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Tutoring behind 8th grader


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I am teaching a student who by age is an 8th grader, although I think is considered a 7th grader. His education has been a mishmash. I have him working through MM grade 4 placement test (with grade identifying material removed.) He does not have the material down cold. I've seen a lot of lights come on as we work (a bar diagram rocked his math world). I'm really concerned about moving him through this material in a timely matter without holes. Has anyone covered 4 years material in 1-2 with an older student? The workbook format of Math Mammoth seems to work for him, and I already own it.

 

Same student is very capable reader, has no formal background in writing, although loves to write "adventure stories". Am I going to overwhelm him with WWS1? We did a very small part of the first lesson today. If I walk him through it, he does fine, and I have my frustration meter tuned in. Thoughts? How quickly does the material ramp up? I don't own WWE 3 or 4 to back him up, and looking at the samples, I think he's too old for them.

 

Thanks!

Bean

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With a child that old, I would work through the IEW TWSS DVDs with him. Then, I would start requiring him to write.

 

At the same time, I would run through Winston Grammar Basic quickly doing multiple lessons each week. Perhaps on day one I would cover the lesson and then do a few sentences form the worksheet with him and then on day 2 have him finish the worksheet independently. After he finished WG, I would probably move on to a middle school text. At that age grammar, usage, and mechanics will be much easier to teach. I had a friend who did no formal grammar until her son was in 7th grade when he did Shurley English 6 and he was fine. Grammar is pretty abstract. I have seen many people suggest waiting and just teaching it once instead of repeating the same thing year after year.

 

Since he is a capable reader, I see no point in coddling him. He should be able to pick this stuff up pretty quickly and then just do age appropriate work.

 

I am not sure about math. Maybe BCM. I am just pretty sure I wouldn't try to work through several years of MM in 1-2 years with a child who is capable of picking it up and moving faster.

 

Some of it has to do with what you are comfortable using as a teacher and some of it has to do with how he works as a student. And, like I said, if what you are doing is working, don't switch.

Mandy

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Reading is good. I'm really not sure why he's so behind. They've alluded to learning differences, but we "popcorn read" out loud, so I know he's not bluffing on his reading level (reads probably 7/8th grade level). He can write short stories and such, and the grammar usage and punctuation is passable.

 

His handwriting is horrible. I may suggest cursive or typing first. I forgot IEW has the intensives. I might have to look at those, although I generally don't care for their programs. As a jump start, it might be just the thing.

 

I have his younger sister as well. She's 8, I don't see any learning differences (picks everything up I teach her, though she would rather play, eat and do crafts), but conceptually, I had to start her with first grade math and handwriting. She does read at a second grade level. These kids came out of a private school. A very unschooly school, but their family paid for this?

 

I looked at a BCM book, but I think I need smaller bites for math. I'm really struggling to discover his level. He did better today with rounding, but he had never seen a bar graph and had no idea how to fill one in (on the MM 4 placement test.)

 

Is there a really gentle, inexpensive prealebra book I could work him through?

 

 

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Developmental Math is rather inexpensive and he could move at his own pace. I made my 17 year old start with the beginning. He has moved through 4 books in 3 weeks. You don't have to do that. Just have your student take the DM placement tests and start there. Rainbow Resource has the series for cheap.

 

I would not try a pre-alg book with a child who has that many holes and is that behind. That is doomed to failure. {speaking from experience with my oldest son here.} But College of the Redwoods PreAlgebra is fairly cheap {$25, I think}. I used to have a link to the book for free but cannot seem to locate it now. www.lulu.com has it.

 

I second IEW SWI. Start with B or even A as 8 yr old could also use that one. Make him write summaries of what he is reading in his other subjects. Same with 8 yr old. Knowing how to write stories is no where near knowing how to write academically. Jump In! by Apologia might also be useful. WWS will likely blow his little mind if he has almost no background.

 

I would also get a reading list going for both. I like the one from Logos School. I can email it to you, if you like.

 

Winston or Jr Analytical Grammar would be a good place to start. Even Logic of English Essentials might be worth a peek. It can be used with both kiddos. 

 

Reteach cursive but may I suggest an Italic form as the letters will not change. Think lowercase D'Nealian print connected. Son 2 had the WORST handwriting ever until I forced him to start doing this a few weeks ago. Also, Handwriting Without Tears narrow paper helps a lot. Do not let him just type everything. Insist on careful writing.

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OP, as a user of Math Mammoth, if I were in your shoes I'd continue having him work through MM, as long as its working. Perhaps try having him do the chapter reviews & tests as pre-tests or use them to see which chapters he can fully "test out" of, and then slow down as needed and do the relevant lessons when you find gaps in his knowledge. Perhaps its just a matter of him not previously being exposed thoroughly to certain topics, rather than true learning differences. Or maybe he just needs things presented differently than he had them before, especially since you say MM seems to be clicking with him.
 

I wouldn't worry about the bar diagram technique taking some time.  I had trouble with it myself as an adult at first - just never had math taught to me that way as a kid. 

 

I also wouldn't stress yet too much about his handwriting.  Just a few weeks of remediation and practice may make a huge difference.  My DS coming out of PS after 3rd grade had atrocious handwriting, simply because his teachers didn't have time in a class of 20+ to work with each kid and I was too naïve at the time to be clued in to the handwriting issues.  He was simply forming the letters incorrectly, starting at the "wrong" spot, etc.  Sitting by his side and immediately correcting the problems on each letter, while explaining that it wasn't his fault that he had been taught incorrectly/incompletely, it didn't take long to get straightened out. 

 

I'd think an older student with math gaps could do MM4 through MM6 (3 levels) at an accelerated pace in as little as a year and a half, a semester per level . . . especially considering the review/overlap on certain topics that carries over from MM4 to 5, and from 5 to 6, which could possibly be eliminated. My DS averaged about 3/4 of a year per level in MM, without trying to accelerate at all, and he doesn't even particularly like math, LOL. MM is clear, conceptual and concise in its instruction, and the author has said it was designed for users to be able to assign only half the problems in each set and be just fine (complete and thorough) as long as the student is picking it up that way. The full problem sets are meant to be used only if a student is having a harder time grasping the concepts and needs extra practice.

MM6 (original/as yet not aligned to CC - soon some topics will be moved to a new MM7) is considered by many users to contain most of what traditional pre-algebra programs cover in both scope and depth. Upon completing MM6 many students are ready for algebra, while some take a second go at pre-algebra with a deeper/richer program. It depends on the kid. Its a critical period and you certainly don't want to push forward without filling the gaps.

I've compared Lial's BCM, MM6 & a standard PS middle school Pre-Alg text. MM6 is very close to being a complete pre-algebra, and I can't think of one more gentle and inexpensive, as you mentioned. I view BCM as "pre-pre-algebra". It is meant to be a college remedial course & personally I think the BCM format & the context of some of its word problems really aren't appropriate for most middle schoolers. Just my 2 cents.

HTH.

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You asked how quickly WWS1 ramps up the difficulty . . . I haven't gone through all of it with my DS yet (we're in week 10), but I've read/heard that many users stop after week 22. That's a good time to take a break to do other writing or more application of WWS skills learned up to that point, before starting the literary analysis section.

WWE isn't a required prerequisite for WWS, but I believe solid narration skills and paragraph writing skills need to be in place from the beginning. I agree, I think WWE3 or WWE4 would probably seem too young to your student, but you could still have him do focused practice on oral narrations and then gradually transition to writing them down, *if* he starts having trouble with the more challenging narrations in WWS. Perhaps just use the same approach as WWE narrations but from source material on his reading level.

I had my DS do IEW's SWI-B as well as Paragraph Writing Made Easy (topic sentences, supporting details, outlining) and certain sections from the Writing Skills series (expository/academic writing) last year before we started WWS1 this year. I don't regret doing that at all. Maybe a brief, focused jaunt through a program like PWME or Writing Skills will help your student get on the right track if he starts struggling with WWS.
 

I wouldn't do SWI level A with a 7th/8th grader with an on-grade reading level, unless you're dead set on using it with the younger sibling as well at the same time. Placement for SWI should be based on reading level, not writing level or previous writing experience. Level A can work for an older student but is not ideal, IMO. My DS did level B as a 5th grader (and previously-reluctant writer) with no problems.

 

Also, you may already be doing this, but I've found it *very* helpful for my DS if I go through his student section of WWS and highlight the critical instructions/steps before he starts each assignment. As you get further into it, you'll see there are a lot of instructions buried within the text, which is a good thing, because it is so thorough, but my DS just needs a little boost to rise to the challenge of WWS. I'll eventually stop highlighting for him, but it seems to be a big help now. Just a tidbit that might be beneficial.

Maybe I missed how you came to be tutoring this student, but bravo to you for helping him & trying to find the best way for him. Good luck!

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Even Logic of English Essentials might be worth a peek. It can be used with both kiddos. 

 

I love L of E, it's so flexible. I bought the handwriting just for his sister, and wish it had be around for my dc. He has peeked at it, and since it is so straight forward, I may have him use it.

 

I have the teacher book, and I love how it's written for so many levels. I have him starting on the higher grade level spelling list, but I could take him through the grammar and other parts this fall, and see about IEW in the spring.

 

I came to tutor these kiddos because their school closed. My dd attended there on a super part-time basis (one day a week here and there), so I was aware how serious a situation it is; there's no way these kids could be dropped into a local public school three weeks into the school year.

 

 

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Reading is good. I'm really not sure why he's so behind. They've alluded to learning differences, but we "popcorn read" out loud, so I know he's not bluffing on his reading level (reads probably 7/8th grade level). He can write short stories and such, and the grammar usage and punctuation is passable. His handwriting is horrible. I may suggest cursive or typing first. I forgot IEW has the intensives. I might have to look at those, although I generally don't care for their programs. As a jump start, it might be just the thing.

 

I have his younger sister as well. She's 8, I don't see any learning differences (picks everything up I teach her, though she would rather play, eat and do crafts), but conceptually, I had to start her with first grade math and handwriting. She does read at a second grade level. These kids came out of a private school. A very unschooly school, but their family paid for this?

 

I looked at a BCM book, but I think I need smaller bites for math. I'm really struggling to discover his level. He did better today with rounding, but he had never seen a bar graph and had no idea how to fill one in (on the MM 4 placement test.)

 

Is there a really gentle, inexpensive prealebra book I could work him through?

I think you are on the right track. It sounds like he does have some learning differences. Just because he reads at grade level does not mean he will be able to do grade level work quickly across the board and it could overwhelm him. We used Winston Grammar with my 11th grader when she was in 9th as a quick review. We never used anything after that. For writing, The Paragraph Book series is very good for kids with learning differences. You should be able to google it and find it. I will try to find a link. ETA: http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?seriesonly=2671M

 

For math, MEP is free online. They have a middle grades program, Years 7-9. Not sure how well it would work but since it is free, it would be worth looking at.

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I think you are on the right track. It sounds like he does have some learning differences. Just because he reads at grade level does not mean he will be able to do grade level work quickly across the board and it could overwhelm him. We used Winston Grammar with my 11th grader when she was in 9th as a quick review. We never used anything after that. For writing, The Paragraph Book series is very good for kids with learning differences. You should be able to google it and find it. I will try to find a link. ETA: http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/products/details.cfm?seriesonly=2671M

 

For math, MEP is free online. They have a middle grades program, Years 7-9. Not sure how well it would work but since it is free, it would be worth looking at.

 

How long will it take (approximately) to work through the first Paragraph Book? Should I order 1 and 2 at the same time?

 

Thanks!

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His handwriting is horrible. I may suggest cursive or typing first.

 

For cursive I would recommend  "Can Do Cursive" by Handwriting without Tears.  It is written for an older child and includes chapters on grammar, Greek, Latin  and writers notebook, after he gets the basics down.   It is a workbook and inexpensive.  

 

My older  ds started by using a whiteboard to practice and that worked really well.   The only thing I changed was to draw a little loop at the beginning of some of the  letters in the front of the book.  ( letters  u, c, a, d, g...)  which made it easier later when it came time to connecting them.   I think it is a fantastic book!

 

http://www.christianbook.com/can-cursive-student-workbook-grades-and/9781891627743/pd/498372

 

For typing there are some free websites.  We have used Krazy Keyboarding in the past and he liked it.  

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How long will it take (approximately) to work through the first Paragraph Book? Should I order 1 and 2 at the same time?

 

Thanks!

There are 8 lessons. CBD sells the series, too. There are also teacher books with them if you want them. I didn't get the teacher book, but would have liked to have the quizzes when we did it. I would give two weeks per chapter and just go slowly. So, I think 2 books a year would be reasonable. You could go faster, but I would rather make sure to not rush. I think ordering the first two would be fine, but just in case you are unsure of whether you will like it, maybe just order the first. The book is gentle but also really builds a child's skills IMO. Best wishes.:)
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I would assess his reading grade level and if he is not reading at a 12th grade level, work with him until he is. That will make all the other subjects go faster and better. Here is my testing page, give the NRRF grade level test and then the test for 8/ 10/ 12th grade level at the bottom of my testing page. If he is below 12th grade level, I would also give the MWIA level II test and the New Elizabethian test.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

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I would assess his reading grade level and if he is not reading at a 12th grade level, work with him until he is. That will make all the other subjects go faster and better. Here is my testing page, give the NRRF grade level test and then the test for 8/ 10/ 12th grade level at the bottom of my testing page. If he is below 12th grade level, I would also give the MWIA level II test and the New Elizabethian test.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

 

I do use Don Potter's page- I'm reviewing the times tables with some print-outs from there. I'll keep your assessment in mind- thanks!

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  • 2 months later...

Okay, I'm back. My eighth grader is wrapping up the first Paragraph Book. He went through it quickly along side Logic of English Cursive Writing program. It has done him a lot of good, but I definitely needed to use different topics (mostly non-fiction). He has come a long way with this book. He writes his final essay next week.

 

His spelling is at grade level, and his reading was good, but has become more fluent with our group literature read-aloud. His writing output is moderate to low, but has improved. I've had to teach him what a margin is for, so I'm still not assuming he knows anything. He thinks I'm teaching down to him, because he does a lot of creative writing, but his mechanics aren't at level yet.

 

Where should I go next? He is going to jump ship if I get Paragraph Book 2. Can I move onto 3? Look at something Killgallon? I would like to prepare him for public high school next year (I'd rather not teach him high school, but might consider just 9th grade). It's a small county public high school (one of the smallest in our state), so I think he'll get some personal attention, but I'd hate to see him go in a remedial program.

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Looking at the options, I do think I need to continue with the Paragraph Book. It's a really good series. Can anyone tell me if Miss Pebble is still in the second book? That seems to be a sticking point.

 

I have a copy of Warriner's course 3 (.25 book sale book) which he likes. I might start him on the sentence combining chapter for the time being.

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