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teeniebeenie6

Shocked that this book is on the Grade 11 common core reading list. Scary!

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I also take exception to snowflakes not reading this. I don't know anyone other than my dh who treats me like a snowflake. And I don't consider any of my kids snowflakes either. They know rape, incest and such exists. That doesn't mean they need a detailed visualization accounting of it.

Exactly! NO ONE needs to read that to understand a story, the rest of the book may be worth reading but this one paragraph ruins the rest of it.

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You're right, I haven't read the book and I am most assuredly ignorant. However, does it or does it not contain a graphic description of an adult raping a child? If it does then I think we have some right to say that that is not something we want our children to read, and also something that we find hard to see any value in. The rest of the book may be powerful and enlightening but the fact of the matter is, it seems to contain a graphic description of an adult raping a child. The language used in the excerpt I've seen does not imply horror at the act. Maybe the rest of the book does, but to me that does not excuse it. Go ahead, call me ignorant, I can take it, I am merely expressing my opinion. I can think of many worthwhile books to read without having to read a graphic description of child rape.

 

I don't think you are ignorant. You have chosen to not include this type of writing into your child's curriculum. That is what you should do.

 

My question is, do you (or anyone else on the thread) think that all books that contain similar language should be outright banned or just banned from K-12 reading lists?

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So, in all seriousness, for people who think this book is pornography, would never read it, would never allow their children to read it... what's your take on Lolita?  A book which often tops the lists of best books ever written?  The entire book is told from the point of view of the predator.  Part of what makes it so creepy and disturbing is how the protagonist totally glosses over and minimizes his predatory and violent actions... so it's kind of the opposite end of the same stick in that regard.  Are you discounting the literary merit of Lolita? 

 

I've never read it but if it comes with the details of abusing a child, what is the point in it? What value coul;d anyone get from it? Maybe an FBI profilier to understand the perversion that is in someones mind when they do these things but what could YOU get from reading something like that? Why is this something anyone, YOU, would want to read? Do you want to know what someone who rapes a child is thinking, feeling? What on earth FOR??

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I don't think you are ignorant. You have chosen to not include this type of writing into your child's curriculum. That is what you should do.

 

My question is, do you (or anyone else on the thread) think that all books that contain similar language should be outright banned or just banned from K-12 reading lists?

 

 

The language is not the issue. The fact that it's making a pedophile's thoughts and feelings seem as common and acceptable and NORMAL is what is wrong.

What KIND of a reading list should include a book like that??

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The language is not the issue. The fact that it's making a pedophile's thoughts and feelings seem as common and acceptable and NORMAL is what is wrong.

What KIND of a reading list should include a book like that??

 

Just because the book is written from the abuser's point of view does not make their actions seem NORMAL. It actually points out the deranged thought process of the abuser.  The pedophile is NOT glorified.

 

That is why I wanted to note the difference between the language used and the content. If I choose to use such a book with my child I would use excerpts that don't include the passages noted in the blog BUT the theme of the book is an important one.

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I don't think you are ignorant. You have chosen to not include this type of writing into your child's curriculum. That is what you should do.

 

My question is, do you (or anyone else on the thread) think that all books that contain similar language should be outright banned or just banned from K-12 reading lists?

IMO, I don't think many kids K-12 are ready for this sort of thing, but that is what I gather from interacting with local ps teens. I'm glad that there are people out there who can read these things and who can deal with it. Personally, I can't. A former co-worker of dh's is currently serving a 45 year sentence for raping his step-daughter and step-son, with the blessing of their own mother,I might add. When I see stuff like this, I can't handle it. I can't deal with it. We hung out at his house several times. He had been to our home, hung around our kids. It's very, very hard for me to imagine teenagers are capable of processing such graphic, from the POV of the perv, descriptions a mature, worthwhile way. Those types of teens would be the exception, I imagine, not the rule. So I have no problem with communities saying, hey, let's just nix this book. There are plenty of amazing works of literature to choose from. I don't think it should be banned altogether. I've never read it but I'm sure it is powerful and written very well and explores issues worth discussing. I think though that when a school/teacher/whatever wants to give this to minor children to read, the burden is on them to prove that the benefits outweigh the ugliness and the emotional burden they are placing on kids, not the other way around.

 

ETA: My dh coaches baseball at a local high school. He has kids that get suspended from baseball for two weeks because they are failing classes like Ceramics. Ceramics! Not because they aren't capable of making something, but because they can't be bothered to even show up for class. The other coaches say that all the teachers there would be happy to help the kids or even just pass them but when the kids don't even show up for class, the teachers have to fail them. These are the kids I guess I'm picturing being in these lit classes. I mean, if they can't even be bothered to show up for Ceramics, why do we think they will suddenly be capable of discussing such serious issues? I guess I'm not being fair to other kids but that's what I imagine. Lol

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IMO, I don't think many kids K-12 are ready for this sort of thing, but that is what I gather from interacting with local ps teens. I'm glad that there are people out there who can read these things and who can deal with it. Personally, I can't. A former co-worker of dh's is currently serving a 45 year sentence for raping his step-daughter and step-son, with the blessing of their own mother,I might add. When I see stuff like this, I can't handle it. I can't deal with it. We hung out at his house several times. He had been to our home, hung around our kids. It's very, very hard for me to imagine teenagers are capable of processing such graphic, from the POV of the perv, descriptions a mature, worthwhile way. Those types of teens would be the exception, I imagine, not the rule. So I have no problem with communities saying, hey, let's just nix this book. There are plenty of amazing works of literature to choose from. I don't think it should be banned altogether. I've never read it but I'm sure it is powerful and written very well and explores issues worth discussing. I think though that when a school/teacher/whatever wants to give this to minor children to read, the burden is on them to prove that the benefits outweigh the ugliness and the emotional burden they are placing on kids, not the other way around.

 

In retrospect, I should have said high school aged kids. Definitely not K-8.

 

I also agree 100% with the bolded part.

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In retrospect, I should have said high school aged kids. Definitely not K-8.

 

I also agree 100% with the bolded part.

The cc recommendation is in 11 th grade, I believe. It's definitely not before high school.

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I am still waiting for an answer as to what actual benefit or value there is in depicting criminal sexual acts against a child in an explicit way, rather than keeping the story line and exploring the themes in a less graphic manner. I would expect a solid answer to that in regard to any quality piece of literature. Anyone???

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Is it to somehow humanise the act and somehow elicit sympathy for the pedophile - this to me is most disturbing of all. What are we trying to do - make pedophilia another lifestyle choice that we must all accept as a personal preference that can not be questioned. 

 

The language is not the issue. The fact that it's making a pedophile's thoughts and feelings seem as common and acceptable and NORMAL is what is wrong. What KIND of a reading list should include a book like that??

 

This is not about sex, it's about abuse!  But the writer has turned this into a sex act with a child and has made it sound ok, appealing to some people. There are even groups of people dedicated to thing's like this, promoting sex with children, and that's ok?????? Since when? Why? How is this ok with anyone??

Maybe as a woman who was abused this way as a child I see this for the evil it is. For those who think this book is "literature" what if a so-called man was thinking this way about YOUR child? Would it still be "literature" and worth reading???

 

No, neither Morrison nor Nabokov is trying to "normalize" pedophilia, or make it sound "appealing" to people. :rolleyes: Portraying human emotions and motivations, including the ability of people to rationalize things that they know on some level are wrong, does NOT mean that the author is celebrating or normalizing the behavior.  

 

It is a FACT that many pedophiles, especially those who are close to their victims, rationalize their actions by telling themselves that what they are doing is an act of love. You only have to look at the Sandusky case to see real-life evidence of that — he wrote letters expressing his love and hurt that one boy had "rejected" him. The fact that Sandusky, and those like him, not only do NOT see themselves as monsters, but actually see themselves as victims, is critical to understanding how these things happen.

 

As for whether I would consider it "literature" if I imagined it happening to my child — it happened to me. Although I wasn't raped, and it wasn't by my father, I was sexually abused as a child by a relative who repeatedly told me he "loved" me and "would never hurt me." Yet I'm still capable of understanding that The Bluest Eye and Lolita are powerful works of literature — not porn, not trash, and not something only "sick" people "with serious problems" would ever want to read. 

 

Jackie

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I am still waiting for an answer as to what actual benefit or value there is in depicting criminal sexual acts against a child in an explicit way, rather than keeping the story line and exploring the themes in a less graphic manner. I would expect a solid answer to that in regard to any quality piece of literature. Anyone???

 

What is "unnecessarily explicit" to one reader may constitute "critically important details" to another. You, and several others, have made it quite clear that you do not believe that there is ANY justification, ever, for explicit scenes of that nature, so what's the point in trying to bait people into justifying it?

 

The only opinion that really matters is the author's — and she clearly felt that those scenes needed to be written the way they were. As soon as you get appointed Czar of American Literature, you can decide what is or isn't "beneficial" or "valuable" in every author's work. Until then, if you don't want to read it, then don't. If you don't want your kids reading it, don't let them.

 

Jackie

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I am still waiting for an answer as to what actual benefit or value there is in depicting criminal sexual acts against a child in an explicit way, rather than keeping the story line and exploring the themes in a less graphic manner. I would expect a solid answer to that in regard to any quality piece of literature. Anyone???

 

The value IS the explicit way it is presented.

 

By showing the thought process of the pedophile, Morrison is showing just how depraved the abuser is. No "normal" person thinks that way and are themselves sick. Incest and abuse are issues that were not always talked about or addressed. Her book reflects that issue from an unconventional point of view as most of her works do.

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What is "unnecessarily explicit" to one reader may constitute "critically important details" to another. You, and several others, have made it quite clear that you do not believe that there is ANY justification, ever, for explicit scenes of that nature, so what's the point in trying to bait people into justifying it?

 

The only opinion that really matters is the author's — and she clearly felt that those scenes needed to be written the way they were. As soon as you get appointed Czar of American Literature, you can decide what is or isn't "beneficial" or "valuable" in every author's work. Until then, if you don't want to read it, then don't. If you don't want your kids reading it, don't let them.

 

Jackie

 

I understand that standards of morality are subjective in our society, and that people are going to disagree about what is appropriate and/or acceptable. I asked why someone would consider those explicit depictions to be what you referred to as "critically important details". Admittedly, it is so far outside my frame of reference that I can't wrap my head around it, and I sincerely wanted to know, whether or not I end up agreeing with it. I wasn't "baiting" anyone, and I haven't attacked anyone, nor posted anything ugly or critical, nor proclaimed myself to be the czar of anything. I am willing to concede that, from a purely literary standpoint, there may be some justification for it from the author's point of view, but NO ONE has answered that particular question, including you. Do you have an answer, besides "the author thought it was important"?? Of course she did, and I would expect her to, as a Pulitzer Prize-winning author. But that's not what I asked.

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I'm pretty sure the Bluest Eye was Morrison's first novel. It didn't win a Pulitzer or any other major prize that I know of.

 

Morrison won the Pulitzer in 1988 for Beloved, 18 years after she wrote TBE.

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That was one of several questionable books we read in my 12th grade honors English course on "multicultural lit". I don't know why the teacher didn't have us read actual literary classics from non-European cultures like my freshman year of college Great Books course did.

 

I wouldn't necessarily ban my kids from reading Toni Morrison in 11th or 12th grade but I certainly wouldn't assign those novels either.

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I have an 18 yo and a 20 yo and I would not want them reading this! I'm 41 and wouldn't read this. It's beyond disgusting! 

It's not literature, having readers sympathize with a child abuser, especially "this" kind of abuse is so horribly wrong, I can't understand how anyone can defend it. 

I bet if someone wrote this about a dog the outcry would be unstoppable but writing this about a human child is ok?!?!?!

 

What about Mumu, by Turgenev? There are lovely and valuable stories that involve awful things happening to dogs.

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Also, I'm vaguely reaching back here, but isn't The Color Purple also about incest?

 

Incest! Incest for all! Read more books about incest. You know you want to.

 

I've read about 7/10 of those incests.

 

But clearly...  Let's take Oedipus off the syllabus!  Down with Pericles!  No more Ovid!  ;)

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No, neither Morrison nor Nabokov are trying to "normalize" pedophilia, or make it sound "appealing" to people. :rolleyes: Portraying human emotions and motivations, including the ability of people to rationalize things that they know on some level are wrong, does NOT mean that the author is celebrating or normalizing the behavior.  

 

It is a FACT that many pedophiles, especially those who are close to their victims, rationalize their actions by telling themselves that what they are doing is an act of love. You only have to look at the Sandusky case to see real-life evidence of that — he wrote letters expressing his love and hurt that one boy had "rejected" him. The fact that Sandusky, and those like him, not only do NOT see themselves as monsters, but actually see themselves as victims, is critical to understanding how these things happen.

 

And for whether I would consider it "literature" if I imagined it happening to my child — it happened to me. Although I wasn't raped, and it wasn't by my father, I was sexually abused as a child by a relative who repeatedly told me he "loved" me and "would never hurt me." Yet I'm still capable of understanding that The Bluest Eye and Lolita are powerful works of literature — not porn, not trash, and not something only "sick" people "with serious problems" would ever want to read. 

 

Jackie

 

The subject of the book is not the problem. It's the detailed description of abusive acts toward a child that is the problem. As a survivor of this, how would feel about reading the thoughts of your abuser and having someone call that "literature?" As a survivor myself, I am completely disgusted.

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Also, I'm vaguely reaching back here, but isn't The Color Purple also about incest?

 

Incest! Incest for all! Read more books about incest. You know you want to.

I've read The Color Purple and its been quite awhile but I don't recall anything nearly as disturbing as that one paragraph from The Bluest Eye. 

Again, it's not the subject of the book. I'm aware I've only stated that about 10 times.

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Yes, it is explicit. No, it is not nice. Realistically, by high school, kids (even the special snowflakes) have seen and heard much worse. At least this has a point and is well written.

I beg to differ-- this is absolutely untrue. I have never before read such filth as the excerpts from that book. I have many times had to stop books partway through because of inappropriate content, but I've never encountered anything as bad as that, and especially not in high school.

 

Why do people think that intermingling something good and worthwhile with filth excuses the filth, instead of degrading and dirtying that which would otherwise have been good?

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It causes sexual excitement for pedophiles.

 

So is it OK for gay men to write sexually explicit material about a man and a woman because it is "not intending" to excite them personally? That should be allowed and not considered porn, but if a straight person was to write it then its porn because it was intended to cause sexual excitement?

 

Maybe he didn't "intend" for this book to do those things but IT DOES for some people. And therefore is porn

 

Your logic is simply terrible.

 

A pedophile can be aroused by children in a Wal-Mart ad.  Does that mean Wal Mart is publishing pornography?

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In no way shape or form is explicit incest and child rape scenes a work of literature. I am side stepping nothing. He could have wrote the book without the detail. The detail never needs written or read to understand anything. 

 

He?  Wow.

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The value IS the explicit way it is presented.

 

By showing the thought process of the pedophile, Morrison is showing just how depraved the abuser is. No "normal" person thinks that way and are themselves sick. Incest and abuse are issues that were not always talked about or addressed. Her book reflects that issue from an unconventional point of view as most of her works do.

This.

 

This idea that we should never "allow" students to read objectionable material is the impetus behind book banning. If you go down the list of banned and challenged books you'll find that we shouldn't read books because they describe racism, use language others are sensitive to, etc. The idea being that there are some things so terrible that no one should ever read those books because of a paragraph or a section, etc.

 

I haven't read the book in question, but I don't have a problem with reading it, nor would I have an issue with my son or daughter being assigned it in 11th or 12th grade. It's Toni Morrison not a promotional piece. It's not porn or trashy. It makes people here uncomfortable, I appreciate that, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

As for the value? Sometimes we learn the most when we see things from a different perspective. Sometimes the greatest impact is made when we are fa out of our comfort zone. Sometimes discomfort is the way through to truth. Life is not all roses, sunshine, and butterflies. Not every great work of literature is G-rated.

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I've never read it but if it comes with the details of abusing a child, what is the point in it? What value coul;d anyone get from it? Maybe an FBI profilier to understand the perversion that is in someones mind when they do these things but what could YOU get from reading something like that? Why is this something anyone, YOU, would want to read? Do you want to know what someone who rapes a child is thinking, feeling? What on earth FOR??

 

What literature *do* you teach your kids in high school? And if they are college-bound, what do you expect them to read in college literature courses? I cannot imagine what a Great Books reading list would look like if it were expunged of every volume that contained "unnecessarily explicit" descriptions of horrific deeds, from rape to murder to suicide to incest. And I mean explicit...literature is rife with details of skulls crunching and blood spewing and vomit retching and organs penetrating and drugs altering experience. Literature is about life, and life can be messy.

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Great literature often deals with extremes... extreme love, extreme hate, extreme poverty, extreme wealth, extreme ambition, extreme illness.  By looking at the extremes of the human experience, we can better understand ourselves and others.  Nobody thinks that they are a monster (ETA: look at Ariel Castro, standing up and telling the court how happy his victims were, how they enjoyed sex with him, how he's really going to miss his daughter).  When confronted with someone who quite objectively is, but who clearly tells the reader that they are not, we grow empathy and can learn to understand, analyze and perhaps even recognize the wide variety of people and experiences that walk this green earth. 

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What literature *do* you teach your kids in high school? And if they are college-bound, what do you expect them to read in college literature courses? I cannot imagine what a Great Books reading list would look like if it were expunged of every volume that contained "unnecessarily explicit" descriptions of horrific deeds, from rape to murder to suicide to incest. And I mean explicit...literature is rife with details of skulls crunching and blood spewing and vomit retching and organs penetrating and drugs altering experience. Literature is about life, and life can be messy.

 

Even earlier in this thread someone gave examples of more appropriate books: Of Mice and Men, The Crucible, and The Great Gatsby.  All books which have their share of sex, violence, and morally reprehensible characters who destroy the life of other people.

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It makes people here uncomfortable, I appreciate that, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

There is a large segment of society that believes anything they personally don't like is bad, wrong, and not ok for anyone.

 

In a recent thread I mentioned that I hated the book Bridge to Terabithia and found it bizarre and icky for kids. I stated I would not subject my children to reading it. But I recognize that something that I personally don't like isn't necessarily wrong for other people, and if someone has their kid read it because they feel it has a redeeming value, I'm not going to raise a stink and demand they stick to my personal opinion or state that their morals are loose.

 

There was also a statement made about what types of images "healthy minds" should not contain. I find that ridiculous. Mental health is not determined by the content of the mind but by how well the content is processed.

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That isn't a book I would read, it isn't a book that my dh would be ok with me reading or my kids reading, I certainly wouldn't allow it in our house. That is porn. When sex is spelled out that explicitly, it's porn. The only thing missing is pictures for the visually inclined learners. If my kids were to read about pedophilia in any other way people would be horrified, why is it ok in a school book.

 

Do you have to have your dh's approval for which books you read?

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See, this is why people keep suggesting that those who complain about the Common Core actually read it. Not "read about it" on blogs that purposely slant and spin it.

 

There are NO required works of literature in Common Core. There are NO tests where every student in the country would be required to read a specific book or fail the test. This is not even true of AP English Literature, let alone something like the SAT or ACT.

 

Jackie

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

No, it's showing that some of us have the decency to know what is morally acceptable as human beings and what is not. 

:001_rolleyes:

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There was also a statement made about what types of images "healthy minds" should not contain. I find that ridiculous. Mental health is not determined by the content of the mind but by how well the content is processed.

 

Very well said.

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What literature *do* you teach your kids in high school? And if they are college-bound, what do you expect them to read in college literature courses? I cannot imagine what a Great Books reading list would look like if it were expunged of every volume that contained "unnecessarily explicit" descriptions of horrific deeds, from rape to murder to suicide to incest. And I mean explicit...literature is rife with details of skulls crunching and blood spewing and vomit retching and organs penetrating and drugs altering experience. Literature is about life, and life can be messy.

 

 

I've graduated 2 so far and amazingly neither has felt the need to read anything that goes into such horrible detail about this kind of abuse against a child. We are not discussing ALL books, we are discussing ONE specific book.

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But if the book is assigned in PS English class, then it's more difficult for the student to self-censor the reading, and less likely that parents will even know what is going on emotionally with their child, and why. You can't put the assignment aside for six months when you are required to read it and discuss it in class.

Schools here offer the option of an alternative novel/play/poet for an individual student, if parent or child has an objection to the book. You don't have that there ?

 

The book is fine. It's good literature on a thought provoking topic.

 

We studied Equus in 11th grade. Now there's a play and a half!

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Schools here offer the option of an alternative novel/play/poet for an individual student, if parent or child has an objection to the book. You don't have that there ?

 

The book is fine. It's good literature on a thought provoking topic.

 

We studied Equus in 11th grade. Now there's a play and a half!

 

I don't think that option is automatically available here, though I suspect that if a parent objected in a "give my kid an alternate" way instead of a "take this off the syllabus!" way that most schools would agree.

 

We also read Equus in 12th.  Yep.  That's a fun one too.

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Some people make typos. Can we stick to the point instead of being the Grammar Police?

This was not a typo. The poster believes that Toni Morrison is a man and repeatedly referred to her as "he."

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I don't think you are ignorant. You have chosen to not include this type of writing into your child's curriculum. That is what you should do.

 

My question is, do you (or anyone else on the thread) think that all books that contain similar language should be outright banned or just banned from K-12 reading lists?

I don't. I might even be okay with reading it myself. What I am okay reading is not necessarily what I'd hand my teen to read or assign as part of our schooling. I'm very much anti-censorship for the most part.

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I would not read it myself and would never let my kids read it while they were under my roof. I will never see a reason to read something like that. ever.

This is something I just don't get. When my kids are under my roof is exactly when I'd want them to be exposed to good quality material that deals with the issues in that book. Because then I'm right there for them to talk to. While they live with me I can help them process and consider potentially disturbing but important subjects.

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let's be realistic here -- there are large swaths of the country where pupils this age have been sexually active for several years.

 

I have been sexually active for well over a decade. I even have 7 children, to prove it. ;)

 

I will not even read the descriptions of the book on the website. I don't need that kind of filth in my mind.

 

I posted before about this kind of thing, how disturbed I was at very descriptive passages of abuse regarding children. Add me to the list of people who find it repulsive.

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We are not discussing ALL books, we are discussing ONE specific book.

 

Well...no. The post I responded to was your condemnation of Lolita, which is the second book you've stated must be without value despite being generally regarded as a classic piece of literature.

 

I understand being made uncomfortable by the quoted excerpts. What I don't understand is the statement, and I quote you directly, "I've never read it but if it comes with the details of abusing a child, what is the point in it?" The logical conclusion is that any work that comes with the details of an immoral act, is pointless. This eliminates a huge proportion of any list of great books. In fact, I suspect I could find enough lascivious and gruesome excerpts from any list of literary classics to make a decent person puke. So if you eliminate these books from your syllabus...what's left to teach?

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Sure, it received awards from certain people. I have found that the more the critics like a movie, the less I tend to. If they say it isn't good, I will probably like it.

Toni Morrison won the NOBEL PRIZE for her body of work, most of which deals with profoundly troubling, but real to life, themes. Beloved is perhaps her most acclaimed work and it also deals with very hard to read topics. "Awards from certain people?!" There is no greater award for literature than the NOBEL PRIZE.

 

Luanne, maybe actually read the book before making blanket statements about it.

 

I was sexually assaulted as a child. Reading several of Morrison's books, as well as Dorothy Allison's Bastard out of Carolina and The Color Purple by Alice Walker were all profoundly helpful to me/meaningful to me as a teen and young adult. I could write forever on why I think many of these books belong on upper grade and college reading lists. I am not going to write a long essay on my phone though.

 

If this is porn, the bible is pornographic.

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My husband just finished serving on a jury where they convicted a man of raping and murdering his 14 WEEK old daughter.  There could have been 18 year olds on that jury and they would have been expected to listen to the explicit testimonies and look at the grisly images in order to fulfill their civic duty. 

 

I don't think we do ourselves or society any favors when we cite sensitivity and avoid the ickier parts of the Great Conversation.

 

Wendy

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How about reading the words of a Nobel Prize winner rather than a random blogger?

 

Here's Toni Morrison's Nobel Prize speech. There is a reason she won and a reason her work is required reading in a great many schools and universities. I think SWB reccomends Beloved in the WEM or WTM? It's no less explicit and hard than Bluest Eye.

 

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1993/morrison-lecture.html

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My husband just finished serving on a jury where they convicted a man of raping and murdering his 14 WEEK old daughter.  There could have been 18 year olds on that jury and they would have been expected to listen to the explicit testimonies and look at the grisly images in order to fulfill their civic duty. 

 

I don't think we do ourselves or society any favors when we cite sensitivity and avoid the ickier parts of the Great Conversation.

 

Wendy

 

But we do ourselves a favor by dwelling on things that are inappropriate?  I have nothing against an adult reading this if that is what they choose to do, but it is different when you are talking about a high school CHILD.

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I posted before about this kind of thing, how disturbed I was at very descriptive passages of abuse regarding children. Add me to the list of people who find it repulsive.

 

You do realize that those of us who are defending the book also find those scenes disturbing and repulsive, right? We're all on "the list of people who find it repulsive."

 

The difference is that some people can process those scenes, and see them in the larger context of the story, and recognize the book as a powerful piece of literature, while others choose to dismiss it as "trash," "filth," or "porn," based on nothing more than a few excerpted lines.

 

Jackie

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But we do ourselves a favor by dwelling on things that are inappropriate?  I have nothing against an adult reading this if that is what they choose to do, but it is different when you are talking about a high school CHILD.

 

So at 17 they are not ready to read about it under the supervision and tutelage of a teacher or parent, but at 18 when they cross the arbitrary line into adulthood they are prepared to fully enter adult society?  

 

In my opinion, part of being an adult is thinking about, reading and debating disturbing things.  If you don't think and read about partial birth abortions how can you be an informed voter?  If you don't debate hate crimes legislation how can you expect this to become a more just society?  If no one is willing to view horrific images of child abuse who will serve on juries to convict the offenders?

 

I think we do our children a disservice if we overly shield them from life - the good, the bad and the ugly.  When I was 16 I was dual enrolled in a college class where we read The Bluest Eye and Lolita.  My parents read the books along with me so they could help me understand and digest the material.  I hope someday that I will tackle difficult issues in the same way with my kids.  In some ways I've already started; my oldest is only 4, but we have already discussed homelessness and death and corporal punishment.

 

Wendy

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