Smart Kids Choosing to Fail: Frustrated Parent Nightmare

[Guest exhausted parent]

My son is smart, articulate and a good kid---and yes I am certain most parents would say the same for their own kids.  He consistently scores way off the chart on his STAR scores.  He usually gets at least a B without studying on tests, but somehow cannot grab the concept that if he would just turn in his homework he'd be on the honor role.

 

Now he is failing 2 classes his senior year and may not even graduate.  After speaking with his teachers (who all say he is a joy to have in class) they say he is not alone and apparently there are many choosing this same path.  This is not a new problem from what they tell me--BUT they have no suggestions at all about how to handle it.

 

Okay--I just need someone to explain why this is happening.  My son's response is that he is bored.  He feels like he is just tired of doing the same repetitive stuff over and over so homework is just more grunt work.  Still it is a choice and that is freaking me out.  He says he hears everyday how new college grads are not getting jobs so that future appears grim to him.  Mixed messages in the media about how important education is seems to make things worse.

 

So much effort is made to push those who may be lucky to graduate because they have real learning problems but I realize also my kid is choosing to fail.  It is odd because the reactions I saw from teachers and counselors is pretty much a big shoulder shrug when it comes to those who have just given up.  Why is it okay to just give up?  Why are we letting some of our brightest just fall off the map?

 

Now...I have tried rewards, punishments, taking away stuff---seriously everything.  Nothing is helping. His counselor said for me to walk away from it---that he must fall and decide to help himself.  What is a frustrated parent supposed to do?  I can't just step aside and watch him fail--so close to graduating.

 

Is anyone even trying to figure out why this is occurring?  Has anyone come up with something better than stepping aside to watch them fail?  His counselor said she has 45 kids in the same boat with my son---all smart kids who are just giving up.  There has to be an answer other than giving up.  I refuse to believe this is so common and nothing is being done to somehow stop our bright kids from walking off that cliff. 

 

There is not enough Xanax in the world.  I can't be the only parent that has been faced with this.

               There has to be an answer.  Any ideas?

[Ellie]

Yes, you may have to walk away.

 

You could also consider dual enrollment at the local community college. Then he'd be earning college credit, something which he may see as much more useful than a high school diploma and so be more motivated. If he earns an Associates degree, then goes on to earn a BA or higher, that he didn't graduate from high school will be a non-issue.

[Norah]

There are other options, but I wouldn't expect the school to point them out to you. There is dual enrollment, as the previous post mentions, but you still have to deal with the school. Many states also have a high school equivalency test you can take, and essentially test out of high school. The options vary depending on the state you're in. 

 

I agree somewhat that you have to let it go, to the extent that it's up to him to do his work. You can't make that choice for him. He's still your son, and if you can help him find an alternative that he prefers, you probably should. Years ago, there was a book called the teenage liberation handbook. I don't know if they're still updating it, but it was full of ways to "get out of high school and start your life," or some similar catch phrase. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I require my homeschooled student to follow through on assignments even if it means that I'm sitting right by his side.  I don't think it would be any different if my son was in public school - I would still require him to follow through even if it meant sitting right by his side while he did his homework.  If he's depressed (which is suggested somewhat by the "what's the use" talk) then I would get him counseling/medical help.  

[Nan in Mass]

Could it be that he is choosing to fail because if he succeeds, he will have to go to college and keep doing school another four years, or because if he chooses fail, it removes the scary possibility that he will fail by mistake?  Have you talked about what he really wants to do after he graduates?  Not what the rest of the world thinks he should do or what he thinks he has to do but what he wishes he could do?  Can you make a deal with him that he won't have to go to college if he will just graduate from high school?  With C's?  Can you work out a do-the-minimum plan?  With the promise that he can keep living with you and look for a job or an alternative training program after high school.  You might have to give up on the straight-to-four-year-college idea, but I don't think you have to give up on the graduate from high school idea.  You probably are going to have to acknowledge how hard it is going to be for him to keep going to high school the whole rest of the year.  Perhaps you could talk about the more career-oriented community college degrees or certificates.  Something on that list might appeal to him and give him some hope.  He needs some reason to keep sitting in that seat every day, some reason to look ahead with some sort of hope.  I keep saying the hardest part of raising teenagers is keeping them alive.  The next hardest part is getting them to want to grow up.  You aren't the only one with this problem.  I see it all the time.

 

Hugs,

Nan

 

ETA - I don't think bribes or punishments will work.  On a day to day basis, nothing is probably going to seem worth sitting in that depressing classroom.  For what it is worth, I've been where you are and I did manage to get my oldest to graduate from high school.  And college.  *I* didn't do it.  *He* did.  Once we said he didn't have to go to college and that we understood how hard it was for him just to keep going to school senior year and how proud we were of him for not dropping out, he managed to make himself do enough work to graduate.  It took a TON of love and respect on on our part, and lots of work on his part. We are very glad we didn't give up on him or make him leave and support himself.  (He was always either working full time or going to school full time, but he didn't make enough to live on his own.)  He made the plan and did the work, but we continued to support him and include him and tell him every way we could think of that we respected what he was doing, not just understood and loved but RESPECTED, and that we thought he was doing a good job under difficult circumstances.

[Jean in Newcastle]

See I think if a person is hell bent on not doing something, they really won't do it.  I'd try just about anything to find some way for my kid to succeed, but I also know that at the end of the day it isn't about what "I" do or don't do. 

True, but a person hell bent on not doing something will not homeschool either.  So either there is enough of a relationship there for the mom (and dad) to get through to him or not.  I have sat down with my ds and have insisted on things and he argued and I argued back, but at the end of the day, he respects me enough to listen. He also knows deep down and because I remind him frequently ;)  that I love him and want the best for him.  Now at the very same time, I'm doing more listening than talking - finding out what his fears are and his hopes and his dreams.  He has been resistant in the past because things seem overwhelming.  I've reassured him about that and have given him some btdt perspective from time to time.  

[dbmamaz]

fwiw, this was me.  I had the third highest SAT score in my graduating class and almost didnt graduate.  I often say it was to piss off my mom, who kept harping on me that my grades werent good enough.  The only two classes I actually needed to graduate were english and government, and with my final, I had a 69.7 in english, but a 69.2 in government - he rounded up and passed me.  

 

I went on to penn state where I dropped out a few times, moved on to another college and dropped out some more.  I'm not sure there was anything anyone could have really done - i didnt care about anything . . .until I had kids.  Then, all the stuff I didnt care about for myself, I suddenly cared about for them.  I still dont have a degree, but at least I got somewhere with my career (the ex couldnt hold a job, and i was a single mom for a while).  

 

I've made it clear to my kids that I dont think they should be in college unless they are sure what they want from it - my daughter was SURE she'd do better than I did, but she has already dropped out twice herself and is now refusing to go back.  My teen I intend to usher through a 2-year degree and then send him to work, and let him mature and figure out what he wants until he gets to the point where he's willing to do it without me hand-holding him.

 

At some point you do have to let them find their own way, imo.  Of course, I also have a 21 yo daughter not working or going to school or speaking to me (much), so what do I know.  

[pantone]

Speaking as a kid who LOATHED school and racked up 30 truancies in a single quarter (why yes I DID get suspended eventually), allow me to say that in part I "get it." 

 

In my view, school was a horrific prison sentence that I couldn't get out of. If you did really well, everyone patted you on the head and you got the same classes and still served your time. If you did really poorly, people gave you *tsk tsk* noises and you got the same classes and still served your time...plus you got a lot of free time instead of spending it all on the idiotic homework that didn't seem to matter anyway. 

 

The only thing that motivated me to do anything in high school, ever, was to visit a college that was 800 miles away from home. I respected the people there, I respected the professors, it was antithesis to my high school, and I felt extremely welcomed and like I belonged. LOVED college. I was actually pretty shocked they allowed me in; my grades were so mediocre that I had already been to the military recruiter's office and signed up...I was only a driver's license check and an oath away from Boot Camp. Drove home from the recruiter's office to find the acceptance letter in the mailbox. 

 

As a parent, I have no idea what to say...my kids are still too young for that kind of thing. 

 

Maybe he'll be one of those kids who starts a business himself instead of going to college and does higher ed later on. 

Or he'll jump on the full-time fast food job bandwagon and realize that's no kind of life, either. (BTDT.) 

I never knew what I wanted to be when I grew up. 

Essentially, I still don't. 

[Jilly]

I was the exact same way when I was 16. I was so bored in high school, and I started blowing off classes and not doing the work. Lucky for me I had a great guidance counselor who knew I had potential.  I was in California, so he had my mom sign me up for the proficiency test when I was 16. I took the test and passed and before I knew it I was out of high school and in community college where I was happy. I wouldn't have listened to anyone telling me I had to work hard and get through high school, but the minute college was mentioned I was intrigued. 

[Rachel]

My husband was this way in high school and his first go round of college.  He is very bright (perfect score on English section of the ACT) but didn't see much point in being in school.  I'm not sure what his high school GPA was, but it did not match his test scores.  It took 3 years for him to do 4 semesters of college, he spent most of his time playing video games in the frat house, he quit school before he was asked to leave.  

 

He got a job working for an electrical contractor, it was long hours of physical work with a lot of travel, never knowing when he'd be home.  He once went to Arizona for a 3 day job and was stuck there for 2 weeks.  It took 5 years, but he finally saw the value of education.  He went back to college as a non-traditional student starting over almost from scratch, he graduated from the engineering school, and even made the Dean's list multiple times.  He is now a project manager and loves his job.

 

There is nothing my in-laws could have done to motivate him, we were dating at the time, there was nothing I could do to motivate him.  I'm not sure my in-laws would have allowed my husband to flunk out of high school, but they would have let him flunk out of college had he not left on his own.  For my husband, the reality of working in that same job for the next 40 years with only small raises made him re-evaluate.  Once he was self motivated, school was a breeze.

[Grantmom]

I have no idea what the possibilities are for beginning homeschooling halfway through the senior year, but I might look into it.  I guess I would want to know if it would hinder him being pulled out with bad grades and just homeschooled for one semester.  I like the idea of dual enrollment better, if it's possible to start halfway through the year.  Then he could be earning credits towards something real.  Our CC has a lot of great programs that prepare for certain jobs with just an associate's degree.  Or, I would try to do whatever it takes to just help him get through this last semester to graduate and then he can work or try and figure out what he wants to do next.

 

I would take away the pressure of feeling like he needs to know now what he wants to do for the rest of his life, but I would try my best to empower him to come up with a smart plan for the next phase.  I would spend a lot of time with him, talking and brainstorming, and not worry about the idea that he has to fail to learn, etc.  I think a child like this needs more support, not less.  And if I thought there were any medical issues, I would seek out help from trusted providers.

 

[Gwen in VA]

I have heard that up to 1/3 of all high school dropouts are "gifted and talented" but just got bored out of their minds and left school. (I have a niece who has gone this route so my brother-in-law has done some research on the subject.)

 

Given the many negatives of not having a high school diploma, this is a short-sighted solution, but often it is the only alternative kids have -- complete boredom or no high school diploma.

 

Also, communication is key. A friend of mine is an organic chem prof at college, and she says that a reasonable number of her students "choose" to fail organic (and some have even told her this is words!!!!!) because failing organic means they CAN'T go to medical school, and not being ABLE to go is sometimes easier than telling mom and dad that they don't actually want to go to medical school. So make sure the lines of communication with your son are WIDE open.

 

BTW, my son dropped out of college this summer. Dh and I were obviously against it, and it took our son the better part of a year to talk us into letting him take a year's leave of absence. Despite our worries, his move has turned out to be 100% positive. Sometimes our kids have plans and we just don't listen because what they want isn't on our radar.

[Nan in Mass]

I edited my post to give my credentials for my advice.

And I want to say that Gwen has stated better what I was trying to say.  As usual. : )

 

Nan

[MBM]

My son is smart, articulate and a good kid---and yes I am certain most parents would say the same for their own kids.  He consistently scores way off the chart on his STAR scores.  He usually gets at least a B without studying on tests, but somehow cannot grab the concept that if he would just turn in his homework he'd be on the honor role.

 

Now he is failing 2 classes his senior year and may not even graduate.  After speaking with his teachers (who all say he is a joy to have in class) they say he is not alone and apparently there are many choosing this same path.  This is not a new problem from what they tell me--BUT they have no suggestions at all about how to handle it.

 

They are not really willfully choosing this path. It is likely part of their physical development that can be re-shaped by them, though.

 

The slipping grades, the lack of interest and zest, point to mild depression which is not uncommon in teens. Depression isn't just feeling down; it's also not feeling alive or excited about something in life.

 

Teen brains go through massive pruning and myelination. If their left prefrontal cortex is not thick enough, signals sent by the amygdalae cannot be adequately calmed; however, they can beef up the prefrontal cortex just by practicing breathing meditation. Brain imaging studies have shown this multiple times at a number of research institutions (U of Wisconsin--Madison, MIT, UCLA, etc.). A number of places are doing this type of research now.

 

Anaerobic exercise would also help a boy because it helps to balance neurotransmitters.

 

Okay--I just need someone to explain why this is happening.  My son's response is that he is bored.  He feels like he is just tired of doing the same repetitive stuff over and over so homework is just more grunt work.  Still it is a choice and that is freaking me out.  He says he hears everyday how new college grads are not getting jobs so that future appears grim to him.  Mixed messages in the media about how important education is seems to make things worse.

 

So much effort is made to push those who may be lucky to graduate because they have real learning problems but I realize also my kid is choosing to fail.  It is odd because the reactions I saw from teachers and counselors is pretty much a big shoulder shrug when it comes to those who have just given up.  Why is it okay to just give up?  Why are we letting some of our brightest just fall off the map?

 

I don't think your son is really choosing to fail. It's more like he is a victim of his biology and possibly how he perceives his circumstances. He is also going through the messy teen years which for some are messier than others.

 

It is too bad the teachers and counselors are so apathetic about this because the kids are suffering. Our school district is implementing mindfulness programs for kids, parents, teachers and administrators to prevent depression and anxiety and help people to thrive. It's easy to do and is not a religious ritual as is often mistakenly believed.

 

Now...I have tried rewards, punishments, taking away stuff---seriously everything.  Nothing is helping. His counselor said for me to walk away from it---that he must fall and decide to help himself.  What is a frustrated parent supposed to do?  I can't just step aside and watch him fail--so close to graduating.

 

Learn what is physically happening to your son then teach him. He would have to do the work, though. Easier said than done!

 

Is anyone even trying to figure out why this is occurring?  Has anyone come up with something better than stepping aside to watch them fail?  His counselor said she has 45 kids in the same boat with my son---all smart kids who are just giving up.  There has to be an answer other than giving up.  I refuse to believe this is so common and nothing is being done to somehow stop our bright kids from walking off that cliff. 

 

A lot of people have been working on this for several decades actually. Here are some books that might help you:

 

Dan Siegel, clinical professor of psychiatry at UCLA -- http://drdansiegel.com

Brainstorm: The Power and Purpose of the Teenage Brain (will be available December 26)

Mindsight: The New Science of Personal Transformation

 

Richard Davidson, professor of psychiatry, psychology at U of Wisc -- http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/web/personnel/director.html

The Emotional Life of Your Brain: How Its Unique Patterns Affect the Way You Think, Feel, Live--And How You Can Change Them

--(Chapter 11 explains what you can do explicitly to change brain circuitry.

 

Dan Goleman has a CD out that has a guided meditation, about 10", that has worked well for my teen son. It's included with the book Building Emotional Intelligence: Techniques to Cultivate Inner Strength in Children.

 

There is not enough Xanax in the world.  I can't be the only parent that has been faced with this.

               There has to be an answer.  Any ideas?

 

I also like Heigh Ho's idea of getting a job. I think working menial jobs can help kids see what it's like to work for little money and to develop empathy for those who do. The sons of our family's dermatologist are all expected to work at menial jobs for those reasons even though the family is extremely wealthy. (They own a professional baseball team.) The kids are polite, grateful, goal-oriented and hard-working so it seems to have helped.

 

Good luck. It's frustrating to watch our kids struggle.

 

[Crimson Wife]

My brother was like that- sky-high test scores but he refused to do any assignment he considered "busywork" so he barely graduated high school by the skin of his teeth. He went on to a very "hands-on" music technology/audio engineering program at a music college that had very minimal general ed requirements (I think it was something like only 4 or 5 general ed courses total). He did very well at college and has had a successful career as an audio engineer.

 

 

If there is a program at the community college level that interests him, I'd be inclined to have him take the CAHSEE (equivalency exam) and enroll in CC come January.

[redsquirrel]

He sounds depressed. You have many options, but I hope you also chose to take him to a doctor and a good therapist. He is too young to be so sad about his future. There is help for him. He doesn't have to feel this way. It doesn't mean he will suddenly want to be a straight A student, but he can feel better about life. I bet the world is in shades of grey to him these days. He can do better than that.

[OneStepAtATime]

My nephew was where you are now two years ago.  There are others in the family and friends' kids who have similar issues but his was the most severe in the family.  The common factor, they are all bright and are all are bored, bored, bored.  For my nephew, my BIL pulled him out of school before failing grades became the norm. got a special agreement with the school that he would continue some classes from home while doing dual enrollment at the local college and it worked.  He finished high school, loved the college level courses and is thriving.

 

I have a friend who's son was in this state several years ago.  He took him to a pyschologist who told him his son was actually depressed.  He had lost sight of what his purpose in life was and could no longer see the point of following everyone else's agenda.  The psychologist told him not to make it a control thing or to look at it as wasted potential if he didn't graduate on time.  He told him to find a path that would help him see the purpose in his own life, and do it soon.  So he withdrew his son to homeschool, but instead of doing any normal schooling, they traveled, the kid did apprenticeships, he enrolled in lots of different practical application classes like auto-mechanics, architectural design, etc.  He gave him a year to try and find purpose in his life, but did not discuss that with him.  He just gave him the time.  That year stretched into 2, where his son found more and more things he was genuinely interested in learning.  Eventually, he found his calling, architectural design, got his high school diploma, then his bachelors and was working on his Masters when I last spoke with them.  He was finally thriving and seemed really happy.  His father told me the last time we talked that it was the best decision he ever made and they are closer than they have ever been.

 

I know another dad who never intended to homeschool.  His other kids went through school and did fine. With his son, they realized that he just wasn't functioning in school anymore.  They did research, talked out options and the family agreed to try homeschooling his senior year (roughly 5 years ago?).  He ended up doing much better being able to work at home, with more challenging and interesting material than he had been using at school and not having to waste time changing classes, waiting for other students to catch up, waiting for teachers to take care of administrative issues, etc.  He was getting through all of the material in about 4 hours, then used the extra time to pursue outside interests, do an apprenticeship at a local TV station, etc.  He is now out of college and is working in Broadcast TV.

 

You may have to find a different path, whatever that path may be.  Can you talk to him about it, openly and freely, no holds barred and with no expectations of the outcome of that conversation?  

[Arcadia]

 My son's response is that he is bored.  He feels like he is just tired of doing the same repetitive stuff over and over so homework is just more grunt work.  Still it is a choice and that is freaking me out.  He says he hears everyday how new college grads are not getting jobs so that future appears grim to him.  Mixed messages in the media about how important education is seems to make things worse.

 

Boredom can lead to situational depression because it gives the person too much time to wallow in despair. If his friends are all feeling the same way it is even harder to get out of the rut.

Are there any non-academic activities or competitions that he can take part in? Physical activities also help.

When I was in junior college (11 & 12th grade) my class managed to avoid academic boredom by looking forward to ECAs. The guys in my class were in the competitive dragonboat team and canoeing team.  That help encourage them to watch their health, diet and maintain good academic scores (or their parents would pull them out of competitive sports).  It also helped in their emotional wellbeing.

I'll work on his emotional wellbeing first.  The school counselors may have seen too many similar students. I'll look for a good therapist instead.

You are definitely not alone, one of hubby's friend is having similar problems with his high school aged son.

[Nscribe]

You are not alone in the sense that a lot of teens are taking the messages saturating the media to heart.  They are simultaneously hearing that without college it is bleak and with college it is bleaker than it once may have been.  The feel the waves of a campaign to increase college attendance and completion and hear about graduates working in retail jobs and living at home.  They are trying to find their place in the world and shifting sands they stand on leave them under- and over- whelmed.  Without life experience and the wisdom that comes with time and practice, they are stuggling with where they may find security, certainty and hope that if they do x they may reasonably expect y.  I work with/encounter a lot of teens, and it strikes me how many differences there are in the way they talk about what they expect from or fear about the world they are preparing to enter now compared to a few years ago.  They read the articles or hear the gist of them which describe a lost generation and they don't see how what they are doing now will make a great deal of difference. 

 

It is a challenging time to be a teen.  Many have never known a world without images of war.  Cynicism is high.  They are told they must meet ever higher academic goals but see those just ahead of them graduating to move back home and have debt.  They are disillusioned.

[ktgrok]

I was that kid. Seriously. What worked for me was to leave highschool totally. I did early enrollment at a local college. It is kind of like dual enrollment, but for ALL your classes. They count as senior year of highschool and first year of college. And I lived on campus and everything. In my state the public school system paid for my tuition and books, my parents paid for room and board. It worked fabulously. My best friend did it too and we roomed together. I would have sunk if I had stayed in highschool. I hated it. So pointless. 

[Nan in Mass]

Sometimes one of the problems with being intelligent is that you think to look ahead and that you can connect doing x with expecting to be able to do y.  When the adults around you are not presenting a good picture of what "ahead" looks like, or if that "ahead" doesn't look like someplace you want to be, you begin to wonder what the point is.  After a bit of this, you start sinking into inertia.  Once you have sunk, it can be very difficult to get back to a place where it feels like something that actually is worth doing IS worth doing.  When you switch paths entirely, like switching to community college or starting to homeschool, unless the new thing looks and feels quite different from the old thing, you might decide you have been tricked and become even more unhappy.  And yet a drastically different route might not work, especially if you have sunk deeply into depression.  It is tricky.

 

This is a senior in high school.  He's almost finished, although it won't seem like that to him and he might not want to finish if it means moving on to something he considers more of the same or worse.  I think I would consider having him keep going until he graduates from high school and meanwhile working hard to find something for him to look forward to that will start immediately after that.  That would shorten the drudgery of finishing school from unending-foreverness to until-the-end-of-school and make it more managable.  Meanwhile, I would try to find him a part-time job or community college class that he likes.  Maybe he'd like to work on gettibg his pilot's license now and aim to move to Alaska when he graduates from high school and work as a small airplane pilot.  Maybe he'd like to write a book.  He doesn't have to wait until he's through college to start living.  The tricky bit is finding something he wants to do that he can start immediately.

 

Nan

[Nscribe]

  He doesn't have to wait until he's through college to start living. 

 

Nan

Once again, Nan emerges with a gem.  This is an issue I hear a lot of the teens discussing.  They are bombarded with this conflicting, cynical information and are internally conflicted with the added fear that they may do it all for naught.  They talk in terms of waiting to begin living and doing and then being back in the basement hoping to find a job.  It is hard to talk about the wonders of learning and being educated to an audience who feels they are missing or will miss something.

[kroe1]

Sorry, but I feel this is just a lazy, passive aggressive teenager. At our house, we have expectations of our kiddos. They are well published. If one is not in school, one must not be living in mommy's wallet. The first kiddo was kicked out of the house at age 18 for smoking. He dropped out of high school and was living out of his car. We did not see him for almost two years. When he returned, he had already worked himself up to a restaurant manager at a greasy spoon and had his own apartment. He learned that he was putting in enough hours to be a surgeon, but was only making minimum wage if his salary was divided among all those hours. Now he is an ER physician. The time away from the easy life of high school and mommy's wallet toughened him up enough to appreciate life's rewards when expectations are met.

 

After dealing with this event, I always recommend parents lay out expectations early, especially what has to happen to remain in the family home after the kiddo is an adult. What are you and your DH willing to put up with. If you are willing to put up with a dead beat, unemployed, uneducated kiddo, that is fine. But if you have other limitations, then make sure you clearly relay them. Then your DS will be able to make his own plans around that.

 

Furthermore, I like the poster who mentioned staying on top of assignments. I would pick my kiddo up at the school, very loudly and with hair curlers in, until my kiddo knew I mean business. Then I would make him sit with me until the assignments were done. Unfortunately, your own time constraints might make such drastic measures impossible.

 

Finally, I assume you mention Xanax in jest. But it makes me remember that a kiddo examines life through his parents eyes. If life is too difficult for you without a pill or a drink, then life will most likely be too difficult also for your Ds. How do you handle monotonous life tasks? What kind of role model does your DS have.

[shawthorne44]

I was that kid.  It was that I was truly and totally bored.  Although in my case, Aceing the test meant that no teacher seemed willing to give me less than a B-.  It did mean that I wasn't even in the top 25% of my class. 

 

Two things worked for me.  I had a car.  I could only drive it if I got at least 4 A's and 2 B's on the previous report card.  Although because of AP classes and gym I negotiated that a B in AP counted as an A, and Gym didn't count at all.  We had off-campus lunch and not everyone had a car so having one was a huge social boon. 

 

Second was college.  I truly blossomed.  I could do as much or as little work as required to understand.  There was no busy work. 

 

So, if the problem is truly that your son is bored then dual enrollment will probably work.  Along with some immediate consequences for grades less than a certain amount. 

 

Or, it could be just an excuse for your son to be lazy. 

 

[Catwoman]

I just wanted to point out that the OP hasn't been back here since about an hour after she posted this thread (which was also her one and only post on this forum,) so although this is an interesting discussion with a lot of helpful information, I have a strong feeling that she has already ditched us and gone on to post elsewhere.

[readinmom]

Hope that things look better today...

[Guest landerson]

Hi, I'm new to this site.  The OP reads like a book of what I am going through with my son and although the OP did not appear to come back (?), the responding posts were very helpful!

 

I have found that this is very difficult as a parent to go through.  My son is 16 and a junior and I have been dealing with these types of issues since he was in first grade.  He went to public school until the end of his freshman year.  Beginning his sophmore year, he was homeschooled by my SIL who has been homeschooling for 20 years.  I am unfortunately stuck with having to keep a job to help keep a roof over our heads so I was lucky in that my SIL was able to jump in and help.  But beginning his Junior year, I enrolled him in a homeschool group that meets twice per week and the other days, he is supposed to be working on his studies.  Unfortunately, I have to rely on him to be somewhat disciplined to do this during the day.  I am only able to verify his school work after I get home from work and on the weekends.  It has been very difficult to deal with these issues.

 

My son scores very high on standardized testing, well into the above average range.  He is in the 99th percentile on Science and the 91st in Math yet it is like pulling teeth to get him to HAND his homework in.  All of his teachers, public and homeschool, have said he is an A student if he would only complete the work/hand it in.  We have worked over and over with him on organizational skills yet he cannot get organized.  For lack of a better way to put this, I feel spent.  I am at my wit's end and I feel like after 10 years of dealing with these issues and dealing with teachers, I just cannot take it anymore.  I totally do not understand doing homework and then either losing it or not handing it in. 

 

The public schools wanted him on meds.  Our DR put him on ADHD meds which did absolutely nothing other than make him sick.  He was on a variety of these meds for several years.  These issues did not improve.  I have spoken with the parents of other kids diagnosed with ADD and they rave about how wonderful the meds are and how great they worked for their children.  Definitely did not work for us.  I do not believe he has ADD.  I was concerned that maybe this was an issue with depression so i took him to a counselor and he is adamant that he is not depressed nor does he want to speak with a counselor.  He feels a counselor is a waste of his time.

 

My son is a fun, bright, happy person who is very smart and gets along well with us (most of the time).  His teachers call him a "delightful student".  This morning I saw that his biology grade has dropped from an 83 to a 66.  Very disheartening to see this first thing in the morning and it appears this was due to homework not being turned in.  I check his homework to ensure it is done but I cannot go to school with him to make sure he hands it in and frankly, I don't think I should have to do that.  Very frustrating!!!!!  Many times we have fought over homework.  The plan beginning this Summer was to do dual enrollment for his senior year and after seeing this grade drop this morning, I had all but decided that I would not pay for any more classes including college.  I feel like doing a dual enrollment would be a waste of time and money.  After reading some of the responses here, I am rethinking that.

 

Honestly, I really am at a loss and do not know what to do.  I don't think he entirely understands why he does this and I don't think he necessarily does it on purpose.  I see so much potential and I have a lot of fear that he will live a very hard and unhappy life and I realize that I cannot control that but I feel as a parent, it is my job to do the best I can to try and get him through this and to try and change this behavior while he is a minor.  I'm not having a lot of luck on doing that.  I do not want a 25 year old living in my basement who is unable to keep a job and plays video games all day.  We have tried the reward/punishment path.  I have taken away everything there is to take away.  He has nothing left to take away.  I promised him a brand new computer of his choice up to $1500 at the end of this school year if he just made Bs.  He has blown that and will not get a new computer.  The computer he currently has he cannot use without us entering a password and that is only done at this point for school related work since he lost the personal use of his computer months ago.

 

I am wondering if my best choice at this point is for him to try and get a GED.  I really just don't know what to do.  I feel like we have tried everything and nothing has worked.  I am so tired of listening to my co-workers talk about how their kids are in pre-med programs or are away at college and doing great or are making the honor roll AGAIN in high school.  It's not that I am trying to keep up with the Jones but more that I don't understand why I can't get him to take control of this and to at least make SOME progress.  He got a fresh start with the homeschool groups and he is now blowing that.

 

  :(

 

[Jenny in Florida]

 The plan beginning this Summer was to do dual enrollment for his senior year and after seeing this grade drop this morning, I had all but decided that I would not pay for any more classes including college.  I feel like doing a dual enrollment would be a waste of time and money.  After reading some of the responses here, I am rethinking that.

 

 

I can tell you that I was one of those underachievers. I have vivid memories of my school guidance counselor calling me into his office, reading me my standardized test scores and then just asking me, "So, why?"

 

In my case, a lot of the problem had to do with the fact that I knew perfectly well that high school was a waste of my time and energy. It felt like I was being kept in storage until the world decreed that, based on an arbitrary fact like my chronological age, I was ready to go do something real. I skipped classes, got into trouble and eventually ended up so far behind that I would not have been allowed to graduate with my class.

 

At that point, my parents agreed to allow me to do what I had wanted to do for some time: take the California State High School Proficiency Exam and leave high school.

 

I took the exam in October (as soon as I turned 16 and was eligible), passed, finished the semester at the high school and started classes at the community college the following Monday morning. It was, without a doubt, the best thing that could have happened for me at that point in my life. College felt "real" and "important" in a way that killing time in high school simply hadn't for me. I was treated like a reasonable adult. I had some say in what classes I took, and I was responsible for choosing to go to them or not. My grades were very good, and, although I took a somewhat circuitous route due to some personal issues, I eventually transferred to a four-year university and finished my B.A. when I was 21.

 

If dual enrollment is an option for your son -- or even getting a GED and then enrolling at the community college as a regular student -- it may well be worth exploring.

[foxbridgeacademy]

:iagree:

I also tested exceptionally well on ST's (except for Math) I was always in the 98-99 percentile. My grades were atrocious, so my parents pulled me out to "homeschool" me. It might have worked if they weren't about to be divorced and I'd had a better attitude.  Instead I ended up getting a GED and going to University (on my own dime).  I loved College just about as much as I hated High School.  I didn't HAVE to be there, but I wanted to. I was treated like an adult, like my ideas and opinions mattered.  If I didn't get an assignment done, no one raked me over the coals, so I ended up trying harder.  Professors liked talking to me about obscure and crazy things, I was valued.  I did benefit from taking a couple years off between H.S. and College, helped me mature and realize what I wanted out of life.

[creekland]

 

My son scores very high on standardized testing, well into the above average range.  He is in the 99th percentile on Science and the 91st in Math yet it is like pulling teeth to get him to HAND his homework in.  All of his teachers, public and homeschool, have said he is an A student if he would only complete the work/hand it in.  We have worked over and over with him on organizational skills yet he cannot get organized.  For lack of a better way to put this, I feel spent.  I am at my wit's end and I feel like after 10 years of dealing with these issues and dealing with teachers, I just cannot take it anymore.  I totally do not understand doing homework and then either losing it or not handing it in. 

...

My son is a fun, bright, happy person who is very smart and gets along well with us (most of the time).  His teachers call him a "delightful student".  This morning I saw that his biology grade has dropped from an 83 to a 66.  Very disheartening to see this first thing in the morning and it appears this was due to homework not being turned in. 

 

Your guy and my youngest (now a senior) sound like they are from the same mold, except mine is a little different with his standardized test scores as those subjects aren't his best (he's still well above average without studying, because, of course, I couldn't convince him to do so).

 

My guy will do wonderfully on anything that interests him and is always a "pleasure to have in class," but "has difficulty completing work."  He just doesn't grasp the importance of busy-work (which is what homework is to him) and therefore, it is difficult for him to put it up toward the top on his "to care about" list.  It's frustrating - esp since my older two were nothing like him in this aspect.

 

I was sort of the same way, except once I realized high school was my ticket out of town, I excelled at it - even subjects/tasks I didn't care for.

 

I hated high school.  I loved college.  I'm hoping my guy will excel once he's in college classes where there is less busy-work (hopefully) and more of what he likes to do.

 

Time will tell to be honest... but not letting him go to college (since he's capable and wants to) gives him no opportunity to improve or have that piece of paper that can be very important for many jobs, so we're going to see where it leads rather than closing that path off.

 

I wish you the best.  I've learned to let go of grades (mostly).  I remind myself that people skills are equally (or more) important to success in life and he's really good at those now (that used to be different too).

 

 

[Mama Geek]

Dh hated school and really liked college.  He just barely graduated from high school and has since had is Masters degree in engineering for the last 15 years.  He is a successful engineer in the oil industry.

[PeterPan]

Hi, I'm new to this site.  The OP reads like a book of what I am going through with my son and although the OP did not appear to come back (?), the responding posts were very helpful!

 

I have found that this is very difficult as a parent to go through.  My son is 16 and a junior and I have been dealing with these types of issues since he was in first grade.  He went to public school until the end of his freshman year.  Beginning his sophmore year, he was homeschooled by my SIL who has been homeschooling for 20 years.  I am unfortunately stuck with having to keep a job to help keep a roof over our heads so I was lucky in that my SIL was able to jump in and help.  But beginning his Junior year, I enrolled him in a homeschool group that meets twice per week and the other days, he is supposed to be working on his studies.  Unfortunately, I have to rely on him to be somewhat disciplined to do this during the day.  I am only able to verify his school work after I get home from work and on the weekends.  It has been very difficult to deal with these issues.

 

My son scores very high on standardized testing, well into the above average range.  He is in the 99th percentile on Science and the 91st in Math yet it is like pulling teeth to get him to HAND his homework in.  All of his teachers, public and homeschool, have said he is an A student if he would only complete the work/hand it in.  We have worked over and over with him on organizational skills yet he cannot get organized.  For lack of a better way to put this, I feel spent.  I am at my wit's end and I feel like after 10 years of dealing with these issues and dealing with teachers, I just cannot take it anymore.  I totally do not understand doing homework and then either losing it or not handing it in. 

 

The public schools wanted him on meds.  Our DR put him on ADHD meds which did absolutely nothing other than make him sick.  He was on a variety of these meds for several years.  These issues did not improve.  I have spoken with the parents of other kids diagnosed with ADD and they rave about how wonderful the meds are and how great they worked for their children.  Definitely did not work for us.  I do not believe he has ADD.  I was concerned that maybe this was an issue with depression so i took him to a counselor and he is adamant that he is not depressed nor does he want to speak with a counselor.  He feels a counselor is a waste of his time.

 

My son is a fun, bright, happy person who is very smart and gets along well with us (most of the time).  His teachers call him a "delightful student".  This morning I saw that his biology grade has dropped from an 83 to a 66.  Very disheartening to see this first thing in the morning and it appears this was due to homework not being turned in.  I check his homework to ensure it is done but I cannot go to school with him to make sure he hands it in and frankly, I don't think I should have to do that.  Very frustrating!!!!!  Many times we have fought over homework.  The plan beginning this Summer was to do dual enrollment for his senior year and after seeing this grade drop this morning, I had all but decided that I would not pay for any more classes including college.  I feel like doing a dual enrollment would be a waste of time and money.  After reading some of the responses here, I am rethinking that.

 

Honestly, I really am at a loss and do not know what to do.  I don't think he entirely understands why he does this and I don't think he necessarily does it on purpose.  I see so much potential and I have a lot of fear that he will live a very hard and unhappy life and I realize that I cannot control that but I feel as a parent, it is my job to do the best I can to try and get him through this and to try and change this behavior while he is a minor.  I'm not having a lot of luck on doing that.  I do not want a 25 year old living in my basement who is unable to keep a job and plays video games all day.  We have tried the reward/punishment path.  I have taken away everything there is to take away.  He has nothing left to take away.  I promised him a brand new computer of his choice up to $1500 at the end of this school year if he just made Bs.  He has blown that and will not get a new computer.  The computer he currently has he cannot use without us entering a password and that is only done at this point for school related work since he lost the personal use of his computer months ago.

 

I am wondering if my best choice at this point is for him to try and get a GED.  I really just don't know what to do.  I feel like we have tried everything and nothing has worked.  I am so tired of listening to my co-workers talk about how their kids are in pre-med programs or are away at college and doing great or are making the honor roll AGAIN in high school.  It's not that I am trying to keep up with the Jones but more that I don't understand why I can't get him to take control of this and to at least make SOME progress.  He got a fresh start with the homeschool groups and he is now blowing that.

 

  :(

Instead of a counselor, how about an actual neuropsychological eval to see what's actually going on?  Not to blow your mind, but sometimes when the meds don't work it's because the diagnosis was wrong.  It could be CAPD or spectrum or something you're not considering.  So not counseling but a full eval.  

 

Btw, we have a Learning Challenges (LC) board you might like to come hang on.  You don't have to be diagnosed.  :)

[nansk]

 

 

I hated high school.  I loved college.

I read this thread for the first time today and this appears to be a common experience. I am interested to know why those who posted felt this way. I never felt like this and would like to be prepared if my dd feels like this.

[creekland]

I read this thread for the first time today and this appears to be a common experience. I am interested to know why those who posted felt this way. I never felt like this and would like to be prepared if my dd feels like this.

 

I'm the independent sort... wanting few rules and a bit of common sense to run life.  I'm not into "fluff" stuff (which to me, is most of Hollywood, boyfriend/girlfriend issues, clothing styles, body styles, and similar).  In high school there were a ton of rules and the vast, vast majority of the students were into fluff.  I was "friends" with everyone (or close to it - esp since they liked having homework help ;)  ), but had few close friends since I wasn't into the things they were (TV, movies, clothes, boys, etc).  I spent most of my free time at a local barn riding, training, and showing horses.  I felt "at home" there, not at school.  I was never bullied at school.  I just didn't like it.

 

In college there was a big enough pool of students to find "my people" and technically, there were few rules.  I happened to join a Corps of Cadets, but that was a bit more like a giant frat to be honest and I had a blast.  (I was also rather well known for not necessarily following the rules... ;)  but in leadership positions - even freshmen year - my talents were more appreciated.)

 

I'd have loved homeschooling, but I wouldn't want to have skipped college (or homeschool it).

 

[nansk]

I'm the independent sort... wanting few rules and a bit of common sense to run life. ...

In college there was a big enough pool of students to find "my people" and technically, there were few rules.  .

..in leadership positions - even freshmen year - my talents were more appreciated.)

 

I'd have loved homeschooling, but I wouldn't want to have skipped college (or homeschool it).

Thank you for sharing.

 

I understand what you said about homeschooling - that it would have meant less rules and more freedom to learn what you loved.

 

[ktgrok]

 

 

My son is a fun, bright, happy person who is very smart and gets along well with us (most of the time).  His teachers call him a "delightful student".  This morning I saw that his biology grade has dropped from an 83 to a 66.  Very disheartening to see this first thing in the morning and it appears this was due to homework not being turned in.  I check his homework to ensure it is done but I cannot go to school with him to make sure he hands it in and frankly, I don't think I should have to do that.  Very frustrating!!!!!  Many times we have fought over homework.  The plan beginning this Summer was to do dual enrollment for his senior year and after seeing this grade drop this morning, I had all but decided that I would not pay for any more classes including college.  I feel like doing a dual enrollment would be a waste of time and money.  After reading some of the responses here, I am rethinking that.

 

 

 I was this kid. Stop using delayed consequences (bad grades a month from now, no computer later, etc) and go to more immediate ones. So, doesn't turn his homework in he has to do it over again before leaving school. Something like that. Also, have a special folder just to put homework in for transporting to school. Check that folder in the mornings, or at night before bed. And love him. He doesn't mean to be this way, I promise. I swear it is genetic. My father is this way to. To this day, we both are notorious for making grocery lists and then forgetting to bring the list to the store. Like, EVERY time. I'm not kidding. We leave it at home, or in the car. Oh, and we both have been known to go to the gas station, pay for the gas at the pump, then take our reciept and get back in the car without actually getting gas. Absent minded professor! And we aren't stupid. I have had IQ testing and well into the genius range, and although my father hasn't been tested he's at least as smart, if not smarter. 

 

I guess it doesn't help to know we still do this stuff, but we are successful adults, I promise. Oh, and college doesn't require homework for the most part, so I did MUCH better in college. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and since he is homeschooled, you give the grades on his transcript. Don't count homework in your grading system. No reason you have to. Colleges don't.