*smh* they can't be serious??

[swellmomma]

But they were.  I know everyone homeschools differently, but tonight was a reminder why I don't really fit in my homeschool support group.  So tonight we were talking about our students high school plans, whether our kids are doing high school level yet or not.  Out of the 6 of us there, only 2 of us plan to teacher high school level math, heck only 2 of us plan to teach middle school level as in prealgebra and up apparently..  The rest not so much.  They all stated that what they are doing, have done, or will do is let the kid decide how much they enjoy learning math.  2 families are using MUS, each stopped teaching math after Zeta level saying anything beyond that is not needed for real life.  1 plans to use the stewardship book to make sure the kid can do consumer math but nothing else.  Now I get that unless you are headed the STEM route chances are you will not use trigonometry etc again but to not even to prealgebra or algebra 1 seems crazy.  The look on the one mom's face matched my feelings of shock at that.  I know I felt it before when we were talking about our plans for this year and they were shocked my kids were going the credit route to get a real diploma(in my province mom made diplomas and transcripts are not allowed, you have to show proof of meeting gov't outcomes for each course to earn credits).  But this was even beyond that.  I could not imagine stopping at the end of decimals/percents. Even my LD oldest boy is expected to get through algebra 1 and geometry in addition consumer math.  He is planning to enlist right into the military so no, he doesn't need trig, but I believe he needs more than elementary level math as well.  I am still shaking my head.

Seriously a few days ago I was shocked at what the public school considers high school level English, and now the homeschoolers in the area have this notion about math.  I am a lazy homeschooler compared to many on this forum, but my goodness this is ridiculous.  Even with my "lazy" (aka relaxed) way of approaching TWTM my kids are studying more/harder stuff than the public schooled kids or the other homeschoolers, and my kids have a plethora of extra issues those students don't have, which could potentially excuse them from higher levels of things.  I just don't understand the idea of closing doors on your kids because you don't want to argue about teaching higher levels of things.  In my province to go to university you need those gov't level courses to get in, so instead this families are aiming for small community college to start off and then transfer to a university for the remainder of their course work if they are looking at that route.  But why not prepare your kids to tackle any avenue?  My teens have no intentions of post secondary learning for years, both plan to enlist and work their trade for a number of years before letting the military pay for college.  And even then I would feel that I failed them as their teacher if I simply stopped teaching higher level subjects because they didn't enjoy them and future doors were closed to them.

So yeah, tonight I am just sitting here shaking my head and getting ready to pull my editions of TWTM off my shelf to read and feel back in my element.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree with you about options.  

[G5052]

And even then I would feel that I failed them as their teacher if I simply stopped teaching higher level subjects because they didn't enjoy them and future doors were closed to them.

 

 

I run into this over and over as a community college professor.  You really do NOT know what options you are closing to them if you don't expect them to work at the level of their ability.  My classes always have adults 20-30 years old or more who have completely changed their plans since their teenage years.  Popular fields like nursing, business, and IT all will be closed to students who can't get through a certain level of math and English.  The professors who teach the remedial, pre-college classes in those fields tell me that only a handful of students who start at the lowest remedial level in both of those subjects eventually make it to regular college work.  Most will do fine in those courses if they just have gaps and/or have forgotten the material, but that is different than having to learn Algebra for the very first time at 25 years old.

 

I don't believe that everyone has to go to college of course, but I don't like seeing doors permanently closed when the ability is there.

[creekland]

I feel for kids who are not educated up to their ability (no matter the source of the education).  Our world benefits when it is more educated.  It doesn't matter if one uses Trig afterward or not.  It's the brain cells that are developed by learning new (and different - not just math or academics) things that carries over into adulthood and are there for using for the rest of life.

[Nscribe]

I see kids with real challenges and their parents facing really tough decisions about how to help them build a sustainable life.  I admire them and how they strive in the face of the challenge.  When I see parents of kids who are able walk away from the work of assuring they can be prepared I get angry.  Sometimes they just don't want to be the enforcer of standards but are unwilling to let anyone else do it either.  That just makes me cringe. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I see kids with real challenges and their parents facing really tough decisions about how to help them build a sustainable life. I admire them and how they strive in the face of the challenge. When I see parents of kids who are able walk away from the work of assuring they can be prepared I get angry. Sometimes they just don't want to be the enforcer of standards but are unwilling to let anyone else do it either. That just makes me cringe.

I agree. It frustrates me more (if that's possible) when I hear people of my general faith background hold up low standards as somehow more godly.

[Pawz4me]

This issue frustrates me a bit when public schools get trashed on here.  I think many homeschoolers who have high standards (typically the people who post on boards like this) truly don't realize how slack so many homeschoolers are.  What I've seen locally is that there doesn't seem to be much of a spectrum among homeschoolers.  They tend to be either very rigorous in their expectations or . . . . not.  So while some public schools are failing their students, so are some homeschools.

[Nscribe]

This issue frustrates me a bit when public schools get trashed on here.  I think many homeschoolers who have high standards (typically the people who post on boards like this) truly don't realize how slack so many homeschoolers are.  What I've seen locally is that there doesn't seem to be much of a spectrum among homeschoolers.  They tend to be either very rigorous in their expectations or . . . . not.  So while some public schools are failing their students, so are some homeschools.

I know a lot of people who work in the system who would agree with you and can cite example after example of the homeschool kids they encounter once it fails.  The reasonable ones go on to note they ones who enter school without problems don't stand out and thus are not noticed and the ones making it work at home they don't see.

 

The issue for me, in part, is about ultimately paying the costs.  The student who enters college unprepared and takes huge amounts of loan debt subsidized by the taxpayer costs us all a lot.  I am weary of college for everyone, until everyone is ready for college, and that doesn't happen enough in any educational settings. 

[SailorMom]

When my son went back in to PS in 8th grade, the guidance counselor there said he was the first homeschooler she had met that was prepared, and overly so, for school.  All the rest had been at least 2 years behind in math and reading.  I don't know how many she had seen, or how long she'd been doing the job - but I can't say it surprised me....  I did tell her that usually the ones who are doing well decide to keep going through high school - so she wouldn't be seeing them anyway,,,,

As for preparing kids...  My son has dyscalculia.  Math has been such a PITA!!!  But - he's in 10th doing algebra 2/trig.  He will keep going as well - hopefully all the way through calculus - but maybe pre-calc and a statistics class.  Point being - It doesn't matter if it's hard.  If the kids is capable - even if it takes an excessive amount of work - then it should be done.  He wants to be an engineer right now - I have no idea if that's what will happen, but even if it doesn't - or even if he wanted to write poetry or be an actor - we'd still be pushing math hard. 

Some kids can't do it at all, I get that.  My mom never managed to pass algebra 1 - it just wasn't in her.  But  - that is different than just throwing in the towel.... 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This issue frustrates me a bit when public schools get trashed on here.  I think many homeschoolers who have high standards (typically the people who post on boards like this) truly don't realize how slack so many homeschoolers are.  What I've seen locally is that there doesn't seem to be much of a spectrum among homeschoolers.  They tend to be either very rigorous in their expectations or . . . . not.  So while some public schools are failing their students, so are some homeschools.

 

I very much dislike it when I hear homeschoolers make justifications like, "even if we just sat and read, we'd being better off than in a public school." It seems like there is so much need for qualification. Which public school? Reading what? And reading does have limitations - it's only going to get you so far in math and science.

 

But I think that families who are putting in a lot of effort and who have high standards are frequently very well aware of how unusual those standards can be at times.

[G5052]

I very much dislike it when I hear homeschoolers make justifications like, "even if we just sat and read, we'd being better off than in a public school." It seems like there is so much need for qualification. Which public school? Reading what? And reading does have limitations - it's only going to get you so far in math and science.

 

But I think that families who are putting in a lot of effort and who have high standards are frequently very well aware of how unusual those standards can be at times.

 

And reading isn't going to help you with writing either, and it depends on what you've been reading.

 

I taught a homeschooled student some years ago who confessed that he read mostly outdoor and home repair magazines in high school because his family subscribed to the "just reading" philosophy without specifying what they read.

 

He truly could not put together a sentence, and he told me that reading a textbook was pure agony because he hadn't been expected to read anything that he didn't like.

 

Yup.  The dark side of homeschooling.  It is there!  I can see using magazines to motivate a reluctant reader, but if they're able, you need to do more than that.  Much more.

[idnib]

I wrote a long response to this about a good friend of mine and the direction her family's homeschool is taking. I know she doesn't read here but I decided not to submit it because someone else might recognize who she is due to the circumstances outlined in my posting.

 

Let's just say I completely get where you're coming from and my friend's daughter is heading toward a date with a brick wall next winter and I can only watch from the outside. It's very upsetting and I'm so worried this girl is going to be very angry with her parents a year from now.

[G5052]

Let's just say I completely get where you're coming from and my friend's daughter is heading toward a date with a brick wall next winter and I can only watch from the outside. It's very upsetting and I'm so worried this girl is going to be very angry with her parents a year from now.

 

Yes, she may indeed be angry.  I know of some who completely turned their back on their families when they realized that the education they got at home didn't come close to giving them the tools for the goals they have.  And that compounds the sorrow all around.

 

But I also have taught college students who were angry at the local schools for not preparing them well.

 

Bad education is just bad.  Period.

[idnib]

Bad education is just bad.  Period.

 

I agree. It just seems so much worse when it's from your parents, though.

 

Through homeschooling I've become much more aware of the shortcomings of my own education. I don't blame my parents though, despite being annoyed they didn't realize some of the stuff as it was happening. I can't imagine how I would feel if I did consider them to be fully responsible; I think it would impact our relationship in the long term. I guess parents who send their kids to school are afforded a sort of insulation from the outcomes, for better or worse.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I agree. It just seems so much worse when it's from your parents, though.

 

Through homeschooling I've become much more aware of the shortcomings of my own education. I don't blame my parents though, despite being annoyed they didn't realize some of the stuff as it was happening. I can't imagine how I would feel if I did consider them to be fully responsible; I think it would impact our relationship in the long term. I guess parents who send their kids to school are afforded a sort of insulation from the outcomes, for better or worse.

 

I had a long conversation about homeschooling at a swim meet last weekend. The other mom was very complementary of homeschooling and asked all kids of interested questions about how we went about it. At several points I made comments about being a single point of failure and that I felt like anytime my kids don't know something, it is my fault.  I also mentioned how stressful college admissions was likely to be.

 

She made the point that even with her kids in a good, expensive private school, she had to deal with second guessing decisions and stress over school. She thinks about choices they made for middle school and wonders if they were the right choice. She chides herself for not dealing with a teacher or a bad situation earlier or enough. 

 

Life is full of choices. And the choices do take you down one path or another. But they aren't all one way paths with no U-turns allowed. And I don't think that there is one set of right choices. Nor do I think that a school building and paid teachers necessarily insulates a family from dealing with the outcomes. There can still be questions about why a parent didn't do more to change a situation or help a student work through the system.

 

It was quite an interesting conversation. She was really praising the choice to homeschool and downplaying the possible advantages of schools. At the same time I was pointing out the benefits of having a third party doing the teaching and correcting and counseling. It was pretty funny.

[8filltheheart]

You know, I used to give the other homeschoolers I know IRL a lot less credit and thought their kids would be better off in ps, but I am starting to change my mind. I am more cynical about ps outcomes than I was even 2 yrs ago. I am meeting more and more ps students that have been completely failed by the ps system that had NO IDEA that they were being failed. When I talk to parents whose kids (we are talking high school srs!!) thought they were going to go to state flagship universities being shocked by ACT scores of 15 / 16 (no exaggeration) attending supposedly highest ranked ps in the area with good grades, etc, I am starting to realize that what most of our kids on this forum are experiencing are not the norm inside OR outside of any particular form of education.

 

The parents I have been talking to here are clueless about what their kids are doing academically bc there are no textbooks. Everything is online, etc. The school's attitude is that parents need to leave education to them and parents need to stay out of school business. One mom has tried to find out why her dd is testing so poorly compared to her academic history and she is meeting complete stonewalling. She is incredibly frustrated bc they had no idea until her dd took her first ACT in May or June last yr and now her dd is facing remedial entrance into a CC. Her story apparently is now very common amg the srs at this school.

 

So.....yes, I have been really harsh in my POV of the homeschoolers I know IRL with the exception of a very few families, but i am now realizing that the homeschoolers I thought were slackers are really more avg and actually are functioning above a lot of the ps or on par at least. I think the perspective is skewed bc I associate our discussions here as norm.

 

Eta: fwiw, with the exception of our oldest ds, my kids' friends have not tended to be other homeschoolers. A few homeschoolers, yes, but most of their friends and the groups of kids they hang around are ps kids. With the exception of a few very driven kids ( IB, gov school Magnet school), most of them have been your typical teenager taking a mix of honors, college prep classes. A couple of the kids ds is tutoring in math......yikesters......no idea what is going on in the actual classroom!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Interesting point about the online texts. I suppose a parent could go online and read them. But I've heard more comments about problems with them and parents taking weeks or months to get a hard copy to use in homework.

[8filltheheart]

Interesting point about the online texts. I suppose a parent could go online and read them. But I've heard more comments about problems with them and parents taking weeks or months to get a hard copy to use in homework.

 

It makes it really difficult for ds's tutoring since they don't have a textbook to look at and review what is being done in class.   He has them email him a list of topics and he uses our stash of multiple textbooks to take and review from or creates problems himself for them to discuss and review.

 

I don't know how these online books work, but apparently it is not simply like an ebook b/c the program controls what they can see vs simply flipping through the book online?????

[MBM]

My son has used online texts for physics, biology, computer science, and a few e-books for English. To my knowledge, the physics book was the only one that only offered the material online. I know he can flip through bio and comp sci. Not sure about physics.

[idnib]

I am meeting more and more ps students that have been completely failed by the ps system that had NO IDEA that they were being failed. When I talk to parents whose kids (we are talking high school srs!!) thought they were going to go to state flagship universities being shocked by ACT scores of 15 / 16 (no exaggeration) attending supposedly highest ranked ps in the area with good grades, etc, I am starting to realize that what most of our kids on this forum are experiencing are not the norm inside OR outside of any particular form of education.

 

This is horrible.

 

So how does a school become highly ranked yet turn out these kids? Is the ranking based upon state tests, and those tests are disconnected from college entrance exams? Are the schools riding on their reputations from when they were good? 

 

I wonder if the college entrance exam results could be tied to school ranking, but then I worry that the school would discourage potentially low performers from taking the exams.

 

Sigh...

[8filltheheart]

This is horrible.

 

So how does a school become highly ranked yet turn out these kids? Is the ranking based upon state tests, and those tests are disconnected from college entrance exams? Are the schools riding on their reputations from when they were good? 

 

I wonder if the college entrance exam results could be tied to school ranking, but then I worry that the school would discourage potentially low performers from taking the exams.

 

Sigh...

 

I have no idea.   Since we would never send our kids to ps I haven't paid any attention to how they are ranked.   It is ranked a 9 and when we moved here we had SEVERAL people "inform" us that we would want to stop homeschooling now b/c the schools in our town are so highly rated.  :p

 

ETA:   I just googled.   The kids that he is tutoring attend 2 different high schools, one that is ranked in the state and one that isn't ranked.    It has 2 different stats for each school for APs. (not sure what they are distinguishing between)  One says that 37% pass APs; the other says 19%.   The other says 22% and 13%.   Neither are very impressive.  (The first school is also an IB school)

 

[SailorMom]

We saw the same back in our last town with the ACT scores coming out of the supposedly awesome public high school there.  They pat themselves on the backs, can't believe we were still homeschooling our youngest, etc., but someone I know whose son is supposedly very bright and always ahead of his peers got a 17 on the ACT.  They had assumed he'd be clamored after by top schools, offered scholarships, etc., and now they are facing the reality that he'll be placed in much lower classes and have a much more difficult time getting accepted to the schools they wanted. 

 

I'm not sure how it happened with them.  They are very involved parents and he was in all the top classes.....

[Arcadia]

 

So how does a school become highly ranked yet turn out these kids? Is the ranking based upon state tests, and those tests are disconnected from college entrance exams? Are the schools riding on their reputations from when they were good? 

 

I wonder if the college entrance exam results could be tied to school ranking, but then I worry that the school would discourage potentially low performers from taking the exams.

 

High schools are "ranked" by API scores which is based on state tests.  There are also ranks based on SAT scores, AP scores done by the local newspapers.

 

Example of all California public high schools ranked by average SAT scores done by Los Angeles times

http://schools.latimes.com/sat-scores/ranking/page/1/

 

The top high schools also host bootcamps for their students to prep for SAT.  Teachers would do the prep for AP exams (and students also go to tuition centers for SAT/ACT/AP test prep)

 

Example

" The Bootcamp is a two-day workshop that will take place the weekend before the S.A.T.  It's not a mock-test or class sequence, but is rather an intensive session designed to arm students with a go-to strategy for each question type guaranteed to come up on the test. ......... Many students also find it an ideal supplement to existing prep programs; because of the Bootcamp's timing, all students go into the S.A..T with a sense of momentum and confidence from having the strategies fresh in mind."

 

Eaxmple of AP scores ranking for California

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/08/2783840/database-search-ap-test-scores.html?appSession=073422190435878

 

ETA:

If anyone wants to see quick stats for any public high school, this US News link has a search box near the top right that lets you search by state and name of high school.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/california

[MinivanMom]

This is horrible.

 

So how does a school become highly ranked yet turn out these kids? Is the ranking based upon state tests, and those tests are disconnected from college entrance exams? Are the schools riding on their reputations from when they were good? 

 

I wonder if the college entrance exam results could be tied to school ranking, but then I worry that the school would discourage potentially low performers from taking the exams.

 

Sigh...

 

In our state the high school rankings are based on 3 end-of-course exams (in Algebra, Biology, & English) and the overall graduation rate. Since the state writes the end-of-course exams and decides what a passing score is, there is nothing to stop them from simply writing an easy test with a low pass point. There is also no standardization to be able to compare the scores to private schools or to schools in other states.

 

The graduation rate is also easy to manipulate. Our local high school has been encouraging students who are at risk of dropping out to graduate early instead. We have college-style block scheduling here (4 classes fall, 4 different classes spring), so a high-risk kid can double up in their Junior year by taking 11th grade math and English in the fall and 12th grade math and English in the spring. They graduate a year early, but lacking sufficient science, history, or foreign language credits to even apply to college. I know several kids who were struggling academically who were encouraged to do this by the school. They graduated a year early only to fail the community college entrance exams and find they were facing multiple remedial classes before they could even begin to earn any college credit. They both dropped out of community college and are floundering now, but the high school keeps its high graduation rate for rankings. Sad.

[G5052]

They graduated a year early only to fail the community college entrance exams and find they were facing multiple remedial classes before they could even begin to earn any college credit. They both dropped out of community college and are floundering now, but the high school keeps its high graduation rate for rankings. Sad.

 

Two years ago, 2/3 of the local high school grads required remedial math and/or English at the local community college where I teach.  It drove a complete rework of the remedial math sequence at the college in order to accommodate so many students.  And yes, this is a supposedly good school system with lots and lots of dual enrollment classes given at the high schools and AP classes.  The head of the guidance department gave me quite a sales job when I went by to sign up for the PSAT and asked about AP exams.

 

I probably should dig around and see what the ratio is now, but the informal talk in the faculty lounge is that it is the same if not worse.

[ks-sunflower]

I had to send my son back to public school when he was in middle school. He took a standardized reading test at the beginning of the year and scored in the 90s percentile. At the end of the year, his score on the same reading test fell into the 80s. FWIW

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have no idea.   Since we would never send our kids to ps I haven't paid any attention to how they are ranked.   It is ranked a 9 and when we moved here we had SEVERAL people "inform" us that we would want to stop homeschooling now b/c the schools in our town are so highly rated.  :p

 

ETA:   I just googled.   The kids that he is tutoring attend 2 different high schools, one that is ranked in the state and one that isn't ranked.    It has 2 different stats for each school for APs. (not sure what they are distinguishing between)  One says that 37% pass APs; the other says 19%.   The other says 22% and 13%.   Neither are very impressive.  (The first school is also an IB school)

 

 

Is that stat about AP test scores indicating the percentage of the student body that pass an exam or the percentage of students in an AP class that pass an exam.  I wouldn't be all that concerned about the first, but the later would bother me.

[8filltheheart]

Is that stat about AP test scores indicating the percentage of the student body that pass an exam or the percentage of students in an AP class that pass an exam.  I wouldn't be all that concerned about the first, but the later would bother me.

 

I dug around a little more and the way they have them listed is the 1st # is the percentage of students taking an AP exam and the 2nd number is the number of students passing AP exams.  So the IB school has a 19% rate of passing AP exams and the other school 13%.  (those stats were from 2012) Stellar numbers.  :svengo:    Can't imagine how these schools are supposedly so good. :scared:    But, with those low pass rates, it sort of sheds light on the 15/16 ACT scores. :tongue_smilie:

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I dug around a little more and the way they have them listed is the 1st # is the percentage of students taking an AP exam and the 2nd number is the number of students passing AP exams.  So the IB school has a 19% rate of passing AP exams and the other school 13%.  (those stats were from 2012) Stellar numbers.  :svengo:    Can't imagine how these schools are supposedly so good. :scared:    But, with those low pass rates, it sort of sheds light on the 15/16 ACT scores. :tongue_smilie:

 

In their defense, an IB school might place little priority on AP exams or prepping for them. In our district a high school is either an AP school with a dozen or more AP classes/exams or an IB school.  The IB school that many of our friends attend only seems to offer 7 AP courses (3 math, 1 English, 3 history/gov, no art, no science)  A pretty small fraction take an AP exam. 41% of those who took an exam scored a 3-5.

 

So being an IB school might cause the school to shift their priorities away from AP. 

[8filltheheart]

In their defense, an IB school might place little priority on AP exams or prepping for them. In our district a high school is either an AP school with a dozen or more AP classes/exams or an IB school.  The IB school that many of our friends attend only seems to offer 7 AP courses (3 math, 1 English, 3 history/gov, no art, no science)  A pretty small fraction take an AP exam. 41% of those who took an exam scored a 3-5.

 

So being an IB school might cause the school to shift their priorities away from AP. 

 

I searched the school's website and couldn't find an answer to how many AP exams.   I did however see this: http://www.usatestprep.com/USATestprep-Products   The school uses it.   I am wondering if this is why there are no textbooks and you can't simply browse it like an ebook???   I have no idea.   I simply clicked on it and read the description under take a tour.   It looks like it might be similar to Aleks??  

[ErinE]

Eta: fwiw, with the exception of our oldest ds, my kids' friends have not tended to be other homeschoolers. A few homeschoolers, yes, but most of their friends and the groups of kids they hang around are ps kids. With the exception of a few very driven kids ( IB, gov school Magnet school), most of them have been your typical teenager taking a mix of honors, college prep classes. A couple of the kids ds is tutoring in math......yikesters......no idea what is going on in the actual classroom!

I tutored a high school student (top 2%, good school) and the standardized test scores did not reflect the class standing. During our sessions, it was clear the level of understanding of subjects was very superficial and formulaic. The student expected entrance at a top state school and it broke my heart as the student was in no way prepared for the experience.

[Arcadia]

I dug around a little more and the way they have them listed is the 1st # is the percentage of students taking an AP exam and the 2nd number is the number of students passing AP exams.  So the IB school has a 19% rate of passing AP exams and the other school 13%.  (those stats were from 2012) Stellar numbers.  :svengo:    Can't imagine how these schools are supposedly so good. :scared:    But, with those low pass rates, it sort of sheds light on the 15/16 ACT scores. :tongue_smilie:

 

That is a pretty bad correlation with state ranking if one of the two schools is ranked high.

The data I managed to get digging around for one of the better high schools here is

"Academic Performance Index is based on California High School Exit Examination and Standardized Testing and Reporting results.

Total Students Tested  1,903     

Academic Performance Index  952     

 

Advanced Placement® (AP®) Student Performance

Participation Rate  93%     

Participant Passing Rate  95%     

Exams Per Test Taker  5.8     

Exam Pass Rate  88%"

 

Max API is 1,000, passing API is 800.

I did a search on US News for the data. It allows me to search by state and name of public high school.

[8filltheheart]

That is a pretty bad correlation with state ranking if one of the two schools is ranked high.

The data I managed to get digging around for one of the better high schools here is

"Academic Performance Index is based on California High School Exit Examination and Standardized Testing and Reporting results.

Total Students Tested  1,903     

Academic Performance Index  952     

 

Advanced Placement® (AP®) Student Performance

Participation Rate  93%     

Participant Passing Rate  95%     

Exams Per Test Taker  5.8     

Exam Pass Rate  88%"

 

Max API is 1,000, passing API is 800.

I did a search on US News for the data. It allows me to search by state and name of public high school.

 

I am really surprised, though.   Even amg the top high schools (not the top, but those ranked in the 30s.....considering how many high schools there are in CA, that is still high), a 50% pass rate on the AP exams seems fairly normal.   It is not what I would have expected.   Makes me appreciate my ds's 5s.  :)

 

[Arcadia]

I am really surprised, though.   Even amg the top high schools (not the top, but those ranked in the 30s.....considering how many high schools there are in CA, that is still high), a 50% pass rate on the AP exams seems fairly normal.   It is not what I would have expected.   Makes me appreciate my ds's 5s.  :)

 

 

There was a push by the state to have more students take the AP exams.

"CAPE supports the recently passed California state law SB 532, which encourages all public high schools to offer at least five AP^® courses.

"We are very fortunate to receive the support needed to give more of our students the opportunity to experience AP course work —where they will learn to think critically, construct solid arguments, and see many sides of an issue —all skills that prepare students for success in college and beyond."

—Tom Torlakson, California's Superintendent of Public Instruction"

[foxbridgeacademy]

I met a HS'er in N.C. who wasn't going to teach anything beyond basic Math and English.  She said her daughter wouldn't need it since she expected her to only need the skills for a part time menial job until she found a husband and got married.  The child was 11.  I also knew a lot of well educated people who assumed that their children didn't need upper level math since they themselves never used it.  I understand that some people will never be good at math (me) but that doesn't mean you should ever limit them.

[Woodhaven]

Wow!  I don't remember meeting home school families with such low goals!  Not in TN and not here in VA.  The families I know are very diligent and work hard to see that their children get the best education possible.  I can't imagine parents taking on the education of their children and having such low goals. 

[pantone]

Advanced Placement® (AP®) Student Performance

Participation Rate  93%     

Participant Passing Rate  95%     

Exams Per Test Taker  5.8     

Exam Pass Rate  88%"

 

According to US News, the high school we're assigned to as a "College Readiness" ranking of 0.9, with 1% Tested (AP) and 1% Passed (AP). 

 

There's no school choice here. No open enrollment, and charter schools are outlawed. You go where you're told, or you pony up for private school. 

 

Socially, private school is looked down on in the neighborhood. A friend of mine has two kids in private school and the neighbors yell at her. "You get the exact SAME education at public school! You're wasting your money! You just think your kids are *better* than our kids...you're an elitist!" 

 

I don't even know what they think of me, because I rarely talk to them. I suppose they think I'm a crazy homeschooler and my kids are illiterate and friendless. *shrug* 

[SailorMom]

I had to send my son back to public school when he was in middle school. He took a standardized reading test at the beginning of the year and scored in the 90s percentile. At the end of the year, his score on the same reading test fell into the 80s. FWIW

My son dropped his reading score as well (he took it in 7th while still hs'ed, and by the end of 8th he'd dropped about 7 or 8 %).

[idnib]

I had to send my son back to public school when he was in middle school. He took a standardized reading test at the beginning of the year and scored in the 90s percentile. At the end of the year, his score on the same reading test fell into the 80s. FWIW

 

 

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. These are percentiles, not percentages on an exam, right? So for the first standardized test your son scored better than ~90ish percent of the kids. For the second test he scored better than ~80ish percent. But they're all schooled in the same system so the kids who ended up higher than him went through the same process. It's not like he got 90% correct on an exam and then 80% correct. If they're all going through the same system, why is he dropping down?

 

I can't tell if you're saying something was wrong with his reading education that year, or that he particularly benefitted from a particular style of reading instruction?

[creekland]

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. These are percentiles, not percentages on an exam, right?

But, if it's like what I'm familiar with, the percentiles are national or state-wide, not one particular school.

 

My guy's percentages dropped when compared to his peers across the nation.  He stayed right with similar caliber students at our local school even though he started ahead of them.

[Tarreymere]

"The school's attitude is that parents need to leave education to them and parents need to stay out of school business. One mom has tried to find out why her dd is testing so poorly compared to her academic history and she is meeting complete stonewalling. She is incredibly frustrated bc they had no idea until her dd took her first ACT in May or June last yr and now her dd is facing remedial entrance into a CC. Her story apparently is now very common amg the srs at this school."

 

This is exactly the situation that is common in our area. "The kids are fine, they have great grades and we have an excellent school system. I know Teacher XYZ personally and he/she is really dedicated". Some parents find out when their kids bomb the ACT and other parents find out (like us) when their kid can't get a menial labor job at a temp agency because he fails the basic math and literacy tests. I really don't know anyone in my area that homeschools for other than academic reasons, but I'm sure there are plenty of families around here who have chosen to homeschool for other reasons. I just don't run in those circles.   

 

I know having some kind of mandated standard to measure academic achievement against is controversial, but honestly I really think it's become necessary. 

[Arcadia]

. She is incredibly frustrated bc they had no idea until her dd took her first ACT in May or June last yr and now her dd is facing remedial entrance into a CC. Her story apparently is now very common amg the srs at this school.

 

 

Just wondering, is taking the PSAT not common in your area?  Here the libraries host free PSAT/SAT/ACT prep sessions which are very well attended. 

I'm assuming if a child takes the PSAT in 9th grade, then there is still time to remediate before the child takes the SAT or ACT.

[8filltheheart]

Just wondering, is taking the PSAT not common in your area? Here the libraries host free PSAT/SAT/ACT prep sessions which are very well attended.

I'm assuming if a child takes the PSAT in 9th grade, then there is still time to remediate before the child takes the SAT or ACT.

Good question. I have no idea. We moved here at the beginning of the yr and I don't have anyone in that age range right now. No one has ever mentioned it, so I don't know it the schools give it to everyone, no one at all, or only select students.

[Lori D.]

Ug. Have been following this thread and I have nothing to add -- just that this makes my heart hurt to see low expectations steal away the future of a whole generation of students -- whether by homeschool parents, public schools, or private schools.  :crying:

[Deee]

I've had the same experience here in Australia.  I've felt like a bit of a freak in our homeschool group where most mums are from more "creative" professions (music, dance) than me (I'm a scientist).  Only two of us were schooly families, with the rest natural learners.  We now have a few more families where the parents are pushing academics. The natural learners are quite free with their criticism: boring, not creative, not social, blah, blah.  I'm a bit shocked at their naivety.  While you may be able to do some make up courses, enter uni as a mature age student, etc, its VERY hard to make up for a lack of general knowledge, catch up on poor maths, or amend a lack of critical thinking.  Yes, creativity is important, but so is academic rigour.  

D

[MysteryJen]

The PSAT is not common in my district, in fact, I am pretty sure that ds1 doesn't know any else who had to take it. So for many of them, the ACT is the first inkling of what they really know.

 

In many of the hs classes around here, tests are the smallest percentage of what goes into a grade. So you can do poorly on tests, and still come away with a good grade. In ds1's college interviews, they were very intrigued that his grades were based almost completely on a final exam. They said that was very unusual. I just wanted to be sure he knew the material.

 

It is frustrating to have so many kids think they are getting a good education and then being blindsided with test scores and college placement tests.

[RootAnn]

Just wondering, is taking the PSAT not common in your area?  Here the libraries host free PSAT/SAT/ACT prep sessions which are very well attended. 

I'm assuming if a child takes the PSAT in 9th grade, then there is still time to remediate before the child takes the SAT or ACT.

 

In the Small Town where I live right now, they offer the PSAT only to Jrs and parents don't consider it important. (Most don't take it - including 'top students.') The ACT is the only test the locals know about because "[T]his is the Midwest. The SAT is only for the coasts." I'm trying to raise awareness, but it is an uphill battle. I did find a school nearby (next town/district over) that will allow homeschoolers to sit the PSAT. So few students at that school take it, that it is administered in the guidance counselor's office.

 

Homeschoolers here run the gamut of relaxed (but not unschool-y) to school-at-home. I haven't run into any that are like what the OP posted. While actual implementation might be problematic, intentions are to prepare their kids well. (One family doesn't bother with transcripts. They've had all their homeschooled-all-the-way-through kids take & pass the GED before going on to college.)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

In the Small Town where I live right now, they offer the PSAT only to Jrs and parents don't consider it important. (Most don't take it - including 'top students.') The ACT is the only test the locals know about because "[T]his is the Midwest. The SAT is only for the coasts." I'm trying to raise awareness, but it is an uphill battle. I did find a school nearby (next town/district over) that will allow homeschoolers to sit the PSAT. So few students at that school take it, that it is administered in the guidance counselor's office.

 

Homeschoolers here run the gamut of relaxed (but not unschool-y) to school-at-home. I haven't run into any that are like what the OP posted. While actual implementation might be problematic, intentions are to prepare their kids well. (One family doesn't bother with transcripts. They've had all their homeschooled-all-the-way-through kids take & pass the GED before going on to college.)

 

There was another thread about PSAT/SAT/ACT a few weeks back. Someone pointed out that the PSAT is the qualifying exam for the National Merit Scholarship. Students who don't take the exam aren't considered for the scholarship.*  You could use the rationale that the PSAT is only important for students likely to score in the top 5% nationally. But to me that seems like a way of justifying a don't bother sort of attitude.

 

*OK, there are some laborious work arounds, but a student whose school isn't promoting the PSAT isn't going to be much help in guiding them in applying without the PSAT score.

[RootAnn]

Someone pointed out that the PSAT is the qualifying exam for the National Merit Scholarship. 

 

That's what I've been promoting around here to those who have "top students." Most parents understand scholarship=$$$ and they would love for their kids to have a shot at NM $. I don't know how many of the kids around here would actually have a chance, but their parents would like to think their kids were among the ones who could get it. I play on that in my shameless battle to get more access to the PSAT (for sophomore public schooled kids & for the homeschoolers in the area). I also push that some kids do better on the SAT than on the ACT and you should have them take both in order to see.

 

And, looking at the SAT Test Center Search site, it looks like the closest SAT testing is 67 miles away - just under the 75 mile 'special circumstances' limit.  :glare:

[BlsdMama]

Fact:  Every person who lives within a decent public school district believes their child attends a *basically* good school or better.  (Else would they really send their child there?)  I'll qualify that by saying we're talking about middle to upper middle class where there are options such as moving, driving, choosing, etc.

 

As far as homeschoolers I may have happened upon the only group of homeschoolers in the country, apparently, where most seemed to be like minded leaning towards rigorous, well rounded education.  That said, it was also a community where there are two Christian schools that are teaching or are trying to teach to the classical model so maybe there is just an awareness?  There is also a college that offers homeschool science courses.  I do not know many homeschoolers, that is true, but most of them, and conservative Christian at that, seem to be putting sincere effort towards a rock solid education.

I thought I had a unique experience here in Oregon.  Now I know I did. ;)