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Another disturbing Target event last night... not about nursing though.


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Last night my six-year-old and I ran in Target to pick up some school supplies. As we walked back, I noticed a little boy about three lagging WAY behind his mom and older brother when he veered off into an isle to look at something. I almost stopped and told the mom, but them I figured that she had it under control and kept going. I sometimes feel like my safe boundaries with MY kids are far more tight than other people's are.

 

Well, about ten minutes later we were walking up to the front of the store when we hear two or three of the sales associates and the mom walking around calling the boy's name softly. You guessed it, the kid had gotten lost.

 

When I got to the front of the store, I asked the clerk if a little boy was missing/lost. She said yes that the mom had been up there a few minutes ago asking whether they had seen him. The child was found a few minutes after that.

 

Now, what has been bothering me ever since is that they never called a lock down. People were going in and out of the store the whole time and I, technically, could have grabbed that kid's hand and gone out the door with him and been miles away and they STILL would not have shut the doors.

 

What were they thinking! This was a Friday night, very busy and that kid was gone for at least 10 minutes. I'm very thankful that nothing did happen to the kid, but anyone could have grabbed him or he could have wandered out into the parking lot and been killed.

 

Uggh. I can't stop thinking about this. I might call the store on Monday and ask them whether it was an oversight or is a lockdown "Code Adam Style" not their policy.

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Our Target has a Code Adam system.

 

We were shopping there once when they had a lost child alert come through and every door in the store was locked and no one could come in or out until he was located. Employees came out of every nook and cranny .. the overhead music stopped playing. It was quite something to witness.

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It might not be the policy at every Target...but at this same Target store, they had a child molested by a stranger inside the store about a year or so ago ... so this Target store is more likely to be 'on their guard' for that reason. (They captured the guy with the help of the footage from the store security cameras).

 

Code Adam doesn't bother me at all. If it were MY child who had wandered away, I would want the doors shut until I found them!! (Thankfully, it's never happened)

 

My youngest is autistic and, should she ever wander away, it would be VERY bad, as she has the speech abilities of a 3 year old. She may be able to say her name and that's it....which is why we ALWAYS keep her in sight when we're out shopping!!

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I would not want to shop in a store that had a lockdown everytime a youngster wandered away from a parent who requested store personnel to assist in locating youngster.
I sure would! And it wouldn't be happening a huge amount of time! I'd help look even. But I'd much rather be a little inconvenienced than have someone run out of the store with an innocent child!
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My ds was 4 when we were in fry's and I could not find him. No one cared to helped me look for him and there was no lock down called. Just me and my older son walking around the store frantically looking for him. IT seemed like no one was taking me seriously.

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There may have been more going on that wasn't obvious. Target personnel are very discreet with their radio thingies. They're always talking to each other, and management, and stockers, and whoever, and you'd never know. They may have someone watching the doors. They may have had other employees looking, and communicating with each other. Just everyone wasn't running around in a panic, doesn't mean they weren't doing anything.

 

I don't know, of course, since I wasn't there. I'm just wondering if there was more going on that you couldn't see.

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There may have been more going on that wasn't obvious. Target personnel are very discreet with their radio thingies. They're always talking to each other, and management, and stockers, and whoever, and you'd never know. They may have someone watching the doors. They may have had other employees looking, and communicating with each other. Just everyone wasn't running around in a panic, doesn't mean they weren't doing anything.

 

I don't know, of course, since I wasn't there. I'm just wondering if there was more going on that you couldn't see.

 

That would be good, if they were doing that. Although I saw a show once about a kidnapper who put a stolen baby inside a shopping bag that zipped up, so she wasn't seen on camera leaving the grocery store with the baby. I think she drugged the baby first.

 

I shouldn't watch those shows! I'm paranoid enough.

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That would be good. If that was going on the cashier didn't know about it. I saw the mom when she came back to the other cashier after finding the kid and her only response was "Oh, did you find him?"

 

I did look to see if they had security or anyone watching the doors. If anyone was there, they were far, far away.

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Hmmmm. I'm glad it wasn't my little boy. :(

 

I was at Disneyland once, and saw a little girl, about 6yo, crying and obviously lost. I looked around and didn't see anyone that was obviously looking for a child, so I took her to two employees who were working at a kiosk nearby. Neither of them seemed to have a clue what they should do! That totally surprised me, as I would think that Disney employees would be well trained on lost child protocol. One of them took to little girl somewhere, but wasn't the least bit consoling to her. They just sort of took her by the hand, and pulled her along, crying the whole time. It broke my heart. I still see her face.

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Yeah, shopping with my 4 kids 18 yo, 15 yo, 14 to, 10 yo,and an extra friend 15yo in the mall. We separated (teens with cell phones) to shop, they would txt me and I would go in to the store they were to pay for their purchases. My 10 yo dd all the while with me. I had met up with the 14 yo dd to pay for her purchases and she left to go to the shoe store a couple of stores over when I needed her clarification on the purchase and sent my 10 yo dd to get her. I didn't look the way she went ( I assumed she knew where the shoe store was) Well, you guessed it, she went the wrong way! After too many minutes into my 14 yo dd not returning I went to see and called security, the guy walked a t a LARGO tempo my way and I immediately said call a code adam. He never did! he slowly went looking around for her... It was so scary and frustrating. we found her after she had walked the length of the mall and back - not having a single clue she had been a missing child!

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I wouldn't wait, I'd want a shut down immediately! I've heard too much, seen too much (on the news, etc) to wait. All someone would need is that one minute, or two, or ten, and that child would be gone, and that is it, you don't get another chance. Who cares who is inconvenienced, and how many times? This is much, much more important.

 

I was in a park with my dd when she was three and my sis and her hubby were there--we were sitting at a park bench and dd was behind me, playing. My sis and her hubby were facing her, and I asked if they could keep an eye on her, so I wouldn't have to turn around, and they said "sure". They weren't, and I said something, then turned around, and my sis said something snide. A guy at the next table, leaned over, said he was an off duty cop, there with his kids, and said, to my sis, that she obviously had no kids (she didn't). He told her that, if you can't see your child for one minute, that is one minute too long. Especially in a crowded place, like a park with lots of kids, or a store, someone can disappear with your child in less than 30 seconds.

 

It terrified me, but made me feel justified in the paranoia I have always felt, having grown up in NYC. I still don't let my dd, 9, get out of my sight range, unless it is just ahead, and I mean JUST AHEAD. I have always said, if people were as careful with their kids as they are with their purses, it would be a different world. Think about it--would you leave your purse in your cart and walk away a few aisles? Never! But I see women do it with their babies all the time.

 

You know, it isn't that there are people, everywhere, waiting to snatch kids. It is that there are a few nuts out there, waiting to snatch kids, and, unfortunately, there are opportunities everywhere. That woman who wasn't paying attention to her child in Target was one of them. She was just lucky they found him.

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Well, I learned something today. I had no idea what the "Code Adam" signs on the doors of Wal-mart meant. I'm glad I know now. If it had ever happened I'd be pretty ticked that I couldn't leave when I wanted to. Knowing my temper, probably to the point that I'd be given what-for by management. LOL

 

Now that I know I will be able to easily keep my temper in check. It is for a great cause.

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Last night my six-year-old and I ran in Target to pick up some school supplies. As we walked back, I noticed a little boy about three lagging WAY behind his mom and older brother when he veered off into an isle to look at something. I almost stopped and told the mom, but them I figured that she had it under control and kept going...

 

Now, what has been bothering me ever since is that they never called a lock down...

 

... I'm very thankful that nothing did happen to the kid, but anyone could have grabbed him or he could have wandered out into the parking lot and been killed.

 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this. One one hand, I think the woman should have been watching her 3 yo a little better. Why should everyone be inconvenienced because she was not paying attention? (I know it's not always really the parent's fault, but it sound like in this case the woman was not paying attention.)

 

On the other hand, abuse can happen so quickly- someone can lure a child into a bathroom and ... well, you know where this can go.

 

I think if a store is going to call a Code Adam, they need to do so immediately, not look around for 5-10 minutes and then call it. 5 minutes is enough time for someone to get out of the store.

 

I also think one employee should be stationed at the front door inspecting bags so people can leave, albeit more slowly than usual.

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When is it not the parents' fault when their child gets 'lost' in the store? If I had a cart full of groceries....and couldn't leave until little Jimmy was found...well I wouldn't be too happy. I am being inconvenienced because someone can't watch their children in the store.

 

Tammy

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Hmmmm. I'm glad it wasn't my little boy. :(

 

I was at Disneyland once, and saw a little girl, about 6yo, crying and obviously lost. I looked around and didn't see anyone that was obviously looking for a child, so I took her to two employees who were working at a kiosk nearby. Neither of them seemed to have a clue what they should do! That totally surprised me, as I would think that Disney employees would be well trained on lost child protocol. One of them took to little girl somewhere, but wasn't the least bit consoling to her. They just sort of took her by the hand, and pulled her along, crying the whole time. It broke my heart. I still see her face.

 

The same son who caused the Code Adam also got lost at Disney World. (Blizzard Beach to be exact. It's not my fault, this kid really needed a leash :lol:) Anyway, they were great there, had a protocol that they followed, all was well. I was crying, he was coloring pictures with a cast member.

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...I also think one employee should be stationed at the front door inspecting bags so people can leave, albeit more slowly than usual.

 

I would bristle at having my bags searched like a common criminal because of a parent's negligence. And I know what it is like to have one that is prone to wandering off. The decision we made was to not take her into a large store or other crowded situation unless we could carry her the entire time or have her on a lead. Thus, she was about 8 with a strong understanding of safety rules before she could accompany us to a store. Also, it meant that we paid more for toiletries and other items because we bought them from the independent grocery instead of a large discounter or that we had to make arrangements for one parent to stay home while other made the Target trip. That's life. We just would not expect commerce to frequently and regularly come to a standstill because a parent failed to make sure their children were with them.

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See, that's what should have happened! But they were all standing around like they didn't know what to do. And since I saw the child, I *know* he was missing for more than enough time for the store to lockdown.

 

The store should have done that, but the mother should have realized her child was missing a whole lot sooner. I do have kids that loved to wander at 3, so it's not like my kids all trotted along easily beside me.

 

When I see something like that I now feel free to say, "Excuse me, is he/she with you?" So far, no one's ever been offended, but glad to know (or angry with their child.)

 

As for strictness on location, I expect all my dc, except my 13 yo, to hold on to the sides of the cart so I can see them. Not that my 10 yo likes it one bit, so she'll lean casually with her elbow or try to wander off lately, but that's my rule. If I can't see them all at the same time, I don't like it. I'm not really worried that someone will snatch them anymore, as that's extremely rare, but I do like to ensure that they're not messing around or at risk in the very, very off chance that someone is lurking in the store. When they were all little, they all rode in carts (I can "drive" 2 carts with those extra seats attached through the store like nobody's business--and even do it with one in a back carrier--mine liked to go all over the place, and I needed to shop, not discipline them nonstop. I only have 3, but it worked better if they each had their own seat--feisty, strong willed kids.) Call me "Mean Mom" if you dare--my dc have.

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On the other hand, abuse can happen so quickly- someone can lure a child into a bathroom and ... well, you know where this can go.

 

I think if a store is going to call a Code Adam, they need to do so immediately, not look around for 5-10 minutes and then call it. 5 minutes is enough time for someone to get out of the store.

.

 

It should be PRONTO. There was a case in Canada (I think--my mother told me the story) where a woman turned her back for just a second (that's all it takes, btw), they called a lock down, found the girl within a few minutes, and the kidnapper had already shaved her dd's head & changed her clothes. You have to be sharp, sharp, sharp, even with 8 yo dc who think that they know karate.

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I would bristle at having my bags searched like a common criminal because of a parent's negligence. .

 

But it isn't ALWAY their negligence. In this case, it was, but if someone has several children and turns their back for just a moment, that can be all it takes. The story I told in my previous post isn't the only case of it happening in a moment because of a watchful kidnapper. And, anyway, the wait isn't for the negligent parent, it's for the child. Most three yo's don't have tons of common sense yet, and 3 is when most kids start to show more independence and are prone wander off, or leave the house (sometimes with no clothes on, right?) without telling anyone, etc.

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I would bristle at having my bags searched like a common criminal because of a parent's negligence. And I know what it is like to have one that is prone to wandering off. The decision we made was to not take her into a large store or other crowded situation unless we could carry her the entire time or have her on a lead. Thus, she was about 8 with a strong understanding of safety rules before she could accompany us to a store. Also, it meant that we paid more for toiletries and other items because we bought them from the independent grocery instead of a large discounter or that we had to make arrangements for one parent to stay home while other made the Target trip. That's life. We just would not expect commerce to frequently and regularly come to a standstill because a parent failed to make sure their children were with them.

 

In general, I COMPLETELY agree with you. Let me also say that I greatly appreciate you making the choice to keep your child home until she would stay with you.

 

However, I am thinking of the extreme, real-emergency situations that are extremely rare. Let's say a mom has a child that sometimes tends to wander away, so she is keeping the eagle-eye on him. However, she did come to Target to shop and she is reading labels trying to decide which shampoo to buy. Child wanders 6 feet away, stranger lures him further afield. Mom notices 10 seconds later, and starts looking for child- but the stranger already has him heading for the exit. (I'm just making this up, btw.)

 

In these type of cases, I can understand putting a store into lockdown. But we never know when this is the case, and when the parent was completely ignoring the child for 15 minutes- which is frankly the more common occurence. Is it worth the inconvenience to everyone to lock down a store every time a child goes missing? I don't know. But if the store waits 15 minutes before instigating lockdown, I think it's a waste of time. If there is foul play, the perpetrator is long gone. If there's not foul play, we're just catering to a parent who didn't bother to keep track of her child.

 

I wouldn't want to be searched like a common criminal either. But they would only have to search bags that were big enough for a child to fit into. But I'd rather have the option of leaving with a bag search than being held captive in a store.

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Yes it isn't always negligence. I am the mother who won't let her 7 year old son go into the men's restroom by himself, I take him into the women's one with me. He is not allowed to leave my side AT ALL. My son was 7 when we were shopping at Walmart one one time and I was looking in the refrigerator for my favorite rice milk, they had moved it so it took me a moment. When I turned around my son was nowhere in sight. I went to the next isle and next and the next, my heart started racing and I was calling for him very loudly. I was just about to tell one of the employees when I heard over the loud speaker " Will MY NAME please come to the # 2 checkout counter". I had always told him if he got seperated from me to go to the front desk and tell them he was lost. That is what he did. He went straight to the check out and told them. Oh course he was mad at me for letting him get lost......:001_smile: Apparently when I stopped and poked my head into the refrigerator he did not notice I stopped and kept on walking. So it can happen to the best of us.

 

I would not care if they searched my bags or if they called a lock down. I would rather them "inconvenience" a few people than have a kidnapped or dead child on my conscience because I did not have the time for it.

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... I wouldn't want to be searched like a common criminal either. But they would only have to search bags that were big enough for a child to fit into. But I'd rather have the option of leaving with a bag search than being held captive in a store.

 

Don't searches without the subject's consent require probable cause?

 

Doesn't being held captive in a store constitute false imprisonment?

 

I guess the probable cause would be that each shopper exiting store with shopping bags big enough to conceal infant or toddler is suspected of kidnapping? A baby could easily fit into a regular sized Target bag.

 

While child abduction by stranger is rare and horrible, something does not feel right to me about having to prove innocence.

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Don't searches without the subject's consent require probable cause?

 

Doesn't being held captive in a store constitute false imprisonment?

 

I think so. However, in my area adults were locked down in public buildings during a Tordado Warning. "They" do want to tell us what to do for our own safety and the safety of others.

 

I guess the probable cause would be that each shopper exiting store with shopping bags big enough to conceal infant or toddler is suspected of kidnapping? A baby could easily fit into a regular sized Target bag.

 

While child abduction by stranger is rare and horrible, something does not feel right to me about having to prove innocence.

 

I feel the same way. But I know I would have trouble telling a parent whose child was really abducted that I didn't think the store should be locked down, and I didn't want my bag searched.

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Don't searches without the subject's consent require probable cause?

 

Doesn't being held captive in a store constitute false imprisonment?

 

I guess the probable cause would be that each shopper exiting store with shopping bags big enough to conceal infant or toddler is suspected of kidnapping? A baby could easily fit into a regular sized Target bag.

 

While child abduction by stranger is rare and horrible, something does not feel right to me about having to prove innocence.

 

And if it was your child missing, and a person doesn't want to have their bag searched, how would you feel? Would you wonder if your child was in that bag? And yes, they could be, unconscious, and looking like a blanket, wad of clothing, etc.

 

Yeah, a BIG inconvenience, but if it's a matter of a child safely returned to his mom, I certainly wouldn't argue. (For that matter, Sam's already checks your cart before you leave.)

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Ugh. You are right that store. should have been in lock down. I used to work for Macy's and they were very proud of how fast they could lock down a store in this situation: 2 minutes. Our whole mall would only take 3 minutes.

We once had a missing child. Macy's was locked down in 2 minutes and then the mall within 3 minutes. 4 minutes later they found the child upstairs in the lady's restroom with somone else. His cloths were changed and his hair dyed. 4 minutes that is all it takes.

 

Target is a hunting ground for pedophiles. I am not blaming Target. It is not their fault.

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I still say it is negligence....if you have several children...it is still your responsibility to watch them. If you can't...then leave them home....or put them in the cart....or whatever it takes to keep them with you. If one wandered off and broke something.....is that not your fault because you were reading a label?

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An adult is free to leave a public building during a tornado if they are foolish enough to do so. This happened at the St Louis Science Center this past summer. They can advise the person to stay inside but cannot force them to do so. The museum workers do not have police powers. A retailer can detain a shopper suspected of shoplifting. I am not familiar enough with law to know what other circumstances allow detention.

 

Like Costco, Sam's does not use shopping bags. The items are in open view in cart.

 

How would I feel if an adult would not consent to having shopping bag searched while my child was lost? Unfortunate but that shopper is within his rights unless there is pc.

 

Also, when a parent loses their own children, they almost never think it is because of their own negligence or oversight. However, when a stranger loses sight of his/her child, that same parent views the stranger as not exercising due diligence.

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What you all say about unlawful search (though I would assume that you would have to consent) and false imprisonment is probably true, but it seems, to me, to place the letter of the law over child safety.

 

I guess when there is a possibility of a child in danger, you would hope, as a parent that other adults would give up their rights voluntarily, rather than make a stink about it.

 

Yes, it was the parent's fault that this child got lost, but refusing to cooperate with a search would seem to be punishing the parent at the child's expense. Help me find my kid first and then report me to social services for negligence, you know?

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... However, I am thinking of the extreme, real-emergency situations that are extremely rare. ...

 

I guess I still do not understand under what circumstances Code Adam is put into action. How common an occurrence is it?

 

I seldom go anywhere but grocery, so I am not familiar with big box retailers.

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Honestly, this is the only time I have ever been in a store when I think they should have called one. And I lose my kids for a millisecond all the time.

 

I think I felt so strongly because I *know* exactly how long this kid was gone. It was a long time. Maybe the parent didn't realize that he was gone for a while after that, but he was gone for a long time. Long enough so that I thought, "they should have found him by now if nothing is wrong."

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I would hate to think I could ever be so busy that I wouuld feel inconvenienced to look for a child or wait a few minutes while a lost one is found. I remeber year ago when the bradley sisters disappeared in Chicago. In my opinion their mother was negligent leaving them home alone and letting them leave the house. It didn't stop me from joining the police and other volunteers for a few days of handing out flyers about the girls and walking the areas they could have been. I never once felt inconvenienced. I only felt it was the right thing to do. We never found the girls.

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Let me also say that I greatly appreciate you making the choice to keep your child home until she would stay with you.

.

 

For some of us, that was not possible! I always take the high road and assume that any mother who is obviously trying to keep her kids with her had NO ONE to watch them at home or had to take them to some appointment and is trying to save gas, etc, and pick up something on the way back. And not everyone should have to drag their exhausted selves to the store after their kids go to bed, nor can every spouse be there to watch those kids because they're working so many hours. However, I'm also shocked and horrified everytime I see some toddler standing in a shopping cart where the goods are supposed to go. I'm a firm believer in using those seat belts.

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Don't searches without the subject's consent require probable cause?

 

Doesn't being held captive in a store constitute false imprisonment?

 

I guess the probable cause would be that each shopper exiting store with shopping bags big enough to conceal infant or toddler is suspected of kidnapping? A baby could easily fit into a regular sized Target bag.

 

While child abduction by stranger is rare and horrible, something does not feel right to me about having to prove innocence.

 

Yes, this is all slippery ground. Whose rights are the most important, those of the missing child or that of a customer? Which laws are being upheld or violated? If done consistently, could Code Adam become an effective deterrent to snatching children and babies in stores? Why do we let known child molesters back out, when it's been shown time after time that they don't rehabilitate, so we simply post their pictures. Whose rights are being violated then?

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What you all say about unlawful search (though I would assume that you would have to consent) and false imprisonment is probably true, but it seems, to me, to place the letter of the law over child safety.

 

I guess when there is a possibility of a child in danger, you would hope, as a parent that other adults would give up their rights voluntarily, rather than make a stink about it.

 

Yes, it was the parent's fault that this child got lost, but refusing to cooperate with a search would seem to be punishing the parent at the child's expense. Help me find my kid first and then report me to social services for negligence, you know?

 

Yes I agree! I would give up my rights voluntarily and help look for the child.

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For the poster who said it shouldnt inconvenience the whole store....how in the world is it an inconvenience?

 

They lock the doors and associates look around. Usually the child is found within minutes. I know when there has been one in stores before when I was there, I took my cart and kid and helped look. As a mother myself, I think its the right thing to do.

 

Nothing I went in to buy is so important that it will trump a lost child. If I cant give up two minutes of my shopping time, then I would find myself to be a pretty callous individual. If it were my child, I sure wouldnt want people thinking of it as an inconvenience. In all the Code Adam's I have seen, no one has searched bags or carts---they simply looked in racks, in dressing rooms, etc for a lost child.

 

 

Absolutely! I was in Walmart a few months ago and they called a code adam and described what the boy was wearing. I gladly helped them search for the child. But it only took a couple of minutes for them to find him. It just "inconvenienced" people for all of 2 minutes.

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So, the parent is negligent? Should the child pay for that? The parent turns around, the child wanders down the aisle, maybe still in sight of the parent's back, and is then lured by a pedophile. Well, tough noogies for said child. The parent was negligent, so we're NOT willing to help find them. The child can suffer because of their PARENT'S guilt, and next time, I'll hope adn pray that the pedophile doens't fine MY child, because God knows I'm NOT perfect, and the girls have been out of my line of vision. Within 10 feet of me, but where I cannot see them. And anyone could grab/lure them away.

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I would have demanded them to do a lockdown if I were that mother. :glare:

 

 

For the poster who said it shouldnt inconvenience the whole store....how in the world is it an inconvenience?

 

I am also not sure why that particular Targer didn't do a lockdown. I don't care if this is an everyday occurance, still should have locked it down until the child was found. I rather be inconvience in the store if a child was lost. I once lost my autistic dd in a store but found her within seconds so I didn't have to go report it. If I couldn't get her to come out with me calling for her I would have walked up to the front cashiers and demand them to lock down the store because I can't find my child.

 

I gladly would be inconvenienced for that child!!

 

I am glad the child was found but that Target store was negilent in being vigilent on locking down the store.

 

Holly

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