At what age do you feel kids should take responsibility for their work?

[Halcyon]

By this I mean, get their work done, be their own motivator, not ask "Am I done yet?" of their teacher (because only they know when they are done, and have done a truly good job). I remember being in 5th or 6th grade and not coming down for dinner because I hadn't written out my math answers to my own satisfaction. I remember not going out to the movies with friends because I wasn't satisfied with a paper I was writing in 6th grade and felt I need to redo it. 

 

Does this happen naturally at a certain age? Did I get to this stage younger than most (and therefore expecting too much out of my kids)? At what age do  you feel kids should be taking ownership of their studies, and actually caring about how well work is done?

[Catwoman]

You definitely got to that stage younger than I did, but I don't know if I'm typical or if you are. ;) Truthfully, I just turned 50 and I'm not entirely sure I'm there yet, unless the subject is particularly interesting to me. :D

 

Personally, I think it's a personality thing more than an issue of age. Some kids take a lot of pride in a job well done and will work very hard to achieve perfection, while others will probably always have more of a "git 'er done" approach toward their schoolwork. I don't think you can make them care. You can insist that they do a thorough job or that they finish their work on time, and you can hope that they start wanting to do a good job for the sake of doing their very best, but I don't think you can force or teach that trait.

 

I think the best thing you can do is to try to model a good example for your children, and to try to teach them good habits.

[Tress]

:bigear:

[SilverMoon]

In my house that's controlled by personality and barely has anything to do with age.

[quark]

In my house that's controlled by personality and barely has anything to do with age.

 

And if I may add, how meaningful the work is to the child.

 

[Soror]

Well, I am sure it was gradeschool for me as I am a type A perfectionist. According to what dh has told me I don't think he reached that point until after hs graduation! He wishes now his parents had made him work harder and expected more from him, as pretty much their only expectation was that he didn't fail. So I vote for personality as well!

[Chris in VA]

Son 1--High school

Son 2--??

Daughter--depends on the subject.

 

So, maybe it does depend on the personality, the subject, the age? 

[Madeline05]

I agree with other posters. It's mostly personality that dictates what kind of work ethic a child has and therefor there self accountability. I think by the Middle School years children should be fairly proficient in knowing what they need to do, and learning how to time manage effectively, and learning that they are accountable for their work. (Completeness, no sloppy work, and no tardiness on assignments)

 

I'd imagine this kind of behavior could be found in younger children (late Elementary School years), but they should be allowed some leeway as far as reminders and a little bit of assistance on keeping on top of things.

[MIch elle]

Middle school OR high school depending on the maturity of the dc. Yes, some can do it earlier, but I wouldn't expect it sooner than middle school.

[4peanuts]

I'm not sure if this speaks entirely to your question, but I have been giving my currently 8 and 9 year old practice working from checklists since they were able to read independently. Not for all their work, of course, but just for activities they are capable of completing on their own. It's not exactly the kind of pride in work that you talked about doing with your English, math, etc., but I am hoping it is a start in that direction...at least laying the foundation for independent learning.

 

I specify a set time they have to finish everything on the list. Usually they can complete the tasks in any order they choose, including the choice to take short breaks or work straight through and finish early with free time at the end. As far as self-policing quality, they know they will have to redo or correct incomplete/messy/careless work.

[abba12]

For me it was 6th grade

 

My mum expected a lot of us though, and we worked to her expectations. But it didn't always come naturally, we had to be taught and guided, and the independence began in K. Things like letting a 3rd grader do math independently, allowing a 1st grader to be responsible for their own books, all of that was important in achieving a responsible independence earlier IMO,

[HRAAB]

For my middle dd, it happened when she started 9th grade.  It seemed fairly sudden to me - like overnight - although I'm sure it was more gradual.  I rarely ever have to remind her to do anything.  

 

If only she were as responsible about cleaning her room, it would be just about perfect, or as perfect as it gets with a 16 yr old girl.

[Farrar]

I think there's an age where you can expect things will be finished without undue reminders. I don't think the kind of pride and perfectionism is something you can expect across the board at any particular age. Some kids have it naturally, some have it about some work but not all, and others don't get that until adulthood. It's something that, of course, we want to build kids toward, but is, as everyone is saying, much more about personality than developmental milestones.

[duckens]

 

By this I mean, get their work done, be their own motivator, not ask "Am I done yet?" of their teacher (because only they know when they are done, and have done a truly good job).

 

I'm sure personality is a part of this.

 

When I read the original post, my thoughts are, "It depends upon the level of work, and the child's familiarity with that type of assignment."

 

For example:

Older dd is 6.  There are some things I can simply assign her to do:

--Do three more pages in Explode the Code, and you are done for the day.  (She is in Book 3.5, so the format is very familiar to her).

--Do Xtra Math online.  (I set up the computer for her with a 20 minute timer.  She knows what to do when she gets to it.

--Do 20 minutes of typing.  (Same thing).

--Finish this page in Cursive; then come and find me (after going over the formation of the new letters/words).

 

All of the above, I would consider to be things that First Graders in public school would be set loose to do on their own after minimal instruction.

 

Other subjects need more guidance.  Some because they are new; others because the format of what we are doing changes from day to day.

 

--Today in Dinosaurs, dd6 wrote a list of Ceratopsians for her Dinosaur notebook.  I spelled them all for her.  Anything beyond 6 letters, I complete the word.

--New this year, we are working through a book on Comprehension.  We have only done this a few weeks, and she is still getting the hang of it.  Part of this is that she has normal 1st grade reading skills.  She kept misreading "weather" in today's passage.

--History: a variety of readings from several different books, copywork, online activities, and art projects.  I would not expect her to navigate her way through this on her own.

--Science: same thing.

 

Ten years from now, if we are still homeschooling, I would expect dd6 to do more things independently:

--do the reading

--take notes

--attempt assignments, or ask questions to clarify what is expected

--know when to ask for more help (from parent, online sources, or other print resources).

 

But also, ten years from now, I will expect to still be walking her through, "things high schoolers learn incrementally."

--polishing a speech or presentation.

--resources for high school/college age projects, and how to find them (professional journal articles, what is a reputable source?, always getting 2+ sources to support your data).

--all of the parts of a major paper or writing (some kids write a book as a project), complete with footnotes, several sources in a bibliography, having proper tense and avoiding first person, etc.

--challenging her to think critically about the things she reads -- even in assigned reading.  (Is that accurate or not accurate?  In what ways is that true, and in what ways is it false?  Where can you go for more information?  Where can you go for an opposing idea?  What were the writer's motives?)

 

I'm not sure this task for instructors/parents ever really ends until our kids either move out of our home (leaving for college) or outpace our ability to help them (by studying subjects -- independently or through another instructor -- that are beyond the parent's ability).

[Heartsjoy]

Some kids pick this up seemingly on their own. Others ( I have both) have to have the steps to independence broken down into bitesize chunks.

The last 2 years I've gone back and forth with my 10 year old. Freedom and responsibility to do school in his order by the day and then by the week. He's now able to manage it by the week mostly. He works off a detailed weekly list. If he declines my offer of spelling, instruction in simplifying complex fractions, whatever, it's his job to get it squeezed into other lesson time I offer later in the week. I go off duty at 5 pm weekdays and weekends and charge 10 dollars an hour for extra tutoring or grading of stuff not turned in on time. In other words don't give me Mondays math at 4 pm on Friday because it was suppose to be turned in Monday maybe even Wednesday is OK but it should b graded corrected and rechecked by 5 pm Friday.

 

Other thoughts-

Overall I keep having to really check my own attitude. What a blessing these precious children are! How do I get that across to each unique one? They keep changing on me. Most "issues" are me needing to find a way to break things down and do some practicing with them and more practicing until it becomes a new habit. Reminding myself how many times I have to retrain myself on habits I struggle with, going to bed on time for me, drinking enough water, keeping stuff graded and handed back twice a day with 3.

 

Hugs along the way,

Melody

[mama27]

_{Sometimes I think homeschooled kids are lazier because they can get away with crap with us they wouldn't dare even try in ps. Obviously I do not mean ALL but mine sure do try and I have read a lot of posts over the years that seem to have this same theme. I'm trying my best to make mine as independent as possible because I should not need to sit there and hold their hands while they do things that are capable of. I'm not talking about teaching new concepts but actually doing the work.}

_JMO

 

 

 

_{Why is font so freakin small and why won't it get bigger even when I click on the number thingie????}

[Donna]

I think personality plays a large roll in this. I have one child who still needs a kick to get started now and then and my youngest has been independent for years and will complete all her work and her practicing on her own on the days I work (her father is home with her to help if necessary but usually does his own thing all day). 

 

I think giving the child choices and building their responsibility a little at a time helps get them in that direction. Doing work they enjoy or that is meaningful to them will encourage them more than doing something they view as pointless or "gotta just get it done." I started by giving them little bits of responsibility, like completing one assignment on their own while I did laundry, initially then slowly built and gave more as they show they are ready for more. 

[SweetMissMagnolia]

I keep waiting....my ds is 10.....I mean we are sooo different-I loved school and doing studies....I guess I had gone through alot more when I was his age than he has and I had to grow up faster (latch key kid)......I guess right now I"m happy I can get him to actually do some work most days..... 

[Joker]

I think it really depends on the age/personality of the student and the level of work they are doing (and sometimes the teacher). Both of my dds are in ps for middle school this year, and they are in the Honors Program at a middle years IB school. There is a lot of work and they do well with most of it on their own, but they do still need us to ride them a bit here and there. Some classes I never really know what's going on because they have it covered, but there are challenging classes/teachers that they need guidance with still, and that's okay. We back off more and more, and I feel by 9th/10th grade that we will not be very heavily involved (with the exception of dh helping with math).

[Critterfixer]

I think there are milestones at which parents expect things to happen, when in fact, nothing happens unless it is is planned for and taught with the expectation and the consequences that come with not meeting the expectation. I'm a big believer in natural consequences where possible.

When it comes to work, the natural consequence of not putting clothes in the hamper is not being able to wear your favorite shorts every day. I don't wash what isn't there.

When it comes to school work the natural consequence of not doing work neatly is doing it over. If you fail a math test or miss too many problems on a lesson, you need to repeat the lesson. And because they are young, I'll be involved in both those consequences, helping them to work through them, no matter how they growl at me. It's not just my job to enforce, but my job to assist where needed, and even to be their sounding board for how unfair mean old mom is.

 

I think age is a factor, as is personality, but I think the majority of responsibility on the part of a child comes from the parent having expectations and teaching the child how to meet them. (Reasonable expectations....but it sometimes comes as a shock to me at just how much a child is willing and proud to do...)

[katilac]

By this I mean, get their work done, be their own motivator, not ask "Am I done yet?" of their teacher (because only they know when they are done, and have done a truly good job). I remember being in 5th or 6th grade and not coming down for dinner because I hadn't written out my math answers to my own satisfaction. I remember not going out to the movies with friends because I wasn't satisfied with a paper I was writing in 6th grade and felt I need to redo it. 

 

Does this happen naturally at a certain age? Did I get to this stage younger than most (and therefore expecting too much out of my kids)? At what age do  you feel kids should be taking ownership of their studies, and actually caring about how well work is done?

I think that "should" is a very dangerous word when applied to kids' abilities, and comparisons are the very devil.

 

No, I don't think it happens naturally at a certain age for all, or even most, people. If most people were their own motivator, the business world would need far fewer managers, lol. Yes, it's unusual for a 6th-grader to voluntarily miss a fun outing b/c a paper isn't quite good enough, and you definitely shouldn't be overly disappointed if your kids don't do the same.

 

Quark is spot-on when she says that how meaningful the work is to the child can have a LOT to do with it. If a kid doesn't care about an assignment, first ask yourself if it's an assignment that is worth caring about. Some assignments are pure busywork; others serve a function, and are worth doing but not worth extended time and effort. I would also add that, the more ownership that the TEACHER feels, the less the student tends to feel. We need to make sure we step back enough to LET them feel ownership.

 

I will also go on record as saying that I think that, sometimes, 'good enough' is, indeed, good enough. To use your own example, if my 6th-grader worked hard, followed the assignment, and ended up with a finished paper that was 'good enough,' I would not *want* them to continue revising it. It's not a graduate thesis; move on! Time is valuable and should be spent wisely. Michael Clay Thompson is big on a best first effort rather than rough drafts, second drafts, etc, and thinks that more is learned by having clear expectations, giving feedback, and applying what you have learned to the NEXT paper, so there's academic reasoning for it as well.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "only they know when they are done." Do you mean it in a very practical sense (why don't you look at your checklist?), or in a more philosophical sense, paired with 'and have done a truly good job"? If the latter, many students need guidance on when they have done 'enough' on more abstract or open-ended assignments. Papers can always be revised further, one can always gain an even deeper understanding of historical events, and so on. And knowing when you have done a truly good job is often quite difficult - there is a reason even famous, professional, gifted writers have editors! Plus, expectations are of course always shifting as the student progresses.

 

For a writing paper, that guidance might be: Well, let's see if you are done. You were supposed to add at least 5 adjectives, did you do that? Are all your supporting details in the right place? Ideally, there are clear, written expectations the student can refer to, but it's perfectly normal to have to walk them through it time and again before they can do it on their own. I definitely remember my teachers doing this with the class as a whole. Even in college and grad school, my professors had office hours, and you were certainly encouraged to use them and get input on whether your assignment was at a proper level, headed in the right direction, and so on.

 

To summarize my novel, it's very appropriate for students to need ongoing guidance. Of course refer them to their checklist or whatnot if they are asking silly questions, but assessing work (and its completeness) is par for the course. "When" a person cares about work well done varies with the person and the work, and can definitely be hindered by a teacher who cares too much. Making it a point of contention or a constant theme will actually make it harder for the student to make the transition, as they have to 'give in' to do it.