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What does your distant ethnic identity mean to you?


Laura Corin
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What does it mean to me? Well it's hard to describe exactly what it means to me but it definitely means something strong. I am by a direct female line seventh generation Irish Australian. Seven generations is a very long time in a very young country yet because my great-great whatever Grandmother Brigit McNamara from County Clare settled in a particular part of this country, my own grandmother had an aunt and some cousins whose branch of the family were isolated enough that they spoke a Gaelic-English pidgeon (pidgen? Autocorrect insists on the bird). So my maternal family is still HUGELY influenced culturally by their Irish roots. My mother is actually the first to have left the region Brigit settled in. Add to that the history here of the persecution of Irish Catholics (anything more than a cursory Google on Ned Kelly will show you some of that) & you have a strong feeling of identification. That's without those feelings of "these are my people etc" I experienced when I started playing Irish music or learning a few words of Gaelic.

Interestingly, despite all the above I wasn't aware just how much my family culture is "Irish" until I married DH who is first gen & his parents are "ten pound poms". He identifies completely as "Australian", yet we have discovered many areas where his upbringing has left him very British.

Of course I would never claim to be Irish, I'm not. But I have a lot more in common culturally with my friends who are actually from Ireland than I do with DH who was born & raised in the same country as me.

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Dad was born here, but to English parents, and he was whisked away to England (Liverpool) to be raised until he was 16, then he and his parents/sibs moved here. But I always explain that he's from England, even tho he's an American citizen; it's like it's a special thing. (And we were not culturally English, really--Mom didn't make special foods or anything, but our English heritage was a point of pride for some reason.)

 

I think that's kinda weird!

 

My mom is first gen American from German parents. They did not speak German at home. Assimilation into the American culture was very high on their priority list. It was NOT a point of pride to be German. 

 

I think, back then, melting pot was the desired outcome of coming here. I think now tapestry is more desired. Back then, you wanted to fit in. You could still eat the foods of your "home" country and all that, but only at home--your packed lunch at school better be "American" and you better wear the same stuff as everyone else, not showing any ethnic identity in clothing.

Now it seems you want to stand out. (For example, kids bring sushi to school--that wouldn't have happened earlier.) Being true to your roots doesn't really stand out, even--People seem more proud of their heritage and more public about it. There's an openess I think that wasn't there 40-60 years ago. 

 IDK--both have their merits. I think the best approach is a both/and sort of thing. 

(Maybe part of it is also who we've been at war with.) 

 

Personally, I think there are folks whose families came from somewhere else in the early part of our country who consider themselves more worthy to be called American than those who recently "came over." It's like there's a cut-off in time, of who is considered American and who is considered a foreigner but living in America (even if they were born here). Also, in my own experience of my hometown and my close relatives, England/European (part of Europe, anyway) extraction is  ok, but everything else is suspect. Isn't that sad? 

 

(Oops--I seem to have wandered into the territory you didn't want to, Laura--I apologize if I am going in a bad direction.)

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I also wanted to say that I agree with the PP that brought up the idea that it is difficult for someone from a culturally homogenous background to understand how identity works in a "melting pot/veggie soup/culturally diverse" region.

I started primary school in Melbourne in 1981, 1/3 of my classmates had Italian parents and another 1/3 had Greek. Malaka was the first playground swear word I learnt. I had one Chinese friend which was unusual because most of the Asian kids (around another 1/5 of the school population) were refugees from Vietnam. My best friend was Indian. Well, so she strongly identified herself & so her physical appearance and dress marked her. Her father was a university professor and they followed his work to Germany when she was still a baby and stayed till she was five. Her first language was German, second was Hindi, third was a local Indian dialect and fourth was English which she spoke extremely well but with a heavy German accent. Her story wasn't hugely a unusual one among my classmates all through school. If you live now as an adult in the country your grandparents were born in, which is also the country most of your childhood friend's parent were born in, and your teachers parents and your co-workers great-grandparents etc then it must be difficult to understand why someone would even bother saying something other than "I am Australian" or "I am American" (the friend I mentioned had citizenship by the way, she could have said that too).

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Almost nothing. I'm not interested in genealogy either.

 

Before I married, no one asked because my maiden name is very uniquely German. Everyone presumed I was of German decent because of the name. Which I guess I was, but it's kind of silly to me to base it on that because it completely ignores maternal lines. My paternal great grandfather came to America for the Oklahoma land runs! stopped in Ohio to get married on his way here. There is quite a decent sized German population if settlers who did the same here. A family member still owns an itty parcel of that original land grant. But I've never seen it and don't care. I have family that has gone back to where that great grandfather was from in German to met "family" there, but I have no desire to do so.

 

I'm told I am very German in my mannerisms and some other aspects. Usually it's not said in a flattering way. It seems that German food is the only flattery available culturally? But I wonder if that's because there was so much anti German sentiment just a generation or so ago? I remember my grandmother saying a great uncle contemplated changing his last name when he went off to fight in the war and some kids being picked on in school for having such German looks and names.

 

And I'll say there's some areas of America that I do think have adopted their own American ethnic identity. Texans for example. Just about no matter where a Texan moves in life, they still say they are from Texas. (I say this as the wife if a man who has hung a 20x18 mounted and framed copy of his Texas birth certificate on the living room wall. I just don't know many folks from Kansas who feel like that.)

 

Most folks from Oklahoma don't say things like, "I'm Oklahoman." But they sure do in Texas. My mil says she's even noticed that when traveling over seas. She'll run into another American traveler and they will start off with saying they're from the states too and then say where they live at home. "Hey I'm American too - Oakland, California!" or "Hey I'm from Texas, where are you from?"

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I have something else to add.  *ahem* (clearing throat)   :hat:   My grandpa died last year and he was like the "Keeper of the Family History".  He had old tin prints of our descendants who moved to the US from Spain in the late 1800s.  He had old McGuffey Readers (Lol) with older family members' names written in them (in awesome cursive).  He recorded the names and took pictures of (while they were still alive) my great grandfather, my great-great grandparents and their family members who were Native American.  He wasn't doing that to feel special or make sure there wasn't anything strange in the family...  If he wouldn't have done all that, those people would eventually be forgotten.  :(   They were real people and I think their backgrounds (at the time) were a big part of who they were.

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And I'll say there's some areas of America that I do think have adopted their own American ethnic identity. Texans for example. Just about no matter where a Texan moves in life, they still say they are from Texas. (I say this as the wife if a man who has hung a 20x18 mounted and framed copy of his Texas birth certificate on the living room wall. I just don't know many folks from Kansas who feel like that.)

 

 

:lol:  Yep!  (we're in DFW, BTW)

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I also wanted to say that I agree with the PP that brought up the idea that it is difficult for someone from a culturally homogenous background to understand how identity works in a "melting pot/veggie soup/culturally diverse" region.

I started primary school in Melbourne in 1981, 1/3 of my classmates had Italian parents and another 1/3 had Greek. Malaka was the first playground swear word I learnt. I had one Chinese friend which was unusual because most of the Asian kids (around another 1/5 of the school population) were refugees from Vietnam. My best friend was Indian. Well, so she strongly identified herself & so her physical appearance and dress marked her. Her father was a university professor and they followed his work to Germany when she was still a baby and stayed till she was five. Her first language was German, second was Hindi, third was a local Indian dialect and fourth was English which she spoke extremely well but with a heavy German accent.

 

You see, this situation I actually do understand: much of Britain is very culturally diverse with many first and second generation immigrants.  What I'm trying to understand is people holding on to ethnic identities that are much further back in their past, where there are no lingering cultural or linguistic influences on them, but the origins matter nonetheless.

 

L

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It's my heritage and part of my story. It's interesting to know my family history. My family comes from Merthyr Tydfil in Wales. My grandparents were the first to be born in America. I still have cousins and relatives in Wales. My family has been over there & we have stayed with them and keep in touch. Seeing the home my great grandfather was born in, meeting people that share a family history with me, recognizing resemblances, etc. it was really cool! Also, where my great grandparents settled in Scranton, PA looks so much like Merthyr Tydfil. It was a coal mining town too & it is amazing to see both places and envision how it must of reminded them of their home in Wales. Even where they settled in Scranton has a huge welsh neighborhood, and to this day when I go there I'm served welsh cookies and faggots, lol. My grandparents all spoke cymraeg, and now today I even speak a little because that history was passed down. I am American, not welsh. But my history includes Welsh heritage and I am proud of that.

 

ETA - and really in thinking about this, I really think my extended family would be a little insulted if I said my welsh roots didn't matter to me and held no relevance. I think they would find that sentiment rather hurtful to be honest.

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You see, this situation I actually do understand: much of Britain is very culturally diverse with many first and second generation immigrants. What I'm trying to understand is people holding on to ethnic identities that are much further back in their past, where there are no lingering cultural or linguistic influences on them, but the origins matter nonetheless.

 

L

But that was the point of my first post & what a lot of other posters have been describing - that some aspects of culture and even language are still lingering after a long time (seven generations in my case).
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It only has meaning to me in reference to my ancestors.  I don't say "I'm English, Austrian and Swiss."  I say, "my mother's parents came from Switzerland. Her father's family from Austria.  My father's family came from England." 

 

Technically, I came from Beirut because that's where I was born, but I have no Lebanese identity whatsoever beyond that.  So, I'm certainly not Lebanese.  I was raise in the US, but haven't been an American citizens for a dozen years now, so I'm not American either.  Even though a case could be made for saying that I came from America, that means nothing to me other than a geographical point of departure.

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That is quite a claim.

 

Will you give some specific examples?  I'm curious!

 

Hm, I can't speak for the previous poster, but in my case, I'd say that some of my straight-forwardness (some might call it bluntness) is from my German ancestry.  I'm not sure how many (if any) personality traits are truly related to my ancestry, but that's one I'd claim. ;)

 

In response to Laura's original query -- I wonder if the fact that *Americans* mention their distant ancestry is related to the fact that no emigrant to America has been here for more than a few hundred years. Almost *everyone* is a recent immigrant who came from "somewhere else." Perhaps we Americans just want to connect to the place from which our immigrant ancestors came.

 

I identify with my distant ancestors more in a genealogical way than a cultural way, fwiw. 

 

Lisa

whose distant ancestors are Irish, English, Swedish, and German ;-) 

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Hm, I can't speak for the previous poster, but in my case, I'd say that some of my straight-forwardness (some might call it bluntness) is from my German ancestry. I'm not sure how many (if any) personality traits are truly related to my ancestry, but that's one I'd claim. ;)

 

Well I blame it on me, but my whole life I've been told it's German to be:

efficient

Blunt

A bit loud everywhere BUT church IF they went to church at all

A tendency to be too patriotic

To drink too much, especially beer

Food: meat, onions, in a bazillion different ways

 

I personally don't think that's all or any necessarily German, but I've heard it my whole life. However, my dh has a less German name and doesn't get it ever. I wonder if my very very German maiden name simply colored people's choice of stereotype to apply? Probably I think.

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Hm, I can't speak for the previous poster, but in my case, I'd say that some of my straight-forwardness (some might call it bluntness) is from my German ancestry.  I'm not sure how many (if any) personality traits are truly related to my ancestry, but that's one I'd claim. ;)

I'm acquainted with a woman who pins her bluntness on being from new York.

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I find it interesting how many people find their identity (to some degree) in their family.  That's probably more "normal" than me - who tends to find my identity in friends.  But I was at boarding school - hundreds of miles and later thousands of miles - away from all family from the age of 11.  So friends became my family.  And since my friends had no collective ethnic background. . . .  ethnicity doesn't mean so much to me.  

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I find it interesting how many people find their identity (to some degree) in their family. That's probably more "normal" than me - who tends to find my identity in friends. But I was at boarding school - hundreds of miles and later thousands of miles - away from all family from the age of 11. So friends became my family. And since my friends had no collective ethnic background. . . . ethnicity doesn't mean so much to me.

I think people want ethnicity to mean much more than it actually does. People are people.

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What I'm trying to understand is people holding on to ethnic identities that are much further back in their past, where there are no lingering cultural or linguistic influences on them, but the origins matter nonetheless.

 

L

I misunderstood your earlier question then. The asians I know who's ancestors migrated very early to the states has kept most of their culture and most send their kids to "native" language classes on weekends or after school care.

 

There is also a large foreign population where I am living so maybe those whose great grandparents were born in the states felt left out of our discussions on which countries we came from and decided to join in the fun :)

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It means more to me as I get older, but I don't see the American independent spirit as necessarily a good thing. I don't think it's healthy to "slough off" the past, or family, or where we came from. I may not have strong ties with my parents or siblings, but who were my grandparents? I never really knew them. Do I have anything in common with them? I see how strong some genetic traits are coming through my mom or my dad, and being passed on to me and my sisters, and I wonder what I got from previous generations. My mom would sing me Irish lullaby songs when I was younger that she learned from her mom, who probably learned them from her mom....stuff like that is what makes up the story of a life. Who are we without our family stories?

 

I joined Ancestry.com over a year ago, and recently got a message from another member who turns out is related to me. I just discovered one of my ancestors came over on the Mayflower. How cool. I know there are millions of us, but it's neat to be able to learn more about such a huge event that one of my ancestors went through. If he hadn't survived that first winter, I wouldn't be here.

 

I don't know, I think it's cool. I feel for them, I'm curious about them, how they survived, where they came from, what they went through. All of it together makes up who I am.

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Minnesota still has a strong Scandinavian culture (Americanized to a certain degree, of course) and my Norwegian ancestry makes me a part of that community. It also means we have to eat lutefisk during the holidays, which is almost enough to get me to renounce my Norwegian half. :P

Yes. Sometimes the ancestry being identified is not so distant, or only distant in terms of time. My brother was in Thailand years ago and meet some English women who asked him where he was from. He said he was Canadian but his family was mostly Scottish. They didn't think much of that answer and let him know he was in no way Scottish. But...

 

Although my dad's family came over in the 1700s my grandfather's first language was Gaelic. The community my dad grew up in was steeped in Scottish tradition. A few years before my

r grandfather died he had a Scottish bag piper visit him to record pipe and fiddle traditional Scottish tunes my grandfather knew that were lost in Scotland.

 

So when my brother told those women about being Scottish it was a true and accurate cultural description. There are parts of this province that are almost more Scottish then Scotland or at least reflect a Scotland, that for the UK disappeared generations ago.

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Although my dad's family came over in the 1700s my grandfather's first language was Gaelic. The community my dad grew up in was steeped in Scottish tradition. A few years before my

r grandfather died he had a Scottish bag piper visit him to record pipe and fiddle traditional Scottish tunes my grandfather knew that were lost in Scotland.

 

 

This I can understand too.  I guess I don't have a feel for that kind of length of family tradition.  My great grandmother was Jewish, but nothing came down to me of the religion or culture.  There were undoubtedly social reasons in the Britain of the day why someone who married out would want to assimilate, but because of the lack of tradition, that ancestry has no resonance for me.

 

L

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I find it interesting to know where I come from and I do wonder about some traits being genetic.  Researching our genealogy has been fascinating.

 

My father's English father, who had met and married my Dutch grandmother during WW II, died aboard a submarine when my father was only two months old.  Because of her nationality my grandmother was shunned by her MIL and after the war she returned to the Netherlands and from there emigrated to South Africa with her brothers (because having married my grandfather she was now British!).  Although he had been encouraged by my grandmother to join the merchant navy, my father was astonished to learn that he comes from a very long line (at least 7 generations) of mariners.  In both his paternal and maternal lines.  The sea is in his blood.   

 

My maternal Dutch line is full of craftsmen - the family were mostly masons and wagon makers. 

 

I discovered that my husband, can trace his maternal line back to the William the Conqueror and even further back to the Vikings and the Franks.  His great grandfather arrived as part of the military in the Anglo-Boer war.  And interestingly, his paternal side who arrived as 1820 Settlers, fought for the other side.

 

I think in concepts and am extremely practical, but my language skills aren't always the best.  My husband has an incredible way with words. I often wonder if this is just the way we are, of if those long lines of craftsmen that shape my genes, and the noblemen that shape his, do have an effect on how our brains work. 

 

With three Dutch grandparents, our family traditions are Dutch, I speak the language and have lived in the country, but I'm not Dutch.  I am South African.

My sisters have moved to England and Ireland.  My sister in London is married to a Canadian and is very happy in the melting pot of London - most of her friends were born elsewhere.  My sister in Ireland, married to an Irishman, will always be a 'blow-in' in the town she lives.  She has many friends and is happy there, but it will never be 'home'.

 

 

 

 

 

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I think the Canadian poster is not completely off the mark in many cases, though it isn't necessarily "not black." It has varied through time and by region what you didn't want to be. "Not German" or "not Japanese" during and shortly after WWII; "not Mexican" in areas with lots of illegal immigrants, etc.

 

I suspect the vast size and the overall mobility in the United States is a factor , too. We have less connection to community than most Europeans I know.

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Yes. Sometimes the ancestry being identified is not so distant, or only distant in terms of time. My brother was in Thailand years ago and meet some English women who asked him where he was from. He said he was Canadian but his family was mostly Scottish. They didn't think much of that answer and let him know he was in no way Scottish. But...

 

 

I've been think about this aspect.  What a born and bred British* person means by British (English, Scottish, Welsh Northern Irish), I suspect, is not only to do with history, lineage, customs but also a life lived in Britain.  This is hard to explain, but it's experiencing power blackouts in the 70s, attending that street party for the royal wedding, watching the ships go off to war in the Falklands, understanding what the Olympics opening ceremony meant, walking by bomb sites left over from WWII, having your local coal pit shut down during the Thatcher era, walking out the day after the hurricane and seeing 500 year old oaks on the ground, valuing the NHS as an emblematic national treasure, coping through the years of terrorist attacks....

 

So, to a Brit, being English, or Scottish or whatever is an amalgam of tradition and a life lived.  I think that the oddness - to us - of the diaspora talking about that ethnicity may lie there.  I'm not saying that the diaspora is wrong, but just pointing out where the dissonance may lie.

 

FWIW, I don't feel fully English because I lived overseas for twenty years and missed out on a lot of the changes in the 80s and 90s.

 

* By British here I don't mean 'white British', just to be clear

 

L

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I never really thought of how different the concept really is until now.  My maiden name is very Swedish.  No one can pronounce it even though it has been english-ized.  So people would always ask what ethnicity I was.  We had family heirlooms that were Swedish around our house.  We had some Swedish Christmas decorations and some of our family traditions or holiday foods were Swedish.

 We always considered ourselves completely American.  I think that's part of being American, being able to either be identified with a Native American group or a different country for ancestry--if that makes sense.

 

On a side note-- my dh has a very common American last name, but was adopted from Guatemala. His name and his look do not match.  He considers himself completely American and actually I speak 100% more Spanish than he can.  When we go to different countries, people are very confused by him.  They don't understand what to classify him under.  

When my 2nd ds was little my dh was explaining his heritage, telling ds he was part Guatemalan, and Swede.  In my little ds's terms it came out a little different sounding "so I am Watermelon Seed?"  We still laugh about that one.

 

K

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It is important to remember that a lot of this changes depending on who is the observer.  A short story:

 

An advertising company was shooting a commercial in our neighborhood.  I was chatting up the producer and asked if he needed any cute kids for the commercial.  He said sure - he would love to have some foreign kids in the commercial.  I replied that I guess it wouldn't work out because my kids looks completely Indian.  My girlfriend was with me and she stared and me and said that my kids didn't look Indian at all and totally looked like foreigners!

 

Are my kids "Indian?"  Depends who you ask I guess.

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I've been think about this aspect. What a born and bred British* person means by British (English, Scottish, Welsh Northern Irish), I suspect, is not only to do with history, lineage, customs but also a life lived in Britain. This is hard to explain, but it's experiencing power blackouts in the 70s, attending that street party for the royal wedding, watching the ships go off to war in the Falklands, understanding what the Olympics opening ceremony meant, walking by bomb sites left over from WWII, having your local coal pit shut down during the Thatcher era, walking out the day after the hurricane and seeing 500 year old oaks on the ground, valuing the NHS as an emblematic national treasure, coping through the years of terrorist attacks....

 

So, to a Brit, being English, or Scottish or whatever is an amalgam of tradition and a life lived. I think that the oddness - to us - of the diaspora talking about that ethnicity may lie there. I'm not saying that the diaspora is wrong, but just pointing out where the dissonance may lie.

 

FWIW, I don't feel fully English because I lived overseas for twenty years and missed out on a lot of the changes in the 80s and 90s.

 

* By British here I don't mean 'white British', just to be clear

 

L

Thank you for those thoughts!

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It is important to remember that a lot of this changes depending on who is the observer.  A short story:

 

An advertising company was shooting a commercial in our neighborhood.  I was chatting up the producer and asked if he needed any cute kids for the commercial.  He said sure - he would love to have some foreign kids in the commercial.  I replied that I guess it wouldn't work out because my kids looks completely Indian.  My girlfriend was with me and she stared and me and said that my kids didn't look Indian at all and totally looked like foreigners!

 

Are my kids "Indian?"  Depends who you ask I guess.

Like my son (who definitely looks Asian though not necessarily Filipino) was called "white boy" in the Philippines.  

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I'm Canadian.  When I was younger and people asked, I'd say I was English and German.  Then I moved to England.  I discovered that I am really not English.  It doesn't matter that my family came from there however many generations ago.  Then I thought if I really wasn't English then I definitely wasn't German.  I am, however, very Canadian.

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I've been think about this aspect.  What a born and bred British* person means by British (English, Scottish, Welsh Northern Irish), I suspect, is not only to do with history, lineage, customs but also a life lived in Britain.  This is hard to explain, but it's experiencing power blackouts in the 70s, attending that street party for the royal wedding, watching the ships go off to war in the Falklands, understanding what the Olympics opening ceremony meant, walking by bomb sites left over from WWII, having your local coal pit shut down during the Thatcher era, walking out the day after the hurricane and seeing 500 year old oaks on the ground, valuing the NHS as an emblematic national treasure, coping through the years of terrorist attacks....

 

So, to a Brit, being English, or Scottish or whatever is an amalgam of tradition and a life lived.  I think that the oddness - to us - of the diaspora talking about that ethnicity may lie there.  I'm not saying that the diaspora is wrong, but just pointing out where the dissonance may lie.

 

FWIW, I don't feel fully English because I lived overseas for twenty years and missed out on a lot of the changes in the 80s and 90s.

 

* By British here I don't mean 'white British', just to be clear

 

L

 

Exactly.  This idea had a lot to do with my realization, in London, that I wasn't actually English.  I remember 9/11 - my dh and I were in a panic.  Dh wanted to send me and the kids home to Canada.  Our English friend basically said to calm down - he talked about the IRA bombings.  England has been through so much.  London has no garbage cans in the subways for goodness sake.  We didn't get it because we hadn't lived through it and our parents hadn't lived through it.  

 

Although I do value the NHS :)  

 

There's a world of cultural difference as well.  I had a serious case of culture shock when I moved to England.  I seriously thought it was going to be like Oak Bay in Victoria, BC.  Because I had lived in Oak Bay and Oak Bay was considered "very British".  Yeah right. 

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My husband's ancestry is almost entirely Danish, but the immigrants were several generations back, so he doesn't identify strongly with being Danish. For me it's a little bit different. My grandparents immigrated from France and Italy. I grew up near them and spent a lot of time listening to their stories, eating their food (my grandpa was a chef, trained in France), listening to their language and accents. My other grandpa was Polish, ate Polish food, spoke Polish, had a heavy Polish accent when he spoke English. I identify with my ancestry because it was actually a huge part of my life.

 

I think Americans claim their ancestry because it feels nice to have roots, to know where you come from. In this country, our roots are pretty shallow (especially for some of us), so it's nice to go further back and understand where we come from. As OP said, her family has lived in the UK for ages. That must feel pretty awesome to be so rooted in your country. Americans don't really have that. Even Americans with Native American ancestry don't usually have much of it--most of their ancestors are probably European.

 

Take pity on our rootless people. :)

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The Currency Lads and Lasses were the first (white) generation to be born in Australia, to convicts or freed convicts. They rejected the Mother Country as "home" and identified as Australian. It was as much about class as nationality; the upper classes remained British a lot longer. The country remained British a lot longer too, and has shed that in degrees, but Australian, with no hyphens, is a thing you can be. I'm not sure I'd believe it if a teacher said a child should have come dressed as German because Australian isn't an option. On a heritage dress up day, those without a foreign costume to wear would probably dress up as someone from the "olden days."

 

There has certainly been a rise in people's interest in genealogy and family heritage in recent times, but for Anglo-Australians at least, that comes from a foundation of Currency lads and lasses. Probably not for Deee though, as she's said parts of her ancestors culture has been carried on to each new generation here, so it is not distant ancestry in the way Czech is with me, something that happened in my family tree, long ago. For her family it didn't stop. It's different to my acknowledgement of Polish ancestry too. That culture stopped when my grandfather left Poland, but the family ties with his sister's family still haven't ceased.

 

People in Australia don't identify as more than one hyphen, or if they do, I've never heard of it. That might come from our desire to abbreviate everything though. Australians couldn't be bothered to be English-Irish-Scottish-Welsh-French-Norwegian-Macedonian-Arrente. :p

 

 

 

 

This might sound as though it contradicts what Deee said earlier, but it doesn't.

 

I find that very interesting, Rosie, as my grandmother came from Australia. Even though she married my grandfather, who is English. She didn't seem to like the English at all. She liked Americans a lot more and claimed to identify more with them, I think because of the class system. Maybe also because she grew up on sheep station. She liked American Westerns. Also, I think in 1960s London, the class system was more stifling than it is today. She seemed to be a little sensitive about being Australian. She would often point out that her grandmother was not a convict, but an Irish business woman. But my family have done a lot of geneological research and indeed there are quite a few convicts on the family tree. I find it fascinating. We are actually very lucky to know so much about the people that came before us.

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Being American I identify with being American.  Regionally, I identify with being from the west (the western US) because I prefer the culture here to that of New England culture, Southern culture, and Southern California coastal  culture.  I have no strong opinions about the cultures in regions I've never been to, but having been the other places I strongly dislike them culturally as a whole. It's not personal.

 

Ethnic heritage means nothing to me.  Rumor has it my maiden name (on dad's side) is Norwegian.  We joke about being desert vikings, but it's all just in jest.  Other family rumors are that mom's side is heavily German and based on perceptions of the German national character (systematic, orderly, rule following, etc.) we laugh about it and assume it's true.  There are other ancestors that are supposedly Scottish and Irish.  I have no idea if that's  true. Like what I suspect is true of at least 90% of Americans who had no personal relationship with immigrant ancestors, we don't really know and there's probably no truly reliable way to find out.  Who knows how many affairs, unannounced adoptions, etc. lurk in the lives of our ancestors and frankly, why would anyone care?

 

My youngest is a Korean adoptee, so it matters that she get a sense of what Korean is, but there's no chance she'll ever be culturally Korean because that requires living in a culture enough to master the cultural norms. Korean cultural norms are very nasty about illegitimacy and adoption.  She can only experience being Korean as a heritage in an academic way-which we're very conscientious to do.

 

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Food! :)  Recipes handed down. Religious feasts and celebrations. Old family stories and grainy black & white photos from the 'old country'. Surnames that are not Smith, Ford, and Radcliffe.

 

I thought about food, hence my s/o post about what food people ate growing up.  We ate a lot of Italian food.  We also ate tacos and stir fries and meat loaf.  I don't think we ate much that could be considered distinctly English or German (which is where our ethnic heritage goes back to).  

 

I'm baking my grandmother's bran muffin recipe right now :)  And my mom reminded me about my other grandmother's chocolate zucchini cake that I'm thinking of baking tonight.  

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It is very important to my parents, who are closer to the generation that immigrated here. They are both nearly, if not completely, 100% Swedish. They are still in contact with Swedish relatives, and in fact, my daughter will be staying with one of the Swedish families during her year abroad, during vacation.

 

On my husband's side, they are Irish with some English. The Irish helps explain their Catholicism and drinking! haha :)

 

Knowing heritage also seems more important to some of my children. They like knowing about their past. Sometimes, it seems to help explain certain personality quirks. :)

 

It's not so important to me, but it's kind of interesting to know.

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 As OP said, her family has lived in the UK for ages. That must feel pretty awesome to be so rooted in your country. Americans don't really have that. Even Americans with Native American ancestry don't usually have much of it--most of their ancestors are probably European.

 

Take pity on our rootless people. :)

 

I find this interesting, as your nation is older than mine. How long do you think it will take? Or what would be required?

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I replied a few pages back with a general response, however I am married to an Australian (Tasmania).   I read Deee's post and was sort of not familiar with ethnicity in that way.  I have never ever even heard of 'skip' and so asked dh about it.  He also had never heard of that.  Is this a mainland term?  We have been here (US) 16 years so maybe time has brought new words?  

We visit as often as possible, but we mostly just visit family, so may not have a great idea.   

 

Did someone mention 3rd culture identity?  I heard about this about a year ago, and think that is what we have going on in our family.  I have to look into that. 

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I replied a few pages back with a general response, however I am married to an Australian (Tasmania).   I read Deee's post and was sort of not familiar with ethnicity in that way.  I have never ever even heard of 'skip' and so asked dh about it.  He also had never heard of that.  Is this a mainland term?  We have been here (US) 16 years so maybe time has brought new words?  

We visit as often as possible, but we mostly just visit family, so may not have a great idea.   

 

"Skip" was being used when I was in high school in the 90's. Skip, as in Skippy the Bush Kangaroo.

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I replied a few pages back with a general response, however I am married to an Australian (Tasmania). I read Deee's post and was sort of not familiar with ethnicity in that way. I have never ever even heard of 'skip' and so asked dh about it. He also had never heard of that. Is this a mainland term? We have been here (US) 16 years so maybe time has brought new words?

We visit as often as possible, but we mostly just visit family, so may not have a great idea.

 

Did someone mention 3rd culture identity? I heard about this about a year ago, and think that is what we have going on in our family. I have to look into that.

Skip comes from Skippy the Kangaroo & is a derogatory term for "white Australians" used I'm response to being called "wog" "slanteye" etc. I don't think it was ever reclaimed to the extent that wog was and seems to have pretty much slipped from the vernacular since my childhood in the eighties.

People with southern European heritage will still sometimes proudly call themselves wigs but I haven't heard anyone use skip for a long time.

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I replied a few pages back with a general response, however I am married to an Australian (Tasmania). I read Deee's post and was sort of not familiar with ethnicity in that way. I have never ever even heard of 'skip' and so asked dh about it. He also had never heard of that. Is this a mainland term? We have been here (US) 16 years so maybe time has brought new words?

We visit as often as possible, but we mostly just visit family, so may not have a great idea.

 

Did someone mention 3rd culture identity? I heard about this about a year ago, and think that is what we have going on in our family. I have to look into that.

Skip comes from Skippy the Kangaroo & is a derogatory term for "white Australians" used I'm response to being called "wog" "slanteye" etc. I don't think it was ever reclaimed to the extent that wog was and seems to have pretty much slipped from the vernacular since my childhood in the eighties.

People with southern European heritage will still sometimes proudly call themselves wigs but I haven't heard anyone use skip for a long time.

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Oh I've heard Skip - I can very clearly hear it with a 'wog' accent and another very derogatory term on the end (Shkippy C-word), still it was mostly said in affection, occasionally in aggression.  I admit I haven't heard it around too recently.

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okay, so cleared up the skip bit.  I think we won't worry about adding that to our vocab, but good to know.

 

Now is the currency lads and lasses a new term?  Never heard of that either.  Dh is extremly well read and keeps up with current events daily.. etc..just in case anyone is wondering. LOL

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okay, so cleared up the skip bit.  I think we won't worry about adding that to our vocab, but good to know.

 

Now is the currency lads and lasses a new term?  Never heard of that either.  Dh is extremly well read and keeps up with current events daily.. etc..just in case anyone is wondering. LOL

currency lasses is a very old term. in fact it is so old that it isn't in modern usage much anymore.

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Skip is still used in Sydney, particularly in the very multicultural west. I've never found it to be derogatory, but then, wog isn't really used as an insult here anymore, either. More evidence of the slightly off Aussie sense of humour and our comfort with that wave of immigration. We still have serious issues with racism towards newer arrivals.

 

Someone mentioned finding convicts in their past. It used to be something you covered up, but now its quite fashionable. Needs to be a few generations back, mind you! My mum has convicts in her past. My dad came from Sth Australia (the only state that wasn't a penal colony) and was very proud that there were no convicts in his family.

 

I find the whole "British" thing interesting. All the Scots and Welshmen I've ever met have been adamant that they are Scottish or Welsh, not British. I think some of that is reflected in the Australian identity, too, particularly for those of us of Irish Catholic descent (my family came here because of the famine, so they were probably very bitter). And then there is our national inferiority complex which left us clinging to Mother England. I think we're just about over that, although if we keep losing both the cricket and rugby to the Poms, it may resurface.

D

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To give you an idea of how prevalent the idea of Mother England was in Australia, here is an except from Sir Henry Parkes' Tenterfield Oration, widely thought to be one of the most important steps to Australia becoming a Federation.  He gave the speech in 1889.  White settlement was 100 years old.  It took another 12 years for Australia to become a nation, and arguably, another 50 years for Parkes' dream of a proud Australian identity to be realised.

 

 

Ă¢â‚¬Å“Why should not the name of an Australian citizen be

equal to that of a Briton?.... Why should not the name of

an Australian citizen be equal to that of the proudest

country under the sun?.... But there is something more.

Make yourselves a united people, appear before the

world as one, and the dream of going Ă¢â‚¬â„¢homeĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ would die

awayĂ¢â‚¬Â¦ We should have home within our shores.Ă¢â‚¬

(Henry Parkes speech calling for Federation)

TENTERFIELD ORATION 1889

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I find the whole "British" thing interesting. All the Scots and Welshmen I've ever met have been adamant that they are Scottish or Welsh, not British. I think some of that is reflected in the Australian identity, too, particularly for those of us of Irish Catholic descent (my family came here because of the famine, so they were probably very bitter). 

 

This waxes and wanes with the various political/devolutionary arguments.  Currently, in Scotland (in the run-up to a referendum on Scottish Independence) 60% consider themselves Scottish only, whilst 18% see themselves as Scottish and British. I think that people with a more recent history of immigration to the UK tend to self-identify as British first (or only).  And I, resident in Scotland, would call myself English and British.

 

Ireland is different of course: most Irish Catholics in the diaspora are likely to have come from Ireland when it was part of Britain, but their ancestral homes are now in Eire.  I don't know if that is the case for your background.

 

L

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