College visits -- I'm getting cynical!

[Gwen in VA]

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

After umpteen visits to umpteen colleges for four kids, I did my last college visit ever.

 

With my oldest, I went in bright-eyed, prepared to be impressed by the uniqueness of each college and the exciting things that happened there.

 

By this year I feel like I could write the script for the presentations --

 

1) We are small enough so each student is an individual but we provide the opportunities of a large school (or, alternately, we have the resources of a large school but the feel of a small school).

 

2) We have amazing study abroad opportunities.

 

3) Our gen ed requirements help students to leave with a broad background but the classes are exciting so students don't mind the gen eds. (And 70 classes fulfill the X requirement, so your student will have CHOICES!).

 

4) The profs care about your student and will not only be available during office hours but possibly even have the seniors over for pizza some night. Students often invite a prof or two to their wedding.

 

5) Merit scholarships? Of course!....(fuzzy blur into) large percentage of students receive financial aid.

 

6) The students will have FUN!

 

7) Students can design their own majors, though actually (upon further questioning) almost no one ever does.

 

I feel like the prsentations are all produced by some company that prepares college presentations and then the colleges find one or two fun facts to throw in to emphasize their "uniqueness."

 

Is this just me, or are others amazed by the similarities in the presentations? (We have mostly looked at LAC's, but over the years we have visited four large state schools, and their presentations were also surprisingly similar...)

[Harriet Vane]

I'm only on my first kid, but I am cynical already. It's hard to get into the true nitty-gritty of a school. There's a lot of marketing to wade through. Ugh.

[Nan in Mass]

I've installed three in college now.

When you ask about how many students take advantage of those global offerings, you get similarly discouraging statistics.

You forgot the part about innovative, collaborative, project-oriented, research opportunities, and internship opportunties.  And you forgot the part about how many of their students have jobs within a year (a year!?) of graduating.

The websites are all amazingly similar, too.

I suppose one could look at this as good news - all the colleges are great and any one of them would be fine!

If one believed the ads...

[creekland]

I agree that most of the presentations are the same.  They are designed for students/parents who haven't been in the process at all yet.  Couple that with the fact that most colleges do provide similar opportunities (faculty access, study abroad, etc) and they are repetitive.  For our third (and last) we mainly concentrated on the major he wanted and the differences there.  We looked at the rest, of course, but that was more just to figure out what it'd be like if he chose that particular place (dorms, dining halls, etc, can differ).

 

Each kid did seem to like the various presentations even though they went to most of the school visits for their older brothers.  I think the difference was that this was "their" chance at making the decision whether they liked a place or not.  I tried not to be pessimistic about the presentations for that reason.

[MysteryJen]

My son thinks the same tree is used in all the marketing materials.

 

Even though it is really hard to visit schools, sometimes just being there can help them see themselves there. On paper and in the presentations, they do all seem identical.

[regentrude]

My DD's college visits painted very different pictures of the three schools she visited. She came away with an understanding of the very distinct characteristics of each institution. Of course, there will be similar buzzwords in the official admissions presentation, but there is much more information between the lines.

[8filltheheart]

I agree when it comes to the general campus tours you can schedule online.   We learned early on that departmental meetings give us the most info.   When our oldest ds met with one of the professors in the chemE dept and spent an hour discussing the program with him, took him on a tour of the undergrad labs, introduced him other students, etc, ds fell in love with the school.   He ended up doing research for that professor and attending an international symposium with him.

 

Our current ds is doing the same.   Arranging for dept meetings.   They tend to be revealing.  

 

Campus tours, otoh, tend only to show how students congregate and what dorm rooms look like. :glare:

[Jane in NC]

My son expressed an interested in Dickinson College in 10th grade so we viewed that as a great excuse for a first college visit.  We went back after 11th grade in order for my son to meet an archaeologist there and tour their amazing archaeology lab.  But on both visits we did the campus tour with a student.  On our first campus tour, we were the only visitors--and our guide was a Classics/Archaeology person.  So the entire tour was shaped by the discussion that she and my son had. Our second tour was with a group and led by a very different sort of student--an athlete and a biology major.  It was almost as though we were seeing a different school through her eyes.

 

Frankly I found the student tours to be revealing.  We scratched one prominent LAC off the list after hearing our guide's snobbery toward townies. 

 

But I agree that meeting with faculty is the most revealing as well as touring facilities used by students in the field of interest.  For example, my son loved seeing how students utilize the Anthropology Museum at Beloit College.

 

 

[Nan in Mass]

There were some things that showed up in the tour of youngest's college - how MANY advisors the freshman have, the academic structure (different from the usual 4.0/semester system), problems with housing ("freshman are usually in triples" and "upper classmen CAN get housing if they want it"... lol...), open workshops, the sheer quantity of visible student projects (always with the phrase "working in groups here is not like working in groups in high school" tacked on), the large Greek presence (with "but they are different here"), foreign professors ("you can understand OUR foreig professors"), the general happiness and friendliness of the students. That was rather different from the UMass tour, which sounded exactly like Gwen's list with the addition of rather a lot of information about the theme housing and how un-dread-worthy the freshman comp requirement really is and the 24hr. student writing center. I'm beginning to suspect that the student tour guides were less muzzled at youngest's.

 

How may of you have had campus tours where the tour guide reassures one that it isn't that hard to get into the school, after all, they got in? We ran into that a few times.

 

Nan

[Brenda in MA]

Gwen,

 

I agree that the presentations are all pretty much the same. This means that to find out what is really going on at that school, you have to dig deeper, as most of us do by making appointments with professors, sitting in on classes, and observing & questioning current students.

 

I think it's also true that at a good number of colleges, the experience is what the student makes of it. If he/she is passive and just attends class and goes through the motions, he/she will have a much different experience than a student who goes to prof's office hours and/or actively seeks a relationship with his/her instructors.

 

Brenda

[Brenda in MA]

My DD's college visits painted very different pictures of the three schools she visited. She came away with an understanding of the very distinct characteristics of each institution. Of course, there will be similar buzzwords in the official admissions presentation, but there is much more information between the lines.

But I'm guessing that you did more than just attend the canned admissions dept talk when you visited.

 

I wonder how many folks (and I bet it's a small number) take the initiative to do more than just the admissions talk and tour. We were at one place last spring in Washington DC and were amazed at how many of the other visitors said they were visiting 1 or 2 other nearby schools that same day. I couldn't help but think how they could learn what they needed to know in such a short visit.

 

Sometimes a short visit is all you can fit in, but a longer, more specialized one is so much more informative.

 

Brenda

[Brenda in MA]

How may of you have had campus tours where the tour guide reassures one that it isn't that hard to get into the school, after all, they got in? We ran into that a few times.

 

Nan

We never encountered that one, but we did spend the better part of one tour hearing from the guide how the school's liberal arts core "wasn't really so bad" and that if you suffer through the 4 required history courses, it's smooth sailing after that. Add to that tidbit that half of the tour was spent looking at the new athletic fields, and the hall of fame for their past athletes, and my son decided this school wasn't for him.

 

Brenda

[Jane in NC]

But I'm guessing that you did more than just attend the canned admissions dept talk when you visited.

 

I wonder how many folks (and I bet it's a small number) take the initiative to do more than just the admissions talk and tour. We were at one place last spring in Washington DC and were amazed at how many of the other visitors said tthey were visiting 1 or 2 other nearby schools that same day. I couldn't help but think how they could learn what they needed to know in such a short visit.

 

Sometimes a short visit is all you can fit in, but a longer, more specialized one is so much more informative.

 

Brenda

 

Yes!  I remember peeling off from a campus tour to meet up with a faculty member with whom my son had an appointment.  Parents said, "You can do that?" 

[creekland]

Yes!  I remember peeling off from a campus tour to meet up with a faculty member with whom my son had an appointment.  Parents said, "You can do that?" 

 

We had that happen too, both what we did and the reaction from others.

 

Everyone you meet (students/parents) will tell you that the school you're visiting has a "great program in ______."  It's only by digging and comparing that we decide which programs truly are great based upon what they offer and the student's fit.  I like to know where recent grads have gone, both employment and/or grad/prof school.  I like to know what classes are offered and/or required (in the major).  I like to know what sort of set up they have.

 

My guys can live with almost any dorm room (and similar) set up, so those things are merely a curiosity for us - definitely not a deciding point.

 

[Nan in Mass]

We never encountered that one, but we did spend the better part of one tour hearing from the guide how the school's liberal arts core "wasn't really so bad" and that if you suffer through the 4 required history courses, it's smooth sailing after that. Add to that tidbit that half of the tour was spent looking at the new athletic fields, and the hall of fame for their past athletes, and my son decided this school wasn't for him.

 

Brenda

 

That's funny!  We did get rather a lot of "it isn't as bad as it sounds" from several of the schools we visited.  The tour guides had obviously been told to talk about the worrisome sticky points.  Ironically, the ones that did the most of this were the ones my children picked.

 

The tour guide and other personel at the nearby state school, which we visited just for comparison, were refreshingly down-to-earth.  They said things like, "Yah - the dorms aren't old but at least you can live on campus if you want to" and "You're more likely to stay here if you are on a sports team" and "For a cheap and easy to get into school, we have some pretty good professors".

 

I liked the athletic director who sighed resignedly and said that almost all the students at the school were good athletes but his teams didn't do well because his players all had too much studying.  LOL

 

Nan

[regentrude]

But I'm guessing that you did more than just attend the canned admissions dept talk when you visited.

 

Not for all. At two of the schools, she only took the official tour. But even so, you could see which school puts a lot of emphasis on "fun" and talks about their sports teams, and which emphasize their serious academics and has the student guide tell you about a banner in the library during finals week that says "Sleep is for (rival school in same town) students".

 

I see the purpose of a tour in getting a feeling for the atmosphere. All factual information can be obtained more easily on the school's website. I think this is where many people come to a tour with the wrong expectations.

[creekland]

But even so, you could see which school puts a lot of emphasis on "fun" and talks about their sports teams, and which emphasize their serious academics and has the student guide tell you about a banner in the library during finals week that says "Sleep is for (rival school in same town) students".

 

 

We noticed this too - and it made a big difference in deciding between schools for us.

[JennW in SoCal]

We had a tour with a student athlete who spent the entire tour flirting with a cute "prospie".  At one point I asked about "dry dorms" or "honors dorms" or other euphemisms for where a non-partying, serious student might want to live, the guide and the girl gave us that blank "oh mah gawd, are you totally serious?" stare.  The guide finally said he didn't know and we moved on.  What was priceless, though, were the parents who pulled me aside and said, "What did you mean?  There can't be any drinking in the dorms -- they are all under age!!"  

 

Then there were the bright eyed young female tour guides who were majoring in gender studies and who very earnestly showed us all the recycling bins all over campus.  Or who talked about the alternative music scene and poetry readings.

 

I thought it was fascinating that one school which advertised itself as being proudly alternative and politically active actually had a very nerdy and fairly apolitical student body.  But they wouldn't let me take my camera into the dining hall!

 

The school my son attends had the most friendly student body we ever met.  We finally visited after he was accepted, and the admissions department made a big deal of welcoming him.  The students chatted with him in classes and at lunch.  Jane in NC's son made time in his day to come meet us, which blew my son away.  "Good grief -- I'm just the son of one of his mom's WTM friends. He doesn't know me..."   

 

The school he turned down, the school that had been his number 1 choice all along, in contrast shrugged when we arrived for one last visit.  We were just another family through the admissions door.  One professor was really welcoming, but none of the students took the time to chat, much less to say hi or welcome.  

[Nan in Mass]

Tour guides do have their own agendas... My freshman has a story about tour guides, the moral of which is not to annoy a fellow student who has the power to pick your room to show off when she meets you returning from the showers lol.  The things one learns at college...

[Mom22ns]

Yes!  I remember peeling off from a campus tour to meet up with a faculty member with whom my son had an appointment.  Parents said, "You can do that?" 

 

We had that experience too. There were maybe 20 kids/parents on the tour we were on and only one other kid had made an appointment in their department. The department appointments, seeing what is really available to the students, talking to a professor that they WILL have at some point and who may even be their advisor, it was so valuable. Not only did they tell us what made their department good, they told us how it compared to other colleges with similar degrees in the region. We were then equipped to ask better questions and do more comparisons with each passing visit.

 

The general tour info is the same, no doubt, but how the faculty in the department of interest view their program, their students, their facilities, it can be quite different and very helpful when it comes to finding the best match to your student.

 

That said, both of my kids have done tours already, but neither is in college yet, so maybe I'm just not experienced enough to be cynical :).

[Teachin'Mine]

Colleges with a truly diverse student body have no need to use one photo as proof.  It's usually the ones with anything but diversity which feel the need to include such a photo.  I would count three "token" students in that photo, not one.  But I do agree about the brochures with magnificent trees, and the further north the college is located, the more likely we are to find photos of students hanging out, studying and tossing a frisbee on the quad. lol

 

We've been on few enough visits that despite the typical spiel, each seemed different enough.  They used the info session to try to highlight what made them unique, but the canned tour guide talks were a bit frustrating as they tend to be more about the architecture with little substance.   On some, we saw the inside of very few buildings, got some interesting info, but learned the most when someone asked a good question. 

 

Nan, I think your son's best revenge would be becoming a tour guide himself.   :D

[Bootsie]

DD and her friends joke that they have the speech memorized.  Two more characteristics that are in the list:

 

1)  We have a diverse student body

2)  We have every type of club--and if we don't have the type you want, you can start it.

[Gwen in VA]

We have talked in-depth with people from dd's department, and she is currently receiving emails from profs inquiring if she is or is not applying to their particular school, so we do understand how different schools are and how to scratch the surface to find those differences.

 

I am just amazed at how similarly the colleges present themselves! They seem to believe that the "ideal college" must fit a very narrow definition.

[GailV]

 

I see the purpose of a tour in getting a feeling for the atmosphere. All factual information can be obtained more easily on the school's website. I think this is where many people come to a tour with the wrong expectations.

 

 

Speaking of atmosphere, after one tour my dd commented on the type of graffiti she had noticed -- apparently she's been comparing that during the tours we've taken.  I had no clue this was part of her process for assessing a campus.  :laugh:  (For the record, that campus didn't have graffiti that suggested lots of students interested in nerdy fandoms, and she was disappointed by that.)

[Laura in CA]

The ones that really make me chuckle is the obligatory photo of one black kid, one Hispanic kid, one Asian and the token white kid. I think there's a group that travels from college to college for that photo. :laugh:

 

:)

 

Colleges with a truly diverse student body have no need to use one photo as proof.  It's usually the ones with anything but diversity which feel the need to include such a photo.  I would count three "token" students in that photo, not one. 

 

Yes, we've gotten brochures that the kids and I find amusing -- especially when we then look at the college's actual demographics. Did they rustle up every single underrepresented-minority student to put in the brochure?

 

And yes, the opposite is true elsewhere. We toured several campuses in LA (UCLA, UC Irvine, etc.) at which white students are not even a plurality. This is true of UC Berkeley as well.

 

My son's physics class at a Cal State this quarter has 80 students. He says there is ONE fully Caucasian student in the entire class, and 3 all- or part-white students. The remaining contingents are, in decreasing order of size, Asian, [south Asian, Latino, Middle Eastern],* and black. Although we find the emphasis on "diversity" at universities amusing, it's true that my (part-white) son is so used to this mix now, he would probably feel out of place at a campus that is mostly white ... :)

 

 

* rough order ... these may be about the same amounts. And yes, it's a physics class, but walking around, this is what one sees on the entire campus.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Colleges with a truly diverse student body have no need to use one photo as proof.  It's usually the ones with anything but diversity which feel the need to include such a photo.  I would count three "token" students in that photo, not one.  But I do agree about the brochures with magnificent trees, and the further north the college is located, the more likely we are to find photos of students hanging out, studying and tossing a frisbee on the quad. lol

 

We've been on few enough visits that despite the typical spiel, each seemed different enough.  They used the info session to try to highlight what made them unique, but the canned tour guide talks were a bit frustrating as they tend to be more about the architecture with little substance.   On some, we saw the inside of very few buildings, got some interesting info, but learned the most when someone asked a good question. 

 

Nan, I think your son's best revenge would be becoming a tour guide himself.   :D

 

We did a tour of Virginia Tech about a month ago. The admissions counselor who did the presentation actually started by saying that she wasn't going to speak to the aspects at Tech that were common school to school (study abroad was one example). She did spend a lot of time on student projects, because that is a big part of academic life. The school's motto is Ut Prosim (That I May Serve) and it is something that is emphasized at the school in both campus life and student summer projects. 

 

The tour itself was interesting. There was a lot of talk about dining at VaTech (they have one of the highest ranked dining facilities in the US), but I'm not sure the tour guide realized that he was in part communicating that it's easy to spend through your semester's food money and need to add more to the account (might reflect on the school - might just reflect on this student). The guide spoke frequently about the special interest dorms (engineering, science, women physics students, wellness, etc).

 

The other interesting note was the dorm we were shown. It seemed to be a model dorm, with beds made and photos on the wall, but no one living there. It was far older and far smaller than the dorm we saw at WVU (which showed off their newest building). But what especially amused me was his comments about the lack of air conditioning. He mentioned that it could get pretty hot, but said: All you really need to do is put two fans in the windows, one bringing air in and one blowing hot air out. This is a tech school, you should be able to figure that out. I really thought this was delightful. He and his roommate had done something to deal with the hot room; he was proud of the solution they'd used and was talking about the solution rather than how hot the old dorms were.

 

My kids are still on the young end of high school. For us, college visits are an eye opening. It helps my kids to see that college is a universe of opportunities, not just another grind to get through with some dim possible payoff after college graduation. I don't want to sell them on a school because it has all night pizza or a climbing wall or a winning football team. By the same token, it's ok to consider if students have ways of enjoying themselves while they learn.

 

I don't know that we will do many general campus visits when it comes time to actually compare schools for applications and acceptance. But it's interesting to visit them now and think through how they are marketing themselves to potential students. We usually go to lunch after the visit and compare impressions. The boys are getting pretty good at catching the nuances of how numbers are tossed around (if 700 students at a 30,000 student school do study abroad, that isn't very many) and what is and isn't mentioned. (I though the free speech circle at one school was interesting, in a discouraging way.)

[Teachin'Mine]

Laura, the California schools probably don't even have to try for diversity in the same way some northeastern schools do, and many mid-western schools (those which do try) have a hard time achieving.  In the case of Cal State, it sounds like the Caucasian student would be the "token" student.  lol  

 

Sebastian, is Virginia Tech the school you had done a visit report on a little while back?   If not ...  :bigear:   As an aside, how does a school in Virginia manage without air conditioning in the dorms?   Is it at a higher elevation (cooler), or less humid, than eastern Va?

[MysteryJen]

When you have a kid who is undecided, it is hard to do department visits. Hard to know even what sort of school will work.

 

"Just put something down, seriously!"  This is me begging him while he was doing the CA.

 

Nope, clicked on undecided.

[Laura in CA]

The boys are getting pretty good at catching the nuances of how numbers are tossed around (if 700 students at a 30,000 student school do study abroad, that isn't very many) and what is and isn't mentioned.

 

Good point about catching nuances! I naively thought that studying overseas was very common, b/c at my college over half of all students spent at least a quarter abroad, with some going for a semester or even all year. It was definitely a highlight of my undergraduate days ... but my university made it seamless, with their own campuses as well as agreements with other colleges' programs and with foreign unis, classes that integrated into the course sequences for most majors, including engineering (at the Berlin campus), and financial aid that continued during the term(s) abroad (even part of my plane ticket was covered by financial aid, IIRC).

It was a big surprise how difficult it was last year for my "adopted son" at a UC to arrange to study abroad through the UC's extensive overseas program ... I guess b/c it is a big (nine-campus) state university system ... I can imagine that many students would get discouraged by the paperwork, cost, logistical nightmare of getting off-sequence in required courses, etc.

 

Anyway, I still remember that during my freshman orientation, my parents attended a talk for parents at which it was emphasized that a majority of undergraduates at my school studied abroad and counted it as one of the best things they had done during college. They came and told me that, and it definitely planted a seed!

 

Laura, the California schools probably don't even have to try for diversity in the same way some northeastern schools do, and many mid-western schools (those which do try) have a hard time achieving. In the case of Cal State, it sounds like the Caucasian student would be the "token" student. lol

 

:lol: Yes, that's true!

 

ETA: My son just told me that he was wondering about the ethnicity of yesterday's lab partner (they switch for each lab) -- maybe Latino? Middle Eastern? ... turns out he's from Nepal, by way (recently) of Virginia and Nebraska. That was a new one for us!

 

I should add that my other son is at a large state university (not in CA) that is at least 90% white, and he is very comfortable there. But this son wouldn't like it, I think :)

 

 

ETA: Back to the original topic of this thread, haha -- I LOVE visiting campuses, anywhere, anytime, but yes, my kids aren't quite as enthusiastic LOL. And I can't see visiting more than one a day! The spiels all do seem similar; we like to spend at least an hour or two wandering around, poking our heads into libraries, wandering the halls of various departments, reading what people have posted on their doors (often very amusing!), interacting with students who seem chatty ... we've even had students show us their dorm rooms, common areas, etc. when we've happened to drop by on a day when no official tours are being conducted. We haven't done it, but I can see the potential usefulness of talking with professors in the student's prospective department.

[Laura in CA]

Not for all. At two of the schools, she only took the official tour. But even so, you could see which school puts a lot of emphasis on "fun" and talks about their sports teams, and which emphasize their serious academics and has the student guide tell you about a banner in the library during finals week that says "Sleep is for (rival school in same town) students".

 

 

We noticed this too - and it made a big difference in deciding between schools for us.

 

Same here!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Laura, the California schools probably don't even have to try for diversity in the same way some northeastern schools do, and many mid-western schools (those which do try) have a hard time achieving.  In the case of Cal State, it sounds like the Caucasian student would be the "token" student.  lol  

 

Sebastian, is Virginia Tech the school you had done a visit report on a little while back?   If not ...  :bigear:   As an aside, how does a school in Virginia manage without air conditioning in the dorms?   Is it at a higher elevation (cooler), or less humid, than eastern Va?

 

I don't think I've done a trip report on Virginia Tech yet. (I did do one on WVU a few months back.)

 

Va Tech is at a higher elevation, in Blacksburg. The area is lovely, but is a bit out of the way. 

 

I will say that the more I learn about Va Tech, the more impressed I grow. I never really got the fanatic boosterism in alumni that I've met. But knowing more of the opportunities that students are availing themselves of, I can see why alum are so positive.  (A former scout from our troop spent last spring semester studying in Osaka. Another student is a very close friend of ours, who is a junior. He's had a great experience in the Corps.)

 

Also, I did end up meeting the VaTech adcon who handles homeschooler applications. She was both very forthright and very positive about homeschoolers. They aren't setting up a lot of mandatory extra hoops, but they are looking for ways that the home based transcript can be quantified with outside metrics that they can compare with other students. She mentioned SAT subject tests, AP exams and community college courses as all being helpful. I didn't get the impression that she was looking to see an outside certification for every course, but rather a general indication that the student is college ready.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Yep, that's why I skip going to a lot and do College Fairs. Then my kids pick out their top 3 and we visit those and only those.

 

Interesting, because after our last college fair, I've told my kids that they are entirely optional from here on out. The last one was severely overcrowded, almost to a dangerous level (ie, someone had to hit emergency stop on an escalator, because it kept delivering people to an already over capacity area).

 

I characterize college fairs as full of students with a "trick or treat" mentality. They seem so bent on hitting a lot of tables (and picking up one of everything on the table, no matter how not relevant to them) that they often don't seem to take time to really have good conversations at tables that would be a good match.  (I'll confess that my view is colored by spending a lot of time on the college rep side of those tables.)

[MysteryJen]

:iagree: about the crowding.

We saw a lot of kids at our last college fair (CCTCL) in August who really didn't want to be there and many who were sophomores or juniors. They didn't have any real motivation. We required ds1 to have 3 good questions and talk to at least 6 reps. I talked to a few and dh talked to about 6. It was a good experience for him, because he saw those reps again (at least two of them) for interviews later.

[creekland]

I will say that the more I learn about Va Tech, the more impressed I grow. I never really got the fanatic boosterism in alumni that I've met. But knowing more of the opportunities that students are availing themselves of, I can see why alum are so positive. 

As an alum, I will say I still have an absolutely positive view of VT - and they've improved a ton from when I was there.

 

The lack of AC is not something I ever remember being an issue.  We had fans, and it simply never seemed to be that hot.

[ZooRho]

Has anyone else noticed this?

 

After umpteen visits to umpteen colleges for four kids, I did my last college visit ever.

 

With my oldest, I went in bright-eyed, prepared to be impressed by the uniqueness of each college and the exciting things that happened there.

 

By this year I feel like I could write the script for the presentations --

 

1) We are small enough so each student is an individual but we provide the opportunities of a large school (or, alternately, we have the resources of a large school but the feel of a small school).

 

2) We have amazing study abroad opportunities.

 

3) Our gen ed requirements help students to leave with a broad background but the classes are exciting so students don't mind the gen eds. (And 70 classes fulfill the X requirement, so your student will have CHOICES!).

 

4) The profs care about your student and will not only be available during office hours but possibly even have the seniors over for pizza some night. Students often invite a prof or two to their wedding.

 

5) Merit scholarships? Of course!....(fuzzy blur into) large percentage of students receive financial aid.

 

6) The students will have FUN!

 

7) Students can design their own majors, though actually (upon further questioning) almost no one ever does.

 

I feel like the prsentations are all produced by some company that prepares college presentations and then the colleges find one or two fun facts to throw in to emphasize their "uniqueness."

 

Is this just me, or are others amazed by the similarities in the presentations? (We have mostly looked at LAC's, but over the years we have visited four large state schools, and their presentations were also surprisingly similar...)

BWHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

That is almost true isn't it.  kind of sad. 

 

We feel that about the sports coaches too.

[regentrude]

I characterize college fairs as full of students with a "trick or treat" mentality. They seem so bent on hitting a lot of tables (and picking up one of everything on the table, no matter how not relevant to them) that they often don't seem to take time to really have good conversations at tables that would be a good match.  (I'll confess that my view is colored by spending a lot of time on the college rep side of those tables.)

 

I never understood the point of college fairs in this day and age when information is so easily available online. The time is too short for an in-depth conversation with an admissions representative, nor is that person the best person to answer pertinent questions beyond what is on the webpage ( a department chair or professor is a much better source of major specific info). And if there are hundreds of colleges present, the student has to do research beforehand in order to narrow down the relevant schools anyway.

College fairs seem to me a very inefficient way of acquiring information.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I never understood the point of college fairs in this day and age when information is so easily available online. The time is too short for an in-depth conversation with an admissions representative, nor is that person the best person to answer pertinent questions beyond what is on the webpage ( a department chair or professor is a much better source of major specific info). And if there are hundreds of colleges present, the student has to do research beforehand in order to narrow down the relevant schools anyway.

College fairs seem to me a very inefficient way of acquiring information.

IF the student comes prepared with some specific questions and IF the presenters are experienced it can be of some value. I know that I talk myself hoarse each year at several events.

 

And given the fact that about half of the students I am assigned each year have not looked at the website in much detail and about a third haven't read the whole steps for admission page before submitting their preliminary app, some of those conversations with poorly informed students can also be helpful.

 

But I mostly agree that much can be done online IF a student will take the time for the research. I'm not sure how many do vs picking based on the March Madness Sweet 16 or the BCS or where their friend's brother went. One mom told me her daugher only applied to schools that had good colors because she didn't want ugly sweatshirts and another said her dd only applied to schools with owls as mascots (because owls are smart).

[Teachin'Mine]

I think college fairs can be great in the early high school years as a means of showing the wide range of options and hopefully getting them excited about college and more serious about their studies.   It's great when a college rep points out that they wish they had studied more for the SAT/ACT as they didn't realize what a difference it could make in scholarships and makes other comments like that.  For knowing whether a particular school is a good fit, I think a visit is the absolute best.   Most of dd's apps will be sight unseen, but a lot of internet research has been done.

 

Sebastian, would love to hear about your VT visit if you feel inclined and get a chance.   Creekland, thanks for your thoughts on the air conditioning.  : )

[Kareni]

... and another said her dd only applied to schools with owls as mascots (because owls are smart).

 

That is rather amusingly sad, says the person whose daughter ended up at a college whose mascot is the owl.  My daughter actually knocked one college off her list when the spokesperson on our visit mentioned going into town to get one's nails done.   So, yes, students do have some interesting criteria as to which colleges they'll apply to.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Belacqua]

Col. Confid. has a long, long thread about Weird Reasons a Kid Picked (or Rejected) a College. Some are quite ridiculous ("the tour guide had ugly shoes"). But others, on a bit of reflection, made a lot of sense. One kid ditched a school because it was close enough to a cereal factory that he could smell the cocoa puffs; he said having to smell that every day for four years would make him crazy. Can't say that's the worst reason I've ever heard.

 

Interestingly, a lot of the reasons, both pro and con, involved the campus squirrels.

[Kareni]

 

Interestingly, a lot of the reasons, both pro and con, involved the campus squirrels.

 

That's funny!  My daughter enjoyed the squirrels at her cross country college as they were quite different from those at home.

 

One nearby college had the squirrel as their mascot; she far preferred her college's owl mascot!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[AK_Mom4]

We don't do college visits.  We are a million miles away from all the colleges and the cost is prohibitive.  Well, technically DS21 did get to visit USAFA before attending because he went to the Summer Session, he was already mentally committed to the school.  In fact, he wasn't even willing to apply to any other schools.  DS17 might get lucky - if he ends up going to school in Colorado, we have to take a trip there in the spring and he might get to drive by the school.  We won't have time for a tour, though, so he would just see it as we zip by.

 

My kids have made their decisions so far based on cost, programs offered and financial aid offered.

[Barbara H]

A lot of kids in CO don't go to UNC because of the meat packing plant. Yeah, I couldn't stand 4 years of the Greeley stink.

 

 

I lived in Greeley for a while as a young child and yes, the horrible smell is very strong in my memory!

 

To me it is perfectly reasonable to consider something as big as the whole town smelling bad or just not liking the layout or feel of the campus. What drives me nuts though is when students make an instant snap judgement, positive or negative, based on some tiny factor about the tour guide.

[JennW in SoCal]

 

Interestingly, a lot of the reasons, both pro and con, involved the campus squirrels.

 

Beloit used to have a short video about campus life from the perspective of the squirrels!  And the black squirrels on my son's Ohio campus are one of the things he loves about the place.

[Gwen in VA]

I went to school down the street from a candy factory. You could tell which flavor they made on a given day by the smell. That wonderful aroma was a definite perk!

 

There is one college around here that has absolutely amazing drop-dead gorgeous brickwork. I set one foot on the cmapus and vowed that no dollar of mine would ever support it -- the brickwork goes on forever and is truly picture-perfect, which must cost a fortune. Thankfully none of my kids liked the school, and they were sickened by the expense of the gorgeous mahogany-trimmed fishbowl in the science center. There are probably people who fave about those features, but to us they symbolized the decadence of American colleges these days.

 

We have been turned off by almost every college presentation we have gone to recently -- too slick, too stereotyped, too quick with assurances. Thankfully dd has gone the extra mile to get to know profs and visit with students, so she thinks she has found a few schools that she might like.

 

Funny exchange at a college presentation between a professor in a panel and dd, in the audience --

Prof: "We worry about students who come their freshman year thinking they know where they are headed. These students miss many opportunities by being so focused. We prefer students to come open-minded about where they might head."

Dd: "The advisors seem to be against students who come in having a career goal or direction. What do advisors do with students who already have class and work experience in their desired area and still want to move in that direction? Do they consider having direction to be a problem?"

Prof: "Oh, we love them too.....but the college experience will be less effective with those students...."

 

?????

[8filltheheart]

Dd: "The advisors seem to be against students who come in having a career goal or direction. What do advisors do with students who already have class and work experience in their desired area and still want to move in that direction? Do they consider having direction to be a problem?"

Prof: "Oh, we love them too.....but the college experience will be less effective with those students...."

 

?????

That's nuts! We had the opposite experience a couple of yrs ago when dd went to the honors college talk and they were talking about pre-med. they said they wanted students to already have something like 200-400 shadowing hrs complete before high school graduation.......

[FaithManor]

 

Yes!  I remember peeling off from a campus tour to meet up with a faculty member with whom my son had an appointment.  Parents said, "You can do that?" 

Yes, we had that too.. both with dd and ds. The parents were shocked that we had

additional appointments on our schedule...dean of department if possible, faculty

interviews, specific student interviews (seniors in specific majors), and sitting

in on more than one class-usually one in their intended major and a gen ed. These

are the experiences that really gave the kids a better idea of whether or not

the college was a good fit.

 

I am with the OP though, many of the presentations do seem very cookie cutter like.

We try not to let on how we feel about that because we are there first and

and foremost for ours kids' impressions, but I'm willing to admit to a certain

boredom at this point, as though I hear "yada, yada, yada" in my head. LOL

 

Faith

[bettyandbob]

 

 

Sebastian, would love to hear about your VT visit if you feel inclined and get a chance.   Creekland, thanks for your thoughts on the air conditioning.  : )

 

Not Sebastian, but dd and toured VT a couple of weeks ago. We have toured 7 Virginia schools. VT had the best admissions presentation and the best tour. We are early in the process--dd is a sophomore, but has been asking to visit schools. She thinks VT is too large. We will revisit probably 3 schools 2 years when dd has more of an idea of career focus and we will do department visits. Many schools, including VT have specific weekends for department visits, but I believe you can schedule at any time.

 

VT was very specific in their presentation showing the types of research students did. You got to see specific things coming out of multiple different departments. It wasn't just we have all these departments and we have all these clubs. They picked specifics to highlight, so you felt more substance.  

 

The admissions officer made a big deal about math. He went as far to say that if you were not comfortable with math you should not apply. He made the VT approach to required sound like it would fail any nonmathy person out. I've actually read a lot about the math center VT which supports the freshmen level nonengineering required math courses (all these are online courses). It looks like a great way to handle math and provide support for students, but he didn't mention it at all. He pretty much made it clear that even if you were majoring in English or History or French, if you did not feel really comfortable in higher math you should not apply.

 

The VT tour guide was a senior who had changed his major 4 times and was still graduating on time and actually knew the type of job he was targeted. This was not the case with tour guides at some of the other schools we saw.

 

On these tours we bring dd's younger brother. He has down syndrome and while he does not need a wheel chair I always request one because it keeps him happy and then dd and I can concentrate on the tour. I've decided the response I get to the wheel chair request and subsequent tour shows a little about the school's character. VT wants you to reserve a wheel chair ahead of time, which I did not, but they found one for me anyway. The accessible tour is only slightly different (the guide changes routes to avoid stairs). The tour guide was fantastic, not one glitch leaving me anywhere. One school dd had to do most of the tour on her own because that school just doesn't offer wheelchair (despite being large and hilly). At another school, I was left outside of every single building. And I had one guide tell leave me at an out of service elevator. My dd doesn't need an accessible campus, but the fact that the school and their representatives understand accessibility suggests to me a place that general provides for their students. I don't know if that makes sense, but it gave me a good feeling about VT.

 

 

I survived William and Mary without air conditioning. I am sure VT is fine without air conditioning.

[Teachin'Mine]

Betty thank you for sharing your impressions from the tour.  I think that most of the schools with Tech in their name expect math capable students, even in non-tech majors.  Sounds like the tour guides are well trained at VT and the admissions office really makes an effort to put their best foot forward.   Sounds like some of those other schools, and tour guides,  really dropped the ball.

[FaithManor]

A lot of kids in CO don't go to UNC because of the meat packing plant. Yeah, I couldn't stand 4 years of the Greeley stink.

 

Dd actually ended up at WY because of a college fair. She was approached by a rep because of her honkin' big belt buckle! Well, she didn't end up there because of it, but it was on her list then and then she decided she liked the smaller uni feel. She liked the Army battalion better than the other schools she was looking at. It's been a good choice for her.

Dh rejected a school because it was too close to a paper mill. I thought it that was a little strange UNTIL a few years later when I happened to be traveling in an area that had one and the windows of the car were rolled down.

 

Uhm...yah...if I were not accustomed to it from childhood, I'd absolutely reject the school on the basis that I would feel nauseous my entire freshman year!

 

I had to have a serious talk with eldest ds about not prioritizing Michigan Tech because he can satisfy his PE credits with dance classes and with a 4:1 male/female imbalance, this would (in his estimation) make him popular with the ladies! ARGH!!!!! The worst thing is he is adorable, and he dances like Fred Astaire. If he lands there, I may have to move into the dorms and follow him around with a club just to beat the girls off until we know he's definitely going to graduate!!! :D

 

Faith