question about using AoPS

[Norah]

This is kind of an odd question, but I'm trying to decide what kind of paper/notebook my 9 year old should use for AoPS pre-algebra. I saw a suggestion of blank paper, but my son has a tendency of enlarging his writing if there are no lines. So blank paper isn't the best option for him, at least not currently. The options that I have on hand  are: wide ruled composition book, wide ruled spiral bound notebook, spiral bound graph paper, or a binder with wide ruled paper or graph paper. I'm assuming the wide ruled would be better than the graph paper, but that might not be an accurate assumption. :)

 

What have you guys used? I know several of you have used or are using AoPS, and it looks like a few of you have done so with kids in the 8-10 range. What worked or didn't work for you? Would there be a reason we'd want to add pages as we go that a binder would be better than a self-contained book?

 

I feel silly asking about this, but I don't want to be 20 pages in and then think, "This would have worked so much better if we'd used (fill in the blank). "

 

Thanks!

[boscopup]

We mostly use the white board for AoPS, but if he's working independently without me involved at all (to "watch"), he uses wide ruled paper. You're coming from Saxon. What paper did you use for that? Use what he's comfortable with.

[DoppeltGemoppelt]

I don't use AoPS yet, but I would buy a cm graph book. It is self contained, and your son won't have any problems with the size of his letters. Plus it has the added benefit of keeping all the equations in order and your son will be able to use it for geometrical drawings.

[wapiti]

Sometimes we used a white board but mostly we used a binder with wide-ruled paper for Prealgebra.  For Intro to Algebra, he uses a wide-rule 5-subject notebook, though now I'm shoving folded random pieces of graph paper into the pocket dividers.

[texasmama]

My boys use mostly small white boards.

[MASHomeschooler]

My 8yo just finished Chapter 1, but I went with spiral bound graph paper. It's working well so far, but wide rule would have been fine as well so far. I chose spiral so papers don't get lost or out of order, and graph paper because it can be easier to line things up, plus I'm assuming at some point she will need to graph some things and I don't want to have loose papers to add in. Also, in addition to working the problems in order from the front, I am having her keep a "Reference" section of the properties, etc. that the book highlights - starting from the back. Again, this is working well for us so far, but we are just 1 chapter in.

[Dmmetler]

We use graph paper composition notebooks. Graph paper was a trick that my high school trig teacher (himself dyslexic) taught me-I have visual-spatial learning disabilities, and often got scrambled. I started DD out using graph paper as soon as she stopped using workbooks.

 

 

[ErinE]

DS uses a graph paper composition book. He folds the paper in half and draws a line through the crease. He works through the problems down one column then moves to the next column, drawing a box around the answer and a horizontal line after each completed problem. This way the problems aren't sprawled across the page. It also forces him to show each step in a multi-step problem in an orderly way without wasting lots of paper.

 

We tried ruled notebook paper and he had trouble keeping his work organized and legible.

 

ETA: we opted out of spiral bound as it gets in the way of DS's hand and spiral notebooks tend to get torn up quickly in our house.

[crazyforlatin]

We use this, http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Quad-Wirebound-Notebook-06194/dp/B003VIVX2C/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1385092165&sr=8-7&keywords=Graph+paper, quad wired-bound notebook.

[Norah]

We mostly use the white board for AoPS, but if he's working independently without me involved at all (to "watch"), he uses wide ruled paper. You're coming from Saxon. What paper did you use for that? Use what he's comfortable with.

 

He's been using wide ruled composition books I bought when they were on sale before school started. He barely writes anything down though, does almost all the problems in his head, and is only writing down answers for me to check. I'm assuming he'll finally have to start doing problems on paper when we start AoPS.

[lewelma]

DS uses a graph paper composition book. He folds the paper in half and draws a line through the crease. He works through the problems down one column then moves to the next column, drawing a box around the answer and a horizontal line after each completed problem. This way the problems aren't sprawled across the page. It also forces him to show each step in a multi-step problem in an orderly way without wasting lots of paper.

 

This is exactly what my son does.

[boscopup]

He's been using wide ruled composition books I bought when they were on sale before school started. He barely writes anything down though, does almost all the problems in his head, and is only writing down answers for me to check. I'm assuming he'll finally have to start doing problems on paper when we start AoPS.

Yes, I would encourage him to show his work. Just the other day, my son had a wrong answer, but I was able to look at the work he's done and immediately find the silly calculation error he'd done in the middle of the problem. He fixed that and continued working, getting the correct answer this time.

 

Starting at around 4th grade math, I required my son to show his work. It's a good habit, and it's necessary in the real world. Engineers, computer programmers, scientists... they all have to document/show their work even for what seem like basic things. As a programmer myself, I documented way more than I wrote code. Being able to explain what you're doing is incredibly important. :)

[Luckymama]

Dd switches between using the whiteboard and wireless-bound graph paper notebooks (Is this what you guys are calling a graph paper composition notebook? It's larger than a regular lined composition notebook.)

[regentrude]

We are using graph paper notebooks, the largest size we can find. The cheap ones are a tad small, and the squares are printed too darkly. We prefer the Five Star Mead spiral bound notebooks.

[Dmmetler]

The ones we use are the composition size, so a little smaller. It seems to be easier for DD, who is small herself, to manage, especially along with the big AOPS book. Having said that, she's still at a stage where if she gets 2 problems on a page that's a rare occurrence (or it means that the problems are things that she can do mentally and she's only writing down the minimum). We're still working on numbering problems, keeping steps in order, and drawing a box around the final answer. Not to mention writing numbers so 9s and 0s don't look the same.

 

 

 

 

[Tattarrattat]

If you have a binding machine for homeschool use, maybe consider the option to make your own graph notebook with the grid size you like. I occasionally used Excel to make some loose graph paper before, though I never bound them into a notebook.  Just need to test the line color when you print to make it light enough for background use.

[ErinE]

Dd switches between using the whiteboard and wireless-bound graph paper notebooks (Is this what you guys are calling a graph paper composition notebook? It's larger than a regular lined composition notebook.)

DS's is the size of a composition book and it has a sewn binding.

[acurtis75]

I love that this board always gives me instructions for things I didn't even realize I needed to be thinking about. We will be switching to spiral graph paper and putting squares around answers for both of us .

 

DD's work is often difficult to decipher but I can't blame her because so is mine. I am working through pre-algebra before she starts and had to redo a whole group of problems yesterday because my work was too sloppy.  :huh:

 

 

[ErinE]

I love that this board always gives me instructions for things I didn't even realize I needed to be thinking about. We will be switching to spiral graph paper and putting squares around answers for both of us .

 

DD's work is often difficult to decipher but I can't blame her because so is mine. I am working through pre-algebra before she starts and had to redo a whole group of problems yesterday because my work was too sloppy. :huh:

My DS really dislikes this, but I make him show most every step. He's 11 so I expect more from him than if he was a bit younger. He writes down the problem exactly as shown in the book. Then he writes an equal sign underneath the original problem and does one step. Another equal sign underneath the first step and then he does the next step. He continues this all the way down until the last equal sign is the boxed answer. It may take longer for him to complete a problem, but I want him building good habits for higher levels of math.

 

Right now, he wants to work on pieces of the problem, but I won't accept his work unless he rewrites the whole problem. He's not to a level where working on a portion of the problem is necessary. It's a constant dialogue. I tell him I'm not being mean; it's just that math is going to get more complex and it's easy to lose track of your work unless you are careful in your steps and organization.

 

I do let him skip the "show your work" step for problems easily explained. For example:

 

1/2*2/3*3/4*...*9/10

 

He just wrote down an answer after verbally explaining to me his reasoning.

[acurtis75]

My DS really dislikes this, but I make him show most every step. He's 11 so I expect more from him than if he was a bit younger. He writes down the problem exactly as shown in the book. Then he writes an equal sign underneath the original problem and does one step. Another equal sign underneath the first step and then he does the next step. He continues this all the way down until the last equal sign is the boxed answer. It may take longer for him to complete a problem, but I want him building good habits for higher levels of math.

 

Right now, he wants to work on pieces of the problem, but I won't accept his work unless he rewrites the whole problem. He's not to a level where working on a portion of the problem is necessary. It's a constant dialogue. I tell him I'm not being mean; it's just that math is going to get more complex and it's easy to lose track of your work unless you are careful in your steps and organization.

 

I do let him skip the "show your work" step for problems easily explained. For example:

 

1/2*2/3*3/4*...*9/10

 

He just wrote down an answer after verbally explaining to me his reasoning.

This is similar to what I've been requiring of dd8. If she gets the right answer and can easily explain why/how I don't always require her work to be shown. We are currently in mus pre-algebra so only a few problems per sheet require her to show work. She hates it but I explained that if there is no work shown it is much harder to figure out where the mistake is and that she will have to start problems over from scratch. After having to redo several problems she saw the light.

 

As we move in to AOPs it will require much more writing. Writing in neat lines lined up under equal signs is apparently irritating for her but she's stuck with doing it because getting the right answer is of no use if we can't find it or read it on her page.

[serendipitous journey]

I wanted to toss onto the thread the idea of writing the date in red ink, and also new chapter titles/numbers in red ink with a line underneath, which I got from other boardies.  We've just begun this (in graph Rhodia paper; we crease the middle but are using the right-hand side for "scratch" calculations at the moment and not other problems) and I'm a little worried that we're going to lose all our red pens eventually (we do math all over the house) --  but otherwise I like it very much :)

[EndOfOrdinary]

We do a lot AoPS verbally.  My son is a majorly kinestheic learner, being able to stand and talk with me through the problem set really helps him sort his ideas.  For the exercises - he has to do those individually - we spiral bound notebooks (either wide or college ruled) mainly just to keep the paperwork contained.  Graph paper would melt his brain and be far too cluttered.  Next year we are doing Geometry so it might becomes significantly more useful.  Graph paper can also train kids how to space out problems evenly for legibility if that is an issue.  I've found with my son, the legibility is just a fine motor issue since he is so young that his body hasn't caught up to his brain.

 

As previously, public-school math teacher, showing steps is a big one for me.  He has to write the problem, then each step, then box the answer.  It drives him crazy, but the mental math thing it is an extremely hard habit to break.  Students often don't realize they have skipped steps when they get used to mental math.  That's not a big deal initially, but you get anywhere near complex trig and your world starts to fall apart.  I've hand high school kids in tears of frustration over it.  My Algebra teacher was a Nazi about it and fought me constantly, but I'm very glad he did.

You are right about the complexity of the AoPS problems.  They aren't really harder, per se, than Saxon, just much more complicated so the writing of steps becomes more important so you don't lose your train of thought.  Good Luck!  If you have to rework the wheel, it isn't the end of the world.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

"We use wide ruled paper.  Blank paper strikes me as the most annoying option.  If you like blank you can fold it so you have four boxes on each side.  That way you don't get one problem per page.  I myself tend to write larger and larger as I go along so boxing it off helps."

 

Sparkly Unicorn-

 

 

Thanks for this.... I just got AOPS Pre-Algebra.  Watched a few Alcumus videos yesterday.  I was wondering about the paper too.  We have tons of copy paper we got free in the box.  I only have a little graph paper.  You have solved my paper problem!

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

double post

 

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

If you have a binding machine for homeschool use, maybe consider the option to make your own graph notebook with the grid size you like. I occasionally used Excel to make some loose graph paper before, though I never bound them into a notebook.  Just need to test the line color when you print to make it light enough for background use.

Wow! I will try this too.

[Norah]

Thanks everyone!

 

I think we'll try continuing with the composition books. In part because the sewn binding on them holds everything together better than the spiral notebooks, but also I hadn't thought of the spiral itself getting in the way. We have a stamp we use to add a grid when we need it for plotting points or graphing things, so we can always add a small graph if we need it for a problem. That's what we've been doing so far with saxon 7/6 and it's worked ok.

 

The folding and drawing a line for columns sounds like it's probably a good idea, assuming the problems aren't long enough to need the whole line. That was the one advantage of the spiral notebooks, larger page size. There are usually a lot more pages in the composition books though. So it's not a big deal if we use more pages, and they're cheap at the beginning of the school year with back to school sales. Which is always a bonus. 

 

The idea about boxing in the problems and the answers seems helpful. As does the different colored date and lesson number, especially if you're not starting at the top of the page.

 

We'll be starting AoPS the week after Thanksgiving. I'm both excited and a little scared, but at least now we'll have everything ready.