FLL4 for a 5th grader with no previous grammar?

[Chloe]

My 10yo ds hasn't had any formal grammar yet.  He's dyslexic so we were concentrating on getting his reading and spelling up to par.  I think he's ready, but don't know where to start.  I'm about to begin FLL 1 with my first grader, so I was thinking it would be nice to use FLL with him as well.  Can I have my ds jump in to FLL 4 without any previous grammar experience?

[OneStepAtATime]

I haven't used FLL but I do have two dyslexic kids (9 & 13).  You might want to look at starting with an earlier level and ease him into it.  Is there any sort of assessment on their website?  I tried to start my kids at grade level with Easy Grammar after remediation for reading and spelling and found that even though both had had grammar instruction in school before we pulled them out, they needed to start back a bit for understanding and retention instead of frustration.  I don't know how FLL is laid out though, so hopefully someone else can chime in.  You might cross post on the Learning Challenges board.  TONS of parents of dyslexic kids there.  Good luck!

[OneStepAtATime]

And when I mean start back a bit, I realize that you are already, apparently, looking at starting him with level 4, which would be a grade level below?  That might work.  Do you know anyone with Level 4 so you could look at it?  

 

I found that there were certain basic steps that my daughter had missed in school and going back 2 grade levels gave her the scaffolding she needed to really "get" the lessons, but it was trial and error at first to find the right fit.

 

My son was in 2nd when we pulled him and should now be in 4th grade, but he wasn't ready for 4th grade level grammar so we moved him back to 3rd and he is doing fine.  He didn't need to go back further than that.

 

As suggested by others here, I cut the spines off the workbooks and the TM so the kids wouldn't need to see the grade level, spiral bound the TM, triple hole punched the workbooks and the whole thing cost less than $10 at Office Depot.  It also made the lessons easier since everything now sits flat.  Don't know what the binding is for FLL though.

[Chloe]

Thanks!  Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who owns FLL4 to get a good look at it.  I'm overseas and there aren't many homeschoolers in my area.  I have Winston Grammar, but I think it might be a bit much for him right now.  I thought I would use FLL first, but now I'm thinking maybe I should just try Winston and go slowly, taking two years to go through it if necessary.  

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I agree.  If you go slowly, maybe download some fun and interesting supplements, do some hands on and flash card matching, maybe some basic grammar games you can find for free on Pintrest or for very little at TeachersPayTeachers and on many homeschooling blog sites, you could probably give him a great foundation in grammar without spending much of anything and make it an interesting subject, not a terrible ordeal.  Keep in touch and let me know how it goes.  Grammar is going o.k. here, but still tweaking the details at our end.

[redsquirrel]

I would suggest you start with FLL3. One thing I really like is that after 1&2, FLL stops being 'babyish'. FTR, I found 1&2 to be just right for the littles. But in third grade my kid likes to feel 'big' in his school. I feel like FLL would be ok for kids who are older than third grade. All of FLL is incremental and full of review. But, having now used R&S for a couple years with my older kid (and GWG for one year) I now think that plain old grammar is just incremental and full of review, lol.

 

I make adjustments to FLL and you should feel free to make it work for you. My kid doesn't need all the repeating things three times. I don't skip it (It will leak out his head if I do) but if he gets it right the first time I don't make him do it again. Sometimes we do have to do it three times. There are also scripted exercises where you diagram step by step. My son had begged me to just let him go ahead and fill in the diagram because he gets it. Fine. But, I have friends whose kids NEED every repetition and every step reviewed. 

[heather124]

For what its worth, we just began to homeschool this year with our 9 year old, 4th grade boys.  Coming from public school with little formal grammar, they have done wonderfully in with FLL 4.  It is easy to use and understand with the instructor guide.  The chanting, clapping, repeating definitions, I think most children will 'get' it.  You can go at your own pace too.

 

Good Luck!

[ByGrace3]

Well, I can't speak to whether or not FLL 4 is a good first formal grammar ... But I do think if it were me, I would be hesitant to start a series in the last book if for no other reason than you would have to change curriculum the following year. So I would either do FLL 3 and then 4 or just do something else entirely so that they can follow the series for awhile.

[redsquirrel]

Well, I can't speak to whether or not FLL 4 is a good first formal grammar ... But I do think if it were me, I would be hesitant to start a series in the last book if for no other reason than you would have to change cutricula the following year. So I would either do FLL 3 and then 4 or just do something else entirely so that they can follow thr series for awhile.

 

yeah that. I meant to say that in my previous post, but Grace3 said it better.

 

[Chloe]

Well, I can't speak to whether or not FLL 4 is a good first formal grammar ... But I do think if it were me, I would be hesitant to start a series in the last book if for no other reason than you would have to change curriculum the following year. So I would either do FLL 3 and then 4 or just do something else entirely so that they can follow the series for awhile.

 

Good point.  And after looking into it further, I can get FLL3's TM and workbook here in the UK, but for some reason only FLL4's workbook is available.  Just the workbook won't do me much good.  So if I decide to use FLL I will definitely start with 3.  We will have visitors from the US in late spring who could bring me the FLL4 materials.

[OneStepAtATime]

Good point.  And after looking into it further, I can get FLL3's TM and workbook here in the UK, but for some reason only FLL4's workbook is available.  Just the workbook won't do me much good.  So if I decide to use FLL I will definitely start with 3.  We will have visitors from the US in late spring who could bring me the FLL4 materials.

Yeah!

[TarynB]

Good point. And after looking into it further, I can get FLL3's TM and workbook here in the UK, but for some reason only FLL4's workbook is available. Just the workbook won't do me much good.

I have no useful input as to which level you should use, but does this Amazon UK link for the FLL4 Instructor Guide work for you?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Language-Lessons-Well-Trained-Mind/dp/1933339349/ref=tmm_pap_title_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384109870&sr=1-8

 

I don't know why Amazon does this, but sometimes you have to look under "formats" and click on the plus sign to expand the formats section in order to see the IGs vs. the student workbooks for certain books. Just searching for them doesn't always work. The book titles as listed are not always complete.

 

And here's the direct link for the FLL4 student workbook.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Language-Lessons-Well-trained-Mind/dp/1933339330/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1384109870&sr=1-8

 

Peace Hill Press also has both available as PDF downloads from their website, but I have no idea if that works as an option for you where you're located.

 

You might also view the PHP website's samples of each level in deciding placement.

[ByGrace3]

Another thing to think about...Peace Hill Press sells FLL as a PDF you can just print yourself...both TM and student workbook. I buy the workbook, but then buy the TM as a PDF and read it off the iPad...

[Dolphin]

I remember reading somewhere that FLL3 is actually supposed to be an entry point book. That with older kids with no Grammar FLL3 is the planned place to start.

 

I would look into getting the workbook as a PDF. I did this as you can print it, and then when your younger child is ready for it, you don't have to buy another workbook, just print. As long as it is in one family you can print for as many kids as you have.

[Chloe]

I have no useful input as to which level you should use, but does this Amazon UK link for the FLL4 Instructor Guide work for you?

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Language-Lessons-Well-Trained-Mind/dp/1933339349/ref=tmm_pap_title_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384109870&sr=1-8

 

I don't know why Amazon does this, but sometimes you have to look under "formats" and click on the plus sign to expand the formats section in order to see the IGs vs. the student workbooks for certain books. Just searching for them doesn't always work. The book titles as listed are not always complete.

 

And here's the direct link for the FLL4 student workbook.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Language-Lessons-Well-trained-Mind/dp/1933339330/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1384109870&sr=1-8

 

Peace Hill Press also has both available as PDF downloads from their website, but I have no idea if that works as an option for you where you're located.

 

You might also view the PHP website's samples of each level in deciding placement.

 

Thank you!!  This is very helpful!

[Chloe]

So helpful, ladies!  Thank you!