ktgrok Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Mmy witnesses have not sent in their statements. It has been months. I've offered whatever help I could. I've made myself available for questions. I went over it page by page with one of them. But no, they haven't sent them in. The only one that did is my former boss, who honestly I almost didn't list as a witness. The process can't go forward until the witness statements are turned in, everything else is done. And then, once they are in, there is a wait of about a year. That's a long time to go without communion. I'm so frustrated! Please, no catholicism bashing. Old thread! Everything worked out :) Edited July 16, 2016 by ktgrok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 You can't get some new ones? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 You can't get some new ones? I was turned down by several people before I found these. My family refused and was snotty about it. Old mutal friends that stayed his friend refused. His sister (a Catholic convert herself) ignored my request. I am not sure I can think of any other people, but I may have to keep trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The witness forms I have seen for Catholic anullments are very long interrogatories with some questions being difficult to answer and detailed. It could be very time consuming for the witness, especially a witness who isn't a fast or comfortable writer. Obviously you can't coach them or help them with the form but I would call each and make a heartfelt appeal to let you know if they can commit to doing the form and if so, by when. I would also thank them profusely. If they can't commit, then thank them and let them know you will use a different witness. Also, are you able to hire someone to transcribe verbal answers for them? I know of a few people who have essentially hired someone take their witness' forms deposition style. You aren't involved or guiding content but they can just answer the questions orally. That might speed things up. My parents waited over a year for my mom's annullment from her first marriage. I hope there is a good annullment support group at your parish. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What are the questions? I'm curious....not bashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Why on earth would your family refuse? Do they not support you annulling the marriage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What have your canon lawyers/sponsors said? Many people can't procure witnesses at all. Have you called them and explained they are delaying this process and to pretty please let you help them and then you can turn it in for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 What are the questions? I'm curious....not bashing. Things like, how responsible or mature were the people before they got married, do you know of any reasons they felt pressured to marry, do you know if they had any health or mental health problems before marriage, if they had anger issues, what you know about their religious beliefs, what you know about their beliefs about marriage itself, etc etc. (I was curious too!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What have your canon lawyers/sponsors said? Many people can't procure witnesses at all. Have you called them and explained they are delaying this process and to pretty please let you help them and then you can turn it in for them? The form specifically asks the witness to certify that they have not been coached or influenced in any answer, much less been provided answers by the person seeking the annullment. If someone is devout enough to go through a lengthy and often frustrating annullment process I can't imagine they would be comfortable violating the rules and submitting fraudulent witness statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 What are the questions? I'm curious....not bashing. Here's a sample link to what one can be like. http://www.gbdioc.org/images/stories/Main_Links/What_the_church_can_do/Family_Marriage_Relationships/Annulment/pdf/familyAnnulWitness.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Why on earth would your family refuse? Do they not support you annulling the marriage? No, they don't support it. I asked thinking it was no big deal, asked my mom and sister via email. Got an email back from my father, saying asking why I think I'm better than every other religion, etc etc. It was really upsetting. (they are not Catholic). My sister called and said she was insulted that I was trying to "bend the rules" to get back into communion, after I wouldn't lie about her church attendance so she could be my son's godmother. It was ugly and hurtful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Here's a sample link to what one can be like. http://www.gbdioc.org/images/stories/Main_Links/What_the_church_can_do/Family_Marriage_Relationships/Annulment/pdf/familyAnnulWitness.pdf Wow! That is very comprehensive. I couldn't easily answer those questions about my closest friends and family. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 What have your canon lawyers/sponsors said? Many people can't procure witnesses at all. Have you called them and explained they are delaying this process and to pretty please let you help them and then you can turn it in for them? I've been told I can help them if they have questions, so I actually went over it, question by question with one witness, and helped where i could. I didn't answer things I shouldn't answer, or give opinions, just answered matters of fact, like if we were baptised, etc. But it has to be notarized. Otherwise I'd drive to these people (all over the state) and pick them up myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 Wow! That is very comprehensive. I couldn't easily answer those questions about my closest friends and family. It's ok to answer with , "I don't know" to the ones you don't know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 The form specifically asks the witness to certify that they have not been coached or influenced in any answer, much less been provided answers by the person seeking the annullment. If someone is devout enough to go through a lengthy and often frustrating annullment process I can't imagine they would be comfortable violating the rules and submitting fraudulent witness statements.What the blazes? I did not say she should coach them or provide answers. I said she should ask them if they need help with it and provide that help. Then she can send it in or have it sent in. OP, something that might help is see if you can schedule them an appointment with your priest or advocate to discuss it. If there is concern you coached them or whatever, meet them at church with your priest or church secretary or deacon there or something. If nothing else, you might have to call your advocate and flat out explain that you can't bring witnesses. You wouldn't be the first. Is your ex fighting the annulment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Wow, I think DH would have a hard time answering all those questions about our marriage! Does the court (or whatever it's called) take into account if one of the spouses is private? I have a friend that is completely tight lipped about anything personal like her marriage. She's not Catholic, but if she were, I couldn't be much of a witness in a process like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 What the blazes? I did not say she should coach them or provide answers. I said she should ask them if they need help with it and provide that help. Then she can send it in or have it sent in. OP, something that might help is see if you can schedule them an appointment with your priest or advocate to discuss it. If there is concern you coached them or whatever, meet them at church with your priest or church secretary or deacon there or something. If nothing else, you might have to call your advocate and flat out explain that you can't bring witnesses. You wouldn't be the first. Is your ex fighting the annulment? It may come down to just not having any more. I have the one, she turned it in in a timely manner and was super sweet about it. My ex is not fighting it, but I think he chose not to reply at all, so I won't have his statement to back up what I said. This is such a huge thing, and I want it done right, but I also want it DONE, you know? Thanks for the support...I don't have anyone in real life that gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 It is not at all unusual for people to simply refuse to participate in the process or to purposely thwart it. Don't feel ashamed or embarrassed about talking frankly about it to your advocate. And just in case, be aware it might not be granted. (((Hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 No advice to offer, just hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 ok, so I messaged all three on facebook yesterday, that I'm sorry to bug them, but I heard that the church had not received the paperwork, and is there anything I can do to help? Or if they can't do it, that's fine, but just let me know. One of the three got back to me today, and apologized. She is struggling with the questions so had put it off. I sent her some basic info about the situation, to job her memory of that time, but told her to by all means NOT just go by what I say, go with what she remembers, her gut, etc. She runs her own small business, hopefully once she gets it done she will actually mail it in. She is usually very responsible. Another one is not as um..reliable...I love her to death but yeah. The third is very responsible, and very Catholic, but I'm has a VERY busy life with 4 kids and working nights as a social worker. She may just be busy. Or...i messaged her a while back with questions about international adoption, as two of her children were adopted, and I'm wondering if I offended her? I've always felt drawn to adopting, and wanted to hear if she thought that was a horrid idea, given my life circumstances, etc, or if she had advice, etc. That we weren't at the point of wanting to do it yet, but just something I wanted to explore. Maybe I was too casual about something that is really important to her. I don't know. Like I said, she might just be busy. sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 My sister asked me to do this for her. I agreed. I had no idea how involved and lengthy it was going to be. Those questions are pretty detailed. My answers, I learned, could be read by xBIL too. I delayed and finally she called to say the church hadn't received my interview responses yet and was I still going to do it. I quick sat down and just typed in my gut responses. I don't think she was given her annulment. I don't know. But truly I was like, you married him and you had a baby with him, and now you want to say in never happened? I"m not catholic so I understand this might be my problem. It's not like she's waiting to marry anyone else. But I did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 One, the annulment process can take a very long time, so I would advise people not to wait until they want to remarry because it could mean a very long engagement. Or worse, it could mean they have put themselves in the awful situation of not being able to enter into a catholic marriage at all. (Not all annulments are granted.) Two, not every marriage is entered into sacramentally and is thus a valid sacrament. It doesn't mean the civil marriage never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 My sister asked me to do this for her. I agreed. I had no idea how involved and lengthy it was going to be. Those questions are pretty detailed. My answers, I learned, could be read by xBIL too. I delayed and finally she called to say the church hadn't received my interview responses yet and was I still going to do it. I quick sat down and just typed in my gut responses. I don't think she was given her annulment. I don't know. But truly I was like, you married him and you had a baby with him, and now you want to say in never happened? I"m not catholic so I understand this might be my problem. It's not like she's waiting to marry anyone else. But I did it. Just to clarify, it doesn't say the marriage never happened. The marriage legally still happened, and the children are still legitimate. An annulment just means the marriage was never a sacrament. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Just to clarify, it doesn't say the marriage never happened. The marriage legally still happened, and the children are still legitimate. An annulment just means the marriage was never a sacrament. But what about your anniversary? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 But what about your anniversary? :lol: At this rate we can do our convalidation ON our anniversary..next year, in Oct. sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 At this rate we can do our convalidation ON our anniversary..next year, in Oct. sigh. Oh (((Katie))) I'm sorry I was kidding about that other thread, KWIM, not your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Oh (((Katie))) I'm sorry I was kidding about that other thread, KWIM, not your situation. Lol, I remember that thread...and humor is better than crying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Lol, I remember that thread...and humor is better than crying. You are really brave, dearest! I wish I could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yay, one of my witnesses, the one I said I was worried I offended, is doing it right now. We are chatting on facebook so she can ask me a few things (details like if either of us was baptized, and where, not stuff that I shouldn't influence) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I don't know anything about this process but just wanted to offer :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 YAY!!! Go, witness, go! Fill out that form! Write, write, write! And mail, mail, don't forget the stamp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariannNOVA Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Kt...........I am in the same situation, except it is my statement that has been sent back to me and it was requested that I revise it.......somewhat. Honestly, the best witness I have would be my mother, but our priest does not want her to be a witness. My sister can attest to many things, but was only 13 years old at the time, so our priest does not want her to be a witness. My dad passed years ago. His sister is the one person who was party to a conversation with my mom that is the lynchpin of my entire case.......well, she is in her 90s now, lives out of state, and would not be someone who could help my case. I have three individuals who will be my witnesses, and I was told that their statements could be taken over the phone. I know how frustrating and time consuming this process is and I feel for you. My dh has begun RCIA and I know he would love for the annulment process to be completed swiftly, but it does just drag on and on. I don't know how to do smileys on this board so: (((((hugs))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romgtr Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Mmy witnesses have not sent in their statements. It has been months. I've offered whatever help I could. I've made myself available for questions. I went over it page by page with one of them. But no, they haven't sent them in. The only one that did is my former boss, who honestly I almost didn't list as a witness. The process can't go forward until the witness statements are turned in, everything else is done. And then, once they are in, there is a wait of about a year. That's a long time to go without communion. I'm so frustrated! Please, no catholicism bashing. Hi would you happen to have a copy of the witness questionnaire? I'm in the process of an annulment and would like to see this. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Hi would you happen to have a copy of the witness questionnaire? I'm in the process of an annulment and would like to see this. Thank you. It's linked in post 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) NM - zombie thread. Edited July 16, 2016 by Violet Crown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnE-girl Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I hope everything starts moving faster. I remember one of my classmates talking little bit about his mom's annulment when we were learning about the sacrament of marriage in junior high. It sounds like the process hasn't gotten much easier since the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teachermom2834 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 My dad hung up my uncle's annumnent for years as a reluctant witness. I thought no it was a combination of being uncomfortable with being involved in the personal life of his brother and overall disapproval of the annulment. He eventually did it and it was granted but even as a kid I remember thinking he should just do it or say no. Even as a kid I felt bad that he just wasn't filling out the paperwork. Not helpful, I know, just chiming it that I think it is common for witnesses to drag their feet. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Katie, wonder if you want to give an update. Since this thread is almost 3 years old, I hope it's all resolved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I'm sorry and I hope whatever needs to happen, happens, so that you can take communion again. I thought Pope Francis was far more welcoming of divorced Catholics and such. Has that just not translated to the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Yes..old thread! All is good and the witnesses eventually turned in their forms. It was very healing to read them and see how not right we were for eachother. And for the person that asked yes Pope Francis has made it easier now. And it is now free! Edited July 16, 2016 by ktgrok 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Nm. Just realized it is an old thread. So glad it eventually worked out!! Edited July 16, 2016 by mamiof5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnE-girl Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I completely missed the original date of the thread. Oops! Glad to hear that everything worked out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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