One easy thing every white person could do to make the world a better place

[Dandelion]

Can you give me an example? BEcause my currently-multi-tasking self can't figure out what broader aspects of racism exist beyond whites wield more privilege. ;-)

 

Racism exists between all the different races represented in the U.S.  Between African Americans and Hispanics, Asians and other groups, etc.  

 

I have to run right now, but here are two interesting Pew Research Studies that delve deeper into these race issues:

 

- http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/01/31/do-blacks-and-hispanics-get-along/

- http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/ (scroll down to "Group Relations" as this study was not exclusively focused on race relations like the one above)

 

Even though we disagree, thank you for the civil discussion so far. I'm finding it interesting, and am always up for having my horizons broadened.  :)

[Murphy101]

It isn't only white people who are racist.

 

If people were kinder and extended grace to their fellow man the world would be a better place.

Indeed. Other shades make white jokes all the time. Native Americans do it. Black people do it. Mexicans do it. They will give a better deal to someone more like them than not. (Which is not to say I think any of it okay.)

 

It she hadn't presumed all white people carry the burden of stopping racism, it would have resonated with me better.

 

I'm surprised the old ladies didn't say something simply because *I* would be greatly annoyed to be waiting while the cashier went through a bad check book. That's stupid slow and I'm impatient at the store. Actually, in general when shopping. I'm pretty sure I'd have said something about it and if the cashier insisted on flipping through a list of DL numbers while at least 2-3 people were waiting in line, I'd have likely left my cart to shop elsewhere. I've done it before. The other annoyance is when they flip the light on and there's not a floor manager in sight to see it. To heck with that, leave the cart and do something else with my life besides wait for bad service.

 

Did I note how much I really hate shopping?

 

The dateline what would you do thing is interesting. Again though, like with most of their what would you do segments, the biggest issue that isn't addressed is the sociological issue of not making a bigger scene in public. I cant be the only one to have a facepalm moment AFTERWARD about the perfect response i should have had? I don't seem to have the filter others do, so I think there's a high possibility I'd mouth off if i noticed, for good or bad, but it's equally high that because I don't filter I might not notice anything at all. Sadly it's often all or nothing.

[PeacefulChaos]

Accusation of WHAT? Having white privilege? Well, yeah, basically all white people do have white privileges. To replace that term with "racism" wouldn't make a lick of sense, because it doesn't mean the same thing.

So I was going to reply to this, but then...

 

It isn't only white people who are racist.

 

If people were kinder and extended grace to their fellow man the world would be a better place.

... I read this and she said what I was thinking.  :)

 

Can you give me an example? BEcause my currently-multi-tasking self can't figure out what broader aspects of racism exist beyond whites wield more privilege. ;-)

 

I'm totally confused as to what privileges white people supposedly have...

 

And for some reason it took this out of the 'quote' format:

My response to the term white privilege is - what am I as a white person supposed to do about it? 

 

 

 

I am white, my husband is white, my kids are white.   I wouldn't disagree that people may treat us better than they treat our non-white neighbors.  If I saw it happening, I would speak up (as was done in the video).  That I don't see it happening either means it doesn't happen in the places I go, or I am oblivious. 

 

The "white" woman who spoke up at the grocery store was in the perfect position to see what was happening and call the cashier on it because she was waiting there with her sister-in-law.  If the black woman behind her in line had been a stranger, she'd have gone on to the parking lot with her groceries.  Oblivious.

 

I'm glad I watched the video; I almost passed it by because of the subject line of the thread.  It looked like another thing to make white people feel guilty for being white.  I just can't muster up any white guilt.  Please judge me by my character, not by the color of my skin, as I do for you.

 

:hurray: I couldn't agree more.  

 

 

Another thing to keep in mind, in reference to the original video - it's kind of an assumption to jump to, that people in line behind you are paying attention to what is going on between you and the cashier.  I think in her case she might be right - but in general I don't pay attention to the people in front of or behind me in line at the store.  

I also agree with the woman in the video - and one of the PPs here - that much of the reason this all went over so well is that she wasn't trying to defend herself, but that her SIL stepped in.  I think that, in general, that works better for EVERYONE - no matter what.  

I would even say that it could be really awkward in SOME circumstances to try to stand up for someone you don't even know.  Race aside.  I guess if it's an obvious 'race' thing then sure, I can see saying something.  But if it isn't?  You don't know the background/story/person in question.  I'm sort of playing the devil's advocate here, but do you see what I'm saying?  

[Scarlett]

Um, at least once or twice every few months I notice a person of color being asked for identification for their credit card when white customers are not being asked for ID. I essentially never get the same demand, even when I have affixed a neon "Please See ID" sticker on my card. I also see clerks stare at my SIL and niece in ways they don't stare at me and my same aged son. My SIL is Puerto Rican and my niece is PR and AA (my brother is AA). I am as pale white as white comes and my son is the Gerber baby all grown up. It is never, ever reversed. Sometimes it is subtle. Sometimes it is plain as day. This is not rare nor a thing of the past. That's what white privilege is all about people.

 

For sure. I am white, raised in an all white county. There were no blacks in our school at all. My mom still lives in the neighboring county, also all white until very recent years....now there are one two black families there. One is a mixed family who attend my moms congregation. I grew up with the white husband and he moved his black wife and their 3 children back there. Anyway, the black wife told my mom that clerks won't touch her when returning change to her. So my mom began to watch the local clerks and sure enough no effort was made to avoid touching my moms hand. I don't know if mom has ever personally watch to see if the same clerks refuse to touch our lack friends hand, but I believe her.

[sassenach]

This is bound to offend, but I sometimes think that I am too young for this stuff. I just don't get it. I grew up with equality taught on a regular basis and I teach the same to my kids.

 

This is not to say that I don't get that it happens. (though, thankfully, it is becoming more rare) And you bet I would say something if I saw it happen. Am I abnormal? Is everybody shocked that this happens? Are they determined after watching that video that they will stand up for someone when yesterday they would have walked away?

 

On second thought, clearly some think this is something that still really needs to be pointed out. I'm glad if people who haven't yet received the memo can be reached. :)

I think it also really depends on where you grew up.  I grew up in a SoCal melting pot neighborhood.  My neighborhood friends were black, latino, asian, and white.  There truly was NO dominant race in my neighborhood.

 

I realize now that I grew up in an exceptional neighborhood.  Dh and I left SoCal and went on to live in Louisiana, Florida, and now Northern California.  I was SHOCKED by how pervasive the racial divide was in Louisiana.  What I thought was a generational divide, I quickly learned was really a geographical divide.  It was less obvious in Florida, but definitely existed.  Here in NorCal, it's less about race and more about economic status, which somewhat follows racial lines.  My neighborhood is still too white bred for my liking, but not nearly as bad as the south was.

 

I wish all kids could grow up in the type of neighborhood that I did.

[SKL]

I am a person who has always tried to do what's right as far as racial fairness.  That said, I haven't necessarily had all the tools that might have been useful.

 

Example.  When I was a young manager in a professional firm, my first hire was a black man.  I hired him because I felt he was most qualified for the job.  I look for three qualities in that respect:  intelligence/education/capability, work ethic, and team orientation.  This guy had it all.  But our firm was very white-male-dominated; those who were not white were Asians.  I knew we as a team were going to have to be better than perfect in order to really succeed.

 

Unfortunately we didn't ultimately succeed.  I mean, yes, we were able to convince the folks working closely with us that he was a valuable team member.  But wherever we went outside that circle, there was a presumption that, 1, he was dumb; 2, we were trying to put touchy-feely stuff ahead of competence; and therefore, 3, we must not be pulling our weight the way others did.  Not true - my numbers as a senior manager were among the best - but that isn't good enough.

 

He made mistakes because he is human.  I didn't know how to fix things because I am not perfect either.  This was when I was in my early-to-mid-thirties and I had no background and zero support.  And a boss who would sacrifice us both to get ahead.  After maybe 3 years, my employee was counseled to find other employment.  And no, he was not treated the same as a white guy; for that matter, neither was I, being a white woman.

 

I felt badly and still do, although given his strengths, he is probably doing just fine in his career.  The thing is, if your heart is in the right place, that doesn't mean you know how to fix things.  There's no tutorial out there (that I know of) teaching us white "privileged" people how to fight a system dominated by ignorant people.  For that matter, some of us are still fighting the uphill battle of finding room for women (white or otherwise) in the management of many organizations.

 

Today I work in an industry where the top professionals are just as likely to be black as any other color.  I don't feel any difference in how different races are treated at all levels.  There probably are some subtle differences, but nothing like the industry I came from, for sure.  It is interesting to think about how the difference may have come about.

[Carrie12345]

I also agree with the woman in the video - and one of the PPs here - that much of the reason this all went over so well is that she wasn't trying to defend herself, but that her SIL stepped in.  I think that, in general, that works better for EVERYONE - no matter what.

That's sad to me.

When I'm offended, I stand up for myself and don't fear that I'll be perpetuating some irrational stereotype. My husband stands up for himself with the same expectation that he will be taken seriously and in context.

To know that there are "certain kinds of people" it would "work better for" to shut up and hope someone else will stand up for them... that's just not how anyone should have to live. But, since that IS the way it is, I much prefer to at least attempt to utilize my white privilege to call people out on their dispicable ways.

[Mandylubug]

I live in GA. There is racism everywhere. Even DH the "white boy" is discriminated upon daily. Our "Chinese" and "Mexican" friends are spoken negatively to all the time. It is sad. I work diligently to try to teach my kids unbiased but I will say, it is hard in this state. Arizona was WAY easier and rarely did I see discrimination.

 

I was horrified last week when my kids were laughing out loud at the checkout at the front cover of Oprah's magazine because of her "huge Afro is SOOOO funny". Now this isn't a normal hairdo, it was an extremely large hairstyle. It did look quite different.  If it was a white person with a rainbow striped wig on, I would never cringe but I am SO afraid of offending others and my children offending others that I was mortified. I just made the comment to them that it wasn't nice to laugh at a different hairstyle and that I personally thought it was neat, which I do. I definitely had eyes watching me and our interaction. It was weird and awkward. 

 

Growth and compassion has to addressed from all sides of the issues, imo!

[Scarlett]

Accusation of WHAT? Having white privilege? Well, yeah, basically all white people do have white privileges. To replace that term with "racism" wouldn't make a lick of sense, because it doesn't mean the same thing.

Yes....white privilege does exist. And all white people have it whether they want it or not or whether they realize it or not. I think it is easy to not realize it because what is white privilege is the courtesy of human kindness that should be extended to all humans--

[Scarlett]

I live in GA. There is racism everywhere. Even DH the "white boy" is discriminated upon daily. Our "Chinese" and "Mexican" friends are spoken negatively to all the time. It is sad. I work diligently to try to teach my kids unbiased but I will say, it is hard in this state. Arizona was WAY easier and rarely did I see discrimination.

 

I was horrified last week when my kids were laughing out loud at the checkout at the front cover of Oprah's magazine because of her "huge Afro is SOOOO funny". Now this isn't a normal hairdo, it was an extremely large hairstyle. It did look quite different. If it was a white person with a rainbow striped wig on, I would never cringe but I am SO afraid of offending others and my children offending others that I was mortified. I just made the comment to them that it wasn't nice to laugh at a different hairstyle and that I personally thought it was neat, which I do. I definitely had eyes watching me and our interaction. It was weird and awkward.

 

Growth and compassion has to addressed from all sides of the issues, imo!

I saw that mag cover and it was a crazy hair do.....sad that your kids couldn't be kids and acknowledge that but I do understand the fear when offended people are watching.

[Laurie4b]

White privilege refers not to racism but to often invisible advantage one has because of being white. If you're white, you have it. It's not an accusation. Many of us are unaware that we even have privileges others don't, and are shocked to find everyone is not playing on the same playing field. It's what fuels our questions like, "Are you sure you're not overreacting or misinterpreting?" if we hear a friend relate a story in which they believe there was a color-based transaction. It's not that we disbelieve our friend, it's that it's hard to believe it because we ourselves don't experience it.

 

"Privilege" essentially means that the society kind of "fits" your "group." Our society tends to be male-privileged, white privileged, beauty-privileged, etc. No one would ever say or perhaps even know that they hired a man because he was taller than his peers, or a woman because she was prettier , but we know statistically that this happens. Because it's below our radar, we can easily not realize it exists. But I think one of the benefits of that video is that it brings it to light.  The problem of white privilege is when we deny it exists, so "they" should be able to do things "just like I do."

 

ETA: Someone asked what are some examples of white privilege. One way to kind of "get" it as women is to think about the privileges a pretty girl has over a plain girl. Just think about it for a minute and you'll probably not be surprised totally to find out that in experiments with college students in which they're shown photos and asked to evaluate traits such as kindness, honesty, and trustworthiness, they consistently assign those attributes more often to the prettier girls.  So pretty women are privileged over plain women. Should we have unconscious biases in favor of pretty women? Horrors, no! Should we discriminate against women who are plain or unattractive? It's morally repugnant. But the research data (not just the one experiment I described) is pretty undeniable.

 

So white privilege: Two women are in the room. One is white and one is African American. Someone is looking for the director. She knows the director's name but hasn't seen her before. She turns to the white woman and says, "Ms. Director?"  (True story and the AA woman was the director.) Why did the woman do that? How does being viewed as the "obvious" leader subtly affect someone's chances of success? How does being passed over for being the leader repeatedly over one's lifetime impact the way one thinks about oneself, one's confidence, the persona projected? Would that in fact then influence the likelihood of actually being a leader?

 

I am not trying to "guilt" anyone. I've done the same thing myself and kicked myself when I realized I'd done it. What I think this video is doing is helping us see there are differences that are real. Allowing ourselves to contemplate that there differences exist is important. (I think it's quite possible the clerk wasn't even consciously aware of her overt discrimination.)

 

If you live in an area which you think is free of this, ask your friends of color if this video rings true or not.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

 

 

I hear what you both are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well.

 

Racism is alive and well, and I agree that there is still much to address.  White people do still benefit from preferential treatment in some places.  I'm not denying that.  I'm simply questioning whether it's helpful to focus on white privilege in the overall discussion of racism.

 

The goal is equal treatment of all people, regardless of race or skin color.  In discussions about racism, when we use that goal as a starting point, it's pretty clear how to move forward.  For the most part, we can all see how we do - or do not - contribute to that. Someone is either being given equal treatment and opportunity, or they're not.

 

When we introduce white privilege into the discussion, what actions can we (people of all races collectively) take based upon that?  It becomes a lot less clear.  And it introduces an element of divisiveness into what should ideally be a unifying discussion.  

 

White privilege is defined as the set of societal privileges that white people benefit from that are not extended to people of color.  In the OP's video (which I thought was good overall), the woman introduced white privilege into the discussion.  IMO white privilege, once introduced, frames the discussion in the context of "white people vs. people of color" instead of framing the discussion in terms of "discrimination based on race, regardless of the source."   My point was simply that I think the latter discussion is the more valuable one to have.

 

 

I don't think the term "white privilege" is a divisive term. I think it's a very useful term for discussing race issues.

 

What it means is recognizing the *fact* that racism is less a problem for someone who doesn't experience it on a daily basis. 

 

I don't know the website I'm linking here, I'm linking it because it includes a clip from The Daily Show where they talked to two different panels about racism:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/07/the-daily-show-illustrates-the-cleft-between-black-and-white-americans-on-the-issue-of-racism/

 

Here's a Freakonomics article on names:

http://freakonomics.com/2013/04/08/how-much-does-your-name-matter-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/

 

My thoughts on this issue at large may be a bit confused because it's very tough and tangled. I *do* think there are times that people are discriminated against for reasons other than what they believe. For example, many years ago I had an Asian friend complaining to me that she and her boyfriend were given a bad table at a restaurant even though there were better tables available. She believed this was racism. She was from an upper class family and was used to going out with her parents. I felt like they didn't get a good table because they were *young*. In my experience, young people are often treated like second class citizens unless they come across as assertive. 

 

Class plays into this too. My sister has a friend who is a chef. He was cooking a fancy meal at her house for their friends. He gave her a grocery list of things to buy. Some of the items were unusual, so she had to go to the grocery store in the "ritzier" area of town. The cashier asked her if she was a nanny because she didn't quite fit in with the usual group that shops there. 

 

On the other hand, I am sure that I am sometimes unaware of problems other people are experiencing that I am not because I don't fit in or not fit in to any one box, if that makes sense. People often ask what my race/heritage/family background is. They can't tell by looking at me whether I am white or mixed black or here in Hawaii mixed Polynesian. That is what is meant by white privilege. And I think it is very pertinent to *this specific* discussion on whether the majority owes it to the minority to consistently stand up for them. 

[PeacefulChaos]

That's sad to me.

When I'm offended, I stand up for myself and don't fear that I'll be perpetuating some irrational stereotype. My husband stands up for himself with the same expectation that he will be taken seriously and in context.

To know that there are "certain kinds of people" it would "work better for" to shut up and hope someone else will stand up for them... that's just not how anyone should have to live. But, since that IS the way it is, I much prefer to at least attempt to utilize my white privilege to call people out on their dispicable ways.

 

I"m talking about everyone.  I don't care what race, gender, affiliation they have.  

Obviously I'm not saying people shouldn't stand up for themselves :rolleyes:  .... I never said a THING about it being better 'for her specifically' to not stand up for herself.  

I just know that in general when there is someone else there who can stick up for you, that makes things much better FOR ANYONE.  When there isn't anyone there, stand up for yourself.  But like the lady said, pick your battles - at that moment for her, yes, the battle had to do with her internal dialogue about looking like the 'angry black woman'.  But that same thing happens daily for people regarding all sorts of things - 'Is it really worth my time to argue with this person about this ID check just because I came to the store right after running this morning?' (aka looking like a sweaty mess).  Etc.  And yes, that stuff happens.  

Yes, I know that what I just said isn't what we're talking about here - that was just an example for what I was saying in my previous post.

 

And I was just talking to DH, and we both agree that white privilege is probably prevalent in some places.  Where we live, it's not that way.  We're not a happy melting pot, by any means - but it's a whole lot about 'class' and 'old money' and 'doing what everyone has always done' here.  We (personally) are discriminated against daily.

[Mrs Mungo]

White privilege refers not to racism but to often invisible advantage one has because of being white. If you're white, you have it. It's not an accusation. Many of us are unaware that we even have privileges others don't, and are shocked to find everyone is not playing on the same playing field. It's what fuels our questions like, "Are you sure you're not overreacting or misinterpreting?" if we hear a friend relate a story in which they believe there was a color-based transaction. It's not that we disbelieve our friend, it's that it's hard to believe it because we ourselves don't experience it.

 

"Privilege" essentially means that the society kind of "fits" your "group." Our society tends to be male-privileged, white privileged, beauty-privileged, etc. No one would ever say or perhaps even know that they hired a man because he was taller than his peers, or a woman because she was prettier , but we know statistically that this happens. Because it's below our radar, we can easily not realize it exists. But I think one of the benefits of that video is that it brings it to light.  The problem of white privilege is when we deny it exists, so "they" should be able to do things "just like I do."

 

Good points and explanation. 

[Catherine]

It's a good message.

 

That said, I don't think I've ever witnessed that type of overt discrimination.  I'm sure it still happens, but it has not been prevalent in the communities I've lived in. 

 

I'm curious about how people feel about the continued use of the term "white privilege".  Obviously, it's an apt description and people immediately know what is meant by it.  Personally, I feel that this term is no longer helpful to racial discourse.

 

When the term was coined, "white privilege" was built into our (U.S.) laws and other aspects of society.  It was the right term for those times. Today, when privileges are bestowed based on skin color, it's simply discrimination. Because our laws as well as the general perception of what is "socially acceptable" have changed. I think we'd be better served simply calling discriminatory acts what they are - discrimination.  The term "white privilege" just continues to divide IMO.

White privilege is alive and well. My friend, who is white, has a black partner. She's told me about learning, while riding is his car, about "driving while black"-they are stopped fairly frequently, particularly on the highway, for trivial or nonexistant reasons-brake light out (it's not), car was driving erratically, etc. Rarely is a ticket issued for an actual offense, but he is always questioned. As a white woman, she can barely remember the last time she was pulled over while driving, whereas he is pulled several times a year. It's not random. He was stopped and frisked in his front yard on the way to church. I live in a large city. Just being a black guy will earn you regular attention from the police.

[Murmer]

And I was just talking to DH, and we both agree that white privilege is probably prevalent in some places.  Where we live, it's not that way.  We're not a happy melting pot, by any means - but it's a whole lot about 'class' and 'old money' and 'doing what everyone has always done' here.  We (personally) are discriminated against daily.

 

But you still benefit from white privilege...for example...when you turn on the tv the likelyhood that the person who is on the screen is from your same race is exponentially higher for white people than for black....Right now my kids are watching one of two preschool programming that has a main character that is black (not talking about groups in which one of a group of main characters happens to be black) whereas a white child could almost exclusively watch preschool programming that features a child that looks like them.  (As an aside on this the bachelor reality tv show has cast a nonwhite man for the first time in its 17 season run, and the last season was the first in which a nonwhite woman was the winner at the end)

 

Another one...when a person puts on a band-aid that says it is flesh colored it will mostly match your skin tone...my black children get a flesh colored band-aid and it doesn't even come close to matching their skin tone...and there is only 1 brand of currently selling band-aid companies that makes dark brown band-aids and they are only available online.

 

White privilege effects all white people...that said it is not something that we have to give up but rather work one acknowledging and then sharing.  For instance when we notice there are no companies making band-aids that match we shop the one that does.  When a show features non white main characters (and you would watch something like it anyway) watch it and help it have better ratings so that companies realize that we as a nation want more cultural diversity on TV.  I made sure that when Tiana came out (first, and most likely only, black disney princess) I made sure to buy as much as possible to help disney see that there is a market for movies in which the main character is not white.  We can use our privilege to help others get the same.

[Excelsior! Academy]

I couldn't get either of the videos to play, nor did I read the entire thread. I will tell you as a person who looks white, but is a card carrying Native American married to another Native American raising children who range in looks and heritage from African American to Caucasian it is not the white/Caucasian commmunity that has shown the most racism to our family. Quite the opposite.

[msjones]

Funny story...

 

I am white. I had to go to traffic court for a speeding ticket.  People waiting their turn at traffic court were chatting and friendly, "what are you in for?" etc.

 

The black man on the bench next to me told me he had been pulled over and ticketed for going 65mph in a 60mph zone.  People sort of gasped and tsk, tsked the police officer for pulling him over for such a measly infraction.

 

The man made some remark about "driving while black."  Everyone sort of chuckled nervously and shook their heads.

 

Then it was my turn to share my infraction.  Well, I had been ticketed for the exact same thing -- 65 in a 60.  

 

The man could not believe it -- he just laughed and laughed and said maybe times were changing after all if the white woman in the minivan could get such a ticket.

 

Maybe a little.  

 

Just wanted to share.  

 

 

[Mrs Mungo]

I couldn't get either of the videos to play, nor did I read the entire thread. I will tell you as a person who looks white, but is a card carrying Native American married to another Native American raising children who range in looks and heritage from African American to Caucasian it is not the white/Caucasian commmunity that has shown the most racism to our family. Quite the opposite.

 

The video and thread are more about institutional racism, which is inherently different than personal bigotry. 

 

Funny story...

 

I am white. I had to go to traffic court for a speeding ticket.  People waiting their turn at traffic court were chatting and friendly, "what are you in for?" etc.

 

The black man on the bench next to me told me he had been pulled over and ticketed for going 65mph in a 60mph zone.  People sort of gasped and tsk, tsked the police officer for pulling him over for such a measly infraction.

 

The man made some remark about "driving while black."  Everyone sort of chuckled nervously and shook their heads.

 

Then it was my turn to share my infraction.  Well, I had been ticketed for the exact same thing -- 65 in a 60.  

 

The man could not believe it -- he just laughed and laughed and said maybe times were changing after all if the white woman in the minivan could get such a ticket.

 

Maybe a little.  

 

Just wanted to share.  

 

I once got a ticket for doing 52 in a 50!!!! It probably didn't help that I laughed when the police officer told me why he had pulled me over.

[Parrothead]

I once got a ticket for doing 52 in a 50!!!! It probably didn't help that I laughed when the police officer told me why he had pulled me over.

Wow. I wondered who peed in his corn flakes.

[Dory]

I think this also depends a lot on area. 

 

I live in Ontario Canada, and have talked to black people. None of them (including two black males) ever complained about bad treatment for being black. 

 

But we do have issues with French  vs. English. 

 

Yep. There's even a little of that over here in Alberta, although not as much from what I've heard. There's also Native vs. English and it's not just one side oppressing the other. The insults are thrown both ways. It gets hard sometimes to teach my kids to treat everyone the same, when they know that that isn't the way they'll get treated back.

 

It isn't only white people who are racist.

 

If people were kinder and extended grace to their fellow man the world would be a better place.

 

No it's not just white people, but comments like this make racism sound as if it's only something to do with color. There have been numerous white races of people who have struggled with racism throughout history and there is still a little of it today. I can count on at least one nasty comment about my heritage every week, and I'm blond haired, blue eyed and super fair skinned.

[Parrothead]

Yep. There's even a little of that over here in Alberta, although not as much from what I've heard. There's also Native vs. English and it's not just one side oppressing the other. The insults are thrown both ways. It gets hard sometimes to teach my kids to treat everyone the same, when they know that that isn't the way they'll get treated back.

 

 

No it's not just white people, but comments like this make racism sound as if it's only something to do with color. There have been numerous white races of people who have struggled with racism throughout history and there is still a little of it today. I can count on at least one nasty comment about my heritage every week, and I'm blond haired, blue eyed and super fair skinned.

Heritage and race aren't necessarily the same. Either way, a little kindness and grave go a long way.

[momacacia]

It sounds to me like the two "elderly white women" in line behind the woman in the video were offended as well, and possibly starting to get involved once they realized what had happened (which the SIL pointed out). If SIL had not been waiting for the lady on the video (e.g., had one or both of the elderly white women gone first), there wouldn't have been a story because of no incident to compare to.

 

The reality is that the different people in the situation all had different responses. Of the 5 white people around this one black woman (I'm assuming the manager was white), only 1 of them had a racist response. Sure, could I do something about this if I saw it happen. Of course! Reality is, I'd likely never notice it because I'd be wrangling 3 kids in the checkout line and would be on my merry way once I had checked out (and I avoid like the plague lines where someone checking out has a checkbook in hand anyway ;-). I would just never know, so couldn't do anything about it.

[Dory]

Heritage and race aren't necessarily the same. Either way, a little kindness and grave go a long way.

 

I worded that badly. Being made to feel that I must be genetically lesser than in some way simply because I am Jewish, or that because I'm Jewish, I must be cheap, eat poorly, or something like that, is not fun or easy and is basically racist.

[linders]

This was beautifully told.

 

ETA: I moved to the South (from the Pacific Northwest) 4 years ago. I was surprised and dismayed to see situations quite like the video happening every day here. It has been sadly eye-opening.

[Sahamamama]

My first thought when the speaker mentioned her SIL's "white privilege" was exactly. That is exactly what happens.

 

I've lived most of my life in New Jersey, and I've seen this again and again. Yes, the bi-racial SIL could step up and say, What's happening here? But the speaker, what could she do? She was right in her assessment that, if she spoke up, she would come across as the "angry Black woman." If, on her own, she spoke up, the clerk could simply deny her purchase. How helpless that must make a person feel. I'm sorry for her daughter to have to see that, honestly.

 

Years ago, when I was in seminary, in Missouri, a friend and classmate of mine from Burkina Faso (West Africa) wanted to take some gifts home to his lovely wife, who was about my size. He asked me to come with him to the store and help pick out some clothes and gifts. I tried on some skirts and blouses, he chose the ones he liked, and we moved on to the main purchase.

 

One thing they had never had was a set of wedding bands. So, he and I went to the jewelry counter to choose the bands. ;) He is as dark as night, and I am like Casper the Friendly Ghost, you know? The clerk was nearly speechless. She was this close to refusing to get us the matching sets of rings to try on. We never explained anything, we just went about our business and chose the rings we liked. LOL. As we were leaving the store, we both did (and for many years afterwards) get a good laugh out of that one. She probably went home and called all her church lady friends to gossip about it. Snort.

 

He and I always were like a cross between a brother and sister and an old married couple. He used to joke about cooking my cat. When his wife came to the US, we were like sisters -- across cultures, languages, "races", ethnicities, and borders. Sisters in Christ.

 

But I do admit, the prejudice is real sometimes.

[Sahamamama]

Haven't read any other responses (yet), but I wanted to add this thought, too:

 

If, for some reason, I had been standing there (waiting for husband to pull the car around, for example), and observed what was happening, then EVEN IF I WAS A TOTAL STRANGER to this person, I would have stepped up to say something.

 

"Excuse me? What is happening here?"

 

Clerk: What do you mean?

Me: Why are you checking this customer in the bad check book?

Clerk: It's our store policy.

Me: Why is it your store policy now, when five minutes ago you didn't do that for me?

Clerk: Well, I know you....

Me: No, I only just moved here four months ago. (Loudly) Is there a manager available?

 

See? I would surely do this, because I am beyond caring if I make a scene when a scene is what needs to be made. I can do Angry White Woman really well. And that, my friends, would make me angry.

 

But I've been discriminated against in the other direction, as well. I know some clerks will slow down and drag it out because I'm white (I see the difference in treatment), or talk less with me than with someone from their own culture (Black, Hispanic, East Indian). I've never blogged about it, though. Do we really need to blog or post videos about this, when it happens to us, or should we just get on with life? So it seems to me that the person who made this video really was angry enough about the experience to go to all that effort. Why? Let it go, already. The same thing happens to white people, too. :confused1:

 

[Sahamamama]

It isn't rare if you are not white. My husband gets followed in stores by security on a regular basis. Except when he's with me - my white gives him 'respectability'. We live in a major city.

 

:iagree: I'm white, my husband is Egyptian. He feels more observed when he's alone in stores than when he's with me, even in multiracial New Jersey. He travels for work and is always thoroughly scanned/frisked/interrogated at the airport. He fits "the profile" for a terrorist.

 

Yeah, right.

 

On a lighter note, I like your idea that I give my husband respectability. LOL. I'll have to tell him that. ROFL. "Hey, Honey. You married up." :lol:    

 

Who knew? According to him, the Prince of Egypt, the Son of the Pharaohs -- with the blood of Tutankhamen in his veins -- condescended to marry a woman from Clan of the Cave Bears. (I am totally kidding, it's one of those inside married-people jokes).

[ktgrok]

oh heavens. The reason we keep talking about white privilege is that white people have it, and it is time we admitted it. We can't fix racism if we don't acknowledge it. And if we don't acknowledge white privilege than we are denying racism too, as they are flip sides of the same coin. White privilege is what lets you NOT see the racism. It is what makes you say, "oh, it doesn't happen in my town!" or "it's pretty rare" or "it happens to white people too." For petes sake people, wake up and smell the coffee! It DOES happen where you live, and it isn't rare and just because it happens sometimes to white people doesn't make it ok for it to happen all the time to black people or other people of color. It is not the same thing. The fact that people are still trying to pretend it is the same thing is what Black people are so upset about.

 

I think I want to bang my head against a wall after reading this thread. (and I'm white!)

 

If you are white, and don't think you are  receiving extra privileges for it, well...bless your hearts.  

 

 

[Dory]

oh heavens. The reason we keep talking about white privilege is that white people have it, and it is time we admitted it. We can't fix racism if we don't acknowledge it. And if we don't acknowledge white privilege than we are denying racism too, as they are flip sides of the same coin. White privilege is what lets you NOT see the racism. It is what makes you say, "oh, it doesn't happen in my town!" or "it's pretty rare" or "it happens to white people too." For petes sake people, wake up and smell the coffee! It DOES happen where you live, and it isn't rare and just because it happens sometimes to white people doesn't make it ok for it to happen all the time to black people or other people of color. It is not the same thing. The fact that people are still trying to pretend it is the same thing is what Black people are so upset about.

 

I think I want to bang my head against a wall after reading this thread. (and I'm white!)

 

If you are white, and don't think you are  receiving extra privileges for it, well...bless your hearts.  

 

To an extent I agree, but I do think it depends on where you live. I suppose northern Alberta isn't going to have the same balance of things as the southern US. Being white in one of the richest countries in the world in one of the richest provinces of that country definitely gives me advantages over a very large amount of people. But racism against Black people is not as big an issue here as down there. Racism against Natives is a bit of an issue. I've seen my aunt get treated badly simply because she is Inuit and looks the part.

[Mrs Mungo]

I worded that badly. Being made to feel that I must be genetically lesser than in some way simply because I am Jewish, or that because I'm Jewish, I must be cheap, eat poorly, or something like that, is not fun or easy and is basically racist.

You are right. That is racist. When I served as a moderator for an MMORPG the thing I muted people (mostly young teens, I would bet) the most for was using Jew as an insult. BUT, that sort of personal racism is different than institutional racism, which is more of what is being discussed here. Most people over 20 and under age 50 wouldn't say that they Jewed someone down. But, the sort of racism discussed in the OP is viewed as okay because "they" are "statistically more likely to bounce a check" or whatever.

[Dory]

You are right. That is racist. When I served as a moderator for an MMORPG the thing I muted people (mostly young teens, I would bet) the most for was using Jew as an insult. BUT, that sort of personal racism is different than institutional racism, which is more of what is being discussed here. Most people over 20 and under age 50 wouldn't say that they Jewed someone down. But, the sort of racism discussed in the OP is viewed as okay because "they" are "statistically more likely to bounce a check" or whatever.

 

I follow now. It is different. I've seen that sort of thing.

[Dandelion]

I get frustrated too. You're white ? You have white privilege. End of story.

 

Of course it gets complicated by the fact that some people have class privilege as well.

 

And around half the population has gender privilege. But...

 

White middle class/upper class women are more privileged than everyone else except white, wealthy men.

 

And if you have privilege, the thing to do is shut up and listen to those who don't.

 

This woman is simply asking that white people call out racism where they see it.

 

That's uncontroversial. At least, I hope it is.

 

 

In order to make headway against racism, there must be open dialogue.  Telling "people with privilege" to shut up isn't helpful.  Of course we should call out racism where we see it - not a single person in this thread said otherwise. 

 

Earlier in this thread, I was questioned about what I meant when I said "White privilege carries with it an implied accusation against all white people, whether they are racist or not. It tends to shut down dialogue rather than encourage it."  Your post illustrates that perfectly.

 

[Hunter's Moon]

When I hear the term "white privilege" I have a knee-jerk reaction to automatically shut down. Not because I do not think that it exists, but because of the accusation it seems to carry with it, like Dandelion said.

 

I had no choice in being born white, just as my husband had no choice in being born black, and my friends had no choice in being born Hispanic. Yes, white privilege does exist. I am not followed in stores. Other whites do not avoid eye contact with me.

 

I think the majority of people who do not like the term "white privilege" do not like it because of the accusation that comes with it, not because they do not believe it exists (though I have met some people who do not believe it exists). I wish there was no such thing as white privilege. I wish that what I experience was a common occurance for everyone, because it should be common decency.

 

I have experienced racism, but not on a system-wide scale, if that makes sense. I have experienced individuals of different races making racist remarks against me and my race, but I have never been discriminated against in school, at the workplace, etc. I cannot say this for my husband and friends though.

[Dana]

In order to make headway against racism, there must be open dialogue. Telling "people with privilege" to shut up isn't helpful. Of course we should call out racism where we see it - not a single person in this thread said otherwise.

 

Earlier in this thread, I was questioned about what I meant when I said "White privilege carries with it an implied accusation against all white people, whether they are racist or not. It tends to shut down dialogue rather than encourage it." Your post illustrates that perfectly.

I'm definitely not meaning to attack you in any way, but I think you (and others) may be misunderstanding the concept of white privilege. It's not the same as white guilt and it's not a concept intended to make people feel guilty.

 

I think in conversations that are difficult, like this, it can be easy to misread or misinterpret what someone is saying.

 

I think "privilege" and guilt are being mixed up here (in the discussion...not just your post).

It's really hard to have a discussion about some of the realities when being told that your experiences don't exist...and that's what some of the posts in this thread (and in many other similar conversations) sound like.

 

That's how I took Sadie's post...I read it not as an attempt to shut down dialog (although I do see how it can be read that way), but as a frustrated plea to people to LISTEN to what others are saying. The concept of white privilege is that if you have it, you very likely just WON'T see it around you because it isn't a part of your reality. When people who do deal with the realities of racism daily get told that this isn't worth talking about, it shuts down the dialog very effectively on its own.

 

I get that that's not your intent...and that you've been open to listening...but there are very real issues that you're saying (to my ears) that shouldn't be discussed because the language or acknowledgement makes you uncomfortable.

 

I'd ask that you consider where that discomfort comes from.

White privilege carries no accusation IMO...rather its an acknowledgement that in the US, being white gives you advantages. It doesn't mean you have an easy life or that you don't confront other issues...but you are playing the game on "easy" difficulty.

 

I often think about how amazingly lucky I am to be living in a first world country. There are billions of people around the world who don't have access to all I take for granted. When I worry about bills or finances, I am thankful that I have enough food to eat and for my family to eat. Millions don't have that regularly. That's privilege just from being born in the country I was in. It doesn't mean I don't have difficulties of my own, but in comparison to many, I've got it so easy. That's privilege.

[Dandelion]

Thanks Dana - I appreciate your explanation.  It does give me something to think about.

 

You're right, we (not you and I, but the various sides in this thread) might be talking past each other.  I actually think that most of us that have participated in this thread agree on quite a few things with respect to racism.  My point was more about the language that is used to frame discussions about race, and whether it encourages open and productive dialogue or not.

[Uff Da!]

I cant watch the video but have seen plenty of racism in the US and abroad. The labeling in Brazil was different- in the US a person with black/white heritage is black. There they were white.

I've thought at times that I would have more respect as a male of any skin tone and possibly more opportunity.

[MolleenCarie]

Comparing white privilege to pretty privilege brought this to mind: while pretty girls do seem to be treated better than plain girls, it is not out of kindness, but comes with a price; women are jealous and men lust after them. White privilege also seems to come with a price: guilt and responsibility.

 

Racism is not unique to America, it is a worldwide phenomenon.

 

Love thy neighbor as thyself and don't worry about what everyone else thinks of you.

[Rosie_0801]

I'll happily change 'shut up' to 'be quiet' or 'pay attention', if those phrases are more comfortable, but the point is the same. If you are white, you really need to spend more time listening and less time talking.

 

 

Is it possible to listen enough?

 

 

Wonders the whitefella

[Rosie_0801]

The suggestion is that white people could become qualified to know/understand/not be "that kind of white person" if they will shut up and listen. However, it strikes me that it doesn't matter how much a white person listens and understands, they can't be really be "qualified" until there is no such thing as white privilege. "Shut up and listen" sounds like offering a way to win a game that can't be won.

 

 

The world is a complicated place.

[Elfknitter.#]

The suggestion is that white people could become qualified to know/understand/not be "that kind of white person" if they will shut up and listen. However, it strikes me that it doesn't matter how much a white person listens and understands, they can't be really be "qualified" until there is no such thing as white privilege. "Shut up and listen" sounds like offering a way to win a game that can't be won.

 

 

The world is a complicated place.

So what, reverse the coin so white people become the ones discriminated against and that will fix it? That's how your post sounds to me and honestly, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Rosie_0801]

So what, reverse the coin so white people become the ones discriminated against and that will fix it? That's how your post sounds to me and honestly, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand how my post could sound like that, so I'm unable to go back and fix it.

[Mrs Mungo]

So what, reverse the coin so white people become the ones discriminated against and that will fix it? That's how your post sounds to me and honestly, two wrongs don't make a right.

? I think Rosie meant that white privilege will not exist once everyone is truly equal. I don't see anything else that you could interpret as Rosie saying that anyone should be discriminated against. In the meantime I think she is saying that it isn't possible to be empathetic enough for people facing circumstances that you cannot understand. Once everyone is truly equal, then we won't have to worry. Personally, I don't see that happening until we get alien invaders to fight.

[Elfknitter.#]

Once everyone is truly equal, then we won't have to worry. Personally, I don't see that happening until we get alien invaders to fight.

So can there ever be a true equality where all are happy or are we doomed to repeat this until we can unite against one interplanetary, invading species? (Which is funny because of the Sci-fi works out there that talk about mankind only uniting, finally, to fight a foreign invader...)

[ElizabethB]

People often ask what my race/heritage/family background is. They can't tell by looking at me whether I am white or mixed black or here in Hawaii mixed Polynesian. That is what is meant by white privilege. And I think it is very pertinent to *this specific* discussion on whether the majority owes it to the minority to consistently stand up for them.

And here I was thinking you looked just like your avatar...

[Mrs Mungo]

So can there ever be a true equality where all are happy or are we doomed to repeat this until we can unite against one interplanetary, invading species? (Which is funny because of the Sci-fi works out there that talk about mankind only uniting, finally, to fight a foreign invader...)

 

 

I read a lot of Sci-Fi. ;)

 

 

And here I was thinking you looked just like your avatar...

LOL

[Elfknitter.#]

All I can say is Team Wanda Sykes!

[Rosie_0801]

Yeah. No amount of understanding and empathy from an individual can erode something like white privilege, yet if there are enough individuals with manners, it would disappear. I wonder what percentage of a population has to believe and act in a certain way before the white privilege pedestal falls over. There must be studies somewhere, but I can't imagine what to go looking for.

 

What I liked about the original video is she clearly said she said she likes it when white people stick up for her in the face of racism. From what I understand of American manners from reading here for years, it sounds like many people would feel uncomfortable doing that for fear of offending by poking their noses into someone else's business.

 

 

You know, I've heard a few things recently that have indicated that non-white people might be surprised to find things they imagined have been dumped on them due to race actually weren't. There are many issues in my country that are treated as race issues that would be resolved faster and more healthily as socio-economic issues. I don't know why they aren't. 

 

So can there ever be a true equality where all are happy or are we doomed to repeat this until we can unite against one interplanetary, invading species? (Which is funny because of the Sci-fi works out there that talk about mankind only uniting, finally, to fight a foreign invader...)

 

 

I don't believe true equality is possible. It's hard enough to achieve in a marriage when there is only two people who are mostly fond of each other!

[Elfknitter.#]

I don't believe true equality is possible. It's hard enough to achieve in a marriage when there is only two people who are mostly fond of each other!

Which puts me back to, this is all a moot point. Sigh.

[MyThreeSons]

Wow.  

So I know this is going to sound 100% naive of me, but I had no idea this stuff happens in modern day society.  It just seems so foreign to me... :001_huh:

Very interesting!

 

You should try to watch some of the episodes of "What Would You Do?" TV show. They set up hidden camera scenarios where actors very publicly do something outrageous and then see how the observers react -- whether they step in or not. They will often switch out the actors to include a person of different skin color or some other outward appearance, and compare what happens. Sadly, there is almost universally a difference in how people react.

 

ETA: I see that someone has posted a video from one episode. While that one is shocking enough, the one someone else referred to where they set up different actors obviously stealing a bicycle is even worse: people actually offered to help the cute white girl (who freely admitted the bike wasn't hers), while they called the police on the black guy.