Do Chemistry over senior year?

[imeverywoman]

I am not happy with my rising senior.  He did a VERY poor job with a chemistry class he took online with apologia. He fell behind early in the class and wound up doing poorly as a result. He grew so discouraged and eventually stopped putting in much effort.  I've thought about having him re-do the material on his own, but I just don't think I want to endure/micro-manage that. I'm strongly contemplating having him sign up again for the same course with the same instructor. The drawback to that is that it will be a "wasted" year in that he won't be accumulating another science credit.

 

I guess what I'm asking is: 1) would you allow a do-over, and 2) am I making a bad decision, as he won't be getting to Physics or Anatomy, etc.?

[Julie of KY]

While I think it is good to learn chemistry, I question if it the best decision to repeat with the same course/book/instructor.

 

Is there something about the course structure that led to him doing poorly? Would a different instructor inspire him better to learn?

 

Also, while chemistry is good, so are physics and anatomy. Does one of these appeal to him better?

[imeverywoman]

Yes. He would really enjoy anatomy. I have to admit that I'm probably trying to teach him a lesson that he cannot just do "whatever" and it be okay. I also don't want him to have that awful grade on his transcript. It will positively destroy his GPA. That is why I thought of having him redo the material on his own, taking the tests, and ultimately, take a standardized test to demonstrate that he has learned the material. Truthfully, anatomy would be more enjoyable for him, and probably much more beneficial. I just don't know what to do with that chemistry grade. :( 

[Jenny in Florida]

Chemistry isn't an easy class. I would consider putting him in a different type of Chemistry course. One that's more 'fun' and engaging. Have him pick it. (Time4Learning or Thinkwell) are the two my kids really thought were 'fun' looking.

 

Then I would have him take the science class he would enjoy 'Anatomy'. If he plans on going the college road he has to learn early that if you don't perform well in a class, you have to take it over. But in most cases you can change the teacher.

 

Teaching him accountability isn't a bad thing. I'd just have him take 2 science classes and give up a 'fun' class in it's place as that's what he'd have to do if he was in a traditional school setting.

This was my thought as well. In that situation, my kid would have to re-take the chemistry class (for what our local public schools call "grade forgiveness") AND do the required course for the current year. I think this accomplishes two things:

 

1. It gets the awful chemistry grade off the transcript.

2. It's an unpleasant/inconvenient outcome that shows the student he can't just walk away from a decision to blow off his academic responsibilities.

[Grantmom]

So, if a child gets an undesirable grade, they can retake the class and have the first one removed from their transcript?  Do you show this on the transcript, or do you just replace it with the new work?

[Jenny in Florida]

So, if a child gets an undesirable grade, they can retake the class and have the first one removed from their transcript?  Do you show this on the transcript, or do you just replace it with the new work?

 

I just looked up Florida's laws on the subject. The language of the statute says that a student who earns a grade of D or F (or the equivalent) in a course may repeat the course or take a "comparable" course. If the student earns a C, B or A the next time around, the higher grade "replaces" the original grade. There is an exception made for students who take a high school class while in middle school that allows them to re-take a class to replace a grade of C with an A or B, also.

 

The statute specifies that only the replacement grade is used in calculating GPA for graduation. It looks like the specifics of how this is shown on the transcript may be left up to individual school districts. Our local district's policy is that both courses are shown on the transcript, but only the higher grade is counted for GPA/graduation purposes.

[regentrude]

As others have suggested, I would have him retake chemistry, but with a different course/instructor.

I would also have him take the science that was originally scheduled for the year. He would either have to double up on science and not have time for an elective class, or he would retake the course over the summer (as is frequently done in schools when a student has failed a course and wants to stay on track for graduation).

 

I see no need to put the failing grade on the transcript, because I do not see anything gained by failing a student: I give credit once the student has demonstrated sufficient mastery of the subject and give the student whatever time is needed to get to this point. If it takes him two years to do the work needed for his one chemistry credit, then so be it.

Giving failing grades and moving on anyway is something schools must do for logistic and scheduling reasons that do not apply in a homeschool; ideally, students should not get away with a D or F but should have to continue working on the material until they manage passing.

[nancy in nj]

Assuming your senior is applying to college for next fall, he will not have a replacement grade in time for the college admission process. Given that he is a senior, I think it is important that your son take ownership of the decision as to whether to repeat the course or accept the low grade, the effect on GPA and the consequences/limitations that will decision will have (if any) on his future plans. This is his final year of homeschooling, so it is much more important to make the most of the time/experience in light of his future goals rather than repeating a course solely for sake of teaching him a lesson---earlier in high school, absolutely, but senior year it seems more punitive than productive.

[Julie in MN]

Giving failing grades and moving on anyway is something schools must do for logistic and scheduling reasons that do not apply in a homeschool; ideally, students should not get away with a D or F but should have to continue working on the material until they manage passing.

 

I agree with this completely.

 

And at our local public school, kids who fail a course are usually to take it during summer school.  Summer school courses are like 6 weeks of worksheet packets.  Then they get a new grade.  It's a very lame school so I'm not sure how more advanced schools do it, but my daughter totally shut down in public school 9th but got a 1/2 science credit for just attending the labs (didn't do a thing but attend), and a 1/2 credit for the summer worksheets (which she was extremely slow at). 

 

I know he needs to learn some things, but I wouldn't be too extremely hard on him, because really his grades will be compared with other students who probably did less and got more.

 

Julie

[regentrude]

Assuming your senior is applying to college for next fall, he will not have a replacement grade in time for the college admission process. Given that he is a senior, I think it is important that your son take ownership of the decision as to whether to repeat the course or accept the low grade, the effect on GPA and the consequences/limitations that will decision will have (if any) on his future plans. This is his final year of homeschooling, so it is much more important to make the most of the time/experience in light of his future goals rather than repeating a course solely for sake of teaching him a lesson---earlier in high school, absolutely, but senior year it seems more punitive than productive.

 

 I would not view  having to repeat the course as being a punishment, nor do I feel even a senior student gets to decide what is required for graduation from (home)school. The school (in this case the parent) has to make the decision whether the graduation requirement is having actually learned chemistry or having taken a year of however little chemistry with whatever result.

If the school (parent)'s objective has been to simply take one year of chemistry, never mind the outcome or content completed, then I agree, the student may get to choose where to go from there. If the objective has been, however, to pass chemistry with a  minimum degree of mastery, the student needs to repeat the course. In any case, the decision what constitutes meeting graduation requirements should NOT rest with the student.

[nancy in nj]

I wasn't suggesting that the student be graduated without completing the appropriate graduation requirements. However, I've never heard of chemistry being a set-in-stone graduation requirement, though a year of physical science is fairly standard. The OP did not express concern about not meeting graduation requirements just the effect of a poor grade on the gpa/transcript, which would have varying consequences depending on the after-graduation plans. If the student is planning to apply to college for the fall during the normal admissions process, the damage is already done to the transcript; the only alternative to reporting the low grade might be to leave off the 11th grade science as it has not been completed, reflecting a year with no science credit. If the student had been planning to attend a 4 year college next fall and the chemistry grade or lack of a science credit for last year would drastically impact those plans, then the consequence would be to either extend high school by a year to beef of the transcript before applying or accept the fact that the caliber/choice of college is going to be impacted by the low chemistry grade. If the student is planning to pursue something other than 4-year college, such as attending community college or enlisting in the military, there may be different (or no) practical consequences, assuming the graduation requirements are met. The decision needs to be made in context of future plans, which I would think would require a large amount of input from the student.

[imeverywoman]

I just looked up Florida's laws on the subject. The language of the statute says that a student who earns a grade of D or F (or the equivalent) in a course may repeat the course or take a "comparable" course. If the student earns a C, B or A the next time around, the higher grade "replaces" the original grade. There is an exception made for students who take a high school class while in middle school that allows them to re-take a class to replace a grade of C with an A or B, also.

 

The statute specifies that only the replacement grade is used in calculating GPA for graduation. It looks like the specifics of how this is shown on the transcript may be left up to individual school districts. Our local district's policy is that both courses are shown on the transcript, but only the higher grade is counted for GPA/graduation purposes.

This is correct.  My dd has several ps friends who bomb classes in school and re-take them through FLVS.

[imeverywoman]

.

 

 

 I give credit once the student has demonstrated sufficient mastery of the subject and give the student whatever time is needed to get to this point. If it takes him two years to do the work needed for his one chemistry credit, then so be it.

Giving failing grades and moving on anyway is something schools must do for logistic and scheduling reasons that do not apply in a homeschool; ideally, students should not get away with a D or F but should have to continue working on the material until they manage passing.

For Pete's Sake!!! I just typed out the longest response, and poof! It's gone. Anyway, I agree with you, Regentrude. and I wish my dh was on the same page. He believes it to be unfair to allow our kids extra time to get the work since the kids in school have to earn the grades they do with a limitation of time. Nevertheless, he gives me full autonomy to make the decisions.

 

I agree with everything you've said, and probably just needed the thumbs up to do what I know needs to be done. Here I go to tighten my bootstraps... Parenting is some kind of job, isn't it??

 

Thanks for listening.

[regentrude]

I wasn't suggesting that the student be graduated without completing the appropriate graduation requirements. However, I've never heard of chemistry being a set-in-stone graduation requirement, though a year of physical science is fairly standard. The OP did not express concern about not meeting graduation requirements just the effect of a poor grade on the gpa/transcript, which would have varying consequences depending on the after-graduation plans.... If the student is planning to pursue something other than 4-year college, such as attending community college or enlisting in the military, there may be different (or no) practical consequences, assuming the graduation requirements are met. The decision needs to be made in context of future plans, which I would think would require a large amount of input from the student.

 

Maybe you misunderstood: I am not talking about a state's graduation requirement, but about the homeschooling parents' requirements of their student. In my state, for example, homeschoolers do not have to adhere to any graduation requirements for public schools; my graduation requirements for my homeschooled students definitely include chemistry and calculus.

That's why I said the parents have to decide whether passing chemistry is a requirement for graduation from their home school, or not.