What would YOU do to fix schools (s/o private school)

[Katy]

What would you do to fix failing public schools?

 

[Hot Lava Mama]

Make unions illegal, for starters!

Hot Lava Mama

[lamppost]

Are public schools failing? The more I learn about the history of compulsory education, the less I'm convinced the schools are failing at their stated purpose.

 

Here's a video with some great quotes from some very influential educators: 

 

 

 

It's also pretty good just for the outrageously dated getup the speaker is sporting.  :lol:

[Kathryn]

DH likes to say it shouldn't be compulsory. Only those who want to learn should be allowed.

[Desert Strawberry]

I don't think it can be fixed. I'm in favor of a voucher system that allows for parent choice,competition and creativity among schools. That is real accountability.

[jennynd]

IMHO, a school failing is because the failing parents.

[Arboreal TJ]

I like Sal Khan's model. Currently the variable in education is how much we learn, what's fixed is the time we have to learn it. That needs to be flipped!

 

Move back to a modified one room school house approach. Allow multiple ages and abilities in one room with a teacher/facilitator. Use students as mentors/tutors. Once a child masters a basic set of skills let them go whether they are 12 or 20.

 

In theory students will gain better mastery of subjects as they tutor skills they have mastered. The artificial social environment created by keeping a large group of same age students with one teacher will be replaced with a more realistic environment, kinda like what kids will encounter outside of school, where information an experience can flow up and down the age spectrum. I think this has the potential to correct a lot of the behavioral problems we currently see grouping large peer groups together.

 

This would require a major paradigm shift.

[kiwik]

Choices are fine provided the default is acceptable quality and has adequate funding.

 

I think a lot of the problems schools have both here and the US ( and a lot of other places) is they are stretched too thin. If I had a dollar for every time I heard "they should be taught ---- at school" I would be rich. Some of the things people think should be taught at school are clearly the parents' problem. I would make it so schools only taught the academic stuff, then I would have a comprehensive social service and extracurricular service. That way the teachers would get to teach not be social workers.

 

I would also have alternative education pathways so kids who aren't interested in academics don't disrupt everyone else.

 

And putting groups of teenagers together all day is not a good idea.

[regentrude]

A few things can be done:

better qualified teachers who have actual subject expertise in the subject they teach

grouping by ability instead of age

cultivating a climate of excellence (which requires societal change to a system where "elite" is no longer a dirty word)

limiting school to 10th grade  for non-college bound kids, with mandatory vocational training for another two years, and make only college bound students do 11th and 12th grade

 

Some things can not be changed:

School will never be a substitute for parental involvement. Kids whose parents talk to them, read to them etc will always have an edge over kids whose parents don't (think stuff like the 30-million-word gap http://centerforeducation.rice.edu/slc/LS/30MillionWordGap.html).

[abacus2]

We should let kids and teachers be themselves. Great teachers are great because of who they are, not because of the standards that they try to teach every third grader on August 30th each year. Let teachers be creative and plan lessons that suit their teaching personality and inspire their students to be themselves too. Let teachers evaluate their own students rather than giving millions of standardized tests. Parents should be able to enroll their students in any school in their city/county. Students should be allowed to enroll full or part time into the available classes that best fit their needs even if those classes don't match their age-indicated grade level. I would like to see developmentally appropriate play-based half-day K classes return with heavy academics taking a backseat to exploration, play, and discovery prior to third grade. I would like to see more and better alternatives to a classroom-focused college prep high school curriculum involving work internships and/or programs utilizing community colleges.

[jennynd]

We should let kids and teachers be themselves. Great teachers are great because of who they are, not because of the standards that they try to teach every third grader on August 30th each year. Let teachers be creative and plan lessons that suit their teaching personality and inspire their students to be themselves too. Let teachers evaluate their own students rather than giving millions of standardized tests. Parents should be able to enroll their students in any school in their city/county. Students should be allowed to enroll full or part time into the available classes that best fit their needs even if those classes don't match their age-indicated grade level. I would like to see developmentally appropriate play-based half-day K classes return with heavy academics taking a backseat to exploration, play, and discovery prior to third grade. I would like to see more and better alternatives to a classroom-focused college prep high school curriculum involving work internships and/or programs utilizing community colleges.

 

I can not agree with this. Teachers do need to be hold account for how the kids progress. We had our kids in a private school for 3 years. No standardised test. It was a disaster 2 nd grade. We had a lazy, incompetent teacher for one year and that was enough to set my DS back for 2 year on the subject we did not homeschool on daily basis. I do think standardized test is need. It only take couple oazy, imcompetent teacher in the kids education to ruin the kids life

[jennynd]

if you believe that public schools are failing in their imtended mission, and I am not sure they are (as lamppost mentions), then:

1. return to local control of the schools. by local control, I do not mean the school board, I mean the actual neighborhood school and the parents of kids who attend that school.

 

2. dispatch with the standardized tests that are currently required from the state and feds, even if it means foregoing the funds that are attached to them.

 

3. eliminate the right of disruptive students to remain in the classroom, even if they claim their disruption is due to a disability.

 

4. Give students the right to fail a course, a grade, or a class. the minute we made teachers responsible for a student success is the minute public schools began their long, slow decline.

I do not believe local control of education with no accountability. It is a disaster waiting to happen.

[marlowefamily]

Day 1: Shutdown the existing public school system and let all the existing teachers go

Day 2: Refund and cancel any significant existing taxes for the prior public schools

Day 3: Increase the size and funding of public libraries at least 300%, with the requirement that the libraries must be able to fully stocked with any reasonable selection of textbooks that a parent may need to teach their children common subjects.  Parents should be able to rent books for no more than a minor charge + possibly some kind of security deposit for expensive books.

Day 4: Re-open some of the public schools, but without any fixed teaching positions.  Teachers may interview with parents to act as private teachers.   And, not just teachers, anyone could offer their educational services....the school would simply be responsible for performing background checks, providing a safe location for children to learn at, and being a neutral broker with respect to any private contracts the teachers and parents entered into.   Maximum of 5 kids/teacher in grammer grades, 8 kids/teacher in middle school, and 12 kids/teacher in high school.

Day 5: The state could require that all children take a minimal standardized test every 3 years, but the results would be anonymous to everyone but the parents, and the test would otherwise have no impact (essentially, just serve as a educational census).

Day 6: The state would put in place a program to provide a minimal subsidy that could only be used for educational materials and teaching services for low income parents.  Parents could be sued for fraud if they used these funds for anything but a true education for their kids.

Day 7: Any limitations on churches providing free schooling for the financially disadvantaged would be abolished.

Day 8: Prod popular culture to make it cool for parents to be more active in their childs education and get rid of the stigma for kids being smart, replace american idol with 'american student' or 'america's most successful parents'

[kiwik]

I do not believe local control of education with no accountability. It is a disaster waiting to happen.

Here schools are run by boards of trustees and are inspected by the educational reveiw office every 3 years (or less if they have had problems recently). The ministry of education can appoint a statuatory manager idle they deem the board has failed and it does happen. Of course schools in wealthy areas tend to have parents with more time, money and expertise on their boards.

 

I don't see abolishing unions as helpful here. Unions are voluntary and the only ones that have any power are doctors, nurses, teachers and police - the people who don't really need them but that doesn't mean they don't have rights. I am involved in my child's education but it is not my job to make sure he does busywork at home and I can't afford time off work to help out during school hours.

 

I do think grouping should not be by age and need not be the same for all subjects. For high school I would like a more flexible system - ours seems to still be quite rigid.

 

Eta. Of. Course if we didn't insist on deluding ourselves that the schools should be providing an education we would see that they are actually doing a good job. They were intended to create nice compliant factory workers who have no deep thoughts, can follow instructions and have basic literacy. They are doing that - it is a pity there are no longer any jobs for them.

[KrissiK]

I don't see the failure of public schools as necessarily a problem with the schools themselves. I think the breakdown of society has played a huge role, and if you want to fix schools, you have to fix society. I taught for 11 years in Christian school and yes, though the clientele is different than public schools, they are still children and society's ills have visited them, too, though maybe not to the extent as other children. The breakdown of the family has a huge impact on children and their ability to learn. The influence that pop culture has on kids, the fluidity of morality (not one moral standard, everyone does what is right in his own eyes), and the change in parenting (I don't know how many times I was verbally abused by parents because their kid wasn't doing what he was supposed to do, but somehow it was my fault) all work together to shape school policy, influence what is taught and determine how teachers can respond to and discipline (or not) their classroom.

[Hot Lava Mama]

i'm just wondering how that would help my school district, where teachers unions are illegal (as they are in all of Virginia) and yet 17 of 31 schools failed to obtain accreditation?

 

Perhaps there are other corrupt, dysfunctional reasons why Virginia schools are failing.  In California, the teacher's union has a death grip on the schools.  They stand for the employment of teachers, be they good, bad or indifferent.  They do not stand for the improvement of the schools, nor the well-being of the students.  Teachers in California can literally be having s#x with their students and not get fired.  If they are poor performing, they can't be fired.  If they see students being beat up and they do nothing to stop it, they can't be fired.  If they see students having s#x with each other in the classroom and do nothing to stop it, they can't be fired.  If the teacher actually beats up a student, they can't be fired.  I am not making any of this up.  These are all actual events and headlines that have happened in California schools.  The unions stand behind these disgusting excuses for a human being.  The unions have created a system where the poor performers can not lose their job and the good teachers can't stand to stick around and see the abuse and corruption.  It has created some of the worst performing schools in the country, perhaps the world.  I see absolutely no good coming from the teachers union. 

 

Hot Lava Mama

 

[Hot Lava Mama]

Day 1: Shutdown the existing public school system and let all the existing teachers go

Day 2: Refund and cancel any significant existing taxes for the prior public schools

Day 3: Increase the size and funding of public libraries at least 300%, with the requirement that the libraries must be able to fully stocked with any reasonable selection of textbooks that a parent may need to teach their children common subjects.  Parents should be able to rent books for no more than a minor charge + possibly some kind of security deposit for expensive books.

Day 4: Re-open some of the public schools, but without any fixed teaching positions.  Teachers may interview with parents to act as private teachers.   And, not just teachers, anyone could offer their educational services....the school would simply be responsible for performing background checks, providing a safe location for children to learn at, and being a neutral broker with respect to any private contracts the teachers and parents entered into.   Maximum of 5 kids/teacher in grammer grades, 8 kids/teacher in middle school, and 12 kids/teacher in high school.

Day 5: The state could require that all children take a minimal standardized test every 3 years, but the results would be anonymous to everyone but the parents, and the test would otherwise have no impact (essentially, just serve as a educational census).

Day 6: The state would put in place a program to provide a minimal subsidy that could only be used for educational materials and teaching services for low income parents.  Parents could be sued for fraud if they used these funds for anything but a true education for their kids.

Day 7: Any limitations on churches providing free schooling for the financially disadvantaged would be abolished.

Day 8: Prod popular culture to make it cool for parents to be more active in their childs education and get rid of the stigma for kids being smart, replace american idol with 'american student' or 'america's most successful parents'

Wow!  Fabulous ideas!  I like that outside-the-box thinking!  Contact your representative and make your ideas more well known!  This country needs to re-think the education system.  :)

Hot Lava Mama

[Sobeknofret]

I'm not sure that it can be fixed without an entire gutting and starting again from the ground up, which includes a whole new way of looking at education on the part of teachers, students, and parents. I'm just not sure it can be done.

[Farrar]

Make teachers real professionals like doctors and lawyers.  Pay them better, make their training more like physician training where you intern for a time and then have to pass rigorous steps to get your license.  But then leave them the heck alone and treat them like professionals who know what they're doing.

[chiguirre]

I think the academic quality of schools would rise if we engineered them to value academics. IMHO, we should get rid of school-based sports and other extra-curricular activities. I wouldn't abolish the activities, I'd just unlink them from schools and set up separate community based programs for sports, music, drama, etc. I'd also require kids to wear a simple uniform (jeans and a white polo would work well). Basically, I'd strip out all of the elements that distract from the academic mission of schools.

[blondchen]

They are not fixable. The cultural mindset about education (which has been shaped by a flawed educational ideology paired with increasing parental irresponsibility) is too entrenched at this point. The train is too big and moving too fast to turn around without a huge cultural shift that would take decades. And that would be just the beginning. Imagine what it would take - once the cultural changes took place - for all the structural changes to be figured out, let alone implemented. Not gonna happen. I just wonder how bad it will actually get and what the educational landscape will look like later on.

 

I will say that parental involvement is the only thing that could actually improve (not "fix") the situation in the short term. But try getting parents who have been brainwashed into thinking that the government is responsible for their children to make personal sacrifices (oh the horror!) to see that their children are well educated. The parents are the problem as much as the government bureaucracy, and changing the mindset of people is a far greater challenge than fixing a structural system. I find it interesting that most parents I know whose kids are in PS are at least somewhat happy with it, while the PS employees I know (teachers, staff, administrators) are the ones who think it's going in the toilet. Go figure.

[FO4UR]

Make teachers real professionals like doctors and lawyers.  Pay them better, make their training more like physician training where you intern for a time and then have to pass rigorous steps to get your license.  But then leave them the heck alone and treat them like professionals who know what they're doing.

 

This!

 

 

When we have a paradigm shift in control/power over the system, we will see the system change.  The people in power must actually work with the kids in order to make informed and reasonable decisions....that means that parents and teachers have to be the decision makers.  No more federal/state mandated standards or testing.

 

School/district administrators should hold the responsibility of organizing this shared power.  

 

Parental school choice is a vital component to an equitable (high quality!) education for all.  Local communities can start whatever sorts of schools they wish...Montessori, Classical, Traditional, etc... The $$$ follows the kids.  Build a fantastic school, and parents will send their kids, and fantastic schools will grow.  Bad schools, bad teachers will be weeded out or CHANGE!

 

 

One caveat. There needs to be a reasonable system in place for communities who lack the ability to build their own schools. Here is where federal/state help may come.  Fed/state hired teachers & administrators may come and build schools with fed/state $ for a period of time.  The goal HAS to be to build the school, attract others to come, train local teachers to run it, and leave the community to thrive on it's own.  Perhaps that bit is too Pollyanna...

[Bootsie]

At the lower levels, I would:

 

• let children be children, stop having them sit at desks at 5 trying to teach them to read
• allow plenty of time for wonder, discovery, asking questions, outdoor activities
• provide great literature 
• focus on the basics of reading and math
• expose children to beauty, art, music
• eliminate stressful, high-stakes standardized exams
• stop "journal writing" at early ages--I don't see much benefit from having a 5-year old write a journal with "inventive spelling" before he even knows how to write his letters properly.  I think it forms bad habits

At higher levels:

 

• provide more options for students (more trade school options without this being looked down upon)
• eliminate school sports; I would prefer to see these as community activities; I think the problem is two-fold: (1)  it takes emphasis of academics at the school and (2) it places the school at too great of a focal point of the child's life.  Children should be experiencing a variety of ways to get all of their needs met--the school should not be the place where academic, social, physical fitness needs, etc. are met.  This isn't realistic for the rest of life.
• decrease the size of the schools (we have high schools around here with over 6000 students); at this level teachers should be able to know the students walking down the hall and the students should be able to know each other

[KrissiK]

Make teachers real professionals like doctors and lawyers. Pay them better, make their training more like physician training where you intern for a time and then have to pass rigorous steps to get your license. But then leave them the heck alone and treat them like professionals who know what they're doing.

Wellllllll..... I don't agree withi this completely. I got my credential inCalifornia 20 years ago, so things have changed, but my education was as such:

1) undergraduate degree

2) 1 year credentialing plus student teaching.

 

We have to pass different competency exams. Plus, at least in the past, maintaining your credential meant continuing education classes, etc. No, it's not as rigorous as med school, but.... teachers are not doctors, either.

 

All that to say, the best training I got teaching was hands-on in the classroom. Teaching is an art, rather than a science. Good teachers aren't good because of their training. They are good because they are gifted in teaching. The best teachers are allowed freedom in the classroom to teach and are not constrained by a bunch of test scores and standards. I was a good science teacher, but I made up my own curriculum. They gave me a science book, which we read, but the admin. gave me the freedom to do what I wanted and we had fun. And learned. One of the best compliments I got was from one of my stinker boys, who, in the middle of an experiment looked at the clock and exclaimed, "class is over already?"

[Roadrunner]

Make teachers real professionals like doctors and lawyers. Pay them better, make their training more like physician training where you intern for a time and then have to pass rigorous steps to get your license. But then leave them the heck alone and treat them like professionals who know what they're doing.

This!!!!

 

In elementary school I would have kids in groups based on ability, not grade. There is a private school locally that does this rather successfully.

 

Also agree with regentrude. Compulsory education only 10 years and then vocational school. My cousin went through one of this (only our compulsory education was 9 years) and had a nursing degree in hand by the time she completed the vocational track (all together 13 years of school). That could also save states on spending on higher education and allow more funding for college bound students.

College bound kids should be expected to complete a liberal arts type rigorous high school or math centric high school and that should cover what is generally covered in the first two years of college.

[Crimson Wife]

Every district large enough to support one should have a magnet school for the highly gifted. For smaller districts, there should be countywide magnets. For kids in rural areas, there should be online GATE schools and then special boarding high schools like the ones in Maine and North Carolina. If your kid has the intellectual ability, then getting a rigorous education should not be at the whim of geographic location or familial wealth.

 

We also need high-quality vocational training for students who aren't college material. This whole notion of "college prep for all" is flawed and coupled with the anti-tracking sentiments among bureaucrats means that "college prep" gets seriously dumbed down. Then we wonder why huge numbers of kids who got A's and B's in supposedly "college prep" courses fail the placement exams when they get to college.

 

Overhaul the curriculum to make sure every child learns phonics, grammar, math facts & the traditional algorithms, real history & geography, Latin for those with the aptitude or at the very least Latin roots, etc. Reading lists should be high-quality literature rather than "twaddle". Students should have a wide range of electives such as art, music, drama, foreign language, etc.

 

De-couple sports from individual schools. Too many communities treat high schools as an excuse to have a football & basketball team rather than placing a priority on academics. I'm not anti-sports but I don't think competitive athletics should be part of the schools' mission.

 

Figure out some way to overhaul teacher compensation and layoffs to reflect their performance. Not purely based on test scores and there has to be protection against administrators trying to railroad out more expensive veteran teachers simply to replace them with cheaper young ones. But good teachers should be rewarded for going above and beyond. And bad teachers shouldn't be protected just because they've been teaching for decades.

[briansmama]

Make teachers real professionals like doctors and lawyers.  Pay them better, make their training more like physician training where you intern for a time and then have to pass rigorous steps to get your license.  But then leave them the heck alone and treat them like professionals who know what they're doing.

This is how it works in Finland and they are currently enjoying great educational success among their students.

[Farrar]

Wellllllll..... I don't agree withi this completely. I got my credential inCalifornia 20 years ago, so things have changed, but my education was as such:

1) undergraduate degree

2) 1 year credentialing plus student teaching.

 

We have to pass different competency exams. Plus, at least in the past, maintaining your credential meant continuing education classes, etc. No, it's not as rigorous as med school, but.... teachers are not doctors, either.

 

All that to say, the best training I got teaching was hands-on in the classroom. Teaching is an art, rather than a science. Good teachers aren't good because of their training. They are good because they are gifted in teaching. The best teachers are allowed freedom in the classroom to teach and are not constrained by a bunch of test scores and standards. I was a good science teacher, but I made up my own curriculum. They gave me a science book, which we read, but the admin. gave me the freedom to do what I wanted and we had fun. And learned. One of the best compliments I got was from one of my stinker boys, who, in the middle of an experiment looked at the clock and exclaimed, "class is over already?"

 

I also have my teaching certification (or used to - it's lapsed).  But this is what I mean...  the experience i had in education school was terrible and mostly useless.  And the experience I had interning was great.  I wish I had been forced to do more coursework in my subject area, more about childhood development (the requirements for this, especially neurological development, were so minimal, IMO, and, of course, poorly done) and less about education theory (some is good, of course, but it was so skewed and poorly taught).  And then if my experience in the classroom had been more continuous and overseen by a master teacher for longer and if that had been the real training process.  I think it should be that you spend a few years in the classroom as a sort of "junior" teacher getting real extra support and positive help (not the weird, hostile, nasty "help" I was given my first year in public schools).  And then you should pass practicums to become a teacher at a higher level of pay and with a huge amount of institutional trust.  Sure, it's not like being a doctor, but I think the model of doing some "book learning" for a time in university and then the real training being on the job, being overseen by master teachers, the way that doctors do as interns for a time, is a good model for the education world.

[MistyMountain]

I think the biggest problem is that there are neighborhoods that are really depressed and the crippling effect of poverty and the sliding middle class. In in 5 kids in our country are going through food insecurity and so many don't have health insurance or have inadequate or expensive health insurance. Trying new unproven methods and increasing standards and forcing results will not work. I heard in my neighborhood the schools used to host classes and events for people in the community and it was a good way for people to be involved in their communities. I think if schools maintained good communication and worked together with parents and encouraged their participation it would help if we had at least basic needs met.

[KrissiK]

 

At the lower levels, I would:

 

• let children be children, stop having them sit at desks at 5 trying to teach them to read
• allow plenty of time for wonder, discovery, asking questions, outdoor activities
• provide great literature 
• focus on the basics of reading and math
• expose children to beauty, art, music
• eliminate stressful, high-stakes standardized exams
• stop "journal writing" at early ages--I don't see much benefit from having a 5-year old write a journal with "inventive spelling" before he even knows how to write his letters properly.  I think it forms bad habit

 

These are very good ideas. But... #1 is not feasible with 25-30 kids in a classroom. Children who come from homes with varying degrees of discipline and expectations of listening, respect for elders etc. It would be great to do that in a class of 10 kids.  Same for #2.  Honestly, working with large groups of children is not easy, and a lot of the way classrooms are structured is not due to a teacher's philosophy of teaching, but rather it's just a lot easier to manage kids when they are a sitting in a chair.  And trying to get hold of a classroom that has lost control.... is nearly impossible. In my early days of teaching I had a few close calls, and it's scary when they just won't stop talking and you need to get their attention and they feed off of each other and it's like..... what do you do now? Classroom management is a very big component of how children are taught. 

[amsunshine]

I would wave my magic wand and magically transform American society as a whole into that which truly places a high value on quality education.

[ktgrok]

I'd make schools smaller. Even if that meant just taking the existing ones and chopping them up virtually...so maybe by building or by floor. Each with its own principal, etc. That would allow everyone to know each other better. I'd start every day off with breakfast for ALL the kids, not just the ones that qualify for free food. And it would NOT be sugared up. Real food to start the day well. More exercise and fresh air in all grades, but especially the younger grades. More art/reading in the young grades, less writing. Again, healthy food at lunch, a real sit down meal like in some European countries. So many social lessons can be learned sitting down to a real meal, plus the kids will learn better when their bellies are full. 

 

Kids would help clear tables, wipe tables, sweep up, etc. Again, learning real skills but also building motor control, learning responsibility, etc. 

 

More volunteers in the classroom, perhaps the elderly, or older students, something. Enough people so that the ones that are struggling are noticed before it gets too bad. 

 

Resources and transportation for medical and dental care. Can't learn if you have a toothache. And if mom can't afford to take you to the dentist you might miss out on a lot while you sit there in pain.

 

Safe transportation to and from school....this might mean adult volunteers or police walking kids to and from school in groups...something to take away the fear of being attacked while walking home.

 

Focus on the basics of reading and math. Reading interesting things. Living books for science, and experiments, etc. 

 

10 years of school, with vocational school for those that want it for the last 2 years, and 2 years of transitional schooling for those planning college. 

[Farrar]

I agree with this to a point. However, I think that the "blame the teacher" game for the failure of the schools is not good. Sure, there are bad teachers who should be fired. There are also bad doctors and lawyers. But, for example, when someone disregards his doctor's orders to quit eating so much and exercise, and then he has a heart attack, no one blames the doctor. When kids and parents disregard the teacher's directives to read, study, and to go to bed on time, especially in a large group in the failing schools, people still blame the teachers. Somehow we take more personal responsibility for our own health than we do for our own education. I have never really thought about it in this way, although I have heard the "teachers are professionals like doctors and lawyers many times." It's okay to blame teachers in our society.

 

Oh, I totally agree.  I think one of the problems is that teachers aren't treated as professionals now so people do blame them, don't trust them, demonize them, call them names, and they have almost no classroom control.  In many schools, they're treated like criminals.  They're barely given more authority than the students IMO.  I mean, there are times they can get in trouble for going off script.  It's absurd.  There are bad teachers and teachers who weren't given proper training or who have gotten entrenched and haven't improved their practice in many years.  Sure, that's a problem.  But I don't think making more rules and reining them in and whatever else the school authorities try really helps that.  Union rules and so forth don't really help either.  The whole thing has got to have a huge shift in how teachers are viewed.  To me, that's the one real lynchpin.  The curriculum, the materials, the funding, the buildings, the governance, the class sizes, the testing, etc. all matter, of course.  But in the end, I think we have to put schools in the hands of real, professional teachers and that would be the thing that would change things.

[Mama Geek]

Make teachers real professionals like doctors and lawyers.  Pay them better, make their training more like physician training where you intern for a time and then have to pass rigorous steps to get your license.  But then leave them the heck alone and treat them like professionals who know what they're doing.

This sounds good in theory but if you take college professors they vary greatly in quality as do the colleges themselves.

[eloquacious]

This!!!!

 

In elementary school I would have kids in groups based on ability, not grade. There is a private school locally that does this rather successfully.

 

Also agree with regentrude. Compulsory education only 10 years and then vocational school. My cousin went through one of this (only our compulsory education was 9 years) and had a nursing degree in hand by the time she completed the vocational track (all together 13 years of school). That could also save states on spending on higher education and allow more funding for college bound students.

College bound kids should be expected to complete a liberal arts type rigorous high school or math centric high school and that should cover what is generally covered in the first two years of college.

Sounds like my German education.

[Aspasia]

Stop grouping everyone together irregardless of ability. Go back to tracking. BUT make sure that those in the lower tracks don't get a second rate education either.

 

Not saying that any of that is easy and a magical answer.

This is exactly the opposite of what Finland does and they are kicking some serious international academic trash.

 

I think we should take all the money we throw at educational technology (do kids really need smart boards to learn basic skills--which are the areas we are failing at? Or a computer for each student?) and put it toward increasing teacher salaries, thereby attracting higher quality teachers. We should also raise our standards for teacher training--elementary education is the easiest major -- http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-37245744/heres-the-nations-easiest-college-major/. Somehow we need to increase the prestige of the teaching profession, because we don't really value it. That shows in teacher pay. All the countries who perform well on the PISA endow the teaching profession with prestige...but that's because many of them require teachers to have masters degrees and the best and brightest actually do choose to become teachers (it pays to). In the U.S., the best and brightest tend to be attracted to other professions that will compensate them for their skills (which is not to say we don't have some incredible teachers and bright, dedicated people who choose teaching, but I just don't think it's the norm, and those we do have are stifled by all the red tape).

 

ETA: I also agree with pp that we should stop treating every kid like an academic and automatically putting everyone on the college track. Some kids just aren't cut out for--and don't WANT--college. But when we push them all toward college, as if that's all there is after high school, and then they choose not to go, they don't have any other plan. We need to give them a plan BEFORE they're spending their lives in call centers.

 

And of course I think we should do away with the testing obsession.

 

Editing again to add: Something needs to be done about parents getting in teachers' faces every time their kid gets less than an A. I've known way too many teachers who finally left the profession because of parents. Teachers can't do their jobs and require excellence from their students when they're demanded to accept any effort as excellence. I don't know what the solution would be, but teachers need to be protected from crazy, obsessive, enabling parents.

[Hot Lava Mama]

Considering that California schools used to be the shining star of the nation, it is disgraceful what happened to them.  But I submit that perhaps there are other corrupt, dysfunctional reasons why California schools are failing, such as budget woes and an educational policy that does not allow children to suffer the consequences of their academic failures.  I do know that here in Virginia, the teachers are the least of our worries, and that other issues play far more importance in academic failure here. 

 

Well, I agree that there are probably other reasons IN ADDITION TO the corrupt teachers' unions that are causing the problems.  But, I disagree that the teachers are the least of our (in California) problems.  I think they are a HUGE problem because of the power and control THEY have, and the lack of power and control the parents have.  Sadly, I don't think we will ever see improvement (at least in California) in my lifetime, nor my kids' lifetime.  California is run by corrupt Democrat politicians who are in the pocket of the unions.  California citizens keep voting (assuming the elections aren't rigged) these crooks into office, despite the free fall of one of the best school systems in the country, the flood of illegals into the state flooding and overwhelming the school systems and healthcare systems, and a budget system that is on the verge of bankrupting the entire state.  There is no hope of any change.  We have been a one-party state for too long, and they will not fix the problem.  All they care about is making themselves (and their cronies) rich and powerful.  Kids in the public school system in California are a lost cause.  I would never consider sending my kids to a California public school system.  I would flee the state, first.

[Aspasia]

[*]eliminate school sports; I would prefer to see these as community activities; I think the problem is two-fold: (1) it takes emphasis of academics at the school and (2) it places the school at too great of a focal point of the child's life. Children should be experiencing a variety of ways to get all of their needs met--the school should not be the place where academic, social, physical fitness needs, etc. are met. This isn't realistic for the rest of life.

]

I really like this. I hadn't ever thought of it like this, and as a former school athlete, my initial reaction was "No way! That's the best part!" But I think you're right. School is the center of these kids' worlds and it shouldn't be that way. If school was only for academics, maybe the family would reemerge as the center of a child's life. (And maybe schools could perform their academic role better.) Kids could still play sports and be involved in their community, but it would be from the home base of...home. Not school. Yes, yes, I really like this idea...

 

Oh, and I really like this thread, too! Homeschool parents letting their renegade ideas about educational reform fly? Awesome.

[Crimson Wife]

This is exactly the opposite of what Finland does and they are kicking some serious international academic trash.

Actually, Finnish students take a test at age 15 that determines which type of secondary school they will attend. Secondary school is not compulsory and only about half qualify for a university prep program. About 20% of those take the "advanced" track, which preps for STEM studies. So that's about 10% of the overall population.

[Luanne]

Stop grouping everyone together irregardless of ability.  Go back to tracking.  BUT make sure that those in the lower tracks don't get a second rate education either.

 

Not saying that any of that is easy and a magical answer.

 

I have always thought that grouping children by age was a mistake.  They should be grouped by ability.  Children should never be shamed (or allowed to be shamed by other children) if they are not in the same group with everyone their age.  I think that is where the problem started.  Even in 1967 when my brother started school, they refused to hold him back for fear his classmates would ridicule him. 

[Aspasia]

Actually, Finnish students take a test at age 15 that determines which type of secondary school they will attend. Secondary school is not compulsory and only about half qualify for a university prep program. About 20% of those take the "advanced" track, which preps for STEM studies. So that's about 10% of the overall population.

But that's at age 15. From what I understand, they don't track them in the earlier grades.

[Pen]

Study what was actually done and worked in Finland and apply it here.  I believe it began with changing the education of teachers, before trying to change the education of the students.  I also believe that good breakfasts were involved.   That is, a number of the points mentioned here were part of it.

[Leav97]

More of a Sudbury meets Montessori approach.

 

K-8

1) Close all private and home schools.  Require all children to attend the same public schools with the same funding.

2) Standardize the curriculum to 2-3 choices per subject.

3) Every kid has a check list of items they need to learn to graduate.  Finish your check list and move on to other things.

4) Get rid of sports.

5) Quality meals

6) School has flexible hours that match the parents needs.

7) No limiting the gifted kids to that grades materials.

8) Lots of time to spend on the play ground.

 

High School

9) Around 14, the kids take a test.  Meeting with parents, kid, and guidance counselor to discuss appropriate high school track.

10) College for STEM is free.

11) Vocational training is an acceptable high school track.

12) Get rid of sports.

[Lanny]

I would suggest getting rid of the "educators" who do not understand the subject they are "teaching".  I would also suggest getting rid of the "educators" who do not know how to teach their subject.

 

I had a girlfriend whose Father has a Ph.D. in Chemistry. When she was in High School, near Chicago,  he offered to teach her Chemistry teacher what he or she was teaching incorrectly, but there was no interest...

 

Then, I had a colleague, who, at that time, had an M.S. in Math.  One of his son's had a Math teacher (this was in Texas), who did not understand the material. My colleague offered to teach the Math teacher, but, again, there was no interest...

[Crimson Wife]

1) Close all private and home schools.  Require all children to attend the same public schools with the same funding.

You know who agreed with that sentiment? The Nazis and the Soviets.

 

Thanks goodness we live in America where the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the right of parents to educate their kids outside the government-run system...

[Mergath]

You know who agreed with that sentiment? The Nazis and the Soviets.

 

Thanks goodness we live in America where the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the right of parents to educate their kids outside the government-run system...

 

You're joking, right?

[Mergath]

I'd implement most of the ideas Salman Khan laid out in The One World Schoolhouse.  I think that, if you necessarily have a bunch of kids grouped together, his ideas about education are probably the best way to do it.

[KrissiK]

More of a Sudbury meets Montessori approach.

 

K-8

1) Close all private and home schools. Require all children to attend the same public schools with the same funding.

.

Seriously? #1? Seriously? You agree with that chick in the article? Competition is what makes things better. The reason private schools exist and give a better education than public schools is that they have to. They work hard because they know that if someone is going to pay good money for something, it better be a heck of a lot better than something they can get for free. If everyone were forced to go to the same crummy schools, they would just stay crummy. There would be no motivation to improve.

[Crimson Wife]

You're joking, right?

Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself...

[Mergath]

Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself...

 

It has nothing to do with whether I believe you or not.  But comparing someone you disagree with to a Nazi makes you look so utterly ridiculous that I hope it doesn't come as a surprise when no one takes you seriously.