9 year old and sharing - help!

[AimeeM]

Thanks guys.

I'm going to have her set aside, in my bedroom, her personal belongings, and she can have access to them whenever she wants (assuming she is done with her work), and play with them privately in that room.

[Catwoman]

Personally, I think your 12yo had the right idea. She was defending her brother because it appeared that you weren't doing what needed to be done.

 

Why would you allow that child to share your 4yo's toys if she won't share her toys with him? :confused: Why aren't you insisting on fairness?

 

I don't understand your lack of action. Why would you tolerate that girl treating your ds so poorly? He's only 4 years old. He needs you to step in and defend him (and his right to play with his own toys.)

 

And why would a 9yo girl want to play with a 4yo boy's toys, anyway? Are you sure she's not just teasing him and being kind of mean to him when she insists on playing with his toys and keeping them away from him?

[Miss Tick]

I might start by speaking directly to the girl. Something like, "in our house, if you don't want to share a toy it needs to be put away." Then designate a place out of sight until it is time for her to go home - or she is ready to share, of course.

 

I might save talking to the mom for if you need escalation or feel the need to explain the situation.

[zoobie]

I don't know. She's out of her element... Maybe some rules about when and where? 4 year old's room should be his safe spot, but does she have one? If she wants to play with her things, she may in her quiet spot. If she wants to play with her stuff in a shared space, she has to share the toys too.

 

I was dumped on neighbors after school until I was old enough to stay by myself, and it sucked feeling like an outsider with nothing of my own. I'm an only child and introvert. I tried to hide in a corner and escape in a book as much as possible. Anyway, I get that your 4 year old shouldn't be dumped on, but I can empathize with the "outsider" too. I'd try to find rules to carve out space for both.

[gardenmom5]

I agree your dd has the right idea.  if she wants your son to share his toys with her - she HAS to share hers with him.    I also see nothing wrong with putting a toy that won't be shared up high - even if it is hers.

you can tell her mother you don't want her bringing toys over, but that's treating a symptom.

[bolt.]

Are the 9yo's toys unsuitable for a 4yo? Or is she just possessive?

 

I totally understand not wanting to squelch the 4yo's willingness to share (that's great), but then the only way to make it fair is to insist that the 9yo also share -- which can be tough when that isn't your child, and those items do not belong to your family.

 

Perhaps greet her each time, asking her if she has brought any toys for herself and/or any for sharing. Place her toys "for herself" into a basket that she can play with, away from this little 4yo -- and so that he doesn't see them and want them. Make some fairly concrete rules about this.

 

Then teach fair play with the "toys for everyone" that are primarily your 4yo's belongings. Supervise, give concrete instructions, make rules and procedures. Then begin to step away for brief times, to extend her willingness to comply when you will 'be right back'. I do not actually consider these toys "his" because you have agreed to care for this 9yo, and full access to household toys is a reasonable expectation of that care scenario. In a sense, when you agreed to care for the girl (presumably for money?) you 'sold' access to his toys, even if he didn't know that.

 

(If someone was babysitting my child on an ongoing basis, I would be shocked to find out that the caregiver was using the model of, "My kids can share if they want to, but her access to toys in my home is governed by their wishes." I'd assume that only special things would be off limits / permission basis. I wouldn't be comfortable with my child being cared for in a home where she constantly had to ask permission of other children to play with anything. Even if the answer was always, "Yes" from the other child, I'd be really bugged by the dynamic of owning-and-sharing, rather than free play being included/assumed in the care agreement.)

[AimeeM]

Personally, I think your 12yo had the right idea. She was defending her brother because it appeared that you weren't doing what needed to be done.

 

Why would you allow that child to share your 4yo's toys if she won't share her toys with him? :confused: Why aren't you insisting on fairness?

 

I don't understand your lack of action. Why would you tolerate that girl treating your ds so poorly? He's only 4 years old. He needs you to step in and defend him (and his right to play with his own toys.)

 

And why would a 9yo girl want to play with a 4yo boy's toys, anyway? Are you sure she's not just teasing him and being kind of mean to him when she insists on playing with his toys and keeping them away from him?

 

 

And she enjoys playing with the legos and blocks; somewhat age-less toys that even my 12 year old enjoys from time to time (the nice archiquest/architecture blocks). She does also seem to sincerely enjoy playing with the younger toys and books too, but that could just be her personality. She doesn't appear to taunting him with it.

Edited to delete personal details. Let's just say that she's having a rough time right now, some things going on at home.

[AimeeM]

.

Are the 9yo's toys unsuitable for a 4yo? Or is she just possessive?

 

I totally understand not wanting to squelch the 4yo's willingness to share (that's great), but then the only way to make it fair is to insist that the 9yo also share -- which can be tough when that isn't your child, and those items do not belong to your family.

 

Perhaps greet her each time, asking her if she has brought any toys for herself and/or any for sharing. Place her toys "for herself" into a basket that she can play with, away from this little 4yo -- and so that he doesn't see them and want them. Make some fairly concrete rules about this.

 

Then teach fair play with the "toys for everyone" that are primarily your 4yo's belongings. Supervise, give concrete instructions, make rules and procedures. Then begin to step away for brief times, to extend her willingness to comply when you will 'be right back'. I do not actually consider these toys "his" because you have agreed to care for this 9yo, and full access to household toys is a reasonable expectation of that care scenario. In a sense, when you agreed to care for the girl (presumably for money?) you 'sold' access to his toys, even if he didn't know that.

 

(If someone was babysitting my child on an ongoing basis, I would be shocked to find out that the caregiver was using the model of, "My kids can share if they want to, but her access to toys in my home is governed by their wishes." I'd assume that only special things would be off limits / permission basis. I wouldn't be comfortable with my child being cared for in a home where she constantly had to ask permission of other children to play with anything. Even if the answer was always, "Yes" from the other child, I'd be really bugged by the dynamic of owning-and-sharing, rather than free play being included/assumed in the care agreement.)

 

[bolt.]

So she probably doesn't view "playing with household toys" as "the 4yo is sharing with me" -- nor should she. So, I guess it makes sense that she is using her public/group play social skills (including blocking/hoarding). It also makes sense that she doesn't sense any "reciprocal" need to share the belongings she brought with her. She views you home in the category of 'a place with toys that I go to, and there are other kids there' -- that's not usually an environment where you are expected to share 'things from home' with anyone who asks, so her behaviour is entirely normal. (If a child brings a 'home toy' to a daycare, school, library or public pool -- no one expects him/her to engage in mandatory sharing... especially not with preschoolers.)

 

I think you are getting good suggestions, but it's important to put yourself in her shoes. Her treatment of 'household' toys is normal. She doesn't give priority to your son because she thinks she is in a equal-access place, not in a owning-and-sharing place. However, she still believes she owns her own things from home, because going to an equal-access place doesn't usually change that.

[Chris in VA]

I agree with Cat, but also I understand some the idea of her having her own space.

 

In preschool, we'd set a timer, and emphasize taking turns, instead of sharing. Sharing implies having access when you want, on demand, even if someone isn't ready to give the toy up yet. Taking turns implies waiting until the other person is ready--it places the burden on the one who wants the toy instead of on the person who has the toy currently. The timer guarantees (or, makes easier) that process is fair--so someone doesn't have to give up the toy right away, and someone doesn't have to wait forever.

 

I would limit the toys she wants to bring over to toys she can share, with maybe two or three things she is not required to share but must play with out of sight of your 4yo.

 

And maybe it's time to use more of the time in something everyone can do, like a fun art experience or some activity? 

[AimeeM]

So she probably doesn't view "playing with household toys" as "the 4yo is sharing with me" -- nor should she. So, I guess it makes sense that she is using her public/group play social skills (including blocking/hoarding). It also makes sense that she doesn't sense any "reciprocal" need to share the belongings she brought with her. She views you home in the category of 'a place with toys that I go to, and there are other kids there' -- that's not usually an environment where you are expected to share 'things from home' with anyone who asks, so her behaviour is entirely normal. (If a child brings a 'home toy' to a daycare, school, library or public pool -- no one expects him/her to engage in mandatory sharing... especially not with preschoolers.)

 

I think you are getting good suggestions, but it's important to put yourself in her shoes. Her treatment of 'household' toys is normal. She doesn't give priority to your son because she thinks she is in a equal-access place, not in a owning-and-sharing place. However, she still believes she owns her own things from home, because going to an equal-access place doesn't usually change that.

 

I think the childcare situation in general is new to me, lol. I hadn't originally intended this to evolve much past tutor/school work supervision, but it did and I'm happy with that - I just need to work at it. The girl is darling and a hardworker.

[AimeeM]

Here's what I think I'm a bit confused about. In a normal childcare situation, are the children really allowed full access to all areas of the house? If so, perhaps I need to rethink this. My eldest's room is off limits, and my 4 year old's room is where the drama is happening, as that is where all the toys are; is it really status quo that she has access to the private bedrooms and everything in there? Would it be okay to bring the toys out to the common area and that is where they can play, and what they can play with; if my son needs space, he can go in his room; if she needs space, she can go in my room - but right now my 4 year old has no space of his own, as she generally follows him in there.

[bolt.]

Here's what I think I'm a bit confused about. In a normal childcare situation, are the children really allowed full access to all areas of the house? If so, perhaps I need to rethink this. My eldest's room is off limits, and my 4 year old's room is where the drama is happening, as that is where all the toys are; is it really status quo that she has access to the private bedrooms and everything in there? Would it be okay to bring the toys out to the common area and that is where they can play, and what they can play with; if my son needs space, he can go in his room; if she needs space, she can go in my room - but right now my 4 year old has no space of his own, as she generally follows him in there.

It's not an expectation that all rooms would be accessible, only that a play space, equipped with toys/etc would be available to her during free time -- and her free range / off limits areas should be clear. I don't think she should be following your 4yo into his room... So it makes sense to bring toys out. Not "everything" needs to be available, but it should be a reasonable selection for the amount of time she is expected to be playing.

[zoobie]

Here's what I think I'm a bit confused about. In a normal childcare situation, are the children really allowed full access to all areas of the house? If so, perhaps I need to rethink this. My eldest's room is off limits, and my 4 year old's room is where the drama is happening, as that is where all the toys are; is it really status quo that she has access to the private bedrooms and everything in there? Would it be okay to bring the toys out to the common area and that is where they can play, and what they can play with; if my son needs space, he can go in his room; if she needs space, she can go in my room - but right now my 4 year old has no space of his own, as she generally follows him in there.

Absolutely! :)

[Catwoman]

Here's what I think I'm a bit confused about. In a normal childcare situation, are the children really allowed full access to all areas of the house? If so, perhaps I need to rethink this. My eldest's room is off limits, and my 4 year old's room is where the drama is happening, as that is where all the toys are; is it really status quo that she has access to the private bedrooms and everything in there? Would it be okay to bring the toys out to the common area and that is where they can play, and what they can play with; if my son needs space, he can go in his room; if she needs space, she can go in my room - but right now my 4 year old has no space of his own, as she generally follows him in there.

I think you've come up with an excellent solution -- a common play space, and the kids' bedrooms are off-limits. :)

[AimeeM]

So... what do I keep in the common space, toy-wise? The blocks that she enjoys (and hoards) are my son's most treasured possessions.

Please be gentle with me. This evolved from a tutoring and school work supervision situation, where she happened to come early in the morning and I was assured she would want to simply rest, into 10 hours a day of tutoring and childcare. The tutoring I was well prepared for, the child care, not so much (not that I mind it, sincerely, but I wasn't prepared for it).