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Here is how I am teaching the material in WWS1-3. What are you doing?


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I have used WWS1 and 1/2 of WWS2 with my older, and we are about to beta test WWS3 (while concurrently finishing WWS2!) and begin WWS1 with my younger.

 

The biggest thing I have found so far is that as much as I wish I could just hand a writing program over to my children and then just help when needed, that this approach will not work for us.  I must be fully engaged in their learning.  I think that  for many kids the art of writing needs a coach in addition to good materials. So I want to talk about how we will actually teach this curriculum and make it work for our kids.

 

So here are some of the things that I will be doing this year:

 

1. Review.  There is a lot of very specific instruction in WWS, and in the past, we have just copied down the topos in a notebook and not really used it again.  This year, I will instead do 3 things:  (1) have them write it down in their own words and not copy, (2) put it on "writing walls" -- large sheets of cardboard that can be set around them during writing time so everything is visible at once (this is instead of a notebook), (3) verbally review and have them put the details and big picture to memory. 

 

2. Find examples in the material they are reading for other subjects.  I think that WWS needs to be integrated into all of our subjects, so I am going to ask them to find examples of different topos and show me. 

 

3. Plan ahead.  Sometimes the topics that SWB has chosen are not known to my kids (oops), and I would like for them to read up on these topics over the week prior to the assignment. So I will be reading ahead and having them go to the library the week prior.

 

4. Constantly remind them about how the topos fit into the big picture.  This is where National Geographic will also come in handy.  Description, narration, persuasion, expository paragraphs all mixed together to make a cohesive whole.  We will be looking closely at these articles to keep the big picture clearly in mind as we work through the details.

 

5. With my younger, we will do WWS1 at half speed.  I think that this program is a huge jump from elementary writing, and I want him to have a full week to do each week's writing assignment (not just 1 day).  We will expand 'day 4' over five days (so 2 four-day weeks for each WWS 'week'). 

 

I would like to see how others are making WWS work for their children.

 

Ruth in NZ

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Ruth,

 

I love the way you have set forth a vision. I agree that this program requires a 'teacher'. And I especially love your visiual idea with the topos on the large boards. I may just borrow this from you when we start WWS II. My boys are older and I still found that I needed to slow down the pace. We also did (and are doing) WWS I at half pace. DS1 is done and DS 2 is in the second half. 

I wish I could add to your wonderful suggestions, but I really do appreciate you posting yours. 

 

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I'm not fully engaged with my oldest dd's use of WWS1. I admit that. I'm one that wants to be able to hand it over & just help where needed. Time will tell where that will get me with this child. 

 

However, I am engaged when I ask oldest to use what she's already learned in WWS to write something for history this year. I help with all aspects of the writing assignments that are mine. I've added one extra writing assignment for history during the four of six weeks we've had school so far (two biographies, two narrative summaries of events). 

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This is very helpful, thanks Ruth!

 

WeĂ¢â‚¬â„¢re just starting with WWS1 with a reluctant writer. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ve already decided that weĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ll likely take 2 years to do it. Making that decision early was very freeing. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m a check off the box  kind of person and just saying at the beginning that itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s ok if we dontĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ Ă¢â‚¬Å“finishĂ¢â‚¬ it in a year has allowed me to let him take the time he needs to do the assignments well even if thatĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s slowly. 

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We've been going at half pace as well. We do a week on and then a week off. On the week off, I give some writing assignments and we decide together if a chronological narrative or whatever would be best and then review what that entails. I think it has helped dd to use her skills for "real" writing assignments and not just the ones in the book.

 

We also try to discuss different types of writing in what she reads. She dragged her feet through the descriptive weeks. She kept telling me it wasn't that important. So we went through all different kinds of books to show how description was used. It's hard to find a book that does not contain description of some sort. I think that has reinforced the fact that the instruction is practical and not just something to go through the motions of doing.

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Hi Ruth,

 

This is a great thread topic, I'm glad you started it.   I think a lot of us started out with the assumption that WWS should be done mostly independently by our 5th graders, because SWB says so in both the student book and the TM, in both WWS 1 & 2.  Here is a quote from the beginning of WWS2 :  "Remember: you are responsible for reading and following the instructions! Your instructor is available to check your work, and to help if you have difficulty, but you should be able to do most of your work independently."

 

Having read that, I assumed that my dd should be able to do the work mostly independently, and so when she struggled on certain assignments, or with understanding the instructions, I assumed there was something wrong.  This was not helpful.  I'm now where you are - this is a program that needs to be explicitly taught with active involvement by the teacher, and the lessons should be applied across the curriculum - but it was pretty stressful at the beginning, thinking we should be living up to that expectation, set out explicitly by SWB herself!  Luckily people like you, and OhElizabeth, and others posted about how you were modifying WWS and giving much more explicit directions and teaching, even with older kids.  That helped a lot.

 

So, how have I used WWS?  At first pretty much as written, although I did figure out pretty quickly that I needed to provide more background information about topics my dd was unfamiliar with.  I love your idea of looking ahead and checking out library books or other resources to fill in the background information on those topics.  I understand where SWB is coming from in having a student write from pre-recorded notes on a topic - only teach one new hard thing at a time - but I disagree with its effectiveness in this case.  I think you can only write well about things you know something about.  So I think the options with WWS (if your student doesn't know about a topic) are to either help them learn more about it, or let them choose another topic.  I've done both.  A couple of examples:  my dd was fascinated by the Titanic, so we went to the library and she spent a whole week reading about it and watching documentaries before writing about that topic.  She loved that assignment and still talks about it.  

 

OTOH, she was not at all interested in Daniel Boone, and asked if she could substitute Sacagawea for that assignment (we were studying Lewis & Clark at the time).  She did, and that was great!

 

Where we really bogged down with WWS1 was the research chapters. With the exception of the lessons on plagiarism & common knowledge vs. what to cite (which I thought was excellent), I found those lessons difficult, overcomplicated, disorganized, and hard to teach.  So I taught those skills myself, basically following the Final Project guidelines and leading my dd through writing a multi-source paper on Mary Cassatt (fits in with our history studies).  I've also been having her do various assignments in history that review topos learned in WWS (biographical sketches, chronological narratives), so basically using what we learned in WWS to write across the curriculum.

 

I'm undecided about using WWS2.  At this point, we are writing across the curriculum trying to use what I've gleaned from WWS 1 & the WWS2 sample.  WWS 2 seems better organized and more clear to me, and I'm tempted to use it, but the fact is that there are only so many hours in the day, and writing as part of history is working very well for us this year.  I don't necessarily want to take the time away from our history studies to do the background reading required to make all the WWS topics meaningful to us.  

 

So my current thought is that we will continue writing across the curriculum this year, with daily short writing assignments and a longer assignment every few weeks.  It's working so far.  I am looking forward to hearing what people think of WWS 2 as more start using it, though.  It's not entirely off the radar for the future.

 

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One of the reasons I decided to start this thread is that I am seeing a bunch of discussion about how WWS is not working, and I think that people need to know that many programs for many children need to be taught to be effective, even if they are sold as an 'independent' program.  I think that SWB has so much knowledge about writing, that it is likely that her kids could do it independently just because they have soaked up her aura.  I've learned that it is the same with the science fair projects that I do.  I don't see what the problem is, just go do one; but clearly I know more than I think I do because people here tell me that they could never do one. 
 
Point being, I don't think that WWS is an independent program for many children, and I don't like people negatively critiquing it when a little bit of teaching would fix it.  This is SWB's board, and I want to have some positive threads about this massive project she has undertaken.
 
Ruth in NZ
 

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We are just starting WWS 1, but here is what we are doing:

 

1.  We are working together. DD does the outlines/summaries on her own, but we are studying the models and going over the topos together. 

 

2. We are going at half pace and stretching day 4 over an entire week.

 

3. I am using my own topics for the day 4 assignment as needed. We have subbed out the first two so far without a problem. We will use the Titanic assignment as written because she studied the Titanic last year. I think she will enjoy this one. Looking ahead, I don't see any problem with continuing to substitute my own topics on most of the weeks.

 

I am going to use your number 4, Ruth. I love the idea of using NG to get the big picture. Until WWS, I have never before thought about how these different parts fit into a larger piece of writing. I can see what SWB is trying to do, but I still have a "can't see the forest for the trees" attitude toward WWS. Off to read my current NG issue...

 

 

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Point being, I don't think that WWS is an independent program for many children, and I don't like people slamming it when a little bit of teaching would fix it. This is SWB's board, and I want to have some positive threads about this massive project she has undertaken.

 

I'll agree with you that of all the subjects for DS11, writing requires my time in teaching, supervision, and feedback. Right now, math, science, history, grammar, spelling, etc. are fairly independent subjects. I check his work and we discuss his content subjects, but using wws1 is time-intensive on my part. I'm surprised that any writing program would be independent. Since communication is the purpose of writing, how does a child know if his work was done effectively without feedback from someone?

 

Before WWS, I found DS's work competent; he was able to write good, multi-paragraph composition, but there wasn't much finesse. I had planned on using the book to guide us and have DS choose his own subjects; however, we've just used the lessons as written. The many writing excerpts give DS and me a jumping off point for our lesson. Why did the author write this way? What purpose is being served? Is it more effective another way? I also note other stylistic elements that SWB may not discuss. We're only on week 7, but I've already seen an improvement in DS's "voice".

 

The only thing I would note about the program was a big part of my son's writing in the past was revision and thus far, that hasn't been a part of the curriculum. As we move further along, I think I may break the lesson up: days 1-3 teaching for week 1 and day 4 (note taking, rough draft, revision, and final draft) spread out over week 2.

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I forgot to mention that we always compact days 1-3 into 2 days, so that in a 5-day week, ds has 3 days to do his composition.

 

Also, my ds did not like the note-taking approach. So we used more of a key word outline (from IEW) with references to source and page number of quotes he likes. He also prefers to create an outline first in which to put his notes, rather than taking a bunch of notes and then looking for clustering of ideas. WWS2 has more options for note taking because we suggested it in the beta testing - we actually started to see some of our suggestions integrated into later weeks which was cool!

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The only thing I would note about the program was a big part of my son's writing in the past was revision and thus far, that hasn't been a part of the curriculum. As we move further along, I think I may break the lesson up: days 1-3 teaching for week 1 and day 4 (note taking, rough draft, revision, and final draft) spread out over week 2.

 

I also wanted to mention revision. I've made many of the adaptations that lewelma has already mentioned -- slower pace, explicit teaching, connecting the topoi to outside reading -- but adding revision into the process has been extremely helpful for us. I don't think every piece went through revision, but most of them did. My ds has come to really enjoy this process and is quite pleased with his final drafts.

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but adding revision into the process has been extremely helpful for us. I don't think every piece went through revision, but most of them did. My ds has come to really enjoy this process and is quite pleased with his final drafts.

How did you schedule time for revisions?

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How did you schedule time for revisions?

 

I guess it goes along with slowing the pace. He did WWS1 over two years. Let's see, last year we mostly alternated weeks between WWS and grammar work. On the grammar weeks, we also added in revising the paper from the week before.

 

This year we aren't scheduling at all. He spends 60+ minutes on English a day, alternating among WWS, grammar, literary analysis, or other writing. So he might work on WWS for 4-5 days, then an additional day to do revision, then a couple of days on grammar or literary analysis. We're sort of going with the flow at the moment. He probably won't be able to get through all of WWS2 in a year this way. I may skip or condense some assignments. Not really sure yet.

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We've done WWS1, and are finishing up WWS2 and are about to start beta'ing WWS3 (as soon as WWS2 is finished, should be next week)

 

The thing I have learned to commit to, and then I have to recommit, is that I MUST sit down with my son and have him read the instructions out loud to me and we have to discuss what he is going to do.  In 6th grade, when we did WWS1 it was mostly about making sure he understood what was being asked. Now, he's a cocky 13 year old and our biggest challenge is that he is playing fast and loose with everything. He knows enough that he reads half the instructions and then sort of runs with it.

 

I am so, so grateful that the entire WWS program is as explicit as it is. When he was younger that was helpful because he really needed the direct instruction. Now he's older and, frankly, I need him to have as little wiggle room as possible. He's one of those 'too smart for his own good' type kids, so it is very good that WWS leaves very little to chance.

 

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 Now he's older and, frankly, I need him to have as little wiggle room as possible.

 

WWS has kept us honest as to what I should be expecting.  Writing is one of those things that slides pretty easily at our house.  It is very nice to say 'but you have to do this in 1 week because SWB thinks you should be able to at your age.'  My older is the type of boy who will rise to the occasion if the expectations are very clear.

 

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Well, I have been going over the WWS scope and sequence, and condensing it.  I plan to show both boys what the whole plan is and tick off as they learn things.  I think I will make little cutouts of the parts of this outline and stick them down with bluetack (removable gummy stuff).  Then my kids can write up their 'how-to' notes every week on separate card and shift the outline cuttouts around to add their notes under the appropriate category.  My younger would love his board to be colorful with big bubbles and strings, my older will want it in linear outline form.  Might be interesting to have the 2 compare how the other perceives of his writing knowledge.  I think that this will keep the big picture in mind and also make clear the goals and where they are headed.

 

Narration

    chronologically

     by significance

 

Description

     spatial

     sequence

 

Explanation

     definition

              essence

              genus division

              function

     comparison

             essence

             genus division

             function

             degree

             in time

     cause and effect/circumstance

             what proceeds, what follows

             consequences

             causes

 

looks like in general:

level 1: chronological narration and description

level 2: explanation by definition and comparison

level 3: narration by significance, cause and effect/circumstance

level 4: not really sure, but looks like an integration of all of it with more complexity

 

But there is a lot of practice and augmentation across the levels in all topics.

 

 

The other large areas of learning that don't fit into the above list are:

 

Research

     note taking

     references

 

Literary analysis

     prose

     poetry

 

these things appear in all three levels.

 

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I've just read the first 5 weeks of WWS3, and weeks 4-5 are for writing a 800 word composition with the topic chosen by the student.  (I assume I can say stuff like that, if not, sorry SWB).  So I have just given my ds notice.  For the next 3 weeks he needs to read his Scientific Americans and National Geographics and choose a topic that is interesting to him -- one that he wants to do additional research on. 

 

I am definitely going to be planning ahead so that we can focus on *writing,* rather than on complaining that there is nothing interesting to write about!

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Well, I have been going over the WWS scope and sequence, and condensing it.  I plan to show both boys what the whole plan is and tick off as they learn things.  I think I will make little cutouts of the parts of this outline and stick them down with bluetack (removable gummy stuff).  Then my kids can write up their 'how-to' notes every week on separate card and shift the outline cuttouts around to add their notes under the appropriate category.  My younger would love his board to be colorful with big bubbles and strings, my older will want it in linear outline form.  Might be interesting to have the 2 compare how the other perceives of his writing knowledge.  I think that this will keep the big picture in mind and also make clear the goals and where they are headed.

 

Narration

    chronologically

     by significance

 

Description

     spatial

     sequence

 

Explanation

     definition

              essence

              genus division

              function

     comparison

             essence

             genus division

             function

             degree

             in time

     cause and effect/circumstance

             what proceeds, what follows

             consequences

             causes

 

looks like in general:

level 1: chronological narration and description

level 2: explanation by definition and comparison

level 3: narration by significance, cause and effect/circumstance

level 4: not really sure, but looks like an integration of all of it with more complexity

 

But there is a lot of practice and augmentation across the levels in all topics.

 

 

The other large areas of learning that don't fit into the above list are:

 

Research

     note taking

     references

 

Literary analysis

     prose

     poetry

 

these things appear in all three levels.

 

Ahh, the forest!   This is very helpful.  This is the kind of big-picture view my dd needs to be presented with, explicitly, as well, so that she can hook the parts to the whole.  Thank you for taking the time to type it out.

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We're only on week 5 of WWS1 so this is a great thread to help me look ahead. Thanks! So far we are really enjoying it, and more importantly dd11 is learning. She's a great content writer, but her nuts and bolts are horrible so this is the perfect curriculum paired with AG so far. She is already applying what she is learning in science and history. She usually reads and attempts the assignment on her own. Then I review it and tell her where she is doing well and discuss with her where she needs some more work. Most assignments get at least one revision if not 2. I slot an hour for WWS 4 days a week. If she gets done great, if not, then it gets split up over more than one day. Day 5 is Killagon to help with sentence structure. We school year round so I anticipate getting done with it before 7th grade just maybe not in 180 days.

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I received little to no instruction in writing when I was in high school.  By the time I was in college, I really had no clue how to approach writing a paper - of any sort.  I was in the beta-testing group for WWS3, and I was of zero help in regard to input because writing is not my strong suit, and I need my hand to be held through the process.  Although I have had many moments when I feel insecure and rather challenged, I have appreciated WWS (all of the levels) because I know it is a curriculum that is offering my kids far more than I could give on my own.

 

I have not even attempted to use WWS as an independent study subject.  I go through each and every lesson with my son, and slow down when necessary.  We spend 30-45 minutes per day on writing. Beyond that, we carry over until the next day.  

 

My ds is often frustrated with outlining and some of the research sections of the curriculum.  He often feels that he would have an easier time if there were not so many "guidelines" for each lesson.  However, I am not a writer, nor a writing teacher.  I am not skilled in this subject in any way, and I feel fairly confident that if we make an honest and willful attempt to follow through with the curriculum, my ds will benefit.   I've used all of SWB's curricula, and I do feel that my 8th grade son is doing a great job as a result.  I also love the ideas presented by others in enhancing this curriculum.  I'm not  a writing teacher, and I'm not a great writer, and therefore feel unworthy to critique or offer valuable feedback on this subject.  I do feel it is unwise to judge a curriculum as "flawed" simply because you don't want to take the time to make it work.  In all fairness, I only have two kids, and I know how much time is put into our schooling - it is difficult at times.  

 

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 I was in the beta-testing group for WWS3, and I was of zero help in regard to input because writing is not my strong suit, and I need my hand to be held through the process.  Although I have had many moments when I feel insecure and rather challenged, I have appreciated WWS (all of the levels) because I know it is a curriculum that is offering my kids far more than I could give on my own.

 

Are you referring to WWE?  Because WWS3 is just now coming out for beta testing.

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We are mid-WWS1.   My ds is also pulling in elements of our previous studies in IEW. He also keyword-outlines rather than note clusters. He enjoys having specific things that he is required to incorporate into his work.  He is learning how to better transition between paragraphs in sequential writing. He still tends to use a narrower vocabulary in his writing (compared to his speaking or passive vocabulary) but that's because he's using so much brain power trying to remember mechanics and handwriting as well.  The lessons encourage him to broaden his writing voice, and there's enough material in the teacher manual that it's easy for me to help him find richer words to use.

 

We did introduce "the forest" at the beginning of the course by talking about genres of writing and by reviewing the syllabus.  I really appreciate the academic nature of this writing course as it helps him prepare for writing higher level essays.  He was able to connect that he's learning a valuable life skill, and that's generated more buy-in than we have had with other programs. We also frequently review the topoi.  We have started having him orally narrate from his history lessons again, occasionally, so that he makes some cross connections. I have to be careful about overburdening him with writing, so we aren't doing much writing across the curriculum......yet.

 

I've been pondering adapting WWS and looking at where we're going from here, so thanks for a timely thread!

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So far I am finding that ds11 does not need my assistance as much for level 2 as he did for level 1. That may change as the year goes on. We school nearly year-round and took a little longer than 36 weeks to finish level 1. The main help I gave was having him read the assignment aloud when he didn't understand (this also happened to be suggested in the teacher manual) and discuss the more difficult assignments with him when he felt lost. Once I had to offer background info for the source text provided because he had no context for it. That particular assignment was also a vocabulary challenge for him, dictionary required. And, as a fifth grader, he needed more than a week to complete some of the weeks. This year, he has had no problem thus far (only 8 weeks) in completing the assignments in one week, sometimes time days instead of four.

 

I always pre-read both teacher and student books, a few weeks at a time. We do notice types of paragraphs in our non-fiction reading. I like the idea of making a more visually available version of the topoi; thanks for the idea!

 

I between levels one and two, I gave some writing assignments that used the skills in level one. I really like how that consolidated the learning and plan to take longer than a year again with level two, taking breaks every so many weeks so that he can do more writing about topics of his choosing. Though there seems to be more of that in level 2, anyway,

 

Although it is written to be mostly independent, I think the key word is "mostly", or largely. :D No one ever said to just hand the student the book and go off to surf TWTM boards. ;) (I think SWB in the TM and her youtube video on the program is very clear about adjusting for your student and addressing about how long it is reasonable for a younger student to work on writing). There are some helps in the TM for each lesson. For some it will be more independent than others. I actually don't want my writing program to be fully independent. I need to stay engaged. Since I have a child who actually desires and enjoys to be handed a list and to do a lot on his own, I have to be careful that there is enough interaction and discussion in the important areas to constitute an excellent education, not just worksheets done and boxes checked.

 

Some of the reading assignments may be a challenge for kids on the younger end of the age range, but in context of the goals in TWTM where kids have been given an overview of history for four years prior and are able to read the books on the suggested fifth grade reading list, I don't think most of the text excerpts will be an issue, at least they were not for us.

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Some of the reading assignments may be a challenge for kids on the younger end of the age range, but in context of the goals in TWTM where kids have been given an overview of history for four years prior and are able to read the books on the suggested fifth grade reading list, I don't think most of the text excerpts will be an issue, at least they were not for us.

 

I've been pondering this, and I think you are putting your finger on something.  We didn't start hsing till 4th grade (though we had been reading SOTW after school for awhile), so when we started WWS in the spring of 4th grade, we were only just finishing up medieval history.  We did Early Modern in 5th while we were doing WWS.  So many of the history topics were completely unfamiliar to my dd.  And we had never studied Mars, or thermal vents, or volcanoes either.  I think it's true that for a student with more background knowledge - who have been exposed during the Grammar stage to the full range of topics suggested in WTM -this might be easier to do in 5th grade.

 

I think I said this already upthread, or maybe in a different thread, but one of the things SWB says in her lectures that I really agree with is that you shouldn't ask the student to do two new hard things at the same time - so doing a new, harder kind of writing, on new, complex content that you are completely unfamiliar with is going to be difficult.  

 

All this goes to support my suspicion that we did WWS too soon.  My dd was capable of doing the writing assignments, and she was definitely ready for more than WWE, but she wasn't really fully ready to benefit from WWS the way she could have later.  Problem is, I didn't have the confidence to teach w/o a curriculum at the time, and I didn't know what else to do.  In retrospect, I should have just followed SWB's recommendations (in her writing lecture) for 5th grade, and done WWS in 6th.  But I had the feeling that, since she had written this new program for 5th graders, it must supersede her previous recommendations for a 5th grade writing program.  I'm still curious about that.

 

Well, hopefully I'll remember this lesson, and if I decide to use WWS with dd7, I'll wait till she's really ready.

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Yeah, for some kids it could be up to three hard things at once: the writing, the content, and then being able to read and follow the sometimes complicated directions.

 

It's funny, because in my schools growing up, the outlining was considered the more advanced skill, judging from when it was taught. I remember copying history outlines from the board for weeks as the teacher read and outlined the textbook, before we were expected to do it on our own. But I was definitely expected to do writing similar to that in WWS in grade five, without as much scaffolding, like being given the list of facts to write about as in in WWS1. But I don't ever hear anyone saying their child has trouble with the outlining or copia parts of the program; those have been the easier days here.

 

It's kind of nice to know there is time built in there in late elementary where it still works out just fine to wait when kids aren't ready. After SWB finishes her whole writing series, maybe we can convince her to write a "gap" program for in between WWE and WWS that isn't just more narration. In, um, 2022? LOL. I guess the Creative Writer can fill that gap, or there are lots of other programs, but I'm curious to know what she would do with a child who wasn't quite ready for WWS but was going to mutiny over one more year of only narrations and dictations.

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..., but I'm curious to know what she would do with a child who wasn't quite ready for WWS but was going to mutiny over one more year of only narrations and dictations.

 

Perhaps that's where her suggestions for "5th grade writing" comes in? Doing the one level outlines & starting to write narrations from them? 

 

We didn't start WWS until spring of dd#1's 6th grade year. We'd been doing one & two-level outlines for history since the beginning of 6th and asking her to rewrite from them about once per week.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think her original recommendations for beginning logic stage writing in her talks bridges the gap between WWE & WWS. 

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I only have experience with WWS1.  I heavily tweaked the program. While I will buy WWS 2, it will be used for ideas and a framework.  I am planning to teach writing without a particular writing curriculum. 

 

We got though most of the book in 6th grade, and wrapped it up at the beginning of 7th (this year). 

 

I think that the major changes were:

 

  • I had DS swap out topics from an early point in the program. 
  • I went with MLA format whenever there was a contradiction.
  • I skipped the copia exercises.
  • I stopped assigning the outlining.  Instead, I gave him outlining assignments from a variety of sources. 
  • I streamlined some of the assignments.  This was the only time that I felt like I was going to go crazy.  I had to get away from the parts-to-whole process, but this meant actually rewriting the assignment so that it would be clear to DS.

 

I certainly taught the program.  And when I look back at DS's 6th grade writing portfolio, I am happy :)

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...or there are lots of other programs, but I'm curious to know what she would do with a child who wasn't quite ready for WWS but was going to mutiny over one more year of only narrations and dictations.

This is where I think it can help to look at other WTM recommendations. For us, IEW is working as a fantastic bridge. I do a daily writing workshop with the kids, incorporating lots of different resources.

 

I can't speak to WWS yet, but I will say I teach the heck out of writing here. LOL

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Yes, I think you guys are on to something . . . do a year (or more) of writing across the curriculum before starting WWS in 6th grade sounds like a better plan for the next time around.  Of course, with CAP's new W&R program being released a perfect year ahead of dd7, we might end up going in a different direction, and I'm still not sure whether I'll do WWS2 w/ dd10 . . . but I'm feeling like I have a lot more options now than I did as a newbie with a 4th grader who was bored to tears with narration & dictation.

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The more I think about it, the more I think her original recommendations for beginning logic stage writing in her talks bridges the gap between WWE & WWS. 

 

School Composition for Use in Higher Grammar Classes (Maxwell, 1902) is a nice resource which could fit if your child already knows how to write paragraphs well.  It is a free download from Google Books, or else you can buy a printed copy fairly inexpensively on Amazon.  I am using it this year with my 5th grader instead of WWS, and I am extremely happy with it.

http://books.google.com/books/about/School_Composition.html?id=E_8AAAAAYAAJ

 

If your child is not solid on paragraph writing, there are numerous workbooky programs that are good for teaching this skill.

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I've just read the first 5 weeks of WWS3, and weeks 4-5 are for writing a 800 word composition with the topic chosen by the student.

 

This is good to know, thanks! It's helpful to know what direction the program is heading.

 

Here's a quick overview of our WWS 1/MCT Advanced Academic Writing 1 (AAW1) schedule for the next couple months.

 

1. WWS1--Finish week 34

2. AAW1--Assignment 1

3. WWS1 Final project (weeks 35 and 36) and MCT AAW1 Assignment 2-- (Combined because they dovetail nicely.)

4. AAW1--Final two assignments (3&4)

 

That should put us on target to start AAW2 and WWS2 after the first of the year, which will be mid-7th grade.

 

We usually do WWS as written, but at a much slower pace. It is not unusual for a step to take a day, a day to take a week, and a week to take, well. . .you get the idea. ;)

 

We do multiple revisions, which can take quite some time. We also discuss relevant concepts from other resources we are using.

 

Some weeks require full involvement on my part. Other weeks require only the amount written in the program.

 

WWS is a tool for us. It's not the whole toolbox.

 

ETA: We do other writing, but the above is what we work on during our writing time. I consider the other writing to be part of science, history, etc., although we do discuss writing concepts throughout the day. We also have writing books for shared reading.

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Hello Lewelma! 

 

My kids are both back in PS, however we have continued our WWS work among with a few other subjects at home.  We typically do WWS 3-4 days a week.  I love the idea of having it up on a wall somewhere to review, as I find myself having them turn back to the reference section and review.  ds10 has started on WWS2, and we move through the week at about half pace.  dd12 is on WWS2 Week 24 I believe.  She has LOVED the rewriting sections, as it reminded her of all the Classical Composition work we did with fables years back.

 

So far it is going well.  I have thoroughly enjoyed it, especially when compared to what they are doing in PS.  dd12 excels in LA, grammar, and vocab primarily due to WWS and MCT.  Both kids received advanced scores in the states MSP testing, so something is sticking.  ;-)

 

Having looked at so many curriculums over the years, I have found WWS to be the most advanced version of writing instruction that I have ever seen.  It has been exactly what we needed, and when I can sit and talk with dd12 about how a particular classical essay, scientific article, etc. was put together, she SEES it. She has definitely gone beyond the standard Intro, 3 things, conclusion type writing of her PS peers.  She loves having options with how to form her composition.  She sees now that there is not one way to write about a particular subject, but multiple ways depending on what you want to get across to the reader. 

 

Would I say she has it ALL figured out at the age of 12 .. no.  But I know we will continue down this path, and she can only continue to improve with practice.  I loved your ideas Ruth, and it does help to make the lesson all come together when you add those things in.  ;-)

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WWS2 arrived! :party:

 

As I was flipping through it, I remembered something I forgot to mention in my previous post.

 

I glanced through WWS1 before we started it or soon after to see what books would be used. I ordered any books I thought my dd would enjoy. It was a bit of a game to see if I was correct about the ones that would interest her enough to want the book. She surprised me with some she requested! (Which I then ordered.)

 

I think that's one reason my dd usually likes WWS, she enjoys the selections.

 

In just a few minutes glancing through WWS2, I know my dd is going to be over the moon with a few selections.

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WWS2 arrived! :party:

 

As I was flipping through it, I remembered something I forgot to mention in my previous post.

 

I glanced through WWS1 before we started it or soon after to see what books would be used. I ordered any books I thought my dd would enjoy. It was a bit of a game to see if I was correct about the ones that would interest her enough to want the book. She surprised me with some she requested! (Which I then ordered.)

 

I think that's one reason my dd usually likes WWS, she enjoys the selections.

 

In just a few minutes glancing through WWS2, I know my dd is going to be over the moon with a few selections.

 

 

oooo, which ones?  I'm still on the fence about ordering this.  Knowing you, you will push me over!!  :toetap05:   ;)  :001_tt2:

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Well, I finally decided to have my mother spend $60 to ship my FREE copy of WWS2 to NZ.  sigh.  But I too am desperate to get my hands on it!  My older boy will need to compact the last 20 weeks of it and do it concurrently with beta testing WWS3.  We will see how well this goes.  He is keen.

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I glanced through WWS1 before we started it or soon after to see what books would be used. I ordered any books I thought my dd would enjoy. It was a bit of a game to see if I was correct about the ones that would interest her enough to want the book. She surprised me with some she requested! (Which I then ordered.)

 

 

This is fascinating.  Are you just talking about the literature selections, or the nonfiction also?  Because a lot of the nonfiction is old.

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Older ds and I spent 40 today talking about a possible topic for the first expository research paper in WWS3 which is supposed to be 4 typed pages long. I learned a couple of things in the last 1.5 years having done WWS1 and half of WWS2 -- he does not like to write about something he knows nothing about, but he also does not want to write about something easy and obvious.  He simply cannot understand where to put in footnotes if he is just writing an expository paper about facts, events, scientific processes, etc.  So last night when we were watching some old Downton Abbey (shhhh, don't tell), he was fascinated by the servant with PTSD caused by his experiences in WW1.  This led to a very interesting discussion, and I finally told him that our downstairs neighbor had this because she had lived through the revolution in Fiji as the daughter of one of the government officials (her stories are not nice).  He had always wondered what was wrong with her and why I was helping so much. 

 

So today we had another long talk about making this his research project.  It is not just facts because it also includes experiences and opinions which is really good from his point of view.  So we talked about what kinds of paragraphs could be included in this kind of paper and how he would or would not footnote:

 

1) an evocative narrative of someone's personal experience (which would clearly get a footnote)

2) a description of a natural sequence: how memories are stored (probably no footnote)

3) an expository paragraph about current opinion on the best ways to treat it and any controversy (clearly more footnotes)

 

I told him that he has 3 weeks to really read up on the topic, because then he has only 2 weeks to take notes and write the paper.

 

He is still considering it, but it looks to be a winner.

 

------

 

WWS3 is having the students outline both the topic and paragraph type (description of natural process, chronological narrative, etc) for each paragraph in the essay before taking notes into the outline.  I think that this will work very very well for my son. 

 

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Well, I have been going over the WWS scope and sequence, and condensing it. I plan to show both boys what the whole plan is and tick off as they learn things. I think I will make little cutouts of the parts of this outline and stick them down with bluetack (removable gummy stuff). Then my kids can write up their 'how-to' notes every week on separate card and shift the outline cuttouts around to add their notes under the appropriate category. My younger would love his board to be colorful with big bubbles and strings, my older will want it in linear outline form. Might be interesting to have the 2 compare how the other perceives of his writing knowledge. I think that this will keep the big picture in mind and also make clear the goals and where they are headed.

 

Narration

chronologically

by significance

 

Description

spatial

sequence

 

Explanation

definition

essence

genus division

function

comparison

essence

genus division

function

degree

in time

cause and effect/circumstance

what proceeds, what follows

consequences

causes

 

looks like in general:

level 1: chronological narration and description

level 2: explanation by definition and comparison

level 3: narration by significance, cause and effect/circumstance

level 4: not really sure, but looks like an integration of all of it with more complexity

 

But there is a lot of practice and augmentation across the levels in all topics.

 

 

The other large areas of learning that don't fit into the above list are:

 

Research

note taking

references

 

Literary analysis

prose

poetry

 

these things appear in all three levels.

Very nice. Thanks for sharing. :)
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We did 26 weeks of WWS 1 last school year. Now we are taking it v e r y slowly. We are on Week 29. Ds10 has to take one step a day in each of the one day work. I doubt anyone can do Day 1 in one day because there are so many notes to type. I do not have a problem with one step a day as long as he is learning. The concept is new and challenging to him.

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My 12 yo just this week finished the big final writing assignment at the end of WWS 1. He did what I honestly think was an excellent job with the WRITING of this paper. He needed coaching with some of the other parts though, for instance, he took most of his notes for his biographical sketch, and not nearly enough for the scientific description. He also wrote the biographical sketch right off the bat, straight from his note cards, and it was one loooooooong paragraph. At first, I was a bit frustrated that he didn't follow the directions well, didn't make an outline, didn't organize his notes first.

 

But like many kids his age, he needs to still be walked through these steps. He simply cannot do it alone, unassisted. Ruth, I think your method of putting up posters and other visual aids is excellent, as well as helping the student to see the topoi in other pieces of writing. In my own case, this ds doesn't easily extrapolate from one learning experience to another. So it made sense for him to not make an outline-takes too long, right?! He definitely needs more practice with these ideas to "own" them an more importantly, to carry them with him to school. I am tentatively planning to send him to high school.

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Just started my younger boy on WWS1. He will be in 5th grade in January (yes, the Southern Hemisphere), so we are a bit early. But he loves writing, so I'm not super concerned. This week I am having him write an expository essay with a narrative, descriptive, and expository paragraph to basically 1) see where he is *before* starting WWS1 and 2) show him the big picture of what he will be learning.

 

DH has read to him the book 'Shutting out the sky' about the NY slums from 1880-1910 or so. I helped to scaffold the composition with the content and paragraph types for the 3 paragraphs, and then today he filled in the outline using the IEW key work outline approach.

 

1. narrative - 'Imagine you are a peasant living in Ireland....'

2. descriptive - Smells, sights, and sounds of NY

3. expository - *why* it was so bad (he chose: a. greedy landlords, b. crooked street cleaners, c. dirty water causing disease)

 

It will be very interesting to see what he can write now and then compare it to what he can write a year from now.

 

Ruth in NZ

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oooo, which ones?  I'm still on the fence about ordering this.  Knowing you, you will push me over!!  :toetap05:   ;)  :001_tt2:

 

Ack! You know I hate that pressure! :ohmy:  ;)

 

The first selection that grabbed my attention was "The Highwayman" by Alfred Noyes. Thanks to Loreena McKennitt, we have already studied, memorized, and enjoyed the poem for quite some time. I can't wait to see DD's reaction to it being in WWS 2.

 

Flipping through the index I saw William Harvey, Jared Diamond, Rachel Carson, Julius Caesar, and others. That's all it took to impress me. My work previewing WWS 2 was compete. :gnorsi:

 

It came, I saw, I posted. :tongue_smilie:

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Some of each.

 

I'm confused. :confused:  Do you mean how do I find old books?

 

Most of the nonfiction is old in WWS1.  Are you actually getting all these books to hold and read completely instead of just using her 4-page photocopied selections? 

 

The prison life of Marie Antoeinette 1893

Women in history 1913

Class book of nature  1839

Real things in nature 1910

etc

 

I have found that using material that my kids are familiar with is incredibly important to having them write easily.  So either they have read the story before, or are very knowledgeable on the nonfiction topic.  To achieve this knowledge, I have, just like you, had my kids read the fiction literature that will be in the program, but I have not purchased/google-booked/Gutenberged the nonfiction books for them to read completely.  Are you doing this?

 

Thanks!

 

Ruth in NZ

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Most of the nonfiction is old in WWS1.  Are you actually getting all these books to hold and read completely instead of just using her 4-page photocopied selections? 

 

The prison life of Marie Antoeinette 1893

Women in history 1913

Class book of nature  1839

Real things in nature 1910

etc

 

I have found that using material that my kids are familiar with is incredibly important to having them write easily.  So either they have read the story before, or are very knowledgeable on the nonfiction topic.  To achieve this knowledge, I have, just like you, had my kids read the fiction literature that will be in the program, but I have not purchased/google-booked the nonfiction books for them to read completely.  Are you doing this?

 

Thanks!

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Perhaps I was unclear.  I don't order all the books.  I just order the ones of particular interest. To be clear, I don't give them to her to read before or to help with the assignment. I order them for her to read for the pure enjoyment of reading them--after the assignment.

 

The ones you listed weren't requested by her and didn't draw my attention, but yes, I ordered some nonfiction as well.

 

 

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