Student or Parent doing the legwork for college?

[Kareni]

What does "slac" mean?  sorry, i'm a newbie...

 

LAC is an abbreviation that typically means liberal arts college;  I'm guessing that SLAC is a selective liberal arts college.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Julie in MN]

I am glad you all have posted this information.  Do the outside scholarships reduce the federal aid or does the college reduce the entire aid package (merit and need-based)?

 

Well for us, during my son's first year, his out-of-state tuition was high enough that his outside scholarships only bumped out his "school grants" (which were needs-based but also seemed to be based on merit, because they seemed to give the max in "school grants" as well as "school scholarships" to higher merit students, so I can't be totally sure of all the wording). 

 

In later years, I wasn't really involved in paying for anything.  It's possible that the "school scholarships" part stayed in place even with outside scholarships, I'd have to ask him.

 

He went to Colorado School of Mines.

Julie

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Okay, wow, just now getting back to this...

 

A HUGE thank you to all you veterans out there who are willing to take the time to pass along your experiences.  I am so grateful!

 

I guess I should expound on my son's decision about USNA since it appears to have gotten a few off track from my original question.  He heard on the news that some top-level officials were removed from duty for their role in trying to help the victims in Benghazi.  They were violating orders, so they were removed (at least from what he heard).  He asked me, "What would I do if I was an officer in a situation like that where I would have to decide between my moral values and the orders of my superiors?  I would lose my job.  How would I take care of my family?"

 

I thought that was a mature line of thinking for a then 15 yo.  However, I explained to him that any of us can have a moral dilemma in ANY line of work.  One could lose a job in the private or public sector.  This has nothing to do with political parties or who's in the white house.  *sigh*

 

To Teachin'mine....not sure what you mean by "stirring the pot"...unless you are assuming his rationale about USNA is some kind of political statement, which would be an unfortunate misunderstanding.    I posted originally because I really need insight from other parents who have already walked this road.  I'm a newbie at this college application/scholarship search process; and I'm not sure how much to expect from our students when they have heavy academic loads while trying to do the college thing, too.

 

Again, a big thanks to all of you who have posted information.  It is helpful to those of us who are just beginning this leg of the journey!

 

If I had a candidate ask a question along the lines of what your son asked, I would say that it is incredibly important that the military have officers who are willing to do the right thing, even at a personal cost. And I would also point out that there are many professional fields where someone might be asked to choose between their integrity and their continued employment.

 

I've been in and around the military as a midshipman, active duty officer, reserve officer and military wife. The vast majority of people I've served with are people I deeply respect and look up to. Certainly there were and are men and women whom I trusted with my life and now with my husband's life. But also, there are people that I thought fell short of the mark. Most of these were either overwhelmed or burned out. A few were just not honorable people. But on the whole, there are faster and more severe consequences for those who are not trustworthy than I think many other professions have.

 

But I would also point to that candidate that it can be a problem to rely on speculation for news about the military. For example, the admiral that some sites listed as having been relieved for actions related to Bengazi had some rather different issues. Another flag officer whose name comes up as relieved over the Bengazi attack actually continued to serve in his position until April 2013, completing a 2 year tour. (It is not at all unusual for someone to be named as a replacement, well before the actual change of command. In fact in some billets, the training pipeline is so long that a replacement has been tapped before the person they are replacing actually takes the job. This is unusual - attaché billets with language training requirements and carrier COs come to mind. Being named a year before actually taking command is not far fetched.)

 

I would never insist that someone should attend a service academy or join the military at all. It is a demanding profession that does definitely mold the future person. But I would also suggest that an interested student listen to a wide range of experiences in the military before making that decision. It's also important to weigh each advisor's background and experience.

 

[For context, I am a USNA graduate, I served on two ships, and I now volunteer as a Blue and Gold Officer for USNA.  Obviously, my opinions are only my own.]

[kiana]

LAC is an abbreviation that typically means liberal arts college;  I'm guessing that SLAC is a selective liberal arts college.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Usually means Small LAC.

[Kareni]

Usually means Small LAC.

 

Ah, thank you for clarifying!  I'd known LAC ....

 

Regards,

Kareni

[openmind421]

If I had a candidate ask a question along the lines of what your son asked, I would say that it is incredibly important that the military have officers who are willing to do the right thing, even at a personal cost. And I would also point out that there are many professional fields where someone might be asked to choose between their integrity and their continued employment.

 

I've been in and around the military as a midshipman, active duty officer, reserve officer and military wife. The vast majority of people I've served with are people I deeply respect and look up to. Certainly there were and are men and women whom I trusted with my life and now with my husband's life. But also, there are people that I thought fell short of the mark. Most of these were either overwhelmed or burned out. A few were just not honorable people. But on the whole, there are faster and more severe consequences for those who are not trustworthy than I think many other professions have.

 

But I would also point to that candidate that it can be a problem to rely on speculation for news about the military. For example, the admiral that some sites listed as having been relieved for actions related to Bengazi had some rather different issues. Another flag officer whose name comes up as relieved over the Bengazi attack actually continued to serve in his position until April 2013, completing a 2 year tour. (It is not at all unusual for someone to be named as a replacement, well before the actual change of command. In fact in some billets, the training pipeline is so long that a replacement has been tapped before the person they are replacing actually takes the job. This is unusual - attaché billets with language training requirements and carrier COs come to mind. Being named a year before actually taking command is not far fetched.)

 

I would never insist that someone should attend a service academy or join the military at all. It is a demanding profession that does definitely mold the future person. But I would also suggest that an interested student listen to a wide range of experiences in the military before making that decision. It's also important to weigh each advisor's background and experience.

 

[For context, I am a USNA graduate, I served on two ships, and I now volunteer as a Blue and Gold Officer for USNA.  Obviously, my opinions are only my own.]

 

Yes, you are right....we often don't know the whole story.  Thanks for posting your experiences.

[Storm Bay]

Exactly my experience.  Not generally worthwhile.  And if you have any sort of savings as a student they put their paws all over that too.  I did save up some money.  Instead of looking at that as money I could have used to live on and pay for everyday expenses they saw it as less money in aid they'd give me.  So I ended up with zero dollars in the bank and spent a semester without any money for anything (had no way to get to a job of any kind).  I had the dorm room and the meal plan.  Books were covered.  That was it.  Not fun.  It's why I ended up switching state schools, moving back home, and getting many jobs. 

 

Right. The best kind are the merit scholarships from the school that are given regardless of your income, etc. We didn't even have to fill out the FAFSA. This worked well for us because dh is self-employed & had his best year ever the year that mattered, and is back to normal income this year.

[*LC]

 

My daughter's college required that all outside scholarships be divulged to them.  I would be pleasantly surprised to find out that Amherst does not have the same requirement.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

My daughter doesn't go to Amherst, so I don't know about their requirements. I know she keeps in contact with others from the conference, so I will ask what happened with the Amherst student when I see my daughter at Thanksgiving.

 

I saw this article today about kids graduating college with scholarship money in the bank, so I guess it does happen sometimes.

 

finance.yahoo.com/news/graduated-college-thousands-dollars-left-113200394.html

[Barbara H]

It is important to understand though, the more common policy is that out the outside private scholarships are deducted from grant aid the student would receive from the university.

 

It is true there are students who are "cut a check" or more commonly today - given a direct deposit by the university. That happens most often at some of the top merit offer programs mentioned in the article such as Oklahoma and University of Central Florida. The total amount received by the student still needs to be within the budget that the university calculates for them though. That budget includes not just tuition, fees, room and board - but typically includes other costs such as books and transportation. So, technically yes the student is getting a payment from the university and for some who are careful about costs that is enough to come out ahead. But, realistically most people should not go in expecting to come out way ahead.

 

Editing to add: Students should also understand the part of scholarships that are not for tuition, fees, and books is generally taxable. In other words, expect to pay taxes on room, board, and living expenses scholarships.

[Kareni]

Editing to add: Students should also understand the part of scholarships that are not for tuition, fees, and books is generally taxable. In other words, expect to pay taxes on room, board, and living expenses scholarships.

 

Yes, this is true.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

[Elisabet1]

Wish I could help. I am surfing in your territory. My daughter tells me to make lists for her of what to do. Then she doesn't even do what is on the lists. Then she turns around and within a week tells me she needs a new list. Then she says the new list isn't complete because I didn't put the stuff from the old list on there. She also refuses to tell me what she has completed, so I don't even know what do put on the new list. I am sick of it. Her dad heard us fighting yesterday and her informing me that I have to type the list up, make sure it is up to date by signing in to all her accounts, including her email accounts, to figure out for myself what she has done (which is rarely anything), and then email her the list rather than writing the list. I told her I was not doing that for her, she could just get a job and skip going to college. That I could not imagine that anyone who has the arrogance to demand that of her mother could handle college anyway. She also informed me that because I wrote her list on the front and back of a sheet of paper, she could not do anything from the backside because she should not have to turn the page over. AND, because that list was a week old, even though she has hardly done anything from the list, she cannot use the list anymore and I need to resubmit a list to her. Oh, and that I need to include links, not just to where she signs in, but to the actual essays she has to write, not just to the page that tells her she has to write the essays. Yeah, she had the nerve to throw a tantrum and demand that.

 

My ONLY incentive to help her is out of fear that she will still be living here next year. I think that is horrible to say, but true. I used to be disgusted with people who would tell me how they needed their teens to move on. But, we really are there. She thinks I am her slave to stomp on. She demanded that I skip taking her little brother to his Nutcracker practice so that I could stay home and work for her, do her college apps, make her lists, etc. I told her when she does not go to college, which at this rate, she won't be, she will be required to work fulltime and pay her own bills. IF she lives here, she will be paying rent. Her free ride ends on graduation day (she will already be 18 then). 

 

Ok, sorry, I vented. But, I have stepped back. It started with "help me find scholarships" and this is where we are now. She is a senior this year.

[openmind421]

Exactly my experience.  Not generally worthwhile.  And if you have any sort of savings as a student they put their paws all over that too.  I did save up some money.  Instead of looking at that as money I could have used to live on and pay for everyday expenses they saw it as less money in aid they'd give me.  So I ended up with zero dollars in the bank and spent a semester without any money for anything (had no way to get to a job of any kind).  I had the dorm room and the meal plan.  Books were covered.  That was it.  Not fun.  It's why I ended up switching state schools, moving back home, and getting many jobs. 

 

In terms of savings, then, would a jointly-held savings acct. (the child is the minor and a parent is the main account holder) be considered a parent's asset or the child's asset (on the FAFSA).

 

*sigh* I don't know how people do this without drowning in debt, which is something I refuse to do....

[Vida Winter]

We were lucky since our kids all seem to know exactly where they want to go and what they want to do. It's only a matter of making sure they meet the requirements for those schools; even then there are decisions to be made and many deadlines to meet regarding scholarships and testing.

 

I would look at it as a two-step process - first, with your son, come up with a short list of schools including a safety. Dream big but narrow it down to five or so, give or take a couple. This is the fun part. You may decide to add or drop a school later on but this is where you start.

 

Second, delve deeply into application requirements, testing, and scholarship opportunities for each school. Create a master spreadsheet with highlighted deadlines. You will probably have more time to do this than your son - it is really a part time job. Take a stab at it and discuss it with him each week. Once you get into this phase he may decide that some requirements are too onerous and drop that school off the list. For instance my older dd balked at taking three SAT2's for a particular school and dropped it from consideration; another dd wants to attend that school so she is planning on taking the SAT2's.

 

I look at it as a joint effort, especially as a home educator, since we got them into this odd situation in the first place (homeschooling, I mean). Your dc will be treated differently than ps kids who apply and you need to make sure they have all the additional paperwork and testing that will be required. Then, work with him to make sure his schedule allows time for him to complete applications, write scholarship essays, take required tests, visit the schools, etc., and keep checking and updating that spreadsheet.

 

It's not like when we went to school --- it's a lot more complicated now. I barely did anything to apply to my college (took the SAT once and filled out an application), and my parents had no involvement at all.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Wish I could help. I am surfing in your territory. My daughter tells me to make lists for her of what to do. Then she doesn't even do what is on the lists. Then she turns around and within a week tells me she needs a new list. Then she says the new list isn't complete because I didn't put the stuff from the old list on there. She also refuses to tell me what she has completed, so I don't even know what do put on the new list. I am sick of it. Her dad heard us fighting yesterday and her informing me that I have to type the list up, make sure it is up to date by signing in to all her accounts, including her email accounts, to figure out for myself what she has done (which is rarely anything), and then email her the list rather than writing the list. I told her I was not doing that for her, she could just get a job and skip going to college. That I could not imagine that anyone who has the arrogance to demand that of her mother could handle college anyway. She also informed me that because I wrote her list on the front and back of a sheet of paper, she could not do anything from the backside because she should not have to turn the page over. AND, because that list was a week old, even though she has hardly done anything from the list, she cannot use the list anymore and I need to resubmit a list to her. Oh, and that I need to include links, not just to where she signs in, but to the actual essays she has to write, not just to the page that tells her she has to write the essays. Yeah, she had the nerve to throw a tantrum and demand that.

 

My ONLY incentive to help her is out of fear that she will still be living here next year. I think that is horrible to say, but true. I used to be disgusted with people who would tell me how they needed their teens to move on. But, we really are there. She thinks I am her slave to stomp on. She demanded that I skip taking her little brother to his Nutcracker practice so that I could stay home and work for her, do her college apps, make her lists, etc. I told her when she does not go to college, which at this rate, she won't be, she will be required to work fulltime and pay her own bills. IF she lives here, she will be paying rent. Her free ride ends on graduation day (she will already be 18 then). 

 

Ok, sorry, I vented. But, I have stepped back. It started with "help me find scholarships" and this is where we are now. She is a senior this year.

 

Yeah, that sounds worthy of a vent.

 

I think that big projects with large consequences can seem overwhelming to teens. But an unwillingness to take ownership of at least some of the process would be an indication (to me at least) that the student isn't ready for college yet. 

 

College involves research into degree requirements and course offerings so that you complete required coursework to graduate on time, following a syllabus so that you come to class prepared and submit assignments on time, analyzing the pros and cons of dining plans so that you don't starve at the end of the semester, not to mention time management skills so that the work actually gets done.

 

I try not to be insensitive to the paralysis that can come from a major project deadline. But refusing to use a list because you printed on the back strikes me as unrealistic and not worthy of an almost adult.

[creekland]

Wish I could help. I am surfing in your territory. My daughter tells me to make lists for her of what to do. Then she doesn't even do what is on the lists. Then she turns around and within a week tells me she needs a new list. Then she says the new list isn't complete because I didn't put the stuff from the old list on there. She also refuses to tell me what she has completed, so I don't even know what do put on the new list. I am sick of it. Her dad heard us fighting yesterday and her informing me that I have to type the list up, make sure it is up to date by signing in to all her accounts, including her email accounts, to figure out for myself what she has done (which is rarely anything), and then email her the list rather than writing the list. I told her I was not doing that for her, she could just get a job and skip going to college. That I could not imagine that anyone who has the arrogance to demand that of her mother could handle college anyway. She also informed me that because I wrote her list on the front and back of a sheet of paper, she could not do anything from the backside because she should not have to turn the page over. AND, because that list was a week old, even though she has hardly done anything from the list, she cannot use the list anymore and I need to resubmit a list to her. Oh, and that I need to include links, not just to where she signs in, but to the actual essays she has to write, not just to the page that tells her she has to write the essays. Yeah, she had the nerve to throw a tantrum and demand that.

 

My ONLY incentive to help her is out of fear that she will still be living here next year. I think that is horrible to say, but true. I used to be disgusted with people who would tell me how they needed their teens to move on. But, we really are there. She thinks I am her slave to stomp on. She demanded that I skip taking her little brother to his Nutcracker practice so that I could stay home and work for her, do her college apps, make her lists, etc. I told her when she does not go to college, which at this rate, she won't be, she will be required to work fulltime and pay her own bills. IF she lives here, she will be paying rent. Her free ride ends on graduation day (she will already be 18 then). 

 

Ok, sorry, I vented. But, I have stepped back. It started with "help me find scholarships" and this is where we are now. She is a senior this year.

I'm with Sebastian... if this were my child they'd need to either step up to the plate themselves (perhaps providing a basic list, but nothing like you're talking about) or they'd be doing a combo of cc and/or work.  At that point maybe they would decide they are interested in college.  If not, so be it.

 

I'm all for reminding my guy as he has a bunch of stuff on his plate right now, but there are limits.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Wish I could help. I am surfing in your territory. My daughter tells me to make lists for her of what to do. Then she doesn't even do what is on the lists. Then she turns around and within a week tells me she needs a new list. Then she says the new list isn't complete because I didn't put the stuff from the old list on there. She also refuses to tell me what she has completed, so I don't even know what do put on the new list. I am sick of it. Her dad heard us fighting yesterday and her informing me that I have to type the list up, make sure it is up to date by signing in to all her accounts, including her email accounts, to figure out for myself what she has done (which is rarely anything), and then email her the list rather than writing the list. I told her I was not doing that for her, she could just get a job and skip going to college. That I could not imagine that anyone who has the arrogance to demand that of her mother could handle college anyway. She also informed me that because I wrote her list on the front and back of a sheet of paper, she could not do anything from the backside because she should not have to turn the page over. AND, because that list was a week old, even though she has hardly done anything from the list, she cannot use the list anymore and I need to resubmit a list to her. Oh, and that I need to include links, not just to where she signs in, but to the actual essays she has to write, not just to the page that tells her she has to write the essays. Yeah, she had the nerve to throw a tantrum and demand that.

 

My ONLY incentive to help her is out of fear that she will still be living here next year. I think that is horrible to say, but true. I used to be disgusted with people who would tell me how they needed their teens to move on. But, we really are there. She thinks I am her slave to stomp on. She demanded that I skip taking her little brother to his Nutcracker practice so that I could stay home and work for her, do her college apps, make her lists, etc. I told her when she does not go to college, which at this rate, she won't be, she will be required to work fulltime and pay her own bills. IF she lives here, she will be paying rent. Her free ride ends on graduation day (she will already be 18 then). 

 

Ok, sorry, I vented. But, I have stepped back. It started with "help me find scholarships" and this is where we are now. She is a senior this year.

 

One other thought is that perhaps it would be good for both of you if she had guidance from someone else.

 

My oldest son recently earned his Eagle Scout rank in Boy Scouts. One of the best things that our troop does is have a permanent Eagle Advisor. This is someone who is very familiar with the process who can help the scout to refine his plan, complete the project AND do all of the required paperwork. The bonus is that the Eagle Advisor is not one of the parents of the scout, so the parents are able to stay in the role of encouraging cheerleader rather than nag or constructive critic.

 

It sounds like it might be good if there was someone else your dd could report status to other than you.

[Elisabet1]

I should back up about my daughter too. She had home schooled. Then, when her first period came, she became an angry difficult person. She refused to do her work. She would throw her books. I had a brand new Jacob's Geometry book from Rainbow Resource and she got angry and picked it up and threw it as hard as she could against the wall damaging the book. I took her to a psychologist who said she was fine. The idea we had going at the time was that she had horrid PMS. But she also has a fair number of younger siblings. I was pregnant at the time too. She said she would be happy if she just went back to public school. We sent her to the local public school, which was actually a nightmare. Legitimately, the boys were openly sexually harassing and touching the girls. They were making videos about it and posting about it online. My daughter was one getting attacked. I sent copies of the videos and posts to administration so they punished her for complaining. This was after trying to get the school to do something multiple times. We pulled her out and sent her to private school. The private school was fine, but she complained all the time. It was very small, and a home study program sort of. She went there part time and stayed home the rest. The next year, she got in to a charter school. She hated them too. I made her stick it out for the year. But at the end of the year, they cancelled the program she was in and changed everything. So we had to go elsewhere. I went back to the district and offered to not take the videos and online screen shots to the courts and sue them if they gave us an indistrict transfer to a school elsewhere. They agreed. The school on the other side is way way better. Ironically, people fall all over themselves to be on our side because our side is the wealthier side, so people assume better. Not! Anyway, at the new school, she did have 2 teachers to start with who made comments about home schoolers and being mad they were stuck with her and seemed to take it out on her grades and such. But outside of that, everything has been great. I finally told her mid year last year (that was 11th grade, she has been there since 10th) that she was out of line to complain. I got angry with her and told her this was on her, there was nothing wrong there, and not to complain to me anymore. Honestly, if anything real happened at this school, I would not know because she has complained so much that she has become the girl who cried wolf. Obviously the stuff at the first school was real. But, her continued complaining will lead to her never being taken seriously. 

 

She is a top student despite the drop in grades the first term there. She is in top 10%, 2100 SAT, 216 PSAT, great of ECs and great recommendations, and in 5 honor societies. But, she also has this attitude that she will only go to that one perfect school. And if she does not get in there, she will not go at all.

[Storm Bay]

 

 

Editing to add: Students should also understand the part of scholarships that are not for tuition, fees, and books is generally taxable. In other words, expect to pay taxes on room, board, and living expenses scholarships.

 

Yes, so true. In our case it really means we're just paying for part of it since it's a state scholarship, so we're going to have to pay them money for the money they gave us, plus to the federal government.

[katilac]

So how is he handling things now in college? Juggling his schedule, work load, deadlines, electronic assignment systems, etc?

The applications are certainly a pain in the neck, but not more complex than actually being a college student.

I am not being snarky, just curious.

 

I'm not so sure about that! There's something about bureaucratic paperwork that hurts the brain and kills the soul in a way that the hardest school assignment can never match.