A *college* exit exam ...

[Laura in CA]

Why is this the first I've heard about this ?? I have no strong opinion one way or the other, but I find it interesting, especially in light of many of the discussions on this board about testing, grades, value of a college degree, etc. ... and I hadn't seen it posted here. Just FYI !

 

 

Excerpts from the article in today's WSJ :

 

 

 

Even as students spend more on tuition—and take on increasing debt to pay for it—they are earning diplomas whose value is harder to calculate. Studies show that grade-point averages, or GPAs, have been rising steadily for decades, but employers feel many new graduates aren't prepared for the workforce.

Meanwhile, more students are taking inexpensive classes such as Massive Open Online Courses, or MOOCs, but have no way to earn a meaningful academic credential from them.

 

.....

 

Cory LaDuke, a 21-year-old senior at St. John Fisher, said he had mixed feelings about taking the CLA + but understood why employers might be skeptical of some graduates because "some people don't work that hard and fake their way through it," he said.

 

...

 

 

Educational Testing Service was surprised to learn through a survey last spring that more than a quarter of businesses were using the GRE to evaluate job applicants, said David Payne, an ETS vice president.

Sean Keegan, a 2011 graduate of Tufts University, has posted his GRE on his resume because he landed in the 97th percentile, even though he isn't applying to graduate school. "I think it shows I'm relatively smart," said Mr. Keegan, who is looking for work in finance. "So far, I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from employers."

 

[regentrude]

Somehow I can't see the full article - but the idea makes perfect sense to me.

For students going on to grad school, the GRE has long been a standard anyway.

[Pawz4me]

Here's the article on Yahoo.

[Laura in CA]

Here's the article on Yahoo.

 

Thanks. It must be visible just to subscribers.

[regentrude]

My biggest problem with an SAT like test is that it is impossible to test the kind of specialized skills students are supposed to acquire in their studies. Whether an engineering student has learned to design a structure, a chemist learned to conduct a thorough chemical analysis of a compound, a physicist to set up an experiment or to apply his theoretical physics skills to model a system - these are impossible to test in a multiple choice test. It will simply be yet another generic SAT like test. Maybe with some subject specific parts like the subject GREs. But it still won't test any complex skills - for which employers hire people. They don't hire because the student can regurgitate facts - Google can take care of that.

[nousername]

Well, it is just a part of CC and its plan to follow a child from day one and beyond college.  It may be labeled as a way to sell yourself, but really its a data collection method that will be tagged to you.  Future children's identity (paths closed/opened to them) will be determined by these benchmarking test.  Oh look Johnny doesn't score well on these type of test, so he can't grow up to be *** and needs to become a *** instead. 

The new ACT, straight quote from website -- Offers insightful assistance with critical life decisions from kindergarten through career. 

 

The SAT/ACT, etc they all are becoming the same.

 

So now what happens if you just don't test well. Will you ever get a job?  Have we not all heard the statement about book learning versus real world experience.  Now the college class will be teaching to an exit exam, how is this helping? 

[Erin]

Those of us in the education fields had to take an exit exam.  Some sort of proof that we were now qualified to teach the nation's youth or something. 

 

Near as I can tell, it's pointless as there some really crappy teachers out there that I know aced that test...   :rolleyes:

[Dmmetler]

I had exit tests in music theory and literature, plus a pretty hefty practical exam (IE-junior and senior recitals) to get a degree in music performance.

 

I also had entrance exams in theory and history and an entry audition to get into grad school in musicology.

 

Many professional programs already have certification tests (CPA exams, NTE, Bar exams, etc).  I can't see the GRE adding much. I don't really care what a lawyer's GRE scores are. I want them to be solid and knowledgeable on the law-and that's what the Bar exam is for.

 

 

[DarlaS]

I think this idea has possibilities that should be explored.

 

It's typically assumed that a degree from school A would be preferable to a degree from school B etc. But what if a handful of new professors, a textbook switch and so on suddenly tipped the scales in favor of school B for a couple of years? This *could* be one way of measuring that. If implemented well (big IF there...).

 

Then there's the big variable of individual student motivation. What makes a 3rd or 4th gen ivy leage student (attending a school because his family always has and he more or less inherited his admission) better than a highly motivated kid, who actually wrote his own papers, from a state uni? Nothing, really.

[8filltheheart]

I have not read the article.   I heard commentators talking about this test today.   They said it is more like what the old SAT test was supposed be.....a generic aptitude test and not knowledge or major specific.   One of the pts made was that if it is simply aptitude and the score goes on your resume, what does that say about scoring well without a 4 yr degree?   Is the degree teaching you the requirements for your field or is the aptitude what determines success?   Or if you have the knowledge in the field w/o the testing well on the aptitude test, does that mean you won't succeed?  

 

What does it mean?   That someone is going to get wealthy prepping students for the post-college aptitude test.   That's about it.  

 

We are a country of idiots.  (ETA:   I say that b/c I believe this is just a backdoor way of trying to implement control over what is taught in universities.   If this type of testing was valuable, INDUSTRY should be responsible for developing their own test for potential employees to take.  They are the ones with the vested interest in the outcome.   Let them publish which schools are producing students that are well-prepped for satisfying their work requirements if they want to.   It is easy to find out what businesses are recruiting from what institutions.   Then these would be like professional exams.)

 

[DarlaS]

If this type of testing was valuable, INDUSTRY should be responsible for developing their own test for potential employees to take.  They are the ones with the vested interest in the outcome.   Let them publish which schools are producing students that are well-prepped for satisfying their work requirements if they want to.   It is easy to find out what businesses are recruiting from what institutions.   Then these would be like professional exams.)

Now THAT'S an idea I could get behind. It could even make room for the self-taught person who is passionate about what they are doing.

 

It could even be a way for someone with a ton of experience not to be displaced by the new kid with the shiny new degree (who may or may not be clueless...).

[Arcadia]

I don't really care what a lawyer's GRE scores are. I want them to be solid and knowledgeable on the law-and that's what the Bar exam is for.

:iagree:

  

If this type of testing was valuable, INDUSTRY should be responsible for developing their own test for potential employees to take.  They are the ones with the vested interest in the outcome.   Let them publish which schools are producing students that are well-prepped for satisfying their work requirements if they want to.   It is easy to find out what businesses are recruiting from what institutions.   Then these would be like professional exams.)

GRE is pretty much useless for judging potential job competency but has its use as a screening test for postgrad. The professional engineers boards exams are much more useful. It is very common for aptitude/hands on interviews back home for engineering/IT related jobs but not here it seems.

[Teachin'Mine]

I understand that this is meant to provide rewards to the schools which prepare their students to graduate and be prepared for the workforce, but I'm  bodefinitely not in favor of across the board testing.   What has it done for our elementary and high schools?  Have they become better at preparing students?  I don't think so.  What it has done is to encourage teaching to the test and it has benefited those districts and families which can afford elaborate test preparation.  

 

I don't think the concern is whether students graduating from the ivies and top tier schools are getting a good education and well prepared, I think the concern is with the schools which have low graduation rates.  But those are the schools which allow most applicants to be admitted.   There needs to be a place for students who haven't necessarily had a stellar high school academic record, but want to go onto higher education.  Some of them will buckle down and do the hard work it takes to succeed.  But of course some will continue with poor habits and not graduate.   Is it the fault of the college?   Would an economic incentive of more federal funding help to change that outcome.  Maybe.  Or maybe they'd just lower the standards to show more students "succeeding" and allow them to slide by to graduate ...

 

I understand the goal, but I hope that more testing isn't the solution.  I wish colleges would get rid of some of the standardized testing requirements that are already in place.  Other than needing the GRE or other specific tests, I can't image every college student needing to worry about more standardized testing instead of being able to concentrate on their classes and other involvements.  

 

I don't know what the answer is though.

[Vida Winter]

I have not read the article.   I heard commentators talking about this test today.   They said it is more like what the old SAT test was supposed be.....a generic aptitude test and not knowledge or major specific.   One of the pts made was that if it is simply aptitude and the score goes on your resume, what does that say about scoring well without a 4 yr degree?   Is the degree teaching you the requirements for your field or is the aptitude what determines success?   Or if you have the knowledge in the field w/o the testing well on the aptitude test, does that mean you won't succeed?  

 

What does it mean?   That someone is going to get wealthy prepping students for the post-college aptitude test.   That's about it.  

 

We are a country of idiots.  (ETA:   I say that b/c I believe this is just a backdoor way of trying to implement control over what is taught in universities.   If this type of testing was valuable, INDUSTRY should be responsible for developing their own test for potential employees to take.  They are the ones with the vested interest in the outcome.   Let them publish which schools are producing students that are well-prepped for satisfying their work requirements if they want to.   It is easy to find out what businesses are recruiting from what institutions.   Then these would be like professional exams.)

 

Industry does this to a certain extent, in the engineering field, during technical interviews. It is nearly impossible to prep for the technical interview because you have no idea what they will ask. Engineers on the interview team delight in coming up with challenging scenarios. Grades/school are only the first hurdle.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

My fil had a career in state and local government and the samples I saw reminded me of the interview assignments he'd get. One common task was to do an inbox exercise where there were 10-20 items to go through. He would have to prioritize them and then indicate what action he'd take on each item.

 

I think one driver for a test like this is that it's info the companies would like to have, but creating their own test leaves them open for lawsuits if the test results don't have a distribution that mirrors the population.

 

There have been challenges to venerable exams like those for police or fire departments over the years. An exit exam would give a basic sorting tool and shift the legal burden off of the employers.

[8filltheheart]

n/m