On a Scale on 1 to 5, 5 being the worst...

[mathmarm]

How big of a problem would some kid licking your baby be?

 

 

As in a 3yo niece who is staying in your home for an extended period of time, licking your 1mo baby as a game, possibly to get under your skin? I have told her 4x already not to lick Jr., to stop licking Jr., not to lick him again and if she does it again she's going in the time-out corner. After the time out comment she looked me in the eye and told me "I'm going to lick him the next time we play." W.T.F...honestly? Really?!

 

I need to figure out a way to deal with this, because honestly, I don't like it at all.

I think its gross and don't want it happening, but I don't want to stack molehills into mountains, either.

Plus, this is a kid that likes to push limits...What are some tactics that I can try?

Honestly, I'm not sure that standing in the corner will work with this little girl, she is 'resilient' to put it nicely.

[Catwoman]

It would really annoy me, too! That's disgusting!!! :ack2:

[Jeannie in NJ]

tell her she won't be playing with the baby anymore

[Flowing Brook]

Sounds like to me she is looking for attention.  If it were me I'd ignore her.  I have a hunch she will get bored with licking the baby pretty quick after realizing it does not get her any attention.

[mathmarm]

Sounds like to me she is looking for attention.  If it were me I'd ignore her.  I have a hunch she will get bored with licking the baby pretty quick after that. 

 

I think that this is pretty accurate, but...she is licking my baby! and it is driving me d4mn near insane. I am not a screamer by nature but...she is licking Jr.!!!

 

I really don't want to reward her negative behavior but...I mean...she's licking him, I don't even know what to say about that!!!

Does at least wiping him up after she licks him count as rewarding her negative behavior? Or should I just suck it up as building his immunity while she tires of this game?

[PentecostalMom]

Which part of his body does she lick?

[mom2bee]

I would put a little golden-seal on Jr. skin and let her have a taste of that!!!

 

(First check and be sure its safe--my parents used it to break my out of my thumbsucking but I wasn't an infant.)

[Catwoman]

I think that this is pretty accurate, but...she is licking my baby! and it is driving me d4mn near insane. I am not a screamer by nature but...she is licking Jr.!!!

 

I really don't want to reward her negative behavior but...I mean...she's licking him, I don't even know what to say about that!!!

Does at least wiping him up after she licks him count as rewarding her negative behavior? Or should I just suck it up as building his immunity while she tires of this game?

I agree with Jeannie. If she licks the baby, she can't play with him for the rest of the day.

 

I would not tolerate licking.

[Tammi K]

Hugs. I say this Very gently as an old, experienced mama to a new mama. - Gross as it may be, she's not going to hurt him by licking him. When my 1st was about 15 months old, I nearly had a heart attack as I heard her little voice calling out, "Candy, Mama!" from the next isle over in a store. (She was with daddy) I turned the corner to find her kneeling on the floor and licking a stuck piece of candy! Honestly, she was fine. Kids are resilient. A little licking won't hurt. (Of course, I'm assuming a healthy immune system)

 

Good luck while you work on your other problem. But, in the meantime, don't worry. Jr will likely be fine. Wet and slimy...but fine. :tongue_smilie:

 

(Edit to clarify. I don't intend to imply you should ignore the licker. Ick and Gross. I do get your frustration. Just wanted to share my experience that she isn't likely to actually do an real damage. I truly DO get your disgust)

[Dandelion]

She's not doing it because she likes licking the baby.  She's doing it because of your reaction.

 

Once you stop reacting to it, the behavior will stop too.

 

I would:

- completely ignore the behavior - don't give it even the slightest bit of attention

- stop wiping the baby after she licks him (unless the 3 yo has some communicable disease, your baby will be fine)

- find something engaging for her to do

- give her lots of praise for whatever replacement activity she engages in (e.g. "I love how nicely you're coloring in your coloring book!")

 

Once she starts getting more attention for positive behavior, the negative behavior will lose its appeal. 

[nmoira]

One month would be totally of my comfort zone for licking. Once they hit an age that you're stopping *them* from putting all manner of things in their mouth, I think they're probably ready for an all-out immune challenge, but one month isn't it. I'd be wearing the baby and not giving the 3yo access.

[Wilma]

Dandelion is right.

[mathmarm]

Which part of his body does she lick?

 

She licks him from the shoulders up--his face or head. She thinks its fun for some reason!

[sunnyday]

I was kind of wondering about this dynamic when you mentioned bringing a niece to stay with you and your newborn...when you have your own toddler and then the newborn comes along as #2, you're a bit inured. This situation, on the other hand, is definitely rife with opportunities to throw your postpartum hormones into a tizzy and stretch your resources. I'm sorry. :(

 

Since she's staying for weeks, I'd treat her like a sibling, and from the get-go I treat sibling conflicts pretty similarly to the way I'll treat them as the kids grow. "If you can't play nicely, you can't play together." Also, attention to the "victim" and none to the perpetrator. I'm not lick-phobic...she's going to be sharing all her germs one way or another over the next few weeks...but if I were? "Junior, I am really sorry! That is super gross and not appropriate! We do NOT lick people, Junior, tongues are for food. Yes, I will wipe you up. Cousin should NOT have licked you, that is NOT OKAY."

 

But then, I only do time-out for cases where I feel there is risk of serious harm, I do it abruptly and upsettingly, and I do it to keep the child safe from my mama bear rage. Otherwise, chill is where it's at.

[mathmarm]

Oh and I tried intentionally not to make a big deal out of it when I first saw her doing it, but by the 3rd time I could feel my own eye twitching so I think that she knows what she's doing is getting on my nerve. She is humming and happy now, but I don't know what to do...Jr. sleeps in the bed with me and Hubby, while niece will be sleeping in the next room with the door open, we've put the baby monitor in her room so that we can hear if there is an issue.

 

EDIT: Just clarifying for anyone who was confused by my original wording and thought that either one of us was stupid enough to think that letting my mid-40's Husband spend the night in my 3yo nieces bedroom was not a terrible idea! Hubby, Jr. and I sleep in one bed in the master bedroom. Niece sleeps in the baby-room by herself.

[Flowing Brook]

I think that this is pretty accurate, but...she is licking my baby! and it is driving me d4mn near insane. I am not a screamer by nature but...she is licking Jr.!!!

 

I really don't want to reward her negative behavior but...I mean...she's licking him, I don't even know what to say about that!!!

Does at least wiping him up after she licks him count as rewarding her negative behavior? Or should I just suck it up as building his immunity while she tires of this game?

 

Honestly unless there is a big wad of spit on him. I would not bother wiping it up.  I mean it's saliva from a three yo. How bad can that be?  I think if her parents left her there for a few weeks she may be feeling abandoned.  She probably feels Jr. is competition and is acting out because of that. I'd ignore the licking and redirect her attention.  Show her some extra attention in another area and your problem will be solved.  I would not make her feel in any way she is being punished because of the baby. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

A 1.  I would be peeved, but I wouldn't be afraid for my baby's health.  And I would be happy that she wasn't biting him.  I agree with redirection.  

[T'smom]

Honestly, it would bug me. A lot. I'd wear the baby and not let her have access to him.

[HRAAB]

Three yr old niece would no longer have access to my baby.  I'd be wearing baby, and she would not be touching him, with her tongue or hands.  Very calmly and quietly.

[swellmomma]

It's icky but won't harm Jr.  Why is this 3 yr old going to be staying for an extended period in your home? The licking and refusal to listen sounds like a 3 yr old trying to exert control over her life in the only way she can think to.  You get upset with her and rush to "protect" the baby from her licking, it is a response she is enjoying.  She sounds like a little girl screaming for attention. And to a 3 yr old even negative attention is good enough. As well even though a 3 year old seems so big next to Jr, 3 is still little.  Really little, and it is normal for a 3 year old to still be at the sensory stage of licking/tasting things, even babies.  Now you know your current response is not working, so try something new, either ignore it, tell her "we lick lollipops not babies" and reward with a sugar free lolly if she makes it to lunch time without licking him as an after lunch treat, and another after supper, you could simply say "yuck, we don't like babies" and leave it at that, no anger, no punishment, nothing more than repeating "we don't lick the baby".  You can provide other areas that she can control, special "big girl" time to give lots of non-baby attention, which I suspect is what started this, a need for nonbaby time (some kids hurt the baby, this one licks him), and give options for redirecting licking when it happens.  Just be matter of fact not grossed out/angry/frustrated.  Just "we don't lick the baby" over, and over and over.  She is still closer to baby than big girl herself imo.

[redsquirrel]

Well, I wouldn't be worried about illness. But, I am not above telling her that sometimes the baby has poop and puke on him and you might miss a little. So, if she licks the baby she might get poop in her mouth and that is pretty gross.

 

 

Yeah, I would do that. If I tell a three year old to stop doing something I expect it to stop. You say this is a niece, have you told her mom and dad.

 

I wore my babies almost constantly so the idea of a kid being able to poke or lick is just weird to me.  Can't you just put the baby in a sling? There isn't much 'playing' a three year old can do with a baby anyway. I never left an infant within reach of older kids unless I was right there to supervise hands on.

[Dandelion]

Some kids crave attention any way they can get it.  To them, all attention is good attention - and more attention is better. Regardless of the means, and regardless of the *kind* of attention it is. 

 

My DS is like this.  He will go for the biggest payoff (in terms of parental attention/energy) every time.  Because he was my first child, and didn't come with a manual ( ;) ), it took me years to figure this dynamic out.  Until I wised up, I always gave him much bigger payoffs for undesired behavior than desired behavior.  

 

What I mean by that is:  he got more attention (more of my time and focus), more volume (in my voice), more energy (I was more excited and more animated), etc. when he did something wrong than when he did something right.  When he was doing what I wanted him to, he got less attention, less energy, less volume, etc.  

 

Because of my failure to recognize this, I got more undesired behavior than desired behavior for a very long time.  Now I make a point of giving him way more of my energy for positive behavior, and very little to no energy for negative behavior.  It works.

 

Not all kids are like this.  My DD is very sensitive and eager to please, and for her, only positive attention is good attention.  She would never continue doing something just because it got a bigger (albeit negative) reaction.

 

I suspect your niece is of the "all attention is good attention" persuasion.  Make a point to notice her and praise her when she's engaging in positive behavior, give her lots of positive attention, and do your best to limit the payoff (in terms of attention/energy) for undesired behavior.  :)

[idnib]

Score of 0 for actual licking. Don't care at all.

 

Score of 3 for annoyance that she wouldn't listen to me.

[Truscifi]

She just came to stay with you? Without her parents/regular caregivers? Was she around a baby before?

 

I would guess this is a lot of upheaval for her, and this is her way of either taking control or trying to get some attention for herself instead of sharing it with the baby.  But, yeah, that would annoy me.

[Freckles]

Depending on the relationship I had with my nieces mother, if the three year old continued to lick the baby after I explained and asked her not to, she would be introduced to a bar of soap in her mouth. I know I won't win points on this board, but that is unacceptable behavior.

[maize]

Watch the Babies documentary, the African mama (Himba?) cleans her child's face by licking it. Like a mama cat.

 

I would ignore the behavior, and make sure to give plenty of positive attention at other times. Your niece is likely acting out because she is away from home and family--that is awfully disruptive to a three year old. I would pretty much count on disruptive behavior as long as she is with you.

[JFSinIL]

I'd calmly note that she needed a clean tongue to lick the baby and stick a bar of mild soap in her mouth (like Ralphie got in Christmas Story)..  I mean, gross - you need a firm way to STOP this behavior NOW.    Get the soap.

[SKL]

The licking itself would NOT bother me, unless Jr. has an immunity issue.  I also agree this is about attention.

 

HOWEVER, I would not ignore it because the next step might be biting.  I hate to say it, but I used to babysit a preschooler who sounds like this 3yo, and she used to hurt her baby brother out of frustration.  (He was too little and quiet to be annoying her.)  She would go right up to his ear and scream into it.  Ignoring isn't always the answer.

 

Niece needs something to do - away from Jr.

[redsquirrel]

Depending on the relationship I had with my nieces mother, if the three year old continued to lick the baby after I explained and asked her not to, she would be introduced to a bar of soap in her mouth. I know I won't win points on this board, but that is unacceptable behavior.

 

It is also reportable to the state hotline for child abuse and neglect and would find you the subject of an indicated report.

 

Forcing soap, hot sauce, etc in the mouth can cause specific injuries that doctors and nurses are trained to look for and report.  It can result in a very specific jaw injury and biting injury to the tongue. Even if it doesn't cause injury it is something that would be investigated if reported to a mandated reporter. Soap is dangerous to ingest and can cause chemical burns, vomiting, choking etc.

 

What you chose to do in your home is your own business, but you might not want to encourage others to engage in behaviour that might get them into a whole lot of trouble. Or, if you do, you should be upfront about the possible repercussions.

 

There really are better and more effective ways to discipline a child that will not put you at risk of CPS knocking at your front door. At the very least, you might want to reconsider suggesting it to others.

 

 

[Freckles]

It is also reportable to the state hotline for child abuse and neglect and would find you the subject of an indicated report.

 

Forcing soap, hot sauce, etc in the mouth can cause specific injuries that doctors and nurses are trained to look for and report.  It can result in a very specific jaw injury and biting injury to the tongue. Even if it doesn't cause injury it is something that would be investigated if reported to a mandated reporter. Soap is dangerous to ingest and can cause chemical burns, vomiting, choking etc.

 

What you chose to do in your home is your own business, but you might not want to encourage others to engage in behaviour that might get them into a whole lot of trouble. Or, if you do, you should be upfront about the possible repercussions.

 

There really are better and more effective ways to discipline a child that will not put you at risk of CPS knocking at your front door. At the very least, you might want to reconsider suggesting it to others.

 

Oh please! I never said shove it down her throat. I'm an RN I know the consequences, and I've seen what real abuse and neglect look like. On a side note, I've been told by MD's to use drops of hot sauce for biters.

[8circles]

I think ignoring might be your best bet. However, I doubt I could do it. I would probably carry the baby constantly and try to keep the licker busy with something else.

[MomtoCandJ]

Put something that taste nasty on baby's face, food she doesn't Ike perhaps. Or you could ask if she is a cat or a dog, if she says yes, then treat her as one (with in reason), if she says no then tell her humans don't lick other humans :)

[redsquirrel]

Oh please! I never said shove it down her throat. I'm an RN I know the consequences, and I've seen what real abuse and neglect look like. On a side note, I've been told by MD's to use drops of hot sauce for biters.

 

Like I said, it is up to you. But, I wouldn't want to tell people to do something that might get them in trouble with CPS, especially given that you have now told us you are RN. That raises the stakes by quite a bit for you.

 

Plus, as I mentioned, it isn't just the potential for physical danger, it is the act that puts you at risk of being investigated. If a child discloses to a mandated reporter, injury or not, it is reportable.

 

And anyone who suggests hot sauce for biters is an idiot. If you are an RN, then you know plenty of MDs are idiots. I've never known an RN worth her (or his) salt that actually took the word of a doc at face value.

[mommymilkies]

Depending on the relationship I had with my nieces mother, if the three year old continued to lick the baby after I explained and asked her not to, she would be introduced to a bar of soap in her mouth. I know I won't win points on this board, but that is unacceptable behavior.

Wow.  I am soooooooo glad we are not related. Quite frankly, I would press charges against you if you did that.  That's abuse.

[mathmarm]

Well thanks everyone, I'm going to try and relax. Tomorrow is going to be a long day (no preschool ) and I don't want to get into the practice of feeding into her frenzy for every minor incident--no matter how much it bugs me. Niece is my sisters daughter and I highly doubt that my sister would have a problem with any form of discipline that I would apply (She knows I'd never beat or abuse a kid, so virtually everything else is fair game).

 

Now that Hubby has stopped laughing about the whole thing (he thinks Jr being coated in spit is funny. I don't. *sigh* I hope Jr. has his dads sense of humor) We have decided to use a combination of approaches.

 

We already have a few activities planned for tomorrow so we will continue with them as scheduled and I'll lead off the licking-incidents by ignoring it for the most part and just mentioning that it shouldn't be done but if she persists (my money is on 'she will') then I am going to switch to the poop tactic and use it to segue to soap or (something bitter and unpleasant that will pass for soap) then right back to ignoring the whole incident. Wash, rinse and repeat.

 

Hopefully she will grow bored with this game by Wednesday. (If she doesn't then at least she will be in PreK for a few hours)

[SKL]

Soap (like yelling, nagging, etc) just focuses more attention on the "bad" behavior.  Next the kid will say "I'm just going to kiss him" but the underlying issue will still be there.  The little girl senses that Jr. is where everyone's attention is, and that's what she's reacting to.

 

Why is she staying away from her parents?  Does it have anything to do with a younger sibling in her family?

[SKL]

Well, you just reminded me of what I did instead of soap (years ago).  I threatened Miss A with beans and Miss E with lemon juice.  (We keep both around because Miss E loves beans and Miss A loves lemon juice, LOL.)  And then I carried through as needed.  It worked like a charm.  You would think those kids had been brutally beaten, or maybe subjected to electric shock.  LOL.  I only had to do it once to each kid.

 

When I was a kid, good old-fashioned soap was used for cussing.  I don't think it's abuse, but I agree that it is not treated lightly nowadays, so I would come up with something more benign.  Like beans....

[Freckles]

I'll just leave it at everyone has different ideas about child raising, and I having a child lick a bar of soap is not abuse. I've seen abuse!!!  And I'm going to ignore the backhanded comment about doctors and nurses. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just want to head it off at the pass.  You have two children here.  A baby, who is very portable and easy to put out of reach of a 3 year old, and a 3 year old who might be fast but is still fairly predictable.  So, if you know what she's going to do, distract her, redirect her, and put the baby out of her reach.  Doing all the aversion therapy seems way too much trouble to me.  

[Trish]

_{Well what would you do if she were pinching the baby?}

 

_{Do whatever you would've done if that were the case.}

 

_{There's no reason you have to allow something to continue just because the baby isn't squalling about it.}

[Seasider]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just want to head it off at the pass. You have two children here. A baby, who is very portable and easy to put out of reach of a 3 year old, and a 3 year old who might be fast but is still fairly predictable. So, if you know what she's going to do, distract her, redirect her, and put the baby out of her reach. Doing all the aversion therapy seems way too much trouble to me.

I agree with Jean. What's next? Biting? Poking him in the eye? When my kids were that age and fraught with temptation to do something they couldn't seem to resist, I trained but at times I removed the temptation. Since you are not the parent, I sense you're going to get a LOT of testing from this child. I'd keep him out of her reach.

[hellen]

I am the mother of a 3 year old licker. She thinks it is fun to pretend to be a dog but she was licking even before her dog fixation. It comes and goes. She'll do it for a day or two and then not again for weeks.

 

I agree with the others who say to wear the baby as much as possible. I hope tomorrow is a better day.

[Tsuga]

2 in terms of grossness, but her not respecting his boundaries is a 10 on my scale of "no way, Jose."

 

Oh please! I never said shove it down her throat. I'm an RN I know the consequences, and I've seen what real abuse and neglect look like. On a side note, I've been told by MD's to use drops of hot sauce for biters.

 

Holy smokes. That wouldn't fly in my region. I don't mean abuse--it happens everywhere, sadly--but an MD telling you to use hot sauce as a punishment. Egads.

 

We believe in logical/natural/social consequences in our house. Licking a baby =/= licking a bar of soap. I mean, why?

 

However!

 

You do not touch people unless it's okay with them, period. If you cannot respect people, you cannot be around people. Time out. The end. I think I have said this about 5,698 times since becoming a mom, and my kids are definitely not that many days old. :)

 

I had to literally hold my own child in time-out at that age; eventually we settled on a very strong babygate and me walking away, to diminish the returns she got from my reaction, however I muted it.

 

With a child I was babysitting, say a nephew, I would ensure I had a strong babygate, and put the child behind the gate.

 

• Quickly, calmly, firmly: "[baby] doesn't like licking. Stop licking."
• If behavior repeats, quickly, calmly, firmly: "[baby] doesn't like licking. If you can't respect baby, you can't be around baby." Pick up child, put in time-out room with a babygate. If child is potty training, ensure that there is a potty in there. A bottle of water in case child complains of thirst, so you can totally be detached emotionally from her cries, assuming no cries of true pain arise (I assume you have a totally/almost totally child-proof room in your home). "Three minutes."
• Rinse, repeat. A strong willed child can do this routine a good four or five hours a day for several weeks if she wants. Having a plan that keeps your cool, gives you a short break, and that you know will eventually work, is very helpful.

 

Share your plan with the parents ahead of time. A three-minute time-out behind a baby gate in an open room is an appropriate, logical, gentle consequence for a child who is testing boundaries. It also gives you a moment to go collect yourself. The mommy instincts are strong when you have a baby around so it will be good to get calmed down before you have to deal with her behavior again.

 

(Babywearing is a great idea too, but I do think that having a calm routine that she can count on when she tests boundaries is also very healthy.)

[Whereneverever]

Thinking better of replying. Yikes. :(

[Forget-Me-Not]

She is three, you are WAY overthinking this, and you are practically asking her to continue by reacting.

 

Just limit her access to the baby and keep her busy.

 

Coloring books and crayons, Play-doh, sidewalk chalk, bubbles.

Bundle baby into a stroller and take a walk and collect rocks and leaves.

Bake cookies while the baby naps or hangs out in the swing.

Hand her a damp cloth and let her scrub the baseboards or the dining room chairs (seriously. My five year old still loves to do this). Set her loose in the bathroom with a spray bottle of water and a towel.

 

Licking is gross, yes. But in the grand scheme of things it won't hurt the baby (may actually boost his immunity, haha). Don't waste your energy on negative consequences and aversion therapy and punishments. Just divert, divert, divert.

[kiwik]

I put a cot in the lounge and put the baby in it when I wasn't holding him. My oldest didn't lick but he did hug and trip over the baby a lot. One he had learnt to sit up it was safer but until then my toddler could play with the baby when I was there or talk to him through the bars of the cot - it was warmer off the floor too. Keep the baby out of reach and keep the 3 year old busy. I assume the baby sleeps in your room so you don't have to worry at night? And when you shower shut the baby in your room and take the 3 year old with you.

[Melissa in Australia]

Well I wouldn't  even let people kiss my baby at that age.

 

I would be using some sort of disciplinary action towards the 3 year old,  telling the mother to do something about her child and removing the baby totally from the reach of the 3 year old.

[Danestress]

I am not capable of ignoring a four year kid behaving this way in my home. I would not let her near the baby at all. Not for one second. Wear the baby as much as you can stand. If the baby is not being worn, little girl is sitting in her bed unless you can give her your full attention. It's not so much that licking is the end of the world, but I think she could escalate. Truly, she has announced that she can do what she wants to your baby and will, whether you like it or not.

 

This sounds like a kid who needs tomato staking anyway. I would give her a lot of love, attention, approval, stimulation etc. I would try to keep her engaged in activities she loves. And I am not one to yell or to really punish much. I think both are counter productive. But I would not ignore a four year old who believes she can do whatever she wants in my house with my baby.

 

So the licking itself is maybe a 2 or 3. But the attitude that she will choose how to behave with a baby and you can't stop her is a five in my book. It dangerous and unstable.

[Danestress]

She is three Danestress.

 

Anyhow, it sounds like she wants attention. Maybe she is jealous of the baby?

Sorry. Same answer from me though.

[unsinkable]

How big of a problem would some kid licking your baby be?

 

 

As in a 3yo niece who is staying in your home for an extended period of time, licking your 1mo baby as a game, possibly to get under your skin? I have told her 4x already not to lick Jr., to stop licking Jr., not to lick him again and if she does it again she's going in the time-out corner. After the time out comment she looked me in the eye and told me "I'm going to lick him the next time we play." W.T.F...honestly? Really?!

 

I need to figure out a way to deal with this, because honestly, I don't like it at all.

I think its gross and don't want it happening, but I don't want to stack molehills into mountains, either.

Plus, this is a kid that likes to push limits...What are some tactics that I can try?

Honestly, I'm not sure that standing in the corner will work with this little girl, she is 'resilient' to put it nicely.

She's not "some kid."

 

She is your niece, that you are caring for. I'm not sure of her situation but it sounds like her world might have been disrupted.

 

Hold your baby, don't punish, redirect. Keep her busy. Praise when she behaves the way you want her to.