Latin after Cambridge?

[Dmmetler]

I'm starting to realize that I need to think about the next step. DD still has a couple of stages of CL to go through, but the end is in sight-she's likely to finish working through the books, mostly on her own, within the next year.

 

So, what would be a good curriculum to follow CL, especially one that can be managed by a parent who, frankly, is fast getting out of her level of competence? Something with an online class would be good-but since DD is likely to continue her science research and travel, I'd prefer to avoid too many real-time commitments that can't be time shifted to when its easy for her. She really, really dislikes almost anything we've tried with a video component unless the video is able to tell/show far more than a book can (she can handle it for history or science documentaries, but something like Latin for Children, Khan Academy, or even video game walkthroughs on you-tube leaves her cold. She'd rather read it than see it). I have Wheelock's on the shelf, but I'm not sure that it's going to hold her interest at age 9-10.

 

 

 

 

[Laura Corin]

This is one option.  I haven't used it but had been investigating before Calvin went off to school.  

 

You could contact them to ask what level would be appropriate: GCSE would normally be (I think) the last book plus some classical literature (often parts of the Aeneid and some individual poems and bits of Pliny).  AS level would take you further into literature.

 

L

[lewelma]

Small hijack here.  Dmmetler, what has your dd liked about Cambridge?  My younger has fallen in love with Latin this year, and I was going to start him in Latin Prep.  But then I looked into Cambridge because of your post and it seems more holistic and reading-focused, rather than the parts-to-whole focus of Latin Prep.  What resources did you buy/use?

 

Thanks,

 

Ruth in NZ

[kiwik]

Sorry just marking.

[mumto2]

Dd does latin on her own, very self guided. Last year we did not carry her Henle materials to the States because the library there had a new copy of Wheelocks which she wanted to try. She enjoyed it with some free online support. She did at least a third of the book in a six week period and is looking forward to getting another chunk done this year. Different vocab words and the translation was from actual roman texts is what she liked about Wheelocks per dd. FWIW she has done some of Cambridge on her own. Stopped someplace in second book for a trip to the States again. That time she switched to Henle and liked it. She wants to finish CL at some point too because that is what her friends in school here take -- she is still ahead of them so no motivation yet. ;)

 

This http://web.uvic.ca/hrd/latin/wheelock/index.htm dd used with Wheelocks. She really liked it. I think she had the 7th edition book and had no problems with it being created for the 6th edition.

[Dmmetler]

The best Analogy I can make is that Cambridge is kind of like the Life of Fred of Latin.  Like Fred, there's an overarching storyline-in CL, it's a Roman family (if you've watched the Dr. Who set in Pompeii, it's THAT family-and the relocation the Doctor and Donna do from Pompeii to the country before Vesuvius erupts does happen in the series), and there are two sets of passages. The first teaches the vocabulary and introduces the new concepts, and is supported by pictures and the new vocabulary being glossed at the bottom of the page. After that, the vocabulary and the grammar concept is taught, with some practice (and if you get the workbook or use the online extensions, there's more practice there, too) and then a translation passage is given. This is supposed to be a written translation.

 

There are CDs for each stage that tell the story as well, with pretty good voice acting and sound effects-when DD was working on Stage 1, I had the CD on my iPod. I drove DD and a friend to cheer camp, and on the way back, the other little girl, who had just finished PS 1st grade, asked if they could listen to the "silly story about the dog". I realized that she was talking about CL-she didn't know a word of Latin, but the CD was enough that she got that it was a dog and that funny things were happening (and that particular chapter, "silly story" really is right). CL was recommended to us by a friend of mine who teaches middle and high school Latin, who warned me that the earlier stages, especially, were designed to appeal to middle school boys, and I see what she means-it's written to be humorous, with some innuendo laced in that would likely have a 12 yr old boy in giggles if not hysterics. DD, who loves the UK Horrible Histories, and could quote quite a bit of Monty Python by age 3 (due to being around parents who do so), adores it, although I believe she misses some of the references.

 

I've never used the teacher's editions- they're expensive. I'm sure they'd be helpful in pulling out the grammar. If I need more information, I go to Wheelock's (which I picked up for .50 at a used book sale). I'd be more worried about it if I were trying to use the books for high school credit.

 

The online extensions are wonderful. There is a history/culture section that links what happened in the chapter's stories to actual Roman history and archaeology, and the online extensions link this to the BBC, British Museum, Oxford, Cambridge, and similar resources, with video clips, photos, and just a lot more detail. If your child has ever done an Athena's Academy class, it's very similar to the Meze Platter-a bunch of well selected online resources that flesh out the book content. There are also vocabulary and grammar activities online which supplement the ones in the book, which I had replace the workbook for practice-because DD doesn't have small enough handwriting to write in the workbook, and the passages are available glossed-so DD can check her translations there.

 

I'm really pleased with CL for DD. It's just plain been a good fit for her. And, since she'll probably finish the whole series before middle school, she'll have enough time to fill gaps.

 

I've been able to find the prior edition of the books for stages 1-4 cheap used, and usually the CDs as well. Stages 5 and 6 will probably cost more. The online site is pretty cheap-paying bank fees and exchange rates, it's been between $10-$15 USD each year, and is well worth it.

 

One side effect of CL-the audio CD narrator and vocal actors speak Classical Latin with a British accent. After a couple of years of this, so does DD!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lewelma]

Thanks so much for typing in all of that! This sounds so much like my little boy!

 

So do you think that the web resources would replace the workbook？

And what gaps do see? 

Do you think that the textbook has enough exercises/practice?

 

Thanks!

 

[Dmmetler]

I think the website can substitute for the workbook if you have a child who doesn't need to write to remember, or for whom writing gets in the way of learning more than helping. For DD, that's the case, so being able to do many of the same activities online with less writing is helpful. I will say that the website would make it very easy to cheat on the translation/reading component, so I don't have DD go onto the website until she's done the translation offline.

 

There are a decent number of exercises per chapter, but again, more focused on using it than memorization. I feel like the workbook is more designed to make it easy for a teacher to assign work to be done outside class, while the website is more for individual practice. The biggest part of the textbook exercises are demonstrating the specific topic to be pulled out and using them and the translation.

 

If there's a major gap, it's in explicit grammar study. I don't see that as a problem for us at this point, but it might be a concern if we were trying to use it for high school credit or prepare for the AP Latin exam. When I contacted the National Junior Classical League about where to place DD for the National Classical Etymology Exam, they stated that they consider CL stage 1 and 2 to be equivalent to a year of high school Latin, but that, after that point, each book is a year class.

 

 

 

 

[lewelma]

For the grammar, is it muddled or is it just not explicit?  Meaning are you working on all the different tenses all at once with different conjugations, or are you working systematically through the material but just not studying/memorizing the details.  If it is the second, I can simply have him add to a grammar notebook as the material is learned.  If it is the first, it might be more tricky.  I took latin for 6 years in school.  I don't remember much but I am sure it will all come back quickly once we head down this path. 

 

So just to make sure I understand, you bought the textbook , CD, and access to the website.

 

for whom writing gets in the way of learning more than helping.

This is such an interesting way of putting it and very helpful.  Thanks!

 

 

[Dmmetler]

A little of both-the lesson sections are structured, and you can pretty easily look the topic up in another book, but the translation passages and reading passages aren't limited to what has been studied already, either in vocabulary or in grammar. I also suspect, although I haven't seen the full 6 book sequence all at once to compare it side by side, that there may be concepts simply not covered except via implicit exposure.

 

For a younger student who is ready for high school level content, but doesn't want a dry presentation, I think it's a good course. It also has the advantage of being entirely secular, which many Latin programs aren't. I don't think it's as rigorous as most other Latin programs with the same number on the book cover-but it's a lot more alive.

 

 

 

 

And yes, after Stage 1, I bought the book, CD, and website subscription. The book and CD I had no trouble finding used on Ebay or Amazon. I haven't seen a difference in the actual text between editions except that British editions use British English spellings in the English language parts of the book. The Latin is the same either way, and the Latin passages, so far, have been the same between the third and 4th editions (I'm guessing that the web links to additional material may not be correct for the 3rd edition texts, but if you have the website subscription, it provides all of that anyway. We haven't looked at the history part of the textbooks since we got the website access). If you want more writing, the workbook may be helpful, and there are formal tests available that I've never used, so I can tell you nothing about.

 

 

 

 

 

[lewelma]

 The Latin is the same either way, and the Latin passages, so far, have been the same between the third and 4th editions (I'm guessing that the web links to additional material may not be correct for the 3rd edition texts, but if you have the website subscription, it provides all of that anyway. We haven't looked at the history part of the textbooks since we got the website access)

 

I didn't think about editions.  What exactly do you mean about the web links?  I'm still confused.  How does the website subscription "provide all of that anyway“？

 

As for Wheelocks for you dd, one thing I found is that it is *very* philosophical.  And the latin, because it is original, is much more difficult to translate - so a fun challenge.  In some strange way, the actual thinking of the Romans comes through.  If you dd is into philosophical conversations about the meaning of being human, she might actually like it.  She is young, and it does appear dry, but this extra component makes it quite unique and actually fascinating. I loved just thinking about what some of the sentences meant both with a modern interpretation and to people of the era. I also worked quite hard on all the extra materials available on the website to improve my sight reading, rather than translating, and it was a completely different way to approach the learning of the language.

 I haven't seen a difference in the actual text between editions except that British editions use British English spellings in the English language parts of the book. The Latin is the same either way, and the Latin passages, so far, have been the same between the third and 4th editions (I'm guessing that the web links to additional material may not be correct for the 3rd edition texts, but if you have the website subscription, it provides all of that anyway. We haven't looked at the history part of the textbooks since we got the website access). If you want more writing, the workbook may be helpful, and there are formal tests available that I've never used, so I can tell you nothing about.

 

One confusing thing is that the British edition is published in 5 books, and the North American is published in 4 books, but there are (I think) 6 extra chapters in the North American edition which aren't in the British editions.  If you've finished the British editions, the last 6 chapter in the NA version are adapted readings from authentic Latin, and may be a good starting off point for intermediate level study.

[Dmmetler]

The history section in the textbook gives references to the history content, including web URLs. The website links all that sort of thing directly, and is presumably easier to update with new content or if a URL changes. I know some in an older edition still listed URLs with numbers, for example, which is something I remember doing in the mid 1990s, and haven't seen for about a decade.

[acurtis75]

Thanks to your excellent description I am now on the website researching one more curriculum "supplement". I see they have iPad textbooks. Maybe we'll try that since it is a minimal investment. DD likes LFC and it covers grammar thoroughly but I bet she would enjoy this too.

 

btw, when I pulled up the book in iTunes it linked to lots of other Latin textbooks including Wheelocks. You've probably just cost me a lot of money in the form of ibooks.

 

eta: just opened a sample in ibooks of another book and see on my cloud that I have Cambridge Latin Unit 2 Stage 13. That's rather random and I have no recollection of downloading it. This is what happens when I read about curriculum too late at night.

[FairProspects]

Following. This is my top choice for Latin next year but it also confuses me.