swellmomma Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 ugh now I am second guessing the unit I picked lol. I picked Y3U1, but now thinking Y2U4 would have been better timing wise. Oh well, it just means it will be a little longer before I actually start the unit I picked, it gives me more time to plan ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I ordered mine on 10/11/13, which I know was a Sunday, but I have yet to hear a peep from them. Should I email them or something? Today would be the second actual business day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I ordered mine on 10/11/13, which I know was a Sunday, but I have yet to hear a peep from them. Should I email them or something? Today would be the second actual business day. They said 24-48 business hours and two days is just 16. (right? I'm only guessing there are 8 business hours in a day lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 They said 24-48 business hours and two days is just 16. (right? I'm only guessing there are 8 business hours in a day lol) Oh, man! I didn't even think about that! That means they are actually quoting 3-4 business days not 1-2 business days! Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm pretty sure they mean 1-2 business days when they say 24-48 business hours. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi mum Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I ordered mine on 10/11/13, which I know was a Sunday, but I have yet to hear a peep from them. Should I email them or something? Today would be the second actual business day. I ordered the day before you and just got mine today, so yours should be coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hm. I had used it for Ana in the past time and it was a bad fit for her personality. ( I liked it.) I wonder if it would fit well for Christian........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirtymomma Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'm waiting to hear on Y2 U2 order. Don't need it now, but it could be very useful once my youngest is ready to study history with us. Looking forward to having a whole unit to play with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm pretty sure they mean 1-2 business days when they say 24-48 business hours. ;) I'm at 3 business days and no email. :-/ Don't undermine my patience. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm at 3 business days and no email. :-/ Don't undermine my patience. :p This is why I think it has to really mean it when it says 24-48 business HOURS. Today would have been the second business day and I got nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewaka Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I ordered on Saturday and got mine today. How do I access the first two teacher training videos? I don't see a link for that anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I don't know why I'm so excited about this when I have little expectation that TOG will work out for us but .. maybe? One big reason I put off TOG as an option is because I wanted to spend a lot more time on Ancients. This year, for example, we're focused on what is only coved in Year 1 Unit 1 of TOG. It gives a week or few to Ancient Egypt while we are taking the whole year to nestle down there. I was also expecting to spend a year or two in Ancient Greece and Rome. And yet ... do you think I could use it according to my own schedule? I'm thinking I might like it as a plan for high school but am inclined to stretch it out until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I ordered on Saturday and got mine today. How do I access the first two teacher training videos? I don't see a link for that anywhere. The e-mail that gives you download instructions also contains coupon codes for the training videos. You put one video in your cart, then go to checkout, enter your coupon code for that video, and confirm your purchase (you do not need to input any financial data - just ignore the payment section completely). Repeat with the second video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morningcoffee Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I got an email welcoming me to Lampstand Press but it didn't contain any information about how to download my unit. I logged onto the site but couldn't work out how to access it there either! What should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I got an email welcoming me to Lampstand Press but it didn't contain any information about how to download my unit. I logged onto the site but couldn't work out how to access it there either! What should I do? How long has it been since you ordered the unit? My e-mail was titled: "Order information from Lampstand Press, Ltd" It was long and had a convoluted process to get the stuff. :lol: If they created your account, you can just go to "Download Center" (top of the TOG page) and follow the steps there. You'll need that e-mail to get your videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Well it's been about 4 days for me and nothing.I didn't even get a welcome email so I guess I need to try again. How did you overseas people get around entering the US state. It wouldn't take my order unless I entered one so I just put in a random State with my correct Australian address. It did take it but I'm that they thought I was a non serious person just messing around because of it ...so didn't send me anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ok so I redid it and this time I got the welcome email...so hope to get my unit this time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Maybe I should redo mine too. I did mine on Friday and still nothing. Like sewingmama I put in a random state with my Canadian address. Sewingmama what did you do differently this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Thank you for posting this. I just order Year 1, Unit 3 and am so excited to see it for myself. I've perused the website several times, but it was always overwhelming. I hope this helps me to better understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 :D My email just arrived this morning (my time) though it's time stamp said it sent last night (so, 11am U.S. EST). So, I thought four days had passed without an email but for some reason it just took a while to come through. Regarding the US state, I still have a US address so I can't help with that. Sorry. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi mum Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Well it's been about 4 days for me and nothing.I didn't even get a welcome email so I guess I need to try again. How did you overseas people get around entering the US state. It wouldn't take my order unless I entered one so I just put in a random State with my correct Australian address. It did take it but I'm that they thought I was a non serious person just messing around because of it ...so didn't send me anything? Maybe I should redo mine too. I did mine on Friday and still nothing. Like sewingmama I put in a random state with my Canadian address. Sewingmama what did you do differently this time? I had the problem with the international address too, but mine was even worse since we don't get postal delivery here so I didn't want to put in a residential address. After four days I got an email asking why I didn't give full contact details and when I replied to that I got my download. I alerted them to the issue with having to enter a US state so they are aware of that. My guess is that they have been totally swamped with orders and have got a bit behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I see why I didn't get it when it was sent! It had been marked junk and I didn't see it until I got to the computer because junk doesn't show up on my iPad (I even checked my spam folder from my iPad and it wasn't there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 .. Except that I can't log in. :-/ Re-engaging patience. eta: I finally made it in after resetting the password. For some reason the one they gave me would only give me an "invalid password" message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paceofnature Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 My email arrived this morning ~ it took about a week. I'm so excited to start playing with it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Hen Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Before I go and request a unit, can anyone tell me if TOG is as easy or easier to secularize as SL has been? I need to explore new curricula like I need a hole in the head, especially as what we have is working so well, but I suppose this is my hobby. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Before I go and request a unit, can anyone tell me if TOG is as easy or easier to secularize as SL has been? I need to explore new curricula like I need a hole in the head, especially as what we have is working so well, but I suppose this is my hobby. LOL I got a free unit just for the heck of it (even though we are completely secular- I'm a curriculum junkie) and I think it would be possible, but extremely annoying. Every other page of the unit we got talks about how students should learn something about Buddhism and Hinduism so they can understand why they're wrong. Or about how these religions oppose Christianity. Or about how they're fighting Christianity for followers. And so on. The curriculum isn't just pro-Christianity, but it's anti-everything else. I'd worry that even if I secularized it, their views would still come through somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Hen Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Thanks, Mergath - I was afraid that might be the case. My internet is slower than dial up usually, so it sounds like I shouldn't trouble with a sample. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 woo hoo it arrived today :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paceofnature Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I got a free unit just for the heck of it (even though we are completely secular- I'm a curriculum junkie) and I think it would be possible, but extremely annoying. Every other page of the unit we got talks about how students should learn something about Buddhism and Hinduism so they can understand why they're wrong. Or about how these religions oppose Christianity. Or about how they're fighting Christianity for followers. And so on. The curriculum isn't just pro-Christianity, but it's anti-everything else. I'd worry that even if I secularized it, their views would still come through somehow. What year was your unit? I got Year 2 Unit 4 and am finding it pretty easy to secularize. We are using the LG/UG and I'm just skipping the Church History and haven't had a problem yet. I have heard that Year 1 has a lot of religion, so I don't think I would even attempt to secularize that, but so far I'm pretty happy with Year 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Maybe I should redo mine too. I did mine on Friday and still nothing. Like sewingmama I put in a random state with my Canadian address. Sewingmama what did you do differently this time? Nothing that I know of...just filled it in again and resent it...again using a random state. I just recieved the download information....less then 24 hours after I resent the form. So maybe just try again and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Mine finally came mid-day today! Doing the math that's 4 business days at 8 hours per day, so 32 business HOURS! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 What year was your unit? I got Year 2 Unit 4 and am finding it pretty easy to secularize. We are using the LG/UG and I'm just skipping the Church History and haven't had a problem yet. I have heard that Year 1 has a lot of religion, so I don't think I would even attempt to secularize that, but so far I'm pretty happy with Year 2. It was Year 1, Unit 2. I picked that one because I thought maybe we could incorporate a few things next year when we start ancient history, but I don't think I'd have the patience to secularize it. Their worldview is so completely antithetical to my own that it wouldn't be worth the frustration. It looks like a good program for those who share their beliefs, though. Very thorough, from what I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Wow. As fabulous as it looks it is way more history then I want for my kids. Glad I got to see it though..I've always been super curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I'm downloading it now. From the screen shots it looks so pretty. But that isn't a reason to use a curriculum. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 So I got my email with the link to my account and information but when I attempt to log in it says my account does not exist. I tried the button for can't remember my password, it says my email does not exist in their system. Then I thought perhaps I made an account previously with my alternate email, and tried that in the forgot my password link, no dice, says it doesn't exist. So now I have an email with all these details and codes for the training etc and can't access them still. I called today and after staying on hold for a long time left a message and sent an email so now still waiting to see what's what with that. ETA: finally figured it out. I had apparently made an account in feb 2010 with an email I only had for a couple months before we moved here. I never thought to try it but after posting here it popped into my mind and thankfully I have used the same cluster of passwords for 15 years so it worked. Now to update my email address with them so I can access it properly in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I got my e-mails and have been trying to get the videos downloaded, but it's not working because I'm getting charged tax? It says that cart contents do not match total. I don't get it, but I hope they can resolve it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 After hours of waiting I finally got it downloaded only to be told the disk image wasn't recognized. (The teacher training videos work fine.) Did anyone else experience this problem? eta: re-downloaded the file. No problems this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerka528 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I still haven't received my email. I sent my request last Sunday, so tomorrow it will be a week. I'm bummed it is taking so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I still haven't received my email. I sent my request last Sunday, so tomorrow it will be a week. I'm bummed it is taking so long. I wish they would at least send an e-mail that they got our requests. I'm wondering if I should resubmit or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I still haven't received my email. I sent my request last Sunday, so tomorrow it will be a week. I'm bummed it is taking so long. I wish they would at least send an e-mail that they got our requests. I'm wondering if I should resubmit or something. You did check your junk/spam folder, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 You did check your junk/spam folder, right? Yes. But it's only been a couple of days for me. I just wish I knew that my request was received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 I got a free unit just for the heck of it (even though we are completely secular- I'm a curriculum junkie) and I think it would be possible, but extremely annoying. Every other page of the unit we got talks about how students should learn something about Buddhism and Hinduism so they can understand why they're wrong. Or about how these religions oppose Christianity. Or about how they're fighting Christianity for followers. And so on. The curriculum isn't just pro-Christianity, but it's anti-everything else. I'd worry that even if I secularized it, their views would still come through somehow. This strikes me as hyperbole in the extreme. I've used every unit of Tapestry and this isn't even close to correct. However, Mergath does pinpoint where Tapestry will appear to be Christian: when they are dealing with other religions. Is that really a surprise to anyone? Added a bit later: The books used by Tapestry are majority secular including most of those on other religions, for instance, they use the Usborne book of world religions. Most references to Christianity will occur in the instructional materials for the parent making this a super easy program to switch out. Further, some questions which may strike the secular user as Christian are actual those of ethics, and might easily be switched to generic ethical questions presuming a similar ethical set. However, most such questions do not occur in the materials directed at grammar aged children but at Dialectic and Rhetoric students who should be in the process of being challenged to process all such issues anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 This strikes me as hyperbole in the extreme. I've used every unit of Tapestry and this isn't even close to correct. However, Mergath does pinpoint where Tapestry will appear to be Christian: when they are dealing with other religions. Is that really a surprise to anyone? Added a bit later: The books used by Tapestry are majority secular including most of those on other religions, for instance, they use the Usborne book of world religions. Most references to Christianity will occur in the instructional materials for the parent making this a super easy program to switch out. Further, some questions which may strike the secular user as Christian are actual those of ethics, and might easily be switched to generic ethical questions presuming a similar ethical set. However, most such questions do not occur in the materials directed at grammar aged children but at Dialectic and Rhetoric students who should be in the process of being challenged to process all such issues anyway. Defensive, much? I gave my opinion of one unit of one year. As someone else said, the year I chose apparently has a great deal of religious content. I never said it shouldn't be that way, because obviously it's a religious curriculum. People are perfectly welcome to get their own free unit and make up their own minds. I stand by my opinion, though. From the one unit I browsed, ToG seems to take a more antagonistic view of other religions than the other Christian curricula I've seen. If you're a Christian, that kind of language probably doesn't stand out to you the way it does to those of us who are non-Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Defensive, much? I gave my opinion of one unit of one year. As someone else said, the year I chose apparently has a great deal of religious content. I never said it shouldn't be that way, because obviously it's a religious curriculum. People are perfectly welcome to get their own free unit and make up their own minds. I stand by my opinion, though. From the one unit I browsed, ToG seems to take a more antagonistic view of other religions than the other Christian curricula I've seen. If you're a Christian, that kind of language probably doesn't stand out to you the way it does to those of us who are non-Christian. No, but I am a Christian and I have a high commitment to the truth and in particular to making sure I don't misrepresent others and their work. Let's take on a comparative week for reference to see if you are right. Since I want to make sure I pick a culture that TOG will come in conflict with, I won't use one of the chapters on the ancient Greeks, but instead I'll use a culture that still exists that they'll want to discuss in detail. This will mean I will have the most Christian field content possible. My second caveat is that I own a print edition, first printing. I've chosen to do the week on India, which means there is one big difference, I'm pretty sure Tapestry no longer reads the Bhagavad Gita as the literature for the R level student so there will be a difference there. I've attached a PDF with my breakdown of pages. In total that is 50 pages with 5 pages and 8 additional lines of text that have Christian content. That's about 10% of the total. And 10% is no where near every other page which would be half. Further almost all that content is limited to discussions with older students. They use the World Book Encyclopedia to inform the teacher. I am curious if you have previous posts that endorse other Christian curriculum as being adaptable? Can you link one or two? I've used Sonlight which the person who asked mentioned. They are less thorough in a week than Tapestry is, but I suspect in terms of % of Christian content in a similar week they might actually be higher than Tapestry, of course that will be because they include many fewer pages than Tapestry does. Tapestry India Week.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 No, but I am a Christian and I have a high commitment to the truth and in particular to making sure I don't misrepresent others and their work. Let's take on a comparative week for reference to see if you are right. Since I want to make sure I pick a culture that TOG will come in conflict with, I won't use one of the chapters on the ancient Greeks, but instead I'll use a culture that still exists that they'll want to discuss in detail. This will mean I will have the most Christian field content possible. My second caveat is that I own a print edition, first printing. I've chosen to do the week on India, which means there is one big difference, I'm pretty sure Tapestry no longer reads the Bhagavad Gita as the literature for the R level student so there will be a difference there. I've attached a PDF with my breakdown of pages. In total that is 50 pages with 5 pages and 8 additional lines of text that have Christian content. That's about 10% of the total. And 10% is no where near every other page which would be half. Further almost all that content is limited to discussions with older students. They use the World Book Encyclopedia to inform the teacher. I am curious if you have previous posts that endorse other Christian curriculum as being adaptable? Can you link one or two? I've used Sonlight which the person who asked mentioned. They are less thorough in a week than Tapestry is, but I suspect in terms of % of Christian content in a similar week they might actually be higher than Tapestry, of course that will be because they include many fewer pages than Tapestry does. :001_rolleyes: I take it you're involved with sales for ToG? The difference here is that your idea of what constitutes "Christian content" and a non-Christian, secular homeschooler's are likely very different. Stuff like this: "We hope to learn about these belief systems so that we can both understand their errors and and learn to effectively reach these people with the good news of Jesus Christ!" "When we learn how our HIndu or Buddhist neighbor understands the world and where his beliefs differ from Biblical teaching, we can begin to show him in words that he can understand the way that he can come into a right relationship with God through accepting the death of Jesus Christ on the cross for his sins and be saved." "What central errors do Buddhism and Hinduism share?" "As you have learned in worldview studies this week, Hinduism and Buddhism share a common central fault..." "Would you expect that human life more precious [sic] or less so in Indian society than in Western culture because of this widespread religious belief?" (referring to reincarnation) "How do you think Hinduism, as a worldview, compares to the biblical worldview? Which one do you value more, and why? Try to be specific!" (So basically telling kids, "Pick which religion is better," which isn't generally something a secular homeschooler would consider doing.) There's some kind of philosophy play that has some guy arguing with a Buddha caricature and has sources from buddhanet.net. I'm not sure what that's supposed to be about, though it seems the other character is trying to show that Buddhism doesn't make sense. Or something. I'm not really getting it. The timeline for this section starts with "Creation: 4006 BC." "In the end, though, the religion, laws, and customs of the Egyptians have not profoundly impacted Western culture except through biblical stories." "To an unusual degree even by the standards of the ancient world, Hinduism is a worldview made up of loosely-connected beliefs, with many internal contradictions and inconsistencies between its different branches." (ETA: And almost every sentence came from a different page. I didn't take them all from one paragraph or anything like that. This was scattered over the Indus Valley stuff.) I could go on, but honestly, I'm sick of reading through this stuff. And it's more subtle than that, too. Even the questions and information that don't seem to be about religion at first glance often seem to encourage kids to think about the negative aspects of other worldviews, and compare those to the positive aspects of Christianity. As I said before, that's not something Christians might notice, but secular homeschoolers do. The antagonistic view of all non-Christians cultures saturates much of the curriculum. Could it be secularized? Like I said before, I'm sure it could, but it would drive me nuts trying to do so. And no, I don't have other posts endorsing other Christian curriculum. My daughter is five, and I'm not sure why that would matter. From what I've seen of Sonlight, I think that could be adaptable, but I'm only going by the catalog on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 It is no secret on reviews and this board that year 1 is notoriously difficult to secularize. The others are not as bad, but year 1 for sure, like Mergath said. If you're not a secular homeschooler or outside of Marcia's belief system, you probably wouldn't even notice why secular folks are upset by some things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 :001_rolleyes: I take it you're involved with sales for ToG? No, I don't. I've never made any money shilling for a company. I would find that unethical. The difference here is that your idea of what constitutes "Christian content" and a non-Christian, secular homeschooler's are likely very different. Stuff like this: Quote "We hope to learn about these belief systems so that we can both understand their errors and and learn to effectively reach these people with the good news of Jesus Christ!" "When we learn how our HIndu or Buddhist neighbor understands the world and where his beliefs differ from Biblical teaching, we can begin to show him in words that he can understand the way that he can come into a right relationship with God through accepting the death of Jesus Christ on the cross for his sins and be saved." "What central errors do Buddhism and Hinduism share?" "As you have learned in worldview studies this week, Hinduism and Buddhism share a common central fault..." "Would you expect that human life more precious [sic] or less so in Indian society than in Western culture because of this widespread religious belief?" (referring to reincarnation) "How do you think Hinduism, as a worldview, compares to the biblical worldview? Which one do you value more, and why? Try to be specific!" (So basically telling kids, "Pick which religion is better," which isn't generally something a secular homeschooler would consider doing.) There's some kind of philosophy play that has some guy arguing with a Buddha caricature and has sources from buddhanet.net. I'm not sure what that's supposed to be about, though it seems the other character is trying to show that Buddhism doesn't make sense. Or something. I'm not really getting it. The timeline for this section starts with "Creation: 4006 BC." "In the end, though, the religion, laws, and customs of the Egyptians have not profoundly impacted Western culture except through biblical stories." "To an unusual degree even by the standards of the ancient world, Hinduism is a worldview made up of loosely-connected beliefs, with many internal contradictions and inconsistencies between its different branches." (ETA: And almost every sentence came from a different page. I didn't take them all from one paragraph or anything like that. This was scattered over the Indus Valley stuff.) Yup, I counted all of that in my PDF that I posted. Still only came to five pages and 8 lines out of 59 pages. I could go on, but honestly, I'm sick of reading through this stuff. And it's more subtle than that, too. Even the questions and information that don't seem to be about religion at first glance often seem to encourage kids to think about the negative aspects of other worldviews, and compare those to the positive aspects of Christianity. As I said before, that's not something Christians might notice, but secular homeschoolers do. The antagonistic view of all non-Christians cultures saturates much of the curriculum. Could it be secularized? Like I said before, I'm sure it could, but it would drive me nuts trying to do so. I noted these instances however, I do think, as the mom of a junior and 8th grader, that I want my children to be challenged to think. That's one reason I switched to a more classical view of education for middle and high school. My kids read real challenging information from the great writers of all traditions, such as the Bhagavad Gita I mentioned in a previous post. I work hard to understand those works. In the case of the Gita I reread it on our second pass through Tapestry. It's the only work I've done that for. Have you read the Gita in preparation to teach your child about Hinduism? I also find it silly to think Christians won't notice some things. Sure some Christians might not, but so might some secular people. Everyone is different when it comes to pick up details. And no, I don't have other posts endorsing other Christian curriculum. My daughter is five, and I'm not sure why that would matter. From what I've seen of Sonlight, I think that could be adaptable, but I'm only going by the catalog on that one. So why exactly were you reading this thread? It's clear from statements up thread that you don't like Tapestry and that you were predisposed to not like it. So why read this thread? Yes, I know someone asked about secularizing, but, still, why would you have ever seen that? And if you desire a secular program why pick the year plan when you are most likely to encounter religious views for your sample? Further, for a child your dd's age, there are zero Christian books and zero Christian content for her in the India week. None. The heavy duty stuff does not come into play until a child reaches the logic stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 No, I don't. I've never made any money shilling for a company. I would find that unethical. Yup, I counted all of that in my PDF that I posted. Still only came to five pages and 8 lines out of 59 pages. I noted these instances however, I do think, as the mom of a junior and 8th grader, that I want my children to be challenged to think. That's one reason I switched to a more classical view of education for middle and high school. My kids read real challenging information from the great writers of all traditions, such as the Bhagavad Gita I mentioned in a previous post. I work hard to understand those works. In the case of the Gita I reread it on our second pass through Tapestry. It's the only work I've done that for. Have you read the Gita in preparation to teach your child about Hinduism? I also find it silly to think Christians won't notice some things. Sure some Christians might not, but so might some secular people. Everyone is different when it comes to pick up details. So why exactly were you reading this thread? It's clear from statements up thread that you don't like Tapestry and that you were predisposed to not like it. So why read this thread? Yes, I know someone asked about secularizing, but, still, why would you have ever seen that? And if you desire a secular program why pick the year plan when you are most likely to encounter religious views for your sample? Further, for a child your dd's age, there are zero Christian books and zero Christian content for her in the India week. None. The heavy duty stuff does not come into play until a child reaches the logic stage. And I didn't pick each and every thing I saw that bothered me. I picked the ones that jumped out upon my quick reread, and that were short enough to type. I'm lazy like that. For many secular hsers, that would be enough. You can't remove a worldview that the entire curriculum is based upon. And I'm not saying ToG shouldn't have that worldview. I couldn't care less. Just that it probably won't work for a lot of secular hsers. And, as I said, this is referring to the specific unit I looked at. If others are better, great. Wonderful. I've read portions of the Bhagavad Gita. I've read everything from the Bible (cover to cover, in case you're curious) to the Quran to the Communist Manifesto. Also, since I studied Anthropology and Literature in college for six years, I already have a good handle on different religions, Hinduism included. I'm not entirely sure how this is relevant, but I'll go with it. I read that Liping Ma math book (can't recall the name, something about knowing math?) which led me to spend hours brushing up my algebra and geometry skills on Khan Academy to prepare myself to teach dd how to add, because I wanted to be darn sure I grasped those underlying concepts before I taught them to her. I've been taking a Greek History course online because I know that we're starting ancient history next year. So to answer your question (or at least, what I think the question was), yes, I'm qualified to teach my dd even without ToG. As I stated somewhere upthread, the reason I checked it out at all was that I was curious to see if I could secularize parts of it and use bits and pieces from it next year when we do ancient history. I wasn't predisposed to not liking ToG at all. All I knew about it was that it's a Christian curriculum, is supposed to have an insane amount of information, and that it had some kind of four year cycle thing going. And I'd heard something about a loom. That's it. Any opinion I have beyond that comes from the free unit I received. I read though much of it, and I strongly disagree with their worldview. Still have no idea what the heck the loom is. :p And I just now remembered that the character program we use, Laying Down Rails, is full of religious content. Which I have secularized. So there you are, my official endorsement of a Christian curriculum that can be used secularly. And I have a copy of Honey for a Child's Heart laying around here somewhere, too. I knew almost zip about ToG before this whole free unit thing happened. I didn't intentionally pick the year with the most religion. I picked the year I thought we could use soonest, because we start ancient history next year. Had I known, I definitely would have picked a different one. Their little popup window to help you pick the right unit was apparently woefully unhelpful. Isn't the whole selling point of this curriculum that it can be used over and over as the child grows? Even if the LG part is light on the religion, it just gets worse as the kid gets older. I was looking at the whole thing, assuming that. I don't know anyone who would buy it just to use it for the lower grades, secular or religious. I don't know why you're making such a thing out of this. A secular hser asked for opinions. As a secular hser, I gave her mine. You became very upset because, apparently, I was unaware that I'm not allowed to have an opinion. Perhaps we should just leave it at that, because pissing contests about who overprepares the most aren't getting us anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth83 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 And no, I don't have other posts endorsing other Christian curriculum. My daughter is five, and I'm not sure why that would matter. From what I've seen of Sonlight, I think that could be adaptable, but I'm only going by the catalog on that one. And I just now remembered that the character program we use, Laying Down Rails, is full of religious content. Which I have secularized. So there you are, my official endorsement of a Christian curriculum that can be used secularly. And I have a copy of Honey for a Child's Heart laying around here somewhere, too. You mention your daughter is 5 and the character training program "Laying Down the Rails." I think the difference comes in that you are comparing TOG to Kindergarten and elementary school programs you have looked at, or used. I wonder, how many high school Christian programs you have looked through? Indeed looking through Sonlight's early years, it might seem easy to secularize, but same with TOG. The bulk of the TOG teacher's guide is meant to prepare a parent for teaching the higher levels. In the early years, children are just learning the basic facts, across all curriculums. Once you get into high school, you start approaching philosophy and actually being able to defend your religion -- knowing why you believe is right. It is every Christian parent's goal that this is solidified during their child's later schooling. Not many people set their K, or early elementary student, up to defend their faith the same way. I'm sure Sonlight is the same way as TOG, if not stressing this even more in their high school program. To accurately compare curriculums, you have to compare the right things. My daughter is in K, as well, and we use TOG. I haven't even touched on any of the teacher notes, yet. They are just too much right now, and my daughter is getting enough information from the books she is reading. I mean, this is her first round of exposure to all the information, so there is no need to inundate her with information. The program was not written for kindergarteners or early elementary school. In the beginning, it wasn't even recommended for them. Marcia saw the need to wrap the whole family into the same study and the revisions bulked up the lower levels, so that families can use TOG as a solid program K-12. In knowing this, the teacher notes weren't designed to walk the early elementary parent through their child's schooling. Both Laying Down the Rails and Honey for the Child's heart are directed at younger children. I don't think you can really compare these things to TOG, which is a thorough education for the HS student. Everything is watered down and easy for young kids. Yes, you can use Laying the Rails for older students, but the thought is that character training should be accomplished earlier in life, so there isn't such a need for it when curriculum programs, philosophy, and religion all ramp up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 You mention your daughter is 5 and the character training program "Laying Down the Rails." I think the difference comes in that you are comparing TOG to Kindergarten and elementary school programs you have looked at, or used. I wonder, how many high school Christian programs you have looked through? Indeed looking through Sonlight's early years, it might seem easy to secularize, but same with TOG. The bulk of the TOG teacher's guide is meant to prepare a parent for teaching the higher levels. In the early years, children are just learning the basic facts, across all curriculums. Once you get into high school, you start approaching philosophy and actually being able to defend your religion -- knowing why you believe is right. It is every Christian parent's goal that this is solidified during their child's later schooling. Not many people set their K, or early elementary student, up to defend their faith the same way. I'm sure Sonlight is the same way as TOG, if not stressing this even more in their high school program. To accurately compare curriculums, you have to compare the right things. My daughter is in K, as well, and we use TOG. I haven't even touched on any of the teacher notes, yet. They are just too much right now, and my daughter is getting enough information from the books she is reading. I mean, this is her first round of exposure to all the information, so there is no need to inundate her with information. The program was not written for kindergarteners or early elementary school. In the beginning, it wasn't even recommended for them. Marcia saw the need to wrap the whole family into the same study and the revisions bulked up the lower levels, so that families can use TOG as a solid program K-12. In knowing this, the teacher notes weren't designed to walk the early elementary parent through their child's schooling. Both Laying Down the Rails and Honey for the Child's heart are directed at younger children. I don't think you can really compare these things to TOG, which is a thorough education for the HS student. Everything is watered down and easy for young kids. Yes, you can use Laying the Rails for older students, but the thought is that character training should be accomplished earlier in life, so there isn't such a need for it when curriculum programs, philosophy, and religion all ramp up. My only point was that I wouldn't want to secularize ToG. That's it. Someone asked for opinions, I gave one. ToG can do whatever they like. I really don't care. I just said that I, personally, wouldn't want to take the time to secularize it, and I disagree strongly enough with their worldview to feel uncomfortable using the program at all at this point. Other people can do whatever they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.