Juniper Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If the banks will file charges of their own? My mother takes care of my Grandmother. I cannot remeber the term, but as Gma has dementia, my mother is her "guardian?" There were problems in the past where on of my mom's sister was constantly getting money out of Gma, so now everything is in a joint account and my mother signs off on everything.Different sister came to spell my mother from her caregiving duties for a week. My mom just discovered that her sister stole checks from the joint account and forged Gma's signature on a $1500 check for cash. :(Mom called the bank to stop all future checks with the missing numbers. She asked that they just pay out the $1500 and be done with it. (I really don't care if anyone disagrees with this. This is what my Mom can handle right now and that is okay with me) The bank said it might be out of her hands.Does anyone know how this works with banks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I get that this is an awkward situation and will cause your mom further stress, but she really needs to just let the bank handle it--whatever comes next. If it was reported as a forgery, they will need to move forward according to the procedures they are legally required to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 It sounds like your Mom has financial power of attorney. Since the checks were reported to the bank as stolen, they will start the process for prosecuting for theft. The bank representative is accurate when s/he says that this is out of your mother's hands now. Maybe this is for the best? Hang in there. I know from personal experience that dealing with close relatives around money is not always easy. Thank you. That is relieving. I think we both "want" the bank to take action, but with the family dynamics it is best that my mother is not seen as the one pursing charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 FWIW, years ago when I was much younger. DH's brother stole a couple of my checks from my checkbook and forged my signature to buy electronics at a store. I reported it to the bank, including who stole the checks and nothing ever came of it. They said it happens so often, it's impossible to investigate every case. It could go either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The bank may also have nothing to do with it. Where I live, it's the state that presses charges. Victims don't get to make the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well, this is slightly different, but a family member of mine was the executor of an estate, and he transferred $300,000 from the estate account into his personal account. When relatives informed the bank of this, the bank could not have cared less. Nothing was done until relatives informed law enforcement. You would think there would be some oversight of large amounts of money moving around, but I guess not! I realize this is a different situation since it is a transfer, not a paper check, but personally I would think that if banks do not pay any attention to $300,000, they may not pay any attention to $1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Sounds like it could go either way. It is fine if it does. They can take a $1500 hit and chalk it up to learning to never leave Gma with either of her other two daughters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 call the police. File a report for fraud. The bank may not do anything without the police report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Did your mom work with an attorney setting up the POA? She has a fiduciary duty in managing your mom's funds. She has the discretion to give gifts on behalf of your mother, but she needs to be careful she's not exposing herself to liability. Possibly no one would ever challenge the accounting, but, for example, if your grandmother should need Medicaid in the future, they'll audit her accounts. Anyway, I'd encourage your mom to speak with their attorney to see what she needs to do to protect herself in this scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The bank often can't or won't do anything without a police report. But really if your mother okayed the $1500 and the bank stopped the other checks before they could be used? There's nothing to report on the bank end. No theft from the account has happened. Theft of the checks from the home would be the duty of your mother to report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 The bank often can't or won't do anything without a police report. But really if your mother okayed the $1500 and the bank stopped the other checks before they could be used? There's nothing to report on the bank end. No theft from the account has happened. Theft of the checks from the home would be the duty of your mother to report. This is what I cannot figure out. She has okayed the $1500 (or tried to, not sure how that played out) and it was the bank that said it might be out of her hands. We are not worried about this repeating itself, because they are now on opposite sides of the country and my aunt will prbably not see her mother again before she dies. My Mom isn't keeping them apart, but she was flown in on mom and grandma's dime and that is something they will not be doing again. My Aunt does not have the finances to fly herself out. I think my Mom just wants it to go away so Grandma can live what remaining time she has in peace. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If your mother reported the checks as stolen, the bank may refuse to pay out the $1500 and instead file a police report. But I would agree they can't both claim theft/fraud and willingly pay out the $1500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I 100% second zoobie's recommendation that your mom call whichever attorney helped her set up the POA or whatever she has. She really needs to protect herself from possible future charges of mismanagement of your g-ma's funds & failure to discharge her fiduciary responsibility from disgruntled family members. This is a big deal and your mother could face civil or even criminal penalities (depending on the state & how the statutes are written). I understand she doesn't want to make waves in the family pond and it sounds like there are issues which are complicating everything. But it is very important that she take steps now to protect herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Here is something very significant to think about. If your grandmother ever applies to go onto Medicaid, certain kinds of transaction over $500 that occurred within five years immediately prior to her applying will prevent her from being granted Medicaid eligibility. That is, any transaction such as this one which looks like "a gift" to your aunt from your grandmother, automatically will wreck the application. That introduces a solid reason for your mother to recover the funds immediately. If they are returned (and documented), then the obstacle disappears. Although I am writing this from the framework of Medicaid law in Texas, I scarcely can believe that other states would be markedly different from this. ETA: Find an eldercare attorney to review everything currently in place, and to advise/make any legal adjustments necessary to protect your grandmother and her assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I seriously doubt that someone who stole $1500 is not going to be a pain in the butt when your grandmother actually passes away. This is a cheap warning, IME, people who do this sort of thing before someone dies will really go to town after the death. She may be opening accounts with your grandmother's name as we are discussing this. She has all the information necessary to cause your mom lots of trouble. Your mom needs to closely monitor your grandmother's credit and be prepared to prosecute if this goes farther. It is unlikely that this is all your aunt will do. I'm sorry for your mom though. I'm glad your mom has you at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Did your mom work with an attorney setting up the POA? She has a fiduciary duty in managing your mom's funds. She has the discretion to give gifts on behalf of your mother, but she needs to be careful she's not exposing herself to liability. Possibly no one would ever challenge the accounting, but, for example, if your grandmother should need Medicaid in the future, they'll audit her accounts. Anyway, I'd encourage your mom to speak with their attorney to see what she needs to do to protect herself in this scenario. does your mother actually have a POA, or just a joint checking account? there is a huge difference. does someone have medical poa? I would go ahead and file a report. believe me when I say I know how hard that is - I now wish I'd allowed the hospital to throw my brother off the hospital premises after they called me one night at midnight to ask my input on doing so. (after they consulted with the hospital's attorney's in regards to her filed directives . . . . ) would he have been majorly angry? yes, but he also would have been more restrained afterwards because he would have gotten a message there are legal powers that will hold him accountable and there's a good chance he wouldn't have proceeded to cause as much upset as he did after she died. I also agree, that anyone who does this to a declining parent prior to their death, will be a major pain in the posterior to their siblings after they die. frequently by orders of magnitude greater. everything needs to be in writing last week. poa, mpoa, finances, who get's what, etc. including what our estate attorney came to call, the super duper nasty clause. (I specifically asked for something like that because of my sister's behavior when my grandmother died. when my mother protested, I pointed out she wouldn't be around to deal with them, but I would.) this clause made clear any child causing trouble would be cut out of everything and treated as though they died with no heirs of their own. not only do they get cut out, but so do their children. it literally has been the only thing that kept my brother from causing as much trouble as he has *threatened* us with (and attempted action upon.) as no sane attorney will take his case as they know he has no legitimate case, and they wouldn't get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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