Jump to content

Menu

*smh* they can't be serious??


Recommended Posts

In the Small Town where I live right now, they offer the PSAT only to Jrs and parents don't consider it important. (Most don't take it - including 'top students.') The ACT is the only test the locals know about because "[T]his is the Midwest. The SAT is only for the coasts." I'm trying to raise awareness, but it is an uphill battle.

How about the PLAN (pre ACT) test? If your town people mainly sit for the ACT, shouldn't the schools encourage the students to sit for the PLAN so that the students have an idea of where their weakness are?

 

Here PSAT is encouraged and financial aid for test fees are advertised. Less people take the ACT but libraries have all the prep books and librarians are able to help guide kids interested in PSAT/ACT/SAT/AP/CLEP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about the PLAN (pre ACT) test? If your town people mainly sit for the ACT, shouldn't the schools encourage the students to sit for the PLAN so that the students have an idea of where their weakness are?

 

Nope - no PLAN here. Sorry, OP, for the hijack, but who has been following the Explore & PLAN turning into "Aspire"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about the PLAN (pre ACT) test? If your town people mainly sit for the ACT, shouldn't the schools encourage the students to sit for the PLAN so that the students have an idea of where their weakness are?

 

Here PSAT is encouraged and financial aid for test fees are advertised. Less people take the ACT but libraries have all the prep books and librarians are able to help guide kids interested in PSAT/ACT/SAT/AP/CLEP.

 

I have lived in states with heavy ACT testing vs. SAT and have never heard the PLAN discussed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This issue frustrates me a bit when public schools get trashed on here.  I think many homeschoolers who have high standards (typically the people who post on boards like this) truly don't realize how slack so many homeschoolers are.  What I've seen locally is that there doesn't seem to be much of a spectrum among homeschoolers.  They tend to be either very rigorous in their expectations or . . . . not.  So while some public schools are failing their students, so are some homeschools.

 

I try not to be overly harsh, but I did start homeschooling my child because he was being bullied and the ps blamed him. Then I got him home and found out that at halfway through sixth grade, he had a shaky third grade understanding of math. I have even more experience because my older son is about to graduate from that same system. (He survived the indifference of the school towards bullying by fighting back.)  We almost started homeschooling him too because he was so bored, but we found another magnet program that was more challenging. So it's a struggle. Most homeschoolers in our county live a long drive from our house, so I haven't been able to form opinions about them. I'm more ignorant than anything.

 

 

When my son went back in to PS in 8th grade, the guidance counselor there said he was the first homeschooler she had met that was prepared, and overly so, for school.  All the rest had been at least 2 years behind in math and reading.  I don't know how many she had seen, or how long she'd been doing the job - but I can't say it surprised me....  I did tell her that usually the ones who are doing well decide to keep going through high school - so she wouldn't be seeing them anyway,,,,

 

I know one theory is that lots of the kids returning are the "failed" homeschoolers; I have no idea if that's true, though it doesn't mitigate the damage done to the kids. I did hear the same thing from a friend when her divorce prompted her daughter's return to public school. They were also shocked about how well schooled her daughter had been. 

 

Yes, she may indeed be angry.  ...

 

But I also have taught college students who were angry at the local schools for not preparing them well.

 

Bad education is just bad.  Period.

 

My younger son is struggling with anger already. We had to restart math at 1st grade level when he was in 7th grade. We may be taking an extra year before high school graduation so we can make up for that huge math deficit. The upside is that we're working on fixing this now, before he graduates and goes out on his own. 

 

This is horrible.

 

So how does a school become highly ranked yet turn out these kids? Is the ranking based upon state tests, and those tests are disconnected from college entrance exams? Are the schools riding on their reputations from when they were good? 

 

I've wondered about this too. My older son started high school at a supposedly "highly ranked" school. Ninth grade was a total loss; he was in all honors courses and still bored. The high school in our attendance zone is considered one of the "bad" schools; it's hard for me to imagine what kind of education is going on there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Popping over from K-8 board...I could never have imagine before, how different cultural influences of the area in which you live, play such a HUGE part in homeschooling goals.

 

I used to live in NJ as a teen.  Everyone was expected to go to college.  State colleges were the acceptable norm and if you were smart or rich you might do different. There was no question as to college.

 

I lived in South Florida for 14 years.  About 30% of homeschoolers there weren't even concerned about college. Even among the more academic homeschoolers, the usual talk (and I lived there in the homeschool community for 14 years and am a very gregarious person, so I really think this is an accurate sampling!) ...The talk would be about making learning "fun."  In fact the whole talk of childhood itself revolved around "fun."  Parents would take their children to Disney quite often, and entertain them constantly with trips to Bounce House places, and the talk about curricula would usually be whether the child liked it.  

 

Moved to the Bay Area of California 5 months ago.  Here EVERYONE talks all the time about preparing for competition in the college and career world.  I NEVER hear parents talk about whether the schooling is "fun."  I hear words like, "effective,"  and "rigorous," and "full of depth." People enroll their kids in sports and activities based on the benefits of health, whether the child seems to have a future in it, etc.  People rarely discuss "talent."  Especially my Asian friends seem to stress work ethic and long term commitment.  

 

I think the culture, educationally, in South Florida wasn't too bad.  If you wanted opportunities you could find them.  But then again here, it's on the other side of the balance- you are in a hot bed of extremely high achieving parents and kids, who spend their whole childhood preparing for adulthood.

 

Anyway...the point is- that I was surprised how different cultures are right here in the same country.  I never knew it was that varied.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyway...the point is- that I was surprised how different cultures are right here in the same country.  I never knew it was that varied.

 

It varies in the public schools too - not all that differently than what you've seen.  I've lived in NY, VA, RI, FL, and PA.  It's not necessarily a variance by state as much as it is by the direct local area and school.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am around two distinct groups on a regular basis.  The first group, I am embarassed to say, is mostly faith-focused families. (Which I consider our family to be.)  I agree with the poster who said it is especially frustrating when "low academic standards" is somehow presented as more Godly.  Ugh.  In that group I stand out as a "school nazi", although I am not especially rigorous!

 

The other group is a homeschool Science Olympiad team.  In that group, I'm the slacker and the "relaxed" homeschooler. 

 

These groups are both in the same area.  I hope it is not a sad trend to see more faith-focused families tied to lower standards. 

 

DD at this stage is leaning toward CC, which has no requirements locally.  However, I am following the state college guidelines for high school.  I don't really care if she wants to go to CC - that's fine.  If she changes her plans or her mind, she needs to be prepared for whatever she wants to do.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am around two distinct groups on a regular basis.  The first group, I am embarassed to say, is mostly faith-focused families. (Which I consider our family to be.)  I agree with the poster who said it is especially frustrating when "low academic standards" is somehow presented as more Godly.  Ugh.  In that group I stand out as a "school nazi", although I am not especially rigorous!

 

Yes, I pretty much keep my mouth shut around faith-focused families including our homeschooling relatives. I don't know why some fun, character-development, and academics can't co-exist with faith.  Among our all of our homeschooling friends and relatives, I only know of one with students the age of mine who is pursuing aggressive academics with a classical bent.

 

Sometimes you just have to go it alone!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I pretty much keep my mouth shut around faith-focused families including our homeschooling relatives. I don't know why some fun, character-development, and academics can't co-exist with faith.  Among our all of our homeschooling friends and relatives, I only know of one with students the age of mine who is pursuing aggressive academics with a classical bent.

 

Sometimes you just have to go it alone!

 

But then, I see the large unschooling group among my secular homeschooling friends. And the constant mantra "not everybody has to go to college" which serves as a blanket excuse for "relaxed" education that has students years behind in math - the parents "never needed it", and kids should not be made to do schoolwork if they do not choose so because that would crush their spirit.

I know of NO other homeschooling family IRL that pursues an education even remotely resembling our academic expectations. We are alone in this, very alone.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I know of NO other homeschooling family IRL that pursues an education even remotely resembling our academic expectations. We are alone in this, very alone.

 

That's what led me to finding the Hive...  I think there's a nice mix of homeschoolers on here - and tons of experience to glean from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I know of NO other homeschooling family IRL that pursues an education even remotely resembling our academic expectations. We are alone in this, very alone.

 

Since I live in one of those hotbeds of extremely high achieving kids and do not see any other kind around me, I am puzzled as to how the families that do not expect their kids to go to college think that their kids are going to build a good future in adulthood - I mean what kind of career path or livelihood do these parents foresee for their kids? And what kind of career path do these kids foresee for themselves? I am curious if these kids know how competitive the real world is and if they think that they have the tools to handle a life, careers and uncertainties that being on their own bring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We don't have a very large homeschooling group here, but most of the members I have talked to in any detail seem to have very vigorous educational programs for their kids.  However, at lunch last week, one woman was saying how hard it was for her to deal with math, her children really struggle in this subject too, and she has given up.  She told them if they decide to go to college, they will have to find one that will allow them to take remedial math courses to catch up.  I asked where they were in math (both are technically high schoolers and one is 10th grade) and she said the oldest is still trying to get through 7th grade math...she was laughing about it.  Honestly, it shocked me that she was so cavalier.  

 

I gently suggested that maybe the kids might need some remediation and offered options for things she could do to help (my own daughter being dyscalculic I know how hard that road can be, but I can't imagine just giving up) and she just wasn't interested at all.  I then pointed out that she wasn't following State requirements for math credits for high school graduation if she let them quite at 7th grade math but there might still be time to turn things around if she could get them some help, perhaps something that didn't involve her teaching them since she wasn't comfortable with the subject, maybe an outside tutor or something like Teaching Textbooks or Thinkwell or Khan Academy that would teach the subjects for her, etc.  Again, she seemed dismissive of my concerns and offers of support.  Two other mothers vocally supported her decision and seemed irritated that I didn't immediately tell her she was doing the right thing.  Ugh!

 

On the flip side, another homeschooler I am friends with had to put her kids back in our local elementary school after homeshooling for a couple of years and then they pulled them out again after half a year because the academics were so surface oriented.  No depth and no details, rushing from one topic to the next and very little review of previous topics.  There was also a lot of wasted time in class on discipline and administrative issues.  They realized that they could cover far more in far less time and in much more depth (mastery level learning) than what was being taught at the local school.  Also, the middle school had a scandal involving cheerleaders and the middle school sports jocks that also alarmed then since their eldest would be heading into middle school the next year (let's just say money exchanged hands between several children for activities no middle schooler should even know how to do).

 

It makes me wonder how many kids on both sides  of this coin are really getting a quality education and what could possibly be done about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

It makes me wonder how many kids on both sides  of this coin are really getting a quality education and what could possibly be done about it.

This.  It happens in all types of schooling.  Just yesterday another teacher and I were talking about the lack of being willing to try to think in our high school kids today compared to just 10 years ago.

 

We were wondering how much Google, Twitter, and texting were affecting their brains.  I think it's a real problem with real, physical, effects.  Kids are not learning to learn.  They are now used to being able to look anything up at their fingertips, then copying vs learning.  What they spent a whole class period on yesterday won't be remembered at all today - and they don't care.  If they can't instantly get an answer to something, they'll sit and wait to be told the answer rather than trying to figure anything out.  If they aren't told the answer, they have no problem just skipping it.

 

A math teacher tried an experiment with one of her classes.  She took one of her tests, added the word "Practice" to it and gave it to the kids as a take home assignment that they had a week to complete.  She told them it might be graded.  She offered assistance for any of the questions and asked a few times in class if anyone had questions.

 

Then, after collection (same day), she gave them the EXACT same thing as their test - not even number changes.  She was correcting them yesterday.  She hadn't yet finished, but few had great grades and some had failed.

 

But she is responsible since she's the teacher.

 

Something is wrong.  Classes were never dumbed down like this - and how much more can they be dumbed down?

 

She did the experiment to show admin what's going on...

 

Short of letting many kids fail (not an option with school grading and such), what can be done?

 

Math tutoring is offered many times at school and they'll even work around a specific schedule if requested.  It's free. Few come.  Few care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what led me to finding the Hive...  I think there's a nice mix of homeschoolers on here - and tons of experience to glean from.

 

The mix is one reason why I keep coming back- even though my last child is no longer homeschooling and will graduate from high school this year. I found this group very early in its existence, 1999?, when I was looking for curriculum to challenge my very bright oldest child. My younger two children are bright but also have learning challenges and I've had to learn to filter recommendations according to their needs. Although there are high expectations here, as long as people learn to "hear" messages in their context and evaluate what is said according to their own child's needs, there is so much to learn here about curriculum and teaching.  

 

As far as the culture amongst groups of people of Christian faith, like someone else said, I've found culture to vary dramatically amongst groups even in the same region. In the city near us, the Christian co-ops tend to be academically focused, with some variation in amount of rigor. It is an area with several colleges and universities, which I'm sure affects attitudes. In addition, homeschoolers who are Christian come from all streams of historic Christianity and the largest homeschool groups reflect that. In the county to the north, the support group (at least 13 yrs ago) had some families (though not all) that did not encourage academics for girls. That was a foreign concept to us and since I was looking for peers for my very academically oriented teenaged daughter, we moved on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mix is one reason why I keep coming back- even though my last child is no longer homeschooling and will graduate from high school this year.

We're in a similar position.  My homeschooling days officially ended two years ago when middle son graduated since youngest went back to ps.

 

I've enjoyed the camaraderie here too much to leave and still glean info from folks for all sorts of situations.  Of course, there may be some who wish I would leave, but... I'm not really sure when that will actually happen.  ;) 

 

I've also seen the vast variety in the Christian homeschooling world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Creekland, you are a wealth of information - you can't leave!   We all learn from those who have btdt.  :001_smile:

 

To add some thoughts on the topic, Christians, or any other faith group, don't have the corner market on fluffy education and low standards.   It is very frustrating to watch a young person's potential go untapped.  But at the same time, I would NOT want to see more regulations to make sure everyone is homeschooling to the same standards.  I think it's safe to say that the majority of homeschoolers are getting a good education.  Depending upon the school district, individual school, and individual teachers,  I'm not sure the same could be said of public schoolers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This.  It happens in all types of schooling.  Just yesterday another teacher and I were talking about the lack of being willing to try to think in our high school kids today compared to just 10 years ago.

 

We were wondering how much Google, Twitter, and texting were affecting their brains.  I think it's a real problem with real, physical, effects.  Kids are not learning to learn.  They are now used to being able to look anything up at their fingertips, then copying vs learning.  What they spent a whole class period on yesterday won't be remembered at all today - and they don't care.  If they can't instantly get an answer to something, they'll sit and wait to be told the answer rather than trying to figure anything out.  If they aren't told the answer, they have no problem just skipping it.

 

A math teacher tried an experiment with one of her classes.  She took one of her tests, added the word "Practice" to it and gave it to the kids as a take home assignment that they had a week to complete.  She told them it might be graded.  She offered assistance for any of the questions and asked a few times in class if anyone had questions.

 

Then, after collection (same day), she gave them the EXACT same thing as their test - not even number changes.  She was correcting them yesterday.  She hadn't yet finished, but few had great grades and some had failed.

 

But she is responsible since she's the teacher.

 

Something is wrong.  Classes were never dumbed down like this - and how much more can they be dumbed down?

 

She did the experiment to show admin what's going on...

 

Short of letting many kids fail (not an option with school grading and such), what can be done?

 

Math tutoring is offered many times at school and they'll even work around a specific schedule if requested.  It's free. Few come.  Few care.

I don't pretend to be an expert here by any means, but I have read a lot of scientific studies on brain development because my own kids think so differently than I do and study after study keeps showing that critical connections we are designed to make in the early years may be being damaged by extremely structured early education where children are not really asked questions and given chances to explore in their own way to find answers to those questions but instead are being fed answers then asked to regurgitate those answers.  

 

Also, there is very little encouragement to accept a wrong answer as something to learn from through their own processes (with some guidance obviously for the really young ones).As I have mentioned on other posts, one person in particular said it was like taking a young plant just starting to send out roots and stems, cutting off half the roots, sticking it back in hard ground and expecting it to thrive.  This happens in some homeschooling environments, too, not just brick and mortar schools.  This means that by upper elementary even, kids may be losing the ability or the interest in asking questions, wanting to delve deeper, understand their own thought processes, etc.

 

 I know with my own kids what worked best after we started homeschooling and I was able to get them out of the "feed me the answers and I'll send them back to you" mentality was when I finally got them to see I didn't care at all about the grade, I cared if they were understanding the material, and if they weren't, that they weren't bad people or lazy or stupid, we just needed to review more or find a different approach.  Once they stopped worrying about just getting the good grade so they could move on and realized there was no moving on until they truly understood the material, they started taking ownership of actually trying to find ways to understand it at a deeper level.

 

I started giving them the answer sheet for them to check their work themselves in certain subjects.  If they got answers wrong, they needed to determine 1.  Did I just misread the directions? 2.  Did I miss a computation, maybe because I rushed? 3.  Do I genuinely not understand the material or was I just not pay enough attention to what was being asked of me?  4.  Did I miss a step?  5.  Is the answer key wrong?  Once they began this process, they were more enthusiastic about trying to get the answer correct, more cognizant of their own learning processes and more careful with doing the problems.  This was especially critical for my daughter since computational math is EXCEEDINGLY difficult for her.  Also, both of my kids are dyslexic.  This gives them a chance to better control the situation and find a way through it instead of being utterly dependent on me to know what they are supposed to know and when we move on.

 

I know when my kids were still in school they had some great teachers and some o.k. teachers and a couple of really awful teachers, but the overall experience with the way the school was structured was that even if a large chunk of the class didn't really understand something in any depth, and even if a significant number of students really didn't get the material at all, they moved on to the next thing.  The teachers really didn't have a choice.  This means a lot of the kids will get even further behind in these areas year after year.  It also means they learn that even if they didn't do that well on a test, the scores really aren't that meaningful because they aren't encouraged to take the time to go back and truly understand why they answered the questions the way they did and to master the material at their grade level.  Who cares?  Just keep moving.  It will work out eventually...only it frequently doesn't.  

 

When my son was in 2nd grade we received a note from administration explaining that the 2nd grade classes were going to begin multiplication.  Once 50% of the class had their tables down, they would move on to division.  Even though my own child (younger child) did well in math, I knew what this would mean for a lot of the kids still trying to get addition and subtraction down, much less multiplication and  I was appalled.  There are a lot of kids that could be great at upper level math if they had just been given the support, extra time and scaffolding to truly learn the basic computational material well.   Every child learns at a different speed and some need more time than others.   Instead, the kids that really needed the extra time were being told they have no value and no one really cares if they make it.  Do this to them every year and where will they be when they hit middle school or high school?  Would it be challenging for the teacher to have half the class move on while the other half keep working on solidifying prior skills?  Yes, but it can be done if the teacher and administration are given adequate training.  Will some parents get upset that their kid is getting left behind?  Maybe, but pushing a child forward when they aren't ready just means they will be even further behind the next year and the next and will lose confidence in their ability to learn the material.  They may never catch up.

 

It just seems to me that if early elementary educational practices (both homeschool and brick and mortar situations) were based more on scientific research on how our brains work and on actual developmental abilities, and teachers and administrators (or parents) were given adequate knowledge and training in how to implement those practices, then maybe our educational system as a whole could thrive again  Instead, many times both the kids and the teachers suffer through and the systems currently in place end up failing many of them...

 

And I agree that the electronics, when not used properly, and used too much, while other life skills are being neglected is definitely compounding the problem...our whole society is now based on instant everything, with very little encouragement to think and plan and be independent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All I can say is I'm never going to stop asking "why" and "explain this to me using other words" when we're talking about various things in my classes.  The whole "find the answer and write it down" just doesn't sink in for many.  Labs, when one is going from step a to step b to... means nothing if there's no understanding of why.  Math is the same way.

 

I love watching kids make a connection, even if it's brief.  I like to think some of those connections stick with them.  I know some do as I get to watch the kids for 4 years through high school.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But then, I see the large unschooling group among my secular homeschooling friends. And the constant mantra "not everybody has to go to college" which serves as a blanket excuse for "relaxed" education that has students years behind in math - the parents "never needed it", and kids should not be made to do schoolwork if they do not choose so because that would crush their spirit.

I know of NO other homeschooling family IRL that pursues an education even remotely resembling our academic expectations. We are alone in this, very alone.

 

 

 

I'm curious as to how the group perceives your homeschool. Do they think you're pushing too hard? Do they know your kids are accelerated learners and chalk it up to that? Do they give you any grief or support, or do they keep quiet?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In this neck of the woods I have not met any Christians who have not been interested in a good education.  They might not have been trying to get into the Ivies but they are academically oriented.  I have met a number of secular unschoolers who say they are interested in a good education but their kids are in high school and do not come close to having a foundation for college.  They may get interested and pull it off.  Or they might not.  One of them I think will be very surprised to find out that giving their high schooler a subscription to a history magazine will not be enough to say they are prepared in history.  But I then again, I might be the one who is very surprised.  At any rate, in the unschoolers case, it isn't the parents who are stopping the kids from learning if they really wanted to learn.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think homeschools in my area vary a great deal in academic intent. There is a Christian homeschool coop in a city north of where I live. Last year or the year before they offered a once a week 'class' for high schoolers to watch an episode of Drive Through History together.Several of the families commented on an email list I've since left that they firmly believed that this 'class' met the PA state requirements for a high school history credit. I can only imagine what those families considered an adequate math or science education to consist of.

 

There are local Mennonite private schools in my area that earnestly believe that an eighth grade education is sufficient. The local Amish schools only offer up to eighth grade. I'm sure they teach creationism, and while I'm not exactly familiar with the curriculum I don't believe much real science is taught beyond what is useful and practical in the lifestyle the children are expected to follow. These are religious people, and their religion determines their views on the education of their children.

 

I'm willing to say that I think those families that don't choose to educate their children at a minimum to what is generally accepted to be a high school level understanding of math, science, history, and language arts are probably doing their children a disservice, but then again there are more than a few communities in my area that don't teach their kids to that level and continue to thrive. I agree their kids wouldn't be prepared for life in a big city or a highly competitive area, but they aren't being prepared for that. 

 

As for the secular homeschoolers in my area? Well....I only know one other family and their single child is working on kindergarten this year. They don't plan to homeschool next year. We're secular homeschoolers and we try to follow a classical model. I've yet to meet any unschoolers, Christian or secular. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have had 3 parents recently say that their children who were in honors classes in the local ps are struggling in their freshman year of college. I have, also, heard 1 homeschool parent (6th graders) say she likes the curriculum they are using because there is not much reading, and they are done in about 3.5 hrs. I have had several people (including my husband) make negative comments because my 6th grader is doing about 6 hrs a day. I have only met one other parent who is trying to be rigorous. I know I'm doing the best I can for my dd, though. If she doesn't want to go to college, that's her choice. I would have failed her, though, if she wants to go but can't.

 

I think it's sad when a parent makes a decision for a child that will limit their potential. Every child should be taught to their ability until they are an adult and able to make their own decisions. It never hurt someone to be over educated, but it always hurts them to be under educated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are local Mennonite private schools in my area that earnestly believe that an eighth grade education is sufficient. The local Amish schools only offer up to eighth grade. I'm sure they teach creationism, and while I'm not exactly familiar with the curriculum I don't believe much real science is taught beyond what is useful and practical in the lifestyle the children are expected to follow. These are religious people, and their religion determines their views on the education of their children.

I am with you that the science is inadequate in those communities. However, I am wondering of the language arts and math are more than adequate based on Rod and Staff and CLE math and LA curricula in comparison to public schools in many cases. I cannot help if wonder if the CLE and R&S math takes their students farther in many cases than an average public school student even if they end at 8th grade. My two grandfathers ended school at 8th grade in the 1920s public schools and their education was more advanced than a typical high school graduate if today from I could tell since they had very solid foundations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HAving looked at R&S I can say the materials for their 8th grade books are certainly more rigorous than most ps high schools around here.  They are also developing more 9-10th materials so they seem to be expanding into high school.  That said those communities end at 8th grade but the students remain in the community.  They don't need to worry about college acceptance because they work a trade in the community and everyone helps each other etc.  That is a huge difference from a student outside of that community suddenly striking out as an adult and realizing they lack any form of education or trade to support themselves let alone a family.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but swellmomma, ITA.  This is where I mentally part ways with many homeschoolers.  We live in a state with no requirements for homeschoolers at all.  As much as I love freedom and keeping government out of private lives as much as possible - I end up feeling not so supportive of homeschooling in general when I meet those whose plans for the years past elementary school are shockingly lax - basically no math beyond what is needed to balance a checkbook, unless the kid is interested and takes the initiative to find the information/instruction on his/her own.  Write what you want, when you want to...if you want to get better at writing, you can look up how to address that.  If you want to go to college, research the requirements yourself and tell me what you need - I'll facilitate you setting it up.  I get that behind the curtain, it's a whole philosophy of allowing the child to find their own personal drive and initiative.  But I think it's a big gamble that often results in a kid who gets to age 20 with very few options, who will have a late, difficult and slow start if he or she does choose an academic path.  I see it as totally irresponsible homeschooling to not at least require the level of work that a public school would require.  Homeschooling parents get a lot of mileage out of dragging out statistics about how as a whole, homeschooled students out-perform publicly schooled students.  Many of these are old, and I wonder how true that really is now, and if the sample included a good number of kids from specific approaches (structured vs unstructured), what the results would look like.  There is one study that separates structured vs unstructured, but the sample size was pretty small.   

 

http://www.parentingscience.com/homeschooling-outcomes.html

 

Also, I have heard news from quite a few "unstructured" families that their kids choose public high school.  I can't help but wonder if the kids were starting to be alarmed by what wasn't happening at home. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I very much dislike it when I hear homeschoolers make justifications like, "even if we just sat and read, we'd being better off than in a public school." It seems like there is so much need for qualification. Which public school? Reading what? And reading does have limitations - it's only going to get you so far in math and science.

 

I think, though, that there is truth to this statement in many school districts.  My experience has been that those kids who are doing well in math are learning it at home -- whether or not they are enrolled in the math class at school.

 

That the schools the kid has access to might be doing a crummy job, though, is no excuse.

 

Even if the student has and never will have any ambition for doing anything that requires higher math is no reason to stop.  At the very least, the higher math classes give the student a whole more experience in working with numbers.  If all they ever need to do in life is be able to make change, if they stopped before algebra and never did anything else in the high school years, they likely won't be able to make change very effectively.

 

I'm not saying all people who have had calculus can make change, but at least it gives more opportunity for practice with addition and subtraction.

 

But yes, what everyone else said about stupidly closing off doors for students before they've made up their minds about life....

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My youngest is in her "13th" year of high school.  She's been more than ready to go to college for some time now, but she wanted a bit of time to explore some other interests.

 

What *I* wanted out of this year, though, was to cement her math skills.  Due to some health issues, math was the thing that fell by the wayside (have you ever tried to think clearly about algebra when you can't breathe?).

 

But I didn't want her future closed off because she didn't get as far in math.  So we're basically doing math this year.  (She's also doing her projects and spending a lot of time with her music.)

 

Otherwise, I'd have just sent her off to college.  (Gives you an idea as to how important this topic is to some of us here.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It makes it really difficult for ds's tutoring since they don't have a textbook to look at and review what is being done in class.   He has them email him a list of topics and he uses our stash of multiple textbooks to take and review from or creates problems himself for them to discuss and review.

 

I don't know how these online books work, but apparently it is not simply like an ebook b/c the program controls what they can see vs simply flipping through the book online?????

Why is the public school system so enamored with online learning?  It's not necessarily better.  I see signs outside the schools in our county announcing the purchase of i-pads for the students.  While I think it can be useful for subjects that are convey better through video, most online programs I've looked at seem to be confusing in the way they are organized and presented.  Very choppy.  Broken up too much into tiny bits.  I like Khan Academy videos for Algebra 1, but I do not like the way they are organized.  It's confusing.

 

My son is taking one online public school class - Spanish 1 (Middlebury).  I hate it.  The presentation is one slide at a time.  You cannot thumb through it like a book, or look at a TOC like in a book.  I was told it was Powerspeak, but it seems to be Powerspeak simplified and dumbed down (compared the Powerspeak that is commercially available to the public).  I'm starting to think it is intended for remedial students, even though it supposedly was developed with k12, which I though was a company with high academic standards.  I'm also starting to think after a year and a half of online programs, that a textbook with cd approach would have been more effective & rigorous.  The Middlebury onine program also has a limit on how far ahead you can go or how many assignments you can do in one week.

 

They seem to take forever to introduce the simplest of topics:  ser v. estar; and conjugating verbs for example.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This.  It happens in all types of schooling.  Just yesterday another teacher and I were talking about the lack of being willing to try to think in our high school kids today compared to just 10 years ago.

 

We were wondering how much Google, Twitter, and texting were affecting their brains.  I think it's a real problem with real, physical, effects.  Kids are not learning to learn.  They are now used to being able to look anything up at their fingertips, then copying vs learning.  What they spent a whole class period on yesterday won't be remembered at all today - and they don't care.  If they can't instantly get an answer to something, they'll sit and wait to be told the answer rather than trying to figure anything out.  If they aren't told the answer, they have no problem just skipping it.

 

A math teacher tried an experiment with one of her classes.  She took one of her tests, added the word "Practice" to it and gave it to the kids as a take home assignment that they had a week to complete.  She told them it might be graded.  She offered assistance for any of the questions and asked a few times in class if anyone had questions.

 

Then, after collection (same day), she gave them the EXACT same thing as their test - not even number changes.  She was correcting them yesterday.  She hadn't yet finished, but few had great grades and some had failed.

 

But she is responsible since she's the teacher.

 

Something is wrong.  Classes were never dumbed down like this - and how much more can they be dumbed down?

 

She did the experiment to show admin what's going on...

 

Short of letting many kids fail (not an option with school grading and such), what can be done?

 

Math tutoring is offered many times at school and they'll even work around a specific schedule if requested.  It's free. Few come.  Few care.

 

I briefly taught Physics and one class of Psych at the High School level.  The Psych class was a mix of kids that had wanted to take the AP class and probable drop-outs.  I am a Physics type who has taken a couple of Intro to Pysch classes.  The exams were straight from the practice test in the book.  No one had noticed!   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...