s/o At what age does homeschooling "count"?

[ailysh]

I put preschool because around here, all children go to preschool. When people ask if my daughter is in preschool (and they frequently do in making conversation), I tell them no, because I am homeschooling her.

 

I am. I feel absolutely no need to justify that statement with what level of work we are doing, nor would it bother me if somebody said, "No you aren't because you don't fit xyz requirements that I have decided make you a homeschooler." They are entitled to that opinion (though it sounds exhausting to police everybody like that), and I am entitled to continue calling myself whatever I want. I "self-identify" as a homeschooler. ;)

 

I honestly don't understand why people are so obsessed with "proper" labeling. You'd think that a person whose lifestyle is so counterculture (home schooling is) wouldn't develop such rigid standards of what constitutes home education. Live and let live.

[Sahamamama]

I say when they hit preschool age. We lost ALL our friends to school when my kids turned 3 yo and if we hadn't had the "homeschool" label to look for more, we wouldn't have been able to find any. I get why some people roll their eyes at it, but there's a lot of education in those years, even if it's done in a natural, everyday way (I mean, we didn't buy curricula back then), and I think there was purpose and intentionality to what we were doing.

 

I'll add too that I've heard that it's common for people to "cave in" and send k'ers to school but that didn't happen to hardly anyone we knew and I credit the fact that we had such a strong "preschool homeschool" community - there was no question in the minds f any of those parents that the social community and the activities were out there and t wasn't jumping blindly alone into it. So for me, that's another argument for letting the term be freely applied.

 

This was us, also. I hear what Chrysalis Academy is saying, in the sense that with a four year old, it's "just life." OTOH, where we were living at the time, not one family we knew would even think about having a child that had been potty-trained just hanging out at home. All of the moms I knew pushed the potty-training and were so eager to have it done by age two, so they could enroll the child in some sort of preschool. They were thrilled with 2-3 days a week of dropping the kid off at preschool and having their freedom.

 

For me, it was something I could not comprehend. I mean, I do understand the need for some moms to work and have good daycare. I do understand that some moms would want a break and that they didn't all have Grandmas around the corner. But....

 

I don't know. Was it the glee with which they "got rid of" their wee children? Was it how some of the stay-at-home moms had full-time, live-in nannies, so they could go shopping or have their nails done without encumbrance? Maybe that was it -- the perception of small children as encumbrances, rather than gifts. That, and the idea that these small encumbrances would become terribly "behind" if they didn't get into preschool by age two. :confused1:

 

Whatever it was, it deeply unsettled and disturbed me. I was so odd-man out in our community, so strange to not want to "put her somewhere." So very, very strange. When I'd show up for Mom's Morning Out with my three babies, the other moms would point out that eldest was now old enough for preschool, as though I had no clue. "I know," I'd say, "but we are keeping her home." :huh: Oh, the blank looks I got then. Was I a negligent mother? Didn't I care about her future? How could I stand being home with children all day?

 

And so, perhaps as a defense mechanism, we started to say, "We are homeschooling her." That was somehow more acceptable. She was two years old. Yes, I realize this is ridiculous. It is what it is, you know? I think it depends on what you, as the mother of a child "at home," have to deal with in your community. For me, it was easiest to simply identify as a homeschooler, even when they were only toddlers. We intended from the start to continue homeschooling all our children indefinitely. And, as Farrar said, we were intentional and "academic" in our focus, even though our methods were very relaxed in those days.

 

HTH.

[Sahamamama]

I "count" our hsing days as starting when my oldest turned 3, because that's when we made the decision to not send her to any program. We had regularly scheduled activities and learning time.

 

 

Our home looks different to the homes of my daughters peers who are going to pre-school because we are homeschoolers. We have different activities, toys, structure and setup in our house due to it. 

 

This was how I viewed it then, and still do. While all those around us enrolled their children outside the home, we were intentionally teaching and learning at home for Preschool (3), Pre-K (4), and Kindergarten (5). The set up of our home was different from those of our daughter's peers, our schedule/routine was different, the activities we did were different, and (Brag Alert) the results were different. ;) No, it wasn't "just life." No, it wasn't "just parenting," at least not how parenting was defined in our community.

 

When I told other mothers that we were doing preschool at home, they couldn't understand it. One actually shuddered and said, "But why would you want to do that?"

 

However, I wouldn't say that I've homeschooled for X years, including Preschool, Pre-K, and Kindergarten. I would start counting at Kindergarten, and say that they've never been to school. Which is true. ;)

[Sahamamama]

I really, really wish more people felt this way.

 

 

I agree with the people who said that it's hard once your kids get to preschool age and people are sending their kids to B&M prek and talking about which elementary school they'll be going to, and you aren't part of that crowd, and yet the homeschoolers shun you because you're not part of that crowd, either. As I see brand new homeschoolers come around now, I do see why many of you rolled your eyes at me when we were in that prek stage, but I also know how hurt and alone I felt at that stage, so I do try and be as excited as I can for them.

:iagree: I think it could be hurtful to shun or put down newbie homeschoolers because they are "only" teaching a three year old. When my oldest was only three or four, I did feel that way at times, even here on the boards. There were enough helpful, encouraging people here, though, who helped me learn and grow as a mother and teacher.

 

 

Let's not discourage the new set of moms out there (myself included) who want to teach their children at home, okay? So they haven't sent anyone off to Harvard (yet), but we all have to begin somewhere. There are enough naysayers out there as it is, without homeschoolers putting each other down.

[Chrysalis Academy]

:iagree: I think it could be hurtful to shun or put down newbie homeschoolers because they are "only" teaching a three year old. When my oldest was only three or four, I did feel that way at times, even here on the boards. There were enough helpful, encouraging people here, though, who helped me learn and grow as a mother and teacher.

 

 

Let's not discourage the new set of moms out there (myself included) who want to teach their children at home, okay? So they haven't sent anyone off to Harvard (yet), but we all have to begin somewhere. There are enough naysayers out there as it is, without homeschoolers putting each other down.

 

I totally hear you, and I hope my confession of eye-rolling didn't come across as putting other homeschoolers down.  The context where I live is that there is such a preponderance of unschoolers that you are kind of looked down upon if you are not one.  I get tired of people thinking I'm somehow damaging my children by actually having formal academic goals, assignments, etc.  But, it doesn't help anything if I behave dismissively to others just because they are behaving dismissively to me . . . golden rule and all. :)

[Meriwether]

 

So dd10 could easily graduate early - she will, in fact, be 17 when she starts college if we take no action.  And judging from her current asynchrony, that would not be a good thing, even though I expect she'll be ready for college-level work at that point.  We don't have to make a decision yet, but we are actively considering an extra year of middle school so that she's the appropriate age - 18 - when she is "ready" for 4-year college.

I have a Dd10 in 6th grade and am thinking about adding an extra year of middle school as well.  I hadn't planned on starting early.  Dd did a few days of K with her older cousin and asked me for two months when she was going to start.  Dd won't turn 11 until the last few weeks of school so she'd be on the younger side of 5th if she were in school.  But like your Dd she is tall for her age.  She is bright. Since she was 2, she has always acted at least a year older than she was.  She'd probably fit right in in a 6th grade class. But I don't want to graduate her early for all the reasons 8 mentioned upthread. And, well, I'm not anxious to see her go.  Dh thinks we should just continue on our current trajectory and then decide whether or not to graduate her at just turned 17.  I'd rather add another year now than add a year onto high school. There are so many fun things to do if we add another year at this level.  Adding a year at the end would mean harder classes.  Not that I'm against challenging classes, but if we wait to decide until she is 17, I'll have to have four high school worthy years by that point already.

 

The question I was attempting to raise, not with you specifically but with concept of 4 yr olds in k, was that it shouldn't be considered in isolation of being ready for K or 1st grade. The issue stretches forward throughout their entire academic education. Yes, some kids step into K at a young age and thrive. But, it is equally true that many kids that start young lack the maturity (not behavior, but self-discipline to stay focused on task for extended periods of time and/or putting in the required amt of time for writing, researching,etc.....the output rquired for classes) and the development of abstract thinking skills that are required in upper grades bc they ultimately follow a more normal cognitive development and their cognitive skills lag a yr behind the grade level when they are older.

I'm still waiting for Dd to plateau.  I've expected a slow down at some point.  She's doing a solid 6th grade this year with great understanding and retention.  She often starts before the rest of us get downstairs.  I'll give the kids an hour or more for lunch/break.  She'll get all the kids some lunch (Yes, I let her do it. She enjoys it, and I'm on a diet.), play a bit, and then come down and start school again.  She has never enjoyed playing with toys, dolls, kitchen sets, etc.  She likes to be active and spend time with other kids, but it seems like she was born old in some ways.  I won't mind if she plateaus at some point.  It would make some decisions easier for me. I do think some kids are ready for K at 4, though.

[a27mom]

I find it amusing to read that according to some not only am I not homeschooling, I might never get to homeschool, lol.

 

State laws vary so greatly. I live in what is essentially a zero reg state. We do have a compulsory age, but it is 7-17. I never have to actually do anything about that though, there is no official declaration of homeschooling of any sort. I may never need to inform the state of my children's educational existence.

 

I am not sure I quite see the need to for "homeschooling" to have an across the board cut and dried definition. Surely it is a term that can be used differently in different contextual situations.

 

For example, I did not say I was "officially homeschooling" until my oldest did K last year. (Even though in the state I live there is nothing official about it). But when we did not send my 4 y/o to preschool and people asked if she started preschool yet, or where she went to preschool, I would often reply that I was homeschooling for preschool, or we were doing preschool at home. Since around here going out to preschool tends to be a standard thing, unless you are homeschooling (which is also quite popular). In that context I think homeschooling is a a perfectly appropriate term. I could not say, no we are just "living" instead of preschool, or I am just "parenting" instead of preschool, that would come across as obnoxious. Where I live "Homeschooling preschool" is the clearest way to communicate the concept of choosing to keep your child home in the preschool years, as opposed to just never having thought about your child's education.

 

Now I do not think that that somehow gives you permission to insist on a right to join a homeschool group or call yourself an expert, or to be unclear when speaking to others later in life.

 

Similarly it would be poor communication for me to say "nowhere, I am parenting" when someone asks me where my 6 y/o goes to school. In order to be clear I say "we homeschool", even though she isn't compulsory school age. (Very few people other than homeschoolers actually know the compulsory school age in my state anyway ;)

 

Seems to me the most legitimate use of the term is the way it is understood in the context of the conversation. And then of course to clarify if it is ambiguous. So, if someone asks me how long we have have homeschooled I might say " well, she is in first grade so officially this our 2nd year". Or I might say "well, really for 3 years because we started when my oldest was 4". Or I might just say "we've always homeschooled" and let them do the math. I think all three are legitimate answers as long as the communication is clear. So someone could legitimately say "we have been homeschooling for 14 years, since we believe the homeschooling lifestyle begins at birth." But yes, for them to walk around saying "I am a 14 yr veteran of homeschooling," with no further explanation is either deceitful, silly, or clueless.

 

As far as homeschool groups, I think it is perfectly appropriate for groups to have age guidelines. It makes sense. Although I sure it is a bit tough for those who live in areas where homeschooling is unpopular. But I don't think groups need to declare who qualifies in the broader context as a homeschooler. Just make an age guideline. Or provide clarity of context.

 

In the broad context there is no official legal or copyrighted definition of homeschooling. (Yes I understand some localities have legal definitions, but in my state we are considered private schools.) So all we can really ask is for people to clarify what they mean by "homeschooling".

[Sahamamama]

I totally hear you, and I hope my confession of eye-rolling didn't come across as putting other homeschoolers down.  The context where I live is that there is such a preponderance of unschoolers that you are kind of looked down upon if you are not one.  I get tired of people thinking I'm somehow damaging my children by actually having formal academic goals, assignments, etc.  But, it doesn't help anything if I behave dismissively to others just because they are behaving dismissively to me . . . golden rule and all. :)

 

LOL, isn't that the way it goes, unfortunately? Around here there seem to be a number of Abeka and/or BJU and/or "other boxed" homeschoolers. We are not in that subset, we do more WTM/PHP type material and methods. Anyway, I have an unschooling friend, and she says she feels looked down upon by the Abeka/Boxer people -- as though she is somehow ruining her children by unschooling them. So, pretty much the opposite of what you experience, Rose. Sigh.

 

Isn't this just so ridiculous? You are not ruining your children. I was an abuse/foster care social worker before I got married. I have some thoughts about what truly constitutes "damaging children." It does not include an involved, loving, caring, nurturing, tenderhearted parent, no matter what method of education that parent is using with her child.

[8filltheheart]

I'm still waiting for Dd to plateau. I've expected a slow down at some point. She's doing a solid 6th grade this year with great understanding and retention. She often starts before the rest of us get downstairs. I'll give the kids an hour or more for lunch/break. She'll get all the kids some lunch (Yes, I let her do it. She enjoys it, and I'm on a diet.), play a bit, and then come down and start school again. She has never enjoyed playing with toys, dolls, kitchen sets, etc. She likes to be active and spend time with other kids, but it seems like she was born old in some ways. I won't mind if she plateaus at some point. It would make some decisions easier for me. I do think some kids are ready for K at 4, though.

She may never hit a bump. :). My current 9th grade dd could just as easily be an 11th grader w/o me changing anything other than the label. She was ready for high school level work by mid 7th grade and has only increased in her drive/ability over the past yr and a half.

 

Our oldest, otoh, was a younger student and graduated high school at 17 bc of his bday. He was fine in most things, but writing output was always one of those areas where I had to stay on top of him in order for him to produce acceptable assignments. He was capable, but he was reluctant. It was like that from 4th through 10th. In11th his "internal" factor kicked in, finally.

 

They are all different. There is no single answer. It is just one of those things that we should be aware of bc if the pace exceeds actual ability, it can lead to a lot of unnecessary frustration.

[Dana]

I have a Dd10 in 6th grade and am thinking about adding an extra year of middle school as well. I hadn't planned on starting early. Dd did a few days of K with her older cousin and asked me for two months when she was going to start. Dd won't turn 11 until the last few weeks of school so she'd be on the younger side of 5th if she were in school. But like your Dd she is tall for her age. She is bright. Since she was 2, she has always acted at least a year older than she was. She'd probably fit right in in a 6th grade class. But I don't want to graduate her early for all the reasons 8 mentioned upthread. And, well, I'm not anxious to see her go. Dh thinks we should just continue on our current trajectory and then decide whether or not to graduate her at just turned 17. I'd rather add another year now than add a year onto high school. There are so many fun things to do if we add another year at this level. Adding a year at the end would mean harder classes. Not that I'm against challenging classes, but if we wait to decide until she is 17, I'll have to have four high school worthy years by that point already.

 

You can search for the tag "grade level" and find discussions about retention.

My son is in the 6th grade at 11 this year. He meets our state's cutoff of Sept 1 by 3 days, so he'd be the youngest in his class and he's very small. Academically he does great. He has severe food allergies and I worry about sending him off to live in dorms. So we've been debating repeating a year. If we do, it will be this year. We were going to repeat 5th and let him basically have an unschooling year, but for testing reasons with some of the talent searches, we moved him to 6th this year and will make the final decision about repeating at the end of this year.

[Guest ArtMom]

When someone asks how long we've been homeschooling I don't count anything before kindergarten but I took the homeschool label when my oldest was in preschool because everyone sends their kids to preschool (and pre-K) around here. On one hand, I can see why you should be allowed in a HS group during that time but also see how it could be problematic if people are joining it don't end up homeschooling. Isn't there HS preschool groups? (it's been a long time since I only had a preschooler), I think that would be a good thing. :)

[Meriwether]

You can search for the tag "grade level" and find discussions about retention.

My son is in the 6th grade at 11 this year. He meets our state's cutoff of Sept 1 by 3 days, so he'd be the youngest in his class and he's very small. Academically he does great. He has severe food allergies and I worry about sending him off to live in dorms. So we've been debating repeating a year. If we do, it will be this year. We were going to repeat 5th and let him basically have an unschooling year, but for testing reasons with some of the talent searches, we moved him to 6th this year and will make the final decision about repeating at the end of this year.

Thanks, I think I've read them all.  :001_smile:  I don't post often, but I read tons of threads.  I'm dithering because there doesn't seem to be a "one right answer" with her.  She could probably go to any school she wanted to, but she wants to go to the state school I went to.  She should easily get a full ride there, assuming she progresses at even a moderate pace. Her cousin will probably go there.  The are both in the same grade now.  Dd would be a year behind her cousin if I retain her (retain her in our minds only, she is officially registered as a 5th grader). She doesn't have any particular interests.  I know she could develop a passion for something, but she is my jack-of-all trades, master-of-none girl.  She is interested in everything but has no particular area of interest.  She's very independent and would probably be fine in college at 17.  I don't want to send her at 17, though.  Time enough for all that.  And she may end up needing or wanting that extra year at home for an interest, a program, better chance at scholarships/acceptances at more exclusive schools, etc.  I just don't know.  I have time, but next year is the year I would like do things differently depending on what I decide.

[Dana]

Thanks, I think I've read them all. :001_smile: I don't post often, but I read tons of threads. I'm dithering because there doesn't seem to be a "one right answer" with her.

Right there with you!

 

I figure we do the best we can with our choice and then live with it.

We were going to be done with it last year but then decided to progress this year. I want the crystal ball to see what the best decision will be :)

[MissKNG]

I voted Kindergarten. BUT it "counts" legally when I have to officially report to the state.

[Sahamamama]

I have a Dd10 in 6th grade and am thinking about adding an extra year of middle school as well. 

 

T, I was thinking about R when I read Eight's and Rose's posts. She fits the bill for "young 6th" for sure.

 

Now, I'm curious about this. I've always wondered what you do if you have a student who can handle HS level work in middle school. Do you count the work on the HS transcript? Do you call the years 6th Grade A and 6th Grade B? I realize you don't have to put MS work on a HS transcript, but what do you do if your student completes Alg 1 & Geo by the end of 8th? Or the equivalent level in another subject?

 

I am intrigued by the idea of slowing it down with these students. The college at twelve idea does not appeal to me in the least. In our case, the girls didn't start "early." They are not a grade level "ahead" in the sense that I label their grades one year ahead of their ages. They are ahead in the level of work they're doing (mostly), even though I have made serious attempts to really, really slow things down. (For example, we took 15 months one year to complete the "school year," because I wanted to move from a January to an August start date. I also went hypothyroid, so that literally slowed me down. But I was okay with that. They're not behind at all).

 

For S, slowing it down is for retention. She can rattle off anything, verbatim, after only 1-2 passes, but that doesn't mean she remembers a thing a month later. Also, I think it's good for her to handle the frustration of being asked to remember something we studied a while ago, as this seems to be the only way I've found to knock the "I know it all" chip off her shoulder. She is, after all, nearly nine. ;) LOL. She is starting to see that it's acceptable, normal, and reasonable to return to the same information, learn it more deeply, work harder to really retain it, and connect it to the rest of what she's learning.

 

These posts about an "extra" year of middle school for younger students have me thinking that this would be a great opportunity to shift the goal from exposure to mastery -- not necessarily to explore so many new topics, or even to cover old material in the same way, but to require from the maturing student a level of mastery that had not previously been achieved (or possible to achieve). With a bright student, you would almost have to put the material aside for a time, test, review, set aside, and then demand mastery recall. Otherwise, you'd be testing what had just been studied, not what is firmly and truly learned. KWIM?

 

Not to derail, but how do you go about adding in another year, or dragging out middle school, if that becomes the best choice?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Well, I'm still just flirting with the idea of an "extra" year of middle school.  But it does appeal to me to add an extra year in ms rather than later deciding that 9th grade was really 8th grade.   I like the idea of having the extra time before we have all the formal high school, college prep requirements to think about, where dd can master skills like math and writing and study/organizational/time management skills, but also where she can explore interests in a less pressured way.  So there are a whole bunch of kind of out-of-the box things that have appealed to us, like Big History or Movies as Literature, or having time for Counting & Probability & Number Theory, to Science Literacy, to science fair projects, to "extra" science besides the Big Three . . . things that might not fit into the specific college-prep path for high school, but that she might want to explore.  It would just give her that extra year of pressure-free time to explore interests and hone skills.

 

It's just one way to do it, but it does sound appealing when I write it all out like that . . .  :001_smile:

[8filltheheart]

Now, I'm curious about this. I've always wondered what you do if you have a student who can handle HS level work in middle school. Do you count the work on the HS transcript?

 

 

 

I am intrigued by the idea of slowing it down with these students.

 

These posts about an "extra" year of middle school for younger students have me thinking that this would be a great opportunity to shift the goal from exposure to mastery -- not necessarily to explore so many new topics, or even to cover old material in the same way, but to require from the maturing student a level of mastery that had not previously been achieved (or possible to achieve). With a bright student, you would almost have to put the material aside for a time, test, review, set aside, and then demand mastery recall. Otherwise, you'd be testing what had just been studied, not what is firmly and truly learned. KWIM?

 

Not to derail, but how do you go about adding in another year, or dragging out middle school, if that becomes the best choice?

I don't think you need to slow them down. It is more like broaden their sails and let them ride with the wind in a less straight-forward typical course sequence. We do use the time to explore all sorts of non-traditional subjects and pursue interests/develop passions. :) For example, my dd that is just starting high school this yr spent last yr entirely on ecological systems (which she LOVED) vs. jumping into physics or chemistry; she spent more time on foreign languages; and we spent time wandering through whatever literature and poetry she wanted to study, etc. Even with her less traditional coursework, during middle school she completed 5 and 1/2 credits of foreign lang, alg 1, and geo. Her English courses could easily be high school credit, but I don't include those types of courses on their transcripts b/c they are not sequential whereas the others do build sequentially.

 

If you search the accelerated board, this topic has been discussed at length. FWIW, they should continue coursework through high school. For example, even though dd has plenty of foreign lang credit, she needs to continue it through high school at her level for X number of yrs to meet college entrance requirements of X # of yrs of foreign lang in high school, etc. (just an example, she is taking 3 high school foreign lang credits this yr alone and has zero intent of stopping any of them before graduation and wants to add more. Just that they need to continue forward. So, if they take pre-cal in 9th grade, don't stop math thinking they have 4 math credits. They need to continue forward with 4 math credits in high school just at higher levels beyond cal)

[Matryoshka]

If you search the accelerated board, this topic has been discussed at length. FWIW, they should continue coursework through high school.   For example, even though dd has plenty of foreign lang credit, she needs to continue it through high school at her level for X number of yrs to meet college entrance requirements of X # of yrs of foreign lang in high school, etc.   (just an example, she is taking 3 high school foreign lang credits this yr alone and has zero intent of stopping any of them before graduation and wants to add more.   Just that they need to continue forward...

 

Sorry, a bit of a derail, but I've been pondering this... Do you think I should have my kids continue at least one FL credit all the way to senior year?  My older two dds (sophomores) will be taking the German AP this year, and Spanish AP next year, which means they'll have run out of "standard" FL courses their senior year.  I think they'd both be happy to be done with formal FL study senior year, and it would free them up for other electives.  But should they do something to show they've continued?

 

They're also going to ps for high school - I'm not sure how I'm going to manage to tweak their transcript, but tweaked it will be - all their German "credits" are outside school - I'm not expecting them to get formal credit, but I'd like to put something somewhere in their file about how they magically made it to the AP level.  I'm wondering if they could do some kind of independent study in a language their senior year, perhaps under the supervision of one of the PS teachers, without having to drop one of their other electives??  Or do you think 3 "official" credits of FL but two FL APs would be okay, even if there was nothing senior year??

 

[8filltheheart]

I wouldn't worry about any their sr yr if they have 2 APs. Many of the universities ds is applying to stipulate 3 yrs of the same language. I just threw the for lang example in there b/c of dd. Check out the websites for various schools. Some say 4 English, 3,3,3,3 (math, science, foreign lang, history). I want my kids to have at least 4 of everything except foreign lang and then 3 is ok. (though I have read that some schools are shifting toward 4). Your kids have way more than the avg applicant. :)