msjones Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 My friend has an 8th grade daughter. She does well academically, but has no friends. She has always hated school. She likes to be home. She plays soccer, goes to church, goes to public school, plays in the school band, and lives in a neighborhood full of kids. But she has no real friends (i.e. no one to invite to a birthday party). She has a lot of anxiety. When school began this year, she begged to not have to go -- to be homeschooled. Her family won't be homeschooling, so she had to go to school. She was so desperate to not go that she made herself throw up several mornings in a row -- in the hope that she could stay home. She is very anxious about sleeping away from home. She worries and cries and begs not to have to go. Her parents did require her to attend a one-night band trip, but she was literally sick about it. She attended a church retreat (with a lot of prodding from her parents), but couldn't sleep and threw up several times on the trip. I really enjoy this girl. I like to talk with her -- she's funny and interesting and smart. I've known her since the day she was born, and am sad to see her having such a hard time. What does this sound like to you? What would you do if she were your daughter? What would you say to her mom if the mom were your good friend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Anxiety is a diagnosable problem and can have other things going on. She should get an eval with a psychologist. It's neurological and not just a choice to be bad. Here's a little article to get you started. http://psychcentral.com/lib/when-adhd-and-anxiety-occur-together/0009860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 She definitely needs to see someone. Her anxiety is at a debilitating level. I would, as her mother, be concerned about suicide, and want her to have help immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 That is separation anxiety and likely other kinds. When anxiety is at a level when it interferes with normal functioning, a person needs help. The level of interference with functioning in this teen's life is severe. I know a teen who was similar in middle school, got help, and functions well. (The difference was the teen had friends. The similarity was the anxiety over being out of the home away from parents.) The teen still has to contend with anxiety but it is not affecting ability to function. Treatment is cognitive behavioral therapy plus likely medication in a situation this severe. The cognitive behavioral therapy will focus on giving the teen tools to cope with the anxiety. It has an excellent track record for dealing with anxiety, research-wise. The parents should make sure that the person they see uses this technique and has lots of experience with it. You can google cognitive behavioral therapy for anxiety to learn more. The level you're describing is not in the self-help range. What you are describing will be life-crippling. It gets worse, not better, over time without intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 There might also be underlying things, below the anxiety. Some kind of processing disorder would make it hard to make friends, if she can't follow the conversation well. Or Aspergers can make it hard to get along. Or heck, face blindness can make it embarrassing to be in crowds of people you should recognize, but don't. So yes, the anxiety is bad enough to seek professional hep with, and they need to explore other things that may or may not be triggering the anxiety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I just want to say that one of the hardest things for christians (if your friend is) is to realize that there's a difference between spiritual anxiety and clinical, physical, neurological anxiety. There is a difference, and to confuse them is to leave a child with bible verses to quote and telling them they're bad, when in reality they have a PROBLEM that needs help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thanks for the replies. This is what I've been thinking, but wanted to hear from some others. I've dealt with some anxiety and know how miserable it is and how helpless one feels when struggling. For those who have never struggled with it (like her parents -- who are my dear friends), I think it's hard to imagine just how bad it feels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSurprise Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I think the best thing would be if the parents recognized that it is a severe anxiety that needs help. I don't really see that in this story. (For instance, how do they know she *made* herself vomit? Does that mean she stuck her finger down her throat or that she was so anxious and worked up that she vomited? I know that it's easy for parents to say 'she made herself this anxious/she made herself sick' when it's not something the person can control.) A good parent should recognize that sometimes their child needs additional help. They can't fix something on their own. One of the hardest things about this situation is not knowing who to trust and having the people you do trust tell you it's all in your head. That you make yourself this way. It may or may not be life-crippling. I went through something similar and eventually met safe people who liked me and worked out a lot of my anxiety, but why would you want to wait to see if that happens? Why leave your child in pain? I have a lot of sadness about all those wasted years. Its hard to hear people talk about their teen years happily. I recognize all the lost opportunities in terms of college choices, jobs, fun and travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 She sounds a lot like me at that age. I was being bullied at school. Could that be a possibility? She also might just not be drawn to kids in her age group. When I was in school I wasn't interested in the same things my age peers or grade peers were interested in. It all seemed silly or even unhealthy to me. I related much better to older teens and young adults and my teachers - people who were serious about real life and their futures. Attempts to "fit in" just made me less happy, and in retrospect, I wish I had just been content with the status quo instead of thinking there was something wrong with me. So I would say, first ask about bullying and whether there is anything people do to make her feel so unhappy in school. Second, encourage her to accept herself for who she is and understand that not everyone finds friendships in school and that's OK. I don't disagree with the talk about anxiety above. It just concerns me a little when people assume that a person who has no friends in school is impaired or something. It's not always true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 That poor girl sounds miserable. I hope her parents can at least be encouraged not to force her into situations that literally make her sick; it sounds just awful. I'm sure they are thinking and hoping she will get used to it and get over it, but it sounds like it isn't working. From what you have listed she is participating and managing in a number of activities. What does the daughter want other than being home? Is she desperate for friends or is she happy with acquaintances and peers at school and her activities? Often as parents our desires and hopes for our children are not in line with their path to happiness. I'm glad the girl has you in her corner; it sounds like she needs a friend and advocate. I would never suggest any diagnosis or treatment for the girl, but encourage the parents to discuss this with her doctor or a the school counselor. Recommend they be very careful how they approach it with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 (For instance, how do they know she *made* herself vomit? Does that mean she stuck her finger down her throat or that she was so anxious and worked up that she vomited? I know that it's easy for parents to say 'she made herself this anxious/she made herself sick' when it's not something the person can control.) This is a good question. I think that at this point she is vomiting when the anxiety is overwhelming (i.e on a retreat this past weekend). It may have been different on those first days of school, but I don't know. I'm going to have a big heart to heart with her mom. I have encouraged them to find help for her before, and they pursued it once, but didn't continue. They'd thought she was doing better. It really is helpful to hear from others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 She sounds a lot like me at that age. I was being bullied at school. Could that be a possibility? She also might just not be drawn to kids in her age group. When I was in school I wasn't interested in the same things my age peers or grade peers were interested in. It all seemed silly or even unhealthy to me. I related much better to older teens and young adults and my teachers - people who were serious about real life and their futures. Attempts to "fit in" just made me less happy, and in retrospect, I wish I had just been content with the status quo instead of thinking there was something wrong with me. So I would say, first ask about bullying and whether there is anything people do to make her feel so unhappy in school. Second, encourage her to accept herself for who she is and understand that not everyone finds friendships in school and that's OK. I don't disagree with the talk about anxiety above. It just concerns me a little when people assume that a person who has no friends in school is impaired or something. It's not always true. She's not being bullied. She has siblings at her school who would absolutely let the parents know if anything like that was going on. She is one of those kind of 'invisible' kids at a school. Very, very quiet. Physically small. Nothing unusual about her physical appearance to draw attention. Very good grades. I do think she is a kid who likes to be with adults. I really enjoy talking with her and so do several of my other friends who know her. (She's my favorite little skiing buddy because we love to chat on the chair lift. :)) But she is very unhappy right now. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msjones Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 That poor girl sounds miserable. I hope her parents can at least be encouraged not to force her into situations that literally make her sick; it sounds just awful. I'm sure they are thinking and hoping she will get used to it and get over it, but it sounds like it isn't working. From what you have listed she is participating and managing in a number of activities. What does the daughter want other than being home? Is she desperate for friends or is she happy with acquaintances and peers at school and her activities? Often as parents our desires and hopes for our children are not in line with their path to happiness. I'm glad the girl has you in her corner; it sounds like she needs a friend and advocate. I would never suggest any diagnosis or treatment for the girl, but encourage the parents to discuss this with her doctor or a the school counselor. Recommend they be very careful how they approach it with her. I don't see her as "desperate for friends" at all. She has many opportunities to make friends. My take on it is that she is happy at home, likes to be with her sisters, her grandpa, her parents. She doesn't want to go on these trips, which would be okay, I guess, if that was just a preference and not no something that made her physically ill and caused such fear. They do think that she'll just "get over it." I thought so, too. But it is actually getting worse. :( Her mom is ultra-social. I think she may have more friends and a busier schedule than anyone I know. I think that makes it hard for her mom to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 She's not being bullied. She has siblings at her school who would absolutely let the parents know if anything like that was going on. She is one of those kind of 'invisible' kids at a school. Very, very quiet. Physically small. Nothing unusual about her physical appearance to draw attention. Very good grades. I do think she is a kid who likes to be with adults. I really enjoy talking with her and so do several of my other friends who know her. (She's my favorite little skiing buddy because we love to chat on the chair lift. :)) But she is very unhappy right now. :( I had siblings in my school as well, but they also did not know I was being bullied. The bullying absolutely made me feel sick and afraid to go to school. It was more than just threatening and hitting. It also included things like sharpening all their pencils and then dumping the sharpener out on my head - leaving me looking as if I hadn't washed in a month. And causing me to get in trouble and get a reputation for behaviors I would never have chosen on my own. Another possibility is that she's been bothered sexually by a student or teacher. Or cruelly marginalized because of something "different" about her. I think that unless someone with a good rapport with her sits her down and asks whether anyone at school has been doing anything to make her avoid the place, something important might be missed. (Maybe this has already been done, I don't know.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Very, very quiet. Physically small. ....... Very good grades. Very good grades is enough to get kids alienated in some schools (public and private). She could have been taunted too and no one would know. Or cruelly marginalized because of something "different" about her. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroe1 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I do not see severe debilitating anxiety in this kiddo, either. If she doesn't want to sleep away from home, she would fit right in with our family. Does the girl even want friends right now? If she is smart and witty, she might also be more mature and/or intelligent than her current peers. That may change once she gets to college. In the mean time, it sounds like her current life with extra curricular activities is keeping her quite busy. I think most friendships are created when two people with strong common interests come into contact. There also must be desire for friendship between both parties, time for friendship, and opportunity for friendship. This teen just isn't meeting anyone with all the criteria. Finally, she may be more introverted than most and need her space. Personally, I would let her mom and dad handle this, if they deem it a real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I don't see her as "desperate for friends" at all. She has many opportunities to make friends. My take on it is that she is happy at home, likes to be with her sisters, her grandpa, her parents. ...... Her mom is ultra-social. I think she may have more friends and a busier schedule than anyone I know. I think that makes it hard for her mom to understand. It can be a bit tricky for a rather extroverted mom to separate out which parts are just introversion from which parts are actual anxiety from which parts are anxiety that rises to a level that needs treatment. It's hard to say without knowing more or without having a conversation with the dd about it, but if it were my dd and she was usually happy, I'd be inclined to let it be, keeping an eye on how she changes over the next few years, unless of course she wanted to see someone about it, which would be an absolute indicator to do so. IMO as an introverted person with an extroverted mother, it is important not to make the dd feel that her personality is defective, while at the same time it would be important to offer help if the anxiety is truly a problem on a daily basis - a bit of a tightrope? (fwiw, at 45 y.o. I still bear the scars of my mother trying to fix my introversion, so it's an area for treading carefully.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBJones Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 1. Anxiety that needs meds. Counseling/Therapy. 2. Homeschool her. 3. Why don't you homeschool her? It looks like it would be beneficial. Has she been evaluated by a professional? That would be a start. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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