Getting the work done- Teen boys

[Connections]

I have read a number of threads and articles about the difficulties of motivating some teen boys to complete their work in a timely manner. I do believe that part of this may be personality and not every boy has time management issues. I have one tween son that has excellent time management skills. My daughter is still young but girls may have the same issues, I simply have not researched them yet.

 

For those of you who have dealt with teen boys (or girls) dragging their feet and wasting time, please share how you have managed not to lose your mind, not to scream and yell daily, and not to ruin your relationship with your son (or daughter)- all while helping them to grow into young men (or women) who are accountable and take their work seriously.

 

A post a few days ago mentioned how ineffective a "dry deadline" is in the homeschool. Many said that only real world deadlines in dual enrollment classes (or similar outside accountability) REALLY helped their child overcome his time management and organization challenges. 

 

Again, if I have to wait for that, please tell me how to remain sane in the meantime.

 

With all due respect, if you have sons (or daughters) who have always done their work diligently and you have never dealt with these issues, perhaps you would mind not chiming in. I think at this point hearing all of the things that I could have done differently years ago will only make me feel worse!

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

 

[Mom22ns]

With all due respect, if you have sons (or daughters) who have always done their work diligently and you have never dealt with these issues, perhaps you would mind not chiming in. I think at this point hearing all of the things that I could have done differently years ago will only make me feel worse!

 

I have a ds who works diligently and is extremely responsible. Sorry, it is true and I just couldn't resist.  :lol:

 

That said, I have a dd who is TERRIBLE about deadlines. I don't think the difference is about something I did, but rather just a personality difference. Things I have done that have helped...

 

• Be very specific about expectations. I provide a weekly schedule. I break out daily assignments, but they can rearrange their weeks as they desire. However, due dates are clearly defined.

 

• I check in constantly! We do some subjects together, but those that are more independent, I still ask about several times a week if not daily.

 

• I check work quickly when she turns it in, so she gets feedback and knows her effort to get it in on time is recognized.

 

We still struggle and I'll be watching this thread for more suggestions, but we are coping. Outside deadlines do appeal to me and I hope to add more of those soon. The fact is she will always meet outside deadlines. I'm not worried about her in college. I'm just frustrated by her sometimes now!

[MysteryJen]

My ds1 is a senior this year and I worried and still worry about his time management skills. I, too, read all those threads and fretted that I did him a huge disservice by not putting him in school or community college classes earlier. But he didn't want to go to school, and frankly, we didn't have the money for classes. So, I did a few things.

1. He got a job, so he had to manage some time. His days didn't stretch out. He had to leave for work every day around 3 pm.

2. All of his classes for me had deadlines. With the consequence of dropping a grade, looking foolish for his father, and losing internet access-the whole family would lose it.  They all believed me. I was dead serious.

3. None of his homework had deadlines.

 

So this meant, I didn't have to nag, prompt, cajole daily. I just asked everyday, what he accomplished, was he satisfied, and if he was on track for the final deadline. If I didn't think he was on track, I would ask if he needed anything from me, like a tutor or a class, or turning off the modem, or taking the computer away during morning hours. I found that having a written assignment due weekly led to nagging and irritation from both sides. But having four due monthly worked nicely. No chapter tests except for his own diagnostic purposes. Just a final, with one grade.

He dropped a grade in two classes. Yes, he is a homeschooled student with a C on his transcript. But he learned. And he learned that he works well with big deadlines. And he is managing his cc class this semester very well. So far, I say darkly.

 

I still worry, but I am pretty sure I will do that forever.  He teases me that I will be reminding him about grad school assignments.

 

 

[bobbeym]

I do think DS will respond better to outside deadlines than he does for mine.  We're working out the process to outsource his writing to Grandpa and I just have to make sure that Grandpa knows that a firm deadline is critical.

 

So far, the only thing that has really helped DS take on some accountability for his work (other than time and maturity; he'll be 16 in April) is that I backed off.   My nagging about him being "on schedule" and "behind" were making things much worse than they needed to be.  He's still not where he should be according to my lesson plans, but as DH lovingly reminds me each week, I make the schedule so DS can't really be behind.

 

We've settled into a routine where he does the next thing for the most part since our texts are already split into weekly/daily lessons.  I have noticed that if I don't email him Sunday night with his list of things for the week, he'll email me at work Monday morning asking for the list.

 

The biggest problem we still have is that DH is responsible for grading because he's home all day and is very inconsistent about grading timely.  So giving a due date is almost meaningless since DS knows dad isn't going to grade it right then anyway.

[Mom22ns]

The biggest problem we still have is that DH is responsible for grading because he's home all day and is very inconsistent about grading timely.  So giving a due date is almost meaningless since DS knows dad isn't going to grade it right then anyway.

 

I do think this is important. If we don't treat the due date as real, why should they? If dd turns in a paper on time and I take days to grade it the message she gets is that turning it in a couple of days wouldn't have made a difference. 

 

My kids don't have a lot of homework to turn in either. There are deadlines for papers. Tests are given on the date I say they will be given. We check math daily, and science practice problems (for math related sciences) as assigned. 

 

I guess here the issues are keeping up with the work (even if there is nothing to turn in) and getting papers/writing assignments in on time.

[regentrude]

For those of you who have dealt with teen boys (or girls) dragging their feet and wasting time, please share how you have managed not to lose your mind, not to scream and yell daily, and not to ruin your relationship with your son (or daughter)- all while helping them to grow into young men (or women) who are accountable and take their work seriously.

 

A post a few days ago mentioned how ineffective a "dry deadline" is in the homeschool. Many said that only real world deadlines in dual enrollment classes (or similar outside accountability) REALLY helped their child overcome his time management and organization challenges.

 

Simple: no deadlines.

I am serious. I know from experience that deadlines will begin to carry weight, and will be adhered to, once they are imposed from the outside. So until then: no deadlines. I require time on task, but my student gets to choose how much time he wants to spend on which subject (I remind of neglected subjects periodically). So, if he is doing lots of physics one week, the English essay just won't get written that week and will get written the following one. Now, had I made a deadline, I would have set a precedent of shifting, putting off, not adhering  so it is much easier to say: you know, you really need to write an essay in the next few weeks. It gets written, there is no experience of missed deadline or, worse, having talked mom into extending the deadline.

Science homework must be completed by the end of each week to stay in sync with the course he is auditing - and THAT gets done, because it is not negotiable (even though I am the instructor; it is an outside structure and is accepted as such by DS).

So, he has a strict structure in one course, and all others are very relaxed. It worked fine with DD, she had n trouble transitioning to a demanding college schedule from this, so I expect this to work with DS as well.

[Susie in CA]

I have one ds who is a big time waster. We used to just call it school time from 8-3 every day unless it was Thursday when we left the house at one to go to the park. On Tuesday we had coop classes. It was always difficult for me to get him to do his work during this time. He managed to make it almost impossible for me to judge if I was asking too much, or if the work was too difficult, or he was simply daydreaming.

 

This year he is in 9th grade.

 

He still has two classes with the coop. One of those classes has due dates and he does meet them. He also takes Math at the Community College. This was the best decision we made. It keeps him accountable. He does his homework on time. And he likes the class. For the first time a grade has meaning to him. It matters to him how everyone else in the class measures up. At home a grade meant nothing to him. He also has a hard dead line for Great Books class this year.

 

In short, we were never really able to motivate him until now with outside dead lines. 

 

How did I keep sane? I stuck to school hours. We used virtually no online resources during this time because of all the side-tracking. We never turned on the TV even for educational programs. If I did that he would expect school to be TV shows all the time. We did do many active things: science projects, art etc. When he really chose not to work with me I did take away all screen time for the day. That worked somewhat.

 

 

[Connections]

Simple: no deadlines.

I am serious. I know from experience that deadlines will begin to carry weight, and will be adhered to, once they are imposed from the outside. So until then: no deadlines. I require time on task, but my student gets to choose how much time he wants to spend on which subject (I remind of neglected subjects periodically). So, if he is doing lots of physics one week, the English essay just won't get written that week and will get written the following one. Now, had I made a deadline, I would have set a precedent of shifting, putting off, not adhering  so it is much easier to say: you know, you really need to write an essay in the next few weeks. It gets written, there is no experience of missed deadline or, worse, having talked mom into extending the deadline.

Science homework must be completed by the end of each week to stay in sync with the course he is auditing - and THAT gets done, because it is not negotiable (even though I am the instructor; it is an outside structure and is accepted as such by DS).

So, he has a strict structure in one course, and all others are very relaxed. It worked fine with DD, she had n trouble transitioning to a demanding college schedule from this, so I expect this to work with DS as well.

 

Regentrude-

 

How would you deal with a situation where your DC are wasting time that is supposed to be "time on task?"

 

(Maybe you have never had to deal with this?)

 

Also, how do you define a task? is there a list of tasks for each subject that must be completed before the year is over? Or do you simply provide several task to choose from and some will get completed and some will not? How do you know when a class is complete?

 

Does the one reminder- "you really need to write an essay in the next few weeks" work with just one mention? Is this the case even for those "less desirable" subjects? If it did not work, what would you do?

 

Thanks,

[regentrude]

 

Regentrude-

How would you deal with a situation where your DC are wasting time that is supposed to be "time on task?"

(Maybe you have never had to deal with this?)

 

Oh yes, I have. If I have reason to suspect that concentrated work "on task" is not happening, DS loses the privilege of working independently in his room and must do his school under my direct supervision.

 

 

Also, how do you define a task? is there a list of tasks for each subject that must be completed before the year is over? Or do you simply provide several task to choose from and some will get completed and some will not? How do you know when a class is complete?

 

In math, we work through the book. The class is complete when the book is finished. We take whatever time it takes. I do require one hour of math daily; it is the only thing I mandate. But I do not require a certain amount of work to be completed in that hour.

In history and English, I have a long list of resources DS may used: textbook, TC lectures, original literature. he can choose from that; I give guided suggestions. Some books are non-negotiable, some are optional. by the end of the school year we will have enough hours in the combined history/English studies to justify one credit in each subject. We are done when the school year is done, and we'll see how much we covered. Worked beautifully with DD who had an impressive reading list, 72 TC lectures, textbook notes, and essays- all without a firm syllabus.

 

 

Does the one reminder- "you really need to write an essay in the next few weeks" work with just one mention? Is this the case even for those "less desirable" subjects? If it did not work, what would you do?

 

Oh no, I have to remind more than once, LOL. But I know that I could not/would not enforce a firm deadline, so I remind DS to be working on the essay and make sure steady progress happens.

The "least desirable" subject is foreign language. I don't blame DS; it is terribly hard to learn a foreign language at home without a teacher or native speaker to interact. So, that gets pushed on the backburner, until I am available to do it together with him. He is pretty good about doing his duolingo exercises, but listening exercises with the  audio CD, or grammar practice require my help to get done. Which is perfectly fine with me.

 

This may all sound completely haphazard and lazy, but it worked with one kid, with absolutely stellar results, and it  meshes well with our family style and attitude towards learning. For us it works to be rigorous in content and material, but relaxed in the day-to-day organization of learning.I have to be a bit more involved with DS than with DD, but I consider it unrealistic to expect young male teens to work independently and unsupervised. (There are plenty of posts on this board that show this).

 

Not sure if this is of any help.

 

[JudoMom]

Oh yes, I have. If I have reason to suspect that concentrated work "on task" is not happening, DS loses the privilege of working independently in his room and must do his school under my direct supervision.

 

 

 

In math, we work through the book. The class is complete when the book is finished. We take whatever time it takes. I do require one hour of math daily; it is the only thing I mandate. But I do not require a certain amount of work to be completed in that hour.

In history and English, I have a long list of resources DS may used: textbook, TC lectures, original literature. he can choose from that; I give guided suggestions. Some books are non-negotiable, some are optional. by the end of the school year we will have enough hours in the combined history/English studies to justify one credit in each subject. We are done when the school year is done, and we'll see how much we covered. Worked beautifully with DD who had an impressive reading list, 72 TC lectures, textbook notes, and essays- all without a firm syllabus.

 

 

 

Oh no, I have to remind more than once, LOL. But I know that I could not/would not enforce a firm deadline, so I remind DS to be working on the essay and make sure steady progress happens.

The "least desirable" subject is foreign language. I don't blame DS; it is terribly hard to learn a foreign language at home without a teacher or native speaker to interact. So, that gets pushed on the backburner, until I am available to do it together with him. He is pretty good about doing his duolingo exercises, but listening exercises with the  audio CD, or grammar practice require my help to get done. Which is perfectly fine with me.

 

This may all sound completely haphazard and lazy, but it worked with one kid, with absolutely stellar results, and it  meshes well with our family style and attitude towards learning. For us it works to be rigorous in content and material, but relaxed in the day-to-day organization of learning.I have to be a bit more involved with DS than with DD, but I consider it unrealistic to expect young male teens to work independently and unsupervised. (There are plenty of posts on this board that show this).

 

Not sure if this is of any help.

This might be the dumbest question ever, but how do you make sure progress is being made?  How do you remember what they're supposed to be working toward?  

[bobbeym]

I do think this is important. If we don't treat the due date as real, why should they? If dd turns in a paper on time and I take days to grade it the message she gets is that turning it in a couple of days wouldn't have made a difference. 

 

 

I completely agree that most teens aren't going to see a due date as real if we don't either.  That's why it continues to be an issue in my house. I actually skipped church tonight so I can try to get a handle on all the backlog that's waiting.  I'm at the point where I'm going to start with the tests/quizzes/labs and work my way backward as needed.

 

 

Simple: no deadlines.

I am serious. I know from experience that deadlines will begin to carry weight, and will be adhered to, once they are imposed from the outside. So until then: no deadlines. I require time on task, but my student gets to choose how much time he wants to spend on which subject (I remind of neglected subjects periodically). So, if he is doing lots of physics one week, the English essay just won't get written that week and will get written the following one. Now, had I made a deadline, I would have set a precedent of shifting, putting off, not adhering  so it is much easier to say: you know, you really need to write an essay in the next few weeks. It gets written, there is no experience of missed deadline or, worse, having talked mom into extending the deadline.

Science homework must be completed by the end of each week to stay in sync with the course he is auditing - and THAT gets done, because it is not negotiable (even though I am the instructor; it is an outside structure and is accepted as such by DS).

So, he has a strict structure in one course, and all others are very relaxed. It worked fine with DD, she had n trouble transitioning to a demanding college schedule from this, so I expect this to work with DS as well.

 

No deadlines, huh?   I think this may be were we're headed.  I think I might be able to get DS to do more writing if I be less particular about what he's writing about.

[regentrude]

This might be the dumbest question ever, but how do you make sure progress is being made?  How do you remember what they're supposed to be working toward?  

 

Not sure I understand the question: what's there to remember?

In math, we work towards subject mastery. That's easy, we work through the book.

In science, I teach a class; it's my area of expertise.

In history/English: the goal is to become familiar with developments, culture, and literature of a certain period. This year we do Ancients. So, textbook as a spine, work through respective section and take notes; TC lectures for background; great works of literature in chronological order - most important ones are must-read, and then there is a long list of should-read-if-time-and-desire. As we progress chronologically through the material, my student's skills progress through reading, note taking, essay writing, thinking, and discussions.

In foreign language: we work through the textbook/workbook/audio CD set, supplementary materials from the beginning. Progress will be made naturally, albeit slowly, through steady work.

 

I simply trust that focused time on task with high quality resources will bring progress automatically. It usually does.

[regentrude]

 I think I might be able to get DS to do more writing if I be less particular about what he's writing about.

 

Oh, absolutely. I let my kids pick their essay subjects.

I would hate it if I had to write about something I have no interest in!

I will give a broad assignment, such as "write an essay about one aspect of the Iliad". We may brainstorm, kids will have different ideas, may change their mind a few times - eventually a topic is settled on. IMO a topic the student is interested in results in better quality writing. (Once they can write, they will also be able to write about a mandated dumb topic... but why practice THAT?)

Even in her college literature class, DD is free to choose her essay topics - it just has to be some aspect of a play by Shakespeare.

[Susan in TN]

There is no sanity. Just a constant prayer that I will hold my tongue as much as necessary.

 

Can you tell it's been a very, very bad day, week, month...

[Julie in MN]

1. He got a job, so he had to manage some time. His days didn't stretch out. He had to leave for work every day around 3 pm.

 

Simple: no deadlines.

I am serious. I know from experience that deadlines will begin to carry weight, and will be adhered to, once they are imposed from the outside. So until then: no deadlines. I require time on task, but my student gets to choose how much time he wants to spend on which subject (I remind of neglected subjects periodically).

 

 

I stuck to school hours.

 

Those quotes seem like our house.

 

We definitely keep school hours.  But my youngest son is VERY lackadaisical so it was a BIG shock in 9th grade when he couldn't just chat his way to the end of the school day.  I know your pain.

 

I don't think it's too hard with most high school work to say one math assignment per day, or one science chapter every 2 weeks, or whatever.  Most textbook type subjects are parsed out nicely.  It gets trickier with non-textbook subjects.  We use MFW, so that means pretty much everything has been parsed for us, so that is one method of setting clear expectations -- use programs that have them already laid out.

 

This semester, ds is doing mostly dual enrollment, but based on the pain of the past 3 years...  Even with parsed out lessons, things change.  Probably the most extra time is on writing & editing, and I also allow extra time on anything that ds seems to need more time for.  So he might say that he's not getting the math assignment and needs more time, and I'll allow another day, or sometimes more, but of course that can't go on forever before I have to clamp down or at least do the lesson *with* him.  Once he started doing math through college, he knew the deadlines, stayed up all night if he had to, learned to finish earlier so he'd have a chance to talk to the professor if needed.  He was also learning by other life experiences along the way, such as jobs with bosses who didn't like late people.

 

One thing mentioned in this thread that I did *not* do is hand ds an essay assignment and tell him to turn it in to me in so many weeks.  I just think this is my opportunity to work with him on writing, so we edit at every turn.  Each of my kids has different writing challenges and strengths, so we worked on different things.  My youngest would just slap something on the page(s) and say he was done, so I need him to slap a first draft and require that we work on it, and then he has to use that to build a next draft, and so on.  ALL deadlines were counter-productive with him, producing the lowest quality work.  He's my kid who in elementary school told me, "It's okay mom, somebody has to get F's, I don't mind if it's me."  He's capable of being an A student, so I need to require each segment of his work, not just the finished product.

 

Even with his college papers now, we do a lot of editing together.  It's not like I write the paper, but I tell him what doesn't make sense, what needs more evidence, etc.  This is very common.  I did the same for my oldest son in public school and college.  I, myself, had college friends read my papers whenever I could.  I was occasionally paid to type and edit other people's papers in college.  I've helped my oldest and even my dh in the past to edit their work reports, etc.  So I'm just saying that even if I was working with a more driven oldest child who wanted A's, having no one at all look at an assignment until its due date seems counter-intuitive to me.

 

Julie

[kewb]

My 10th grader only seems motivated by the deadlines for the online class he is taking. 

 

It has also helped somewhat this year that I instituted the following at home schedule.  Monday-assignments for the week are reviewed. He can pick and choose how he wants to complete them.  However, whatever is not completed by Friday has to be done over the weekend.  He has had to do a lot of homework these past couple of weekends.  He is not happy.  Too bad was my response.  Get it done during the week if you want your weekends free.

[hcrocker]

My DD, 13, has always maintained that she doesn't care if school takes all day.. <Insert scream here.>

 

That said, I've used almost identical strategies listed by Momto2Ns and it is improving.

 

The area that she has always dragged her feet is writing - in every subject. I'm asking for more note-taking this year, less independent writing, and giving essay assignments when it's most important. I guess that's a long way of saying that I want more effort on fewer assignments so that the work is done thoughtfully rather than sloppily or not at all.

 

What has worked for us:

 

-VERY clear expectations in a written checklist - I give a spreadsheet on Monday morning. With work times (45 mins math) and goals (complete Day 4 of WWS on Thursday).

-Daily check-ins. 

-Better communication with DH about what needs to be completed. DD gets a spreadsheet, DH gets a clipboard with a list of what each kid needs to do at night. That's been a chronic weak spot for us until very recently, but when DH and I can get it together to be on the same page, the work gets done.

 

If she gets too far behind, she loses privileges - screen time, friend time, etc. Sometimes she would rather hang around the house doing nothing than finish the assignment, and I am trying to just let that ride instead of asking her to finish.  Eventually she gets sick of being bored and asks if she can do something, at which point she gets the "finish your work" speech. Hopefully without me yelling. Depends on the day.

 

It's a work in progress. I did a LOT of yelling last year, and I didn't want to keep doing that. I am trying to give her more positive attention and provide more rewards (surprises, not bribes). I'm hoping she starts to connect the dots, eg, when we are done earlier, there is time to get bagels in the afternoon instead of doing more work.

 

Good luck - and hang in there!

[4wildberrys]

This topic has been HUGE with our teen son!!! His sister would get up at 7 and power through her work and be done no later than noon most days. The Boy has consistently fiddled his way through a 6 hour school day in no less than 7-8 hours every.single.year of high school so far. Until I finally just lost it one day----I was just finally fed up with his dawdling and then complaining that I assign too much work. So this is what I did and it's been a miracle at motivating him to manage his time and get his work done: He MUST be up and ready to work on school by 8 am, I assigned 3 2-hour blocks of time for his subjects. Anything not done in the 6 hour time frame is now considered 'homework' and he must cut his afternoon of skateboarding and socializing short to come home and do this 'homework'. NOT ONCE has he had to come home early so far in the last 2 weeks---so I found the formula that works with The Boy. If he could find employment in this town, we would require him to have an afternoon job, especially since he now finishes before 1pm everyday!

[4wildberrys]

This topic has been HUGE with our teen son!!! His sister would get up at 7 and power through her work and be done no later than noon most days. The Boy has consistently fiddled his way through a 6 hour school day in no less than 7-8 hours every.single.year of high school so far. Until I finally just lost it one day----I was just finally fed up with his dawdling and then complaining that I assign too much work. So this is what I did and it's been a miracle at motivating him to manage his time and get his work done: He MUST be up and ready to work on school by 8 am, I assigned 3 2-hour blocks of time for his subjects. Anything not done in the 6 hour time frame is now considered 'homework' and he must cut his afternoon of skateboarding and socializing short to come home and do this 'homework'. NOT ONCE has he had to come home early so far in the last 2 weeks---so I found the formula that works with The Boy. If he could find employment in this town, we would require him to have an afternoon job, especially since he now finishes before 1pm everyday!

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Check lists and regular consistent monitoring.

 

We clearly outline what is a week's worth of work and if it isn't done on Friday-weekend time is spent finishing it.  We do set time aside for outside activities, sports, and exercise.  There is always a certain amount of down time even if it is just a family movie on the weekend.  There just isn't more if the work isn't done.  And yes, goofing off can result in having to sit in a public room to work not off on your own.

 

I can't say it worked quickly but over time it is taking effect.

[SailorMom]

I'm a "take the computer and TV away if your work is late" person.  It works well around here.  He still procrastinates, and sometimes I get inferior work returned, but then  he loses grades. 

I've noticed that he does seem to care about test grades, so I weigh them heavily and he's finally getting that he won't get a good grade on a test if he doesn't actually do the daily work well, lol.

I love the idea of no deadlines.  I think he would probably do ok (maybe the once a week ones), but I'd be the one unable to manage it.  I fully own that I can be as bad at keeping up with grading as he is with keeping up with work so I really need those deadlines, lol.  My slacking off is quite detrimental to his learning.  Thankfully I figured this out in 8th grade. 

[katilac]

He's my kid who in elementary school told me, "It's okay mom, somebody has to get F's, I don't mind if it's me."

I'm sure that didn't amuse you at the time, but he sounds like a funny kid.