid at first, but pending a change in the economy, that aid could disappear whereas merit aid does not (pending keeping a GPA). 

 

Each family is different with their needs/wants/abilities/whatever, but there are MANY good schools to choose from.

 

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With a 222 as a Sophomore, I am guessing you are (reasonably, given his proven talent) talking about the elite selective schools, as those numbers are very high and put him in position to even get perfect or near perfect test scores when his time comes. So, I am interpreting selective as very selective, top tier . . . Schools where his stats (say 2300+ sat) would put him in the top 10-30% but not the top 1-2% . . .

 

 

Thanks to all of you for your many helpful comments and insights!

 

We're really unsure as to which direction this child should go.  His passion is really for writing, but his father (history professor who formerly taught at an Ivy) feels that he just won't get enough aid in this area, not to mention he'll having trouble supporting himself.  We would certainly qualify for need-based aid, but don't want to take out loans of any significant size.  Ds should have no trouble getting into our good state university (Indiana), but my instinct is that he might find a better fit at a smaller liberal arts college.  (His father and I both went to Oberlin.)  Maybe we just need to have him apply to a range of schools and see what the aid packages look like. 

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Maybe we just need to have him apply to a range of schools and see what the aid packages look like. 

 

This... find a range he likes and see what happens.  There are some schools that are "no loan," but of course, they get to decide how much "need" is there.

 

For my middle son, the most expensive (sticker price) school on his list turned out to be the least expensive after we got the aid packages in.  The difference in our cost between highest and lowest was about 30K for one year.

 

YMMV

 

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Thanks to all of you for your many helpful comments and insights!

 

We're really unsure as to which direction this child should go.  His passion is really for writing, but his father (history professor who formerly taught at an Ivy) feels that he just won't get enough aid in this area, not to mention he'll having trouble supporting himself.  We would certainly qualify for need-based aid, but don't want to take out loans of any significant size.  Ds should have no trouble getting into our good state university (Indiana), but my instinct is that he might find a better fit at a smaller liberal arts college.  (His father and I both went to Oberlin.)  Maybe we just need to have him apply to a range of schools and see what the aid packages look like. 

 

There are definitely some substantial merit scholarships at some very good smaller LAC. Check out the College Confidential threads on merit aid, and once you have dug around some there, start your own thread(s) describing your son's stats and seeking suggestions for LACs to consider.

 

Some of them are at least full tuition, and a rare one is closer to full ride, but if you can afford room/board/misc if he gets a full tuition scholarship, then there are quite a few great schools that offer SOME competitive merit-based full tuition (or rarely, even more) scholarships. He'll be NMF for nearly certain, which is truly a big help. (I was in your position with my dd who just got her presumed-definitely-NMF-qualifying scores last week), and so I'd done loads of homework already on this topic.

 

Your position actually sounds similar to ours, and the great thing about the NMF type money (and some other merit aid based purely on SAT scores) is that you can then choose safety schools that will be pretty much full-ride (or nearly so) based on guaranteed NMF scholarships. (U. Alabama, UT-Dallas, U. Ky, U. Ok,, U. Idaho, etc.) . . . So, if you can find one or two of these schools that would be nearly free that you and your child would actually be excited to attend, then it can become a great option. (Look at honors programs, etc. Being a big fish in a small sea can have some serious advantages in mentoring, research/honors/travel opportunities, co-ops, etc. . . .)

 

Then you can look at other more selective schools (LACs, smaller universities, private universities, etc) that offer some great competitive merit aid for more match schools, and if your son gets a competitive scholarship at those schools, then you have more choices!

 

Meanwhile, if desired, you can add a couple reach schools (Ivies, others that don't technically offer merit aid) and hope for the best. For us, if one of our kids had their heart set on applying to a reach/Ivy school, then I am not going to stop them from applying, but I am making it very clear from the outset that we have 0 expectation of there being any financial aid that makes it feasible, and that Dad and I have a firm max budget per year, per kid (they know the number), and that we will not enable our kids to go into debt for undergrad AT ALL, so, as far as we know, there is near zero possibility of those reaches being feasible.

 

It's a complicated process, for sure! Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!! Good luck, and congrats on your son having such great scores!

 

FWIW, so far as I can tell, merit aid is not often tied to major. There are occasional bonuses/extras that are tied to major, but most of the big $ that I've seen is not tied to major. (For instance, U. Alabama gives their big NMF $ to anyone who is a NMF, and the engineering dept adds $2500/yr for engineering majors. So, you might get 120-150k in NMF money for ANY major, plus another 10k if you happen to be an engineering major. I'd not sniff at another 10k, but I definitely wouldn't want my kid to change majors for it!)

 

The competitive merit scholarships at the more selective schools generally work more like you'd think of Ivy admission -- cut offs based on stats, then intensive applications involving essays, extra-curriculars, recommendations, etc, and often interviews for the finalists. I'd guess that your son will be very strong on those, so he may have a great shot at some of those. I'd polish up his extra-curricular resume this year and next (volunteer work? leadership? passion?) if there is any weakness there, but I'd guess he'd do great on everything else since his writing skills should make the application process easier for him than a typical STEM applicant. 

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Would it be bad if I opened it without ds?  His just arrived in the mail, but he won't be home for another 20 minutes!  :toetap05:  He's a junior this year, so this is making me nervous.

 

Nope, not bad at all! Heck, that's the intention, isn't it? They mail them to guidance counselors, after all. "Normal" school kids have to wait until their GC gets around to notifying the kid, sometimes as late as January!

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Nope, not bad at all! Heck, that's the intention, isn't it? They mail them to guidance counselors, after all. "Normal" school kids have to wait until their GC gets around to notifying the kid, sometimes as late as January!

 

And this is infuriating to me!  My daughter learned today that her school has the scores in their hot little hands and will not distribute them until next semester some time.  The scores do not belong to them; they belong to my daughter and her classmates.  Idiots.

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And this is infuriating to me!  My daughter learned today that her school has the scores in their hot little hands and will not distribute them until next semester some time.  The scores do not belong to them; they belong to my daughter and her classmates.  Idiots.

I always liked that I had an "in" with the GC when youngest was in school - otherwise - I'd be right with you.  I did have to wait once while they unpacked them...

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Lisa - I'm still waiting too.  Where are they mailed from?  Is it just farther to get here to the NW?

 

Last I checked, I didn't see anyone on College Confidential that was on the west coast and had received their scores. I am rather anxious as I seem to spend a good deal of time worrying about whether or not we are where we need to be and outside validation is helpful.

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We are still waiting in PA-- and we are right outside of Princeton where they are mailed from! I called collegeboard today, and I was told that it was "still processing" and to start looking for it MAYBE by the end of next week. The waiting is killing me, but it looks like it's going to be a while!

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I always liked that I had an "in" with the GC when youngest was in school - otherwise - I'd be right with you.  I did have to wait once while they unpacked them...

 

I am thinking of threatening them with having her not put their school code on the PSAT or SAT in future takings so that they won't get the credit for her scores.  I have already subtly threatened to pull her out right before graduation and give her a homeschool diploma if they won't give her credit for world history she took in middle school (it is permissible under their guidelines to do so--they've so far just said "no").  But maybe I'll just point out that the s'mores kits I am making for the teachers' cookie spread next week could include store bought marshmallows and graham crackers instead of the fantastically delicious homemade versions I had planned to send...

 

I am such a bad school parent.

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Ds's came yesterday. He did well (as a sophomore) but it's unlikely he'll reach the NJ number next year.

On the bright side, I've always worried he'd tank the writing portion. He scored in the 97th percentile! I think I can lighten up a little bit on my dds if my perspective is THAT far off, lol! So, they win!

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Last I checked, I didn't see anyone on College Confidential that was on the west coast and had received their scores. I am rather anxious as I seem to spend a good deal of time worrying about whether or not we are where we need to be and outside validation is helpful.

We got ours here in AZ on Monday, but dd took them out of state when we were travelling. I'm beginning to think they are processed and mailed in batches on different dates.

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Ds's scores actually went down since last year.  They were respectable, but nowhere near the cutoff.  He refused to study and says he's not going to college.  This one will definitely have to learn from the school of hard knocks.  :glare:

 

:grouphug:  So... what does he like doing?  There are other "successful" paths that do not include traditional college.  Does he have a plan?  Can he do any shadowing of jobs he thinks he might like?  I've seen many kids get motivated to do things if they find a job/goal they are heading toward.  Sometimes that's college.  Other times that can be 2 year schools, certificate programs, military, etc.

 

I've also seen some get motivated because they found they really didn't like what they thought they would like.  This can happen before or after graduation.

 

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I am thinking of threatening them with having her not put their school code on the PSAT or SAT in future takings so that they won't get the credit for her scores.  I have already subtly threatened to pull her out right before graduation and give her a homeschool diploma if they won't give her credit for world history she took in middle school (it is permissible under their guidelines to do so--they've so far just said "no").  But maybe I'll just point out that the s'mores kits I am making for the teachers' cookie spread next week could include store bought marshmallows and graham crackers instead of the fantastically delicious homemade versions I had planned to send...

 

I am such a bad school parent.

 

Is it bad form to quote myself?  Probably.

 

The school continues, despite my polite pestering, to refuse to budge.  They insist to me and my daughter that they are not "sitting" on the results.  They have them, they are not distributing them.  I don't know, but that looks like sitting on 'em to me.  And yeah, I did say she would just use the homeschool code on her PSAT and SAT in the future.  This is not a high-performing school overall, but they have a group of 90'ish magnet kids that carry their academic stats every year.  So, they won't get credit for this one, who is ranked #1 in her class and is a shoo-in for NM (228 as a freshman).  I have not, however, invoked the nuclear option (i.e., store-bought marshmallows), but believe me--those marshmallows will not be made in love.

 

Congrats to everyone who has their results and is happy with them.  So glad to hear of good news generally.

 

And yes, I realize that I am overreacting, but I do that when people say "no" just because they can.  Sorry--just a known flaw in my moral fiber.

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And yes, I realize that I am overreacting, but I do that when people say "no" just because they can.  Sorry--just a known flaw in my moral fiber.

 

If it's over-reacting and a flaw in moral character, then I share that flaw with you...  It takes a lot to get me angry, but that sort of thing will do it.

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Plansrme --- any chance you can wrangle the code out of them, if not the scores?

 

Oh, I tried!  I definitely tried.  What I got for my troubles was an outright threat to kick my daughter out of the program.   I don't know why I am surprised--certainly this is not the first time someone has not responded favorably to  my pointing out the fact that there is no logical rationale for their decision.  

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Oh, I tried!  I definitely tried.  What I got for my troubles was an outright threat to kick my daughter out of the program.   I don't know why I am surprised--certainly this is not the first time someone has not responded favorably to  my pointing out the fact that there is no logical rationale for their decision.  

Is the SAT code the same as the PSAT one?  I googled our school's name along with the state and the words PSAT code and got the SAT code.  I wonder what you would find if you did that?

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