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Dance Parents (Inspired by the "Gym Moms" thread, not the TV show)


Jenny in Florida
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I'm glad to hear most studios are not so focused on eating and physique. My perspective comes largely from my sister's experience at an elite performing arts high school; she was a musician, but her dancer friends were constantly under pressure from their instructors who held regular weigh-ins and apparently watched every bite they ate (they were required to eat at a separate table from other students). This was a school that regularly fed into professional dance programs, but the environment and pressure did not sound at all healthy to me, especially knowing that my kids are probably at higher risk than average for eating disorders.

 

OK that sounds like a great way to develop a really unhealthy relationship with food.

 

I've never seen a scale and no one has ever been told they're food choices were bad. At least not at our studio. My dd's friends have gone to top intensives (Ballet West, Joffrey, Boston Ballet, Gelsey Kirkland, etc). No one has come back with food issues.

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No food issues at either of the schools we attend. All body types are represented and I have never heard anyone talk about food or food choices. I'm a wee bit concerned only because dd has a tendency to choose poorly (pop tart for bf! ) but we talk about healthy choices and I do try to have fruits and veggies more easily available then junk. As for eating disorders, not worried. My dd loves to eat.

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Hi everyone, how are things going with your dancers? 

 

My son is continuing to prepare for the state dance organizations's competition Thanksgiving weekend. He spent the Sunday before last at all-day auditions for the scholarships that will be handed out during the convention. So, we'll see how that goes in November.

 

He is in the tap number at his college's fall dance "happening," which opens tonight and runs through the weekend. My husband and I are driving down to see the show on Friday.

 

He's also serving as co-choreographer and lead dancer for the opera class's concert next month. (He's singing Papageno, too, although probably not while dancing!) 

 

Other than that, he's taking class on campus, coming back to town to take class and rehearse here as often as he can and starting to plan for next semester. He is in the process of changing from the musical theatre major/dance minor to a dual major in musical theatre/dance. He is excitedly looking forward to taking the two dance courses that are required before he's allowed to sign up as a choreographer for one of the college's dance happenings. They are not offered concurrently, but he plans to take one next semester and one in the fall, which should allow him to choreograph for the fall event. 

 

He's also starting to think about what he'll do over the summer. He's hoping he can work out his schedule to teach some classes at his local studio, but he would like to take at least a week or two (more, if we can work out the logistics) to do some kind of intensive. One option he's considering, since his sister now lives up there and has a couch on which he could probably crash for a while, is heading up the NYC and cramming in as many classes as he could manage at the Broadway Dance Center. He's taken class there before when we were on vacation and loved it. So, we'll see what he decides.

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In my family, it is my son who is the serious dancer, which does alleviate the concern a bit. Male dancers are not supposed to be twigs, and my son naturally tends towards a very slender body type. (He's about six feet tall and weighs about 130 pounds.) So, I have been very lucky not to have to worry too much.

 

 

 

I'm curious if your DS has done any weightlifting at all.  My DS is taking his role as partner very seriously and has expressed interest in doing some weightlifting to bulk up his arm muscles.  He is going through a growth spurt right now so I've told him this is not the time to be lifting- just stretching as often as he thinks of it to help the muscle memory.   One of his teachers has been working with him and one of the other boys as they're both noticeably growing fast, and she's trying to help them retain their splits and extensions through the growth spurt.

 

None of the other boys do weightlifting other than what they do in gym class at school, but DS is proud that so far he has never dropped a partner and wants to do everything he can to keep that up. 

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I have no idea about the overall culture (although Misty Copeland doesn't strike me as a twig), but our current dance school also doesn't put much emphasis on size.  My MIL saw a little studio recital they gave at the end of an intensive and was so impressed that pretty much every size and shape was represented -- honestly, it hadn't even struck me as remarkable since I'm so used to it.

 

 

Have you read Copeland's book, though? It was actually a big issue for her.

 

What I can tell you is that serious, pre-pro ballet schools do seem to still want girls to be very, very thin. They may not use words that we normally associate with weight. Misty Copeland, for example, was repeatedly told she needed to "lengthen her lines,' which was code for "weigh less."

 

I was talking to someone just a couple of weeks ago who works for at large pre-pro school in New York where girls are denied entrance to the pre-pro track at age eight or nine because they are perceived as being chunky. So, yes, it's definitely part of the overall culture.

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I'm not so concerned because it's my boy who dances. But I do wonder if people are fooling themselves a little by saying, "not at my studio." It's like the people who think all the other politicians are bad, but not their representative. Or all the other schools are bad, but not their neighborhood school. On the other hand, I'm sure that some studios really do a good job keeping kids away from this.

 

Totally unrelated... thoughts on where to find white dance tights for my boy for less than $30? I need two pairs for Nutcracker and that seems like an absurd cost, honestly.

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The right body is definitely part of the culture. The girls at out studio get lectured if they don't have their belly pulled in while they are dancing. The instructors never mention weight or talk about diet, but frame it along the lines of how they are working in class. If their belly is popped out, the are not engaging their core muscles. If their inner thighs are soft, they are not utilizing their turnout muscles enough. There is the idea that if you are working correctly, you will develop a dancer's body. This is true, but only to an extent, and some girls have an easier time of it than others. Many girls that can't make progress toward this body do end up leaving for other studios. The pre-pro ballet world is tough.

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I'm curious if your DS has done any weightlifting at all.  My DS is taking his role as partner very seriously and has expressed interest in doing some weightlifting to bulk up his arm muscles.  

 

Very, very casually.

 

I had two sets of fairly light hand weights kicking around the house from one of my exercise phases. At some point about a year and a half ago, he claimed them as his own, and he was using them most days while he was still home. One of the things we talked about as a gift for him last Christmas was a nice small weight set and a couple of hours of time with the (male) ballet dancer at his local studio to help him learn how to use the weights properly. We ended up going a different direction.

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Totally unrelated... thoughts on where to find white dance tights for my boy for less than $30? I need two pairs for Nutcracker and that seems like an absurd cost, honestly.

 

I was just looking for tights for my ds because the dance stores here were sold out.

 

Looks like these run around $20-25, depending on the size. http://www.tutu.com/dwear_menstights.html

(I didn't order from here, so I am not sure how they are quality-wise.)

 

Cat

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 But I do wonder if people are fooling themselves a little by saying, "not at my studio." It's like the people who think all the other politicians are bad, but not their representative. Or all the other schools are bad, but not their neighborhood school.

 

I suppose I could be fooling myself. Except, I've made a lot of observations. And my teenage dd talks to me. And I do mean really talks to me about everything. So I do get a view point that I'm certain other moms at the studio do not get. And when the pizza place is delivering pizza and stromboli multiple times a day and no instructor is giving the message "you can't eat like that", it leads me to believe they aren't controlling.

 

Now, if the studio put out a list of "approved snacks", I might find they were controlling in an unnecessary manner and I'd rethink my assessment of whether eating disorders were an issue.

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My daughter goes to a mixed studio, but it is ballet focused.  ALL body types are represented there for sure all the way into the company members.  Now that I've been watching 6 years, it's often the younger, stockier kids that have better control early on without the long gangly, ever growing limbs.  Many of these girls get selected to be featured in dances, etc.  It's actually pretty sad to me that they would be knocked out at ages 8-10 in a pre-pro ballet studio.  My dd is actually one of the slimmer girls at her level (age 10 - she's dancing with 8-12 year olds in her level right now, hopefully leveling up next year some time).  She is LONG limbed, although not really taller than many of her peers.  She loves to eat.  She's always had a sensitive stomach so we are not restrictive necessarily, but I do watch her sugar intake because she has a tendency to throw up if she eats too much. 

 

I'm supposed to bring a bunch of junk food for a Halloween party this Friday.  :)  I would say it's definitely not a serious, overriding concern at our studio.  Our main ballet teacher is an atypical build.  She is so wonderful at building girls up, while being demanding all the time.  I just love her.

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Hi everyone, how are things going with your dancers? We're gearing up for a local competition this weekend (first time competing for ds9, first time on a team for dd11) and a much larger regional competition in November. I'm really looking forward to life calming down a bit after that! The extra classes, stress over costumes (eek!), worry about the actual logistics of travel/wrangling a toddler during the competition (he's turned super clingy again and dh is afraid he won't be able to handle things at home if I leave him behind)...and everything just being so new for us--all this is making my head spin.

 

It's been really great for dd though to be part of the regionals classes, she has spent so much time at the studio and gotten to know the other kids so much better, I think she feels like "part of the gang" for the first time in her life. I'm just hoping for an adequate showing at the competition, it is her first time competing at this level and a lot of the girls she will be up against have been dancing much longer than she has; I don't expect anything spectacular from her on solos. I do have hope that her team will do really well though. 

 

This week's project: finish modifying her solo dress so she can wear it on Saturday. Irish dance solo dress insanity has taken over my life...

 

ETA: oh, I shouldn't leave out dd6. She is at a different dance school, also Irish but not competition focused, and will be in their performance of "The Wizard of Oz" in November. Fortunately the beginner class's part in the performance is minimal--they get to represent the tornado and the flying monkeys. There are just a couple of extra rehearsals and the performance to deal with, so not too much stress for me and she is super excited :)

 

DD13 had a competition 3 weeks ago and swept her solos, so she went from novice to prizewinner in all dances in one day. It was an amazing day and I was in shock for a week afterward. 

 

Yesterday, she competed for the first time in prizewinner and held her own with a 5th and 2 thirds in solos. She got a first for her traditional set (St. Patricks Day), and a 3rd and 4th for teams.  This was the first time this year's teams competed, and our teacher wasn't real pleased with their performance. But the 4-hand team in 3rd place was only 1 point behind the 1st place team, so it was close and really could have gone either way. She also competed in treble reel for the first time but didn't place. She came home with 3 trophies and 3 medals, so overall it was a good day. She had it in her head that she was going to make prelim on her first try, but fortunately, she handled it well that she didn't. 

 

We have two feisanna in Atlanta in a couple of weeks and then Oireachtas in early December. After that, we can relax for a bit since she won't compete again unit February.

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DD13 had a competition 3 weeks ago and swept her solos, so she went from novice to prizewinner in all dances in one day. It was an amazing day and I was in shock for a week afterward.

 

Yesterday, she competed for the first time in prizewinner and held her own with a 5th and 2 thirds in solos. She got a first for her traditional set (St. Patricks Day), and a 3rd and 4th for teams. This was the first time this year's teams competed, and our teacher wasn't real pleased with their performance. But the 4-hand team in 3rd place was only 1 point behind the 1st place team, so it was close and really could have gone either way. She also competed in treble reel for the first time but didn't place. She came home with 3 trophies and 3 medals, so overall it was a good day. She had it in her head that she was going to make prelim on her first try, but fortunately, she handled it well that she didn't.

 

We have two feisanna in Atlanta in a couple of weeks and then Oireachtas in early December. After that, we can relax for a bit since she won't compete again unit February.

Wow, congratulations to your DD, what a great showing!

 

This weekend was also dd11's first time competing at prizewinner. She was a bit disappointed as she did not place in most of her dances, but was happier once we got the individual results showing her actual standing; she was solidly middle of the pack, and felt that was pretty decent for just having moved up. Her 8 hand team took first, which helped make up for the disappointing solos. I'm hoping the team does well at oireachtas; DD is competing solos as well, but I will be surprised if she recalls.

 

DS9 competed only reel and light jig as a beginner; he totally flubbed the light jig (forgot his dance) but placed first on the reel. Maybe he will be motivated to practice more now :)

 

Is this your first oireachtas? I sometimes think we would have been better off waiting for next year, I think we're in a bit over our heads. But our TC was really pushing for DD to be on a team and I figured if we were going at all we might as well do solos too. And the first time is bound to be overwhelming even if we chose to wait.

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Can I ask what is the "story" with dance competitions? I don't think this is up our alley anyway so it's not like I'm looking to get ds into them at all... but none of the serious pre-professional studios around here seem to do them. But maybe that's because we're just in ballet? Except that there seem to be ballet competitions as well? It seems at odds with the approach of the studio where we are, but what am I not understanding?

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Can I ask what is the "story" with dance competitions? I don't think this is up our alley anyway so it's not like I'm looking to get ds into them at all... but none of the serious pre-professional studios around here seem to do them. But maybe that's because we're just in ballet? Except that there seem to be ballet competitions as well? It seems at odds with the approach of the studio where we are, but what am I not understanding?

I am only familiar with Irish, and I think dance competitions both formal and informal have a long history in Irish step dancing. For a glimpse into the higher end of competition look up the documentary "Jig"--we watched it through amazon prime. It seems similar to me to competitions in sports such as ice skating and gymnastics.

 

ETA when I first signed DD up for dance classes I had no idea there were competitions, I figured they would learn some steps and put on a show or two...

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My daughter was on a competition team for two years, but it was low key and secondary to her ballet training, so a different approach than those that go all out. But I still have a bit of insight.

 

I don't know anything about Irish dancing, but the big dance competition scene is similar to what you see on Dance Moms (which I've only seen a couple of times, because I find the behavior of the adults appalling, but that's a separate issue). The dance styles represented are jazz, tap, lyrical, modern, etc. Once or twice over two years I saw a ballet piece, but they are rare, at least in our area. Lots of awards at the end of each session -- mostly trophies and medals, but a few cash prizes. Lots of glitz and skimpy costumes and sometimes age-inappropriate choreography (IMO). DD12 loves performing, and her groups often placed, so it was fun for her.

 

Ballet competitions are a separate thing. The big one is YAGP. They really are a new thing in ballet, and many studios do not compete at all. Top winners at the regionals are invited to compete later in New York, and the top winners there can win big awards, including full scholarships to prestigious ballet schools and/or a contract for a job in a ballet company. Of course, the top winners are rare, and competing is extremely expensive. Some schools train extensively and charge a private lesson fee for the rehearsal time, so it can be a money maker for the studios. Many people purchase thousand-dollar tutus and spend large amounts on travel expenses. I think many kids love it because they get a chance to feel like a star doing a solo on a big stage. Some classical ballet purists dislike the competitions, because they feel that in training so specifically for one dance instead of focusing more time on technique classes some of the kids end up not having well-rounded technique, even if they look good in that one dance. There is also more of an emphasis on dance tricks, etc., instead of classical lines. And of course there is the money issue for parents, because it is expensive. So it's becoming popular in some ballet circles, but not everywhere.

 

Our current studio does not compete. I'm not in either the pro- or anti-ballet competition camp, but I've read a lot of commentary by people who have participated and either loved it or disliked it, so I'm aware of what people think about the experience. DD12 loved being on her competition team, and perhaps we'll see a reason to do it sometime in the future after we switch studios (we're moving). She would probably love it. But there really isn't a need to participate in competitions in order to pursue a classical career, so it's not a necessity unless you go to a studio that really pushes or requires participation.

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Can I ask what is the "story" with dance competitions? I don't think this is up our alley anyway so it's not like I'm looking to get ds into them at all... but none of the serious pre-professional studios around here seem to do them. But maybe that's because we're just in ballet? Except that there seem to be ballet competitions as well? It seems at odds with the approach of the studio where we are, but what am I not understanding?

 

You are correct that many of the serious, pre-pro ballet studios don't do any competitions except for a select few ballet-focused ones like the Youth America Gran Prix. It's just a difference in culture, I think. 

 

Serious ballet schools tend to view mainstream competitions as rewarding flash over substance and technique, I think. They may also disapprove of the time and energy that competing requires and dislike the distraction it creates from more rigorous and formalized training.

 

I think there's some truth to both objections, to be honest, despite the fact that my son participates in those mainstream competitions and has, I think, gained a lot from the experience. He took a different path once he left the pre-pro school, and the emphasis on performance and entertainment at the competitions is more in line with his career goals. Plus, he's had a blast with the opportunity to collect some trophies and prizes and to be part of a team.

 

While I wouldn't be happy if he were at a dance studio that existed or operated primarily to attend and win competitions (like a certain studio on a certain reality TV show), I've been pleased with the way my son's dance school approaches the whole thing. Participation on the competition team is what separates the casual, recreational students from the more serious dancers and gives those more focused kids a goal to work toward. Competition team students have extra classes and rehearsals, which allow them more time for training. But they do no more than three competitions each year, most of which are local. There is very little travelling, unless individual families push for doing more. Expenses are kept to a reasonable level. Costumes and music are age appropriate. And the emphasis is on teamwork and learning, not winning for the sake of it. Every achievement is celebrated. 

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Can I ask what is the "story" with dance competitions? I don't think this is up our alley anyway so it's not like I'm looking to get ds into them at all... but none of the serious pre-professional studios around here seem to do them. But maybe that's because we're just in ballet? Except that there seem to be ballet competitions as well? It seems at odds with the approach of the studio where we are, but what am I not understanding?

From my limited experience, I describe schools as falling somewhere within a triangle. At each corner is the extremes, the pre-pro schools, the rogue schools, and the community theater type schools. Most studios fall somewhere on the triangle.

 

Dd14 attends a studio that sits within the rogue school corner. The competition teams focus on winning, winning, and winning. It is the family plan because a competition team totally takes over the family.

 

Training is about 15 to 20 hours a week, more during competition season. Technique is taught all year in some classes that do not perform. The other classes focus on winning choreography. Guest choreographers are flown in a couple of times a year also. By the time it is all over, usually about eight to ten pieces go to competition for the team and small groups, and then solos and duos are separate. There are about nine different competition teams so the numbers get huge.

 

Costumes are a big deal. September starts the stoning and bedazzling season. Fishnet stockings get Swarovski crystals up the back, costumes get crystals and feathers everywhere, bows and headpieces get crystals and feathers, also. Moms start arguing about how much skin shows so more feathers get added. Tap shoes get colored taps, and shoes get sparkles, too,

 

Kiddos must know tricks. Acrobatic moves are now a huge part of the competition scene. So separate classes for that. Aerials and back handsprings are now a minimum. Weight training has also become a big part of dance. Dumbbells cover my game room floor.

 

Now is the time all of the hotels fill up so moms spend a lot of time making reservations. Each competition usually has over $500 in travel costs so now is the time we start wondering how to pay for Christmas. We also have to buy makeup, false eyelashes, etc. which can total a couple of hundred dollars

 

Now is also the time for the conventions. DD14 is attending Pulse this year in Orlando. Our studio also goes to Tremaine later in the month.

 

January starts the competition season. Every other to every third weekend a competition is scheduled. We live close to Orlando and there is a dance competition there every weekend for our studio to choose from. There are such a huge number of competition companies now that someone could literally go every weekend, all year somewhere. Luckily, our studio chooses all within a three hour radius.

 

The competitions are loud, pulsating, screaming, rushed weekends. Parents all hang together, eat great food, and watch a lot of dancing. Our kiddos, on the other hand, rarely have time to eat much other than a pizza slice or bag of nuts. The parents usually have sore shoulders from hauling stuffed Dream Duffles, and 50lb. Makeup trains. The parents leave all hoarse from screaming cheers, sore, and full of fattening food. Medals and trophies ensure the studio will survive and the kiddos will leave without tears. They work extremely hard to achieve that goal.

 

Most of the kiddos want to continue in the business in some form after college. DD14 does not. She does it for reasons unknown to me. I think she just likes being a part of a winning team.

 

Thanks for asking. I would have never believed this kind of life existed had we not gotten involved.

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Thanks for those answers! That gives me a clearer picture. I've never watched Dance Moms... Eeek.

 

Serious ballet schools tend to view mainstream competitions as rewarding flash over substance and technique, I think. They may also disapprove of the time and energy that competing requires and dislike the distraction it creates from more rigorous and formalized training.

 

Yes, this is definitely the vibe I get from our school. They don't even let the younger kids participate in Nutcracker because they basically think it's a waste of time. Ds is 10 yo and this is his first invite. Most of the girls aren't invited for another year. They don't even let them do a proper recital until they're 9 yo because they don't want to waste the time on the choreography since it takes away from the technique training time.

 

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Have you read Copeland's book, though? It was actually a big issue for her.

 

What I can tell you is that serious, pre-pro ballet schools do seem to still want girls to be very, very thin. They may not use words that we normally associate with weight. Misty Copeland, for example, was repeatedly told she needed to "lengthen her lines,' which was code for "weigh less."

 

I was talking to someone just a couple of weeks ago who works for at large pre-pro school in New York where girls are denied entrance to the pre-pro track at age eight or nine because they are perceived as being chunky. So, yes, it's definitely part of the overall culture.

 

Now that you mention it, that was the narration of that commercial she (Misty Copeland) did, wasn't it.  I can't remember what she was advertising - some sort of sportswear - we saw it dozens of times during the U.S. Open.

 

We had dance conferences the other evening, which is where student/parent talks with the teachers individually -- sort of like parent-teacher conferences in school.  The head instructor directly asked dd where she thought she might be going with this, and dd answered that she'd like to continue both dance AND theater.  I sort of felt like we dodged a bullet there in that we apparently aren't headed towards getting too caught up in the ballet world.

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Thanks for those answers! That gives me a clearer picture. I've never watched Dance Moms... Eeek.

 

 

Yes, this is definitely the vibe I get from our school. They don't even let the younger kids participate in Nutcracker because they basically think it's a waste of time. Ds is 10 yo and this is his first invite. Most of the girls aren't invited for another year. They don't even let them do a proper recital until they're 9 yo because they don't want to waste the time on the choreography since it takes away from the technique training time.

 

Honestly, I really, really see their point.  Recitals drive me batty.  So many places cease any semblance of teaching technique in order to drill some drippy dance steps for months at a time.

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DD13 had a competition 3 weeks ago and swept her solos, so she went from novice to prizewinner in all dances in one day. It was an amazing day and I was in shock for a week afterward. 

 

Yesterday, she competed for the first time in prizewinner and held her own with a 5th and 2 thirds in solos. She got a first for her traditional set (St. Patricks Day), and a 3rd and 4th for teams.  This was the first time this year's teams competed, and our teacher wasn't real pleased with their performance. But the 4-hand team in 3rd place was only 1 point behind the 1st place team, so it was close and really could have gone either way. She also competed in treble reel for the first time but didn't place. She came home with 3 trophies and 3 medals, so overall it was a good day. She had it in her head that she was going to make prelim on her first try, but fortunately, she handled it well that she didn't. 

 

We have two feisanna in Atlanta in a couple of weeks and then Oireachtas in early December. After that, we can relax for a bit since she won't compete again unit February.

 

I love that she got her first using St. Patrick's Day.  So many kids act like St. Patrick's Day is beneath them, and want to rush on to the "cooler" sets.  Our TC would always say that simple steps done well are better than fancy stuff that's sloppy.

 

Of course, I sometimes suspect that certain judges like the flashier dances, too, even if they're a bit sloppy, but that's a whole other can of worms.

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Honestly, I really, really see their point. Recitals drive me batty. So many places cease any semblance of teaching technique in order to drill some drippy dance steps for months at a time.

I think you guys are missing the point. Technique is heavily taught in most of the rogue schools, also. It is taught all year. Competitions value technique over everything else. But, there is the glitz and glamor and tricks and choreography as well in multiple genres. The studio DD14 attends is even taking some small groups for ballet numbers, although ballet is not as popular at competitions as it once was. But, nonetheless, a team which sacrifices technique for glitz will not score well,

 

We have a ton of different types of school in our town. I have been to more performances a mom with only one girl should ever have to endure, especially when my own kiddo is not in it, But, I would never say one type of school is better than another. They all have their place. And all seem to be great experiences for kiddos' health and overall fitness. Even the community theater schools teach good technique, although the kiddos may not get as far in that regard as others, mainly because they are focusing more on acting and singing. I do not think I have ever been to a recital or competition ever where I thought kiddos were not taught technique. But, one can usually tell how many classes or experience a kiddo has had, by watching for technique.

 

I would hope that no one would fall into the trap that one type of school is better in all ways than another, it is more of just finding what works for the goals of our families and kiddos, and then finding the best school that meets those goals. Maybe, I am misinterpreting the previous post.

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I'm very jealous of those of you in studios who compete locally.  We have four competitions, plus one nationals.  All of them will require a serious drive and hotel stay.  More and more competitions come close every year, but our studio owner really feels that our kids need to be competing against a higher level of dancer- so we make the drive to Chicago over and over.  Our nationals last year was within the state, but this year... We're off to Panama City, Florida.  From Wisconsin.  

 

Both my kids are doing duets this year, so we'll also be attending one local competition as independent entries.  Even though we're happy with our studio, I like to keep an eye on other studios in the area and what they are doing.  Going to a competition can really give you an idea what is important to other studios.  Generally the studio that allows the skimpiest bikini tops on the minis allows the skankiest costumes on the teens and has the inappropriate dancing going on. When our studio abruptly closed a few years ago, our list of studios to check out was based solely on what we had seen at competitions.   

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I think you guys are missing the point. Technique is heavily taught in most of the rogue schools, also. It is taught all year. Competitions value technique over everything else. But, there is the glitz and glamor and tricks and choreography as well in multiple genres. The studio DD14 attends is even taking some small groups for ballet numbers, although ballet is not as popular at competitions as it once was. But, nonetheless, a team which sacrifices technique for glitz will not score well,

 

We have a ton of different types of school in our town. I have been to more performances a mom with only one girl should ever have to endure, especially when my own kiddo is not in it, But, I would never say one type of school is better than another. They all have their place. And all seem to be great experiences for kiddos' health and overall fitness. Even the community theater schools teach good technique, although the kiddos may not get as far in that regard as others, mainly because they are focusing more on acting and singing. I do not think I have ever been to a recital or competition ever where I thought kiddos were not taught technique. But, one can usually tell how many classes or experience a kiddo has had, by watching for technique.

 

I would hope that no one would fall into the trap that one type of school is better in all ways than another, it is more of just finding what works for the goals of our families and kiddos, and then finding the best school that meets those goals. Maybe, I am misinterpreting the previous post.

 

Two years ago my daughter did a ballet trio for competition.  It was one of our best experiences with competition because ballet is either correct, or its not.  It was a mixed group of girls age-wise, but they knocked it out of the park, taking first place overall at two competitions.  That means they beat all the jazz, tap, modern, hip-hop,etc. duos/trios, and it was purely about the technique and artistry.

 

 Our studio has been in business for 29 years- competing for 15 of them or so, and the competitions the owner takes off the lists as possibilities for her kids are the ones that reward the glitz over the technique- there are a few of those out there. 

 

Though, I have been to a recital where technique was clearly NOT a huge focus.  Last year we had DD in one class at a local park and rec... Oy, that ended up being a huge mistake.  Their focus was all about having fun learning something new.  I have never in my life seen so many non-pointed toes and non-straight legs at one time in my life.  But, the families there didn't seem to be bothered by it, and the kids sure looked like they were having the time of their lives, so it worked for them. 

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Serious ballet schools tend to view mainstream competitions as rewarding flash over substance and technique, I think. They may also disapprove of the time and energy that competing requires and dislike the distraction it creates from more rigorous and formalized training.

 

 

 

Besides a "serious ballet school" my dd has taken dance as her art elective in public high school one of her good friends from that class dances with a competition school. The emphasis of flash over technique is complaint of dd's friend's mother. The mother was previously a professional modern dancer. She kept her dd at that studio because her dd has had fun with it, but the mother has said she does not see a lot of good technique at competitions.

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I love that she got her first using St. Patrick's Day. So many kids act like St. Patrick's Day is beneath them, and want to rush on to the "cooler" sets. Our TC would always say that simple steps done well are better than fancy stuff that's sloppy.

 

Of course, I sometimes suspect that certain judges like the flashier dances, too, even if they're a bit sloppy, but that's a whole other can of worms.

I actually think this is one area where our school shoots itself in the foot. Our TC is big on fancy steps, and he gets some spectacular results with his champ students; I think he should keep things simpler for the grade level dancers though and just really, really focus on technique. The assistant teachers tend to agree with me, but they're not the ones making decisions...

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I would hope that no one would fall into the trap that one type of school is better in all ways than another, it is more of just finding what works for the goals of our families and kiddos, and then finding the best school that meets those goals. Maybe, I am misinterpreting the previous post.

 

Oh, I have no problem with  other people flocking to studios that emphasize recitals, have their kids purchase approx 279 separate costumes so they can perform group numbers in tap, jazz, lyrical, ballet, modern, acro, whatever, danced over the course of several nights of recitals that have been rehearse for 5 months of the school year in lieu of any practice of the basics.  Have at it!  Post pictures on facebook!  Have fun!  I'll like all of your pictures (assuming the costumes aren't too horrible, in which case I'll quietly pretend I didn't see the pictures) and celebrate with you!

 

 

OTOH, a friend of dd attends a school in which students have no opportunity to perform whatsoever unless they audition for and are accepted into company (which immediately sucks up all of your time -- kids in company are told to not expect to be straight A students).  She's really happy there because she just wants to study technique and has very little interest in performing.  Maybe someday she'll decide she wants to do something different.  And, again, it's great that she has that choice.

 

 

HOWEVER, unlike you I've seen gobs-o-plenty of poor technique.  Who allowed these girls up on pointe?  Really? At another school years ago I had teach my own child how to pas de bourree  when a teacher decided to throw one in a recital piece without bothering to cover what it was, apparently assuming 6 year olds could sort it out on their own.  And another local school which teaches ballet sans barre because, really, is it that necessary?  There's some scary stuff out there.

 

I *do* have a bit of a problem with families who think they're getting the same sort of dance education in *any* studio.  When my kiddos were little they had a dance teacher who faithfully attended a certain studio (very recital-centric place, btw) and then went to college to become a professional dancer -- she had to unlearn and then re-learn pretty much everything.  She said sometimes she though it would've been easier to have not taken dance at all than it was to have to unlearn years and years of poor technique.

 

In the same vein, a good friend teaches dance at a university, and says the faculty has noted that certain studios turn out dancers that consistently have problems when they hit college dance curricula.  It's unfortunate that people don't realize what they're choosing by selecting certain studios.

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I love that she got her first using St. Patrick's Day.  So many kids act like St. Patrick's Day is beneath them, and want to rush on to the "cooler" sets.  Our TC would always say that simple steps done well are better than fancy stuff that's sloppy.

 

Of course, I sometimes suspect that certain judges like the flashier dances, too, even if they're a bit sloppy, but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

Our kids have to get a first in St Patrick's Day before they can learn another trad set. It's hard to stand out because so many people do St Patrick's Day, so that first is well-earned. I think she told me what she's going to learn next but I forget what it is. Maybe Blackbird. 

 

Our teacher is big, big, big on fundamentals like turn out and cross. He always says that if your fundamentals are good, you will win every time. DD has been dancing 4.5 years (2.5 with a TCRG), and I'm finally starting to understand the dances. When I was watching her novice hornpipe the day she won it, at first I couldn't tell whether she was better than the other dancers or not. Then I started watching their feet and realized that when dd stamped her feet, they were completely turned out, but the other girls' feet were pointing forward. She won that dance by six points!

 

I'm glad they rotate the judges for the grades and have 3 judges for champs. It balances things out when you get one who likes a particular style or prefers flash over technique.

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Wow, congratulations to your DD, what a great showing!

 

This weekend was also dd11's first time competing at prizewinner. She was a bit disappointed as she did not place in most of her dances, but was happier once we got the individual results showing her actual standing; she was solidly middle of the pack, and felt that was pretty decent for just having moved up. Her 8 hand team took first, which helped make up for the disappointing solos. I'm hoping the team does well at oireachtas; DD is competing solos as well, but I will be surprised if she recalls.

 

DS9 competed only reel and light jig as a beginner; he totally flubbed the light jig (forgot his dance) but placed first on the reel. Maybe he will be motivated to practice more now :)

 

Is this your first oireachtas? I sometimes think we would have been better off waiting for next year, I think we're in a bit over our heads. But our TC was really pushing for DD to be on a team and I figured if we were going at all we might as well do solos too. And the first time is bound to be overwhelming even if we chose to wait.

 

Congrats to your kids on their wins. I agree with you that middle of the pack is great when new in a level. That's pretty much how it worked for dd when she moved to AB and novice. She did better than I expected last weekend in prizewinner. 

 

This is our first oireachtas. She's not doing solos this year, but I'm sure she will next year. A lot of kids don't do solos their first time, because the teacher and other parents say that teams and trad set is stressful enough for the first one. 

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My dd is probably in the last Nutcracker of the season for this thread. She has 8 shows from Wed through Sunday. She has solos on Wed and Sat morning. This is her first time for solos in the show. Tech rehearsals tonight and tomorrow night and then the performances start. 

 

Last night she picked out her tutu. The school has multiple costumes from years and years of performances. She was talking about the girls who previously wore that tutu and have since graduated. 

 

Anyway, I'm hoping it goes well. 

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My dd is doing small performances with scenes from the Nutcracker and a few other holiday numbers right now just one day a week as outreach at local malls.  She has enjoyed this the last couple years - she's in the youngest group performing there. 

 

However, she recently got to perform with the traveling Moscow Ballet that auditions kids in cities it travels to.  It was such a super amazing experience for her!  It was the best Nutcracker/ballet we've ever seen. The professional dancers were so amazing!  The costuming and sets were gorgeous too.  She has actually had a rough fall at her dance studio for a number of reasons.  This experience has really helped boost her confidence!

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We just got back last night from dd's first Oireachtas (Irish Dance regional comp). What an amazing experience! I already can't wait for next year!

 

Dd placed 6th for her traditional set and her teams placed 4th and 9th. Three of our teams got 1st. All except one of our teams recalled. We've only been doing teams for 2 years, so it was really exciting that we did so well.

 

Our adult dancers took 1st, 2nd, and 7th for their traditional sets. All of our kids who recalled for solos qualified for nationals and one for worlds. He qualified for worlds last year and didn't get to go because of injuries, so I'm so glad he qualified again. 

 

Dd got her picture taken with the senior mens (over 20) current world champ. He danced at one of the awards ceremonies and he is so good! Meeting him was one of the highlights of dd's weekend.

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My dd is doing small performances with scenes from the Nutcracker and a few other holiday numbers right now just one day a week as outreach at local malls. She has enjoyed this the last couple years - she's in the youngest group performing there.

 

However, she recently got to perform with the traveling Moscow Ballet that auditions kids in cities it travels to. It was such a super amazing experience for her! It was the best Nutcracker/ballet we've ever seen. The professional dancers were so amazing! The costuming and sets were gorgeous too. She has actually had a rough fall at her dance studio for a number of reasons. This experience has really helped boost her confidence!

I thought it would be fun to audition for the Moscow Ballet tour group, but dd flatly refused. Glad to hear it was a good experience for your dd.

 

We just had the mall performances this weekend during Santa's arrival at that particular place. So now we're home free for the rest of the semester insofar as performances - YAY! Now they're starting a competition piece for spring.

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We just got back last night from dd's first Oireachtas (Irish Dance regional comp). What an amazing experience! I already can't wait for next year!

 

Dd placed 6th for her traditional set and her teams placed 4th and 9th. Three of our teams got 1st. All except one of our teams recalled. We've only been doing teams for 2 years, so it was really exciting that we did so well.

 

Our adult dancers took 1st, 2nd, and 7th for their traditional sets. All of our kids who recalled for solos qualified for nationals and one for worlds. He qualified for worlds last year and didn't get to go because of injuries, so I'm so glad he qualified again.

 

Dd got her picture taken with the senior mens (over 20) current world champ. He danced at one of the awards ceremonies and he is so good! Meeting him was one of the highlights of dd's weekend.

So glad to hear your Oireachtas was such a positive experience :) Ours was kind of rough, DD competed in solos and came in near the bottom of the heap, but we expected that as she doesn't yet have the level of experience most of the competitors at that level do. We figured this year was just a practice run. The disappointing bit was teams because her 8-hand group was really sharp and should have been competitive for a good placement, but one of the girls had a serious case of nerves and messed up badly in the dance. I was proud of the girls though, they all rallied around to support and encourage each other, especially the girl who messed up and was of course devastated.

 

DD came home excited to work towards next year.

 

The studio overall had some great results, several World qualifiers. I'd been curious to see how things would go as five of last year's Worlds participants weren't competing this fall, three were out with injuries, one of the guys gave up dance to play football (now there's an interesting transition!) not sure what happened with the other.

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Ds is in tech week for Nutcracker. They perform for the schools on Thursday and then three shows on Sat and Sun. This is probably his last Nutcracker as the transition to the new director has not gone well. It makes me sad as he so enjoyed dancing last year and this studio is so close and last year they were quite tolerant of his differences but that's not the direction this director is going for so Ds will probably not finish out the year.

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Over Thanksgiving weekend, my son performed his farewell dance marking the end of his year as Florida Dance Masters' Junior Mr. Dance. He gave a little speech and even thanked his mom. (Awwww.) He was not allowed to compete for a title this year, because of a rule change that prohibits holding back-to-to-back titles. However, at the awards ceremony, he did receive a small but very welcome scholarship to go toward continuing his tap studies at his local studio. And he had a wonderful time doing the convention, since he hasn't been able to do any others so far this year. 

 

Meanwhile, on campus, he has been cast in three dances for the upcoming faculty- and guest-choreographed dance concert coming up in February: tap, ballet and Latin. He's a principal in the ballet number and is really enjoying the opportunity to get back to his classical roots a bit. 

 

He really missed dancing more this past semester -- and has been feeling very nostalgic about Nutcracker. He has a variety of plans in place to get more time in the studio beginning in January. He will be officially adding the second major (dance) to his already declared musical theatre major and will be taking at least one dance class this semester. He also hopes to get a tap ensemble going as a student organization/activity. He's also recently discovered/been reminded that the pre-pro conservatory that is within easy biking distance of his campus has open adult classes, which might make for a nice supplement to what he can get at the college.

 

He's also hoping to get in a booster shot by taking some classes at his local studio while he's home on break. And he's looking forward to attending a one-day tap intensive after Christmas.

 

Between the additional classes and the student group, plus the thrice weekly rehearsals for the February production, he should be a much dancier and happier guy.

 

 

 

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Ds is in tech week for Nutcracker. They perform for the schools on Thursday and then three shows on Sat and Sun. This is probably his last Nutcracker as the transition to the new director has not gone well. It makes me sad as he so enjoyed dancing last year and this studio is so close and last year they were quite tolerant of his differences but that's not the direction this director is going for so Ds will probably not finish out the year.

 

I'm so sorry to hear this. I know exactly how joyous it can be to find a place where your kid belongs. It's sad that your son is not feeling as welcome there now. I hope you find another school soon where he will thrive.

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For those with boys who do ballet, what do they wear to class? Where do you buy dance clothes for them? I've signed my kids up for ballet classes, and the dress code for boys is basically close fitting white shirt and black shorts, but I'm a little confused on what that means--does he need something like biker shorts, or would more typical athletic shorts work? The girls were easy, we just had to tell the local dance shop what school and levels they were in and they pointed us right to what we needed; they had trouble even coming up with acceptable shoes for ds though.

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My dd dances at a studio that does competitions and is known for yearly *major* professional quality recitals.  All of the dancers in our studio are trained in the same technique classes and competition dancers have separate competition choreography classes. The competition dancers tend to be the ones who are much more serious about dance and want more classes and performance opportunities. All of our competition students are required to take ballet. Many of them consider dance team to be their travel sport.  They enjoy being with their friends, getting on stage, and winning awards. Most of the dancers at our studio are not on the competition teams though.    Our recital dances are learned in the last three months of the year, but technique is still emphasized in class. I'm not too concerned that my dd isn't getting good technique because one of our teen dancers had two professional opportunities this year and a recent grad just got selected by a jury of Broadway judges to dance in NYC.

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For those with boys who do ballet, what do they wear to class? Where do you buy dance clothes for them? I've signed my kids up for ballet classes, and the dress code for boys is basically close fitting white shirt and black shorts, but I'm a little confused on what that means--does he need something like biker shorts, or would more typical athletic shorts work? The girls were easy, we just had to tell the local dance shop what school and levels they were in and they pointed us right to what we needed; they had trouble even coming up with acceptable shoes for ds though.

 

Yes, my son wore bike-type shorts when he first started, sometimes over tights and sometimes with white socks. When he got a little older, he preferred leggings and socks, and his school was fine with that. When he was younger, as long as I didn't take him shopping with me, I could buy plain black leggings in the girls department, which worked fine.

 

He started with plain white undershirt-type shirts, but fairly quickly switched to athletic shirts. (He's quite slender and tall, and we could never get a shirt that fit closely enough that wasn't also far too short otherwise.) Nowadays, he prefers Under Armour, but he used to wear the ones from Target.

 

Once he got to be 12 or so, the school got pickier. At that point, he had to start wearing real tights with a dance belt underneath. We buy those at a local dance store -- although they always have to go digging in the storage room to find them -- or online through sites like Discount Dance Supply (www.discountdance.com). Discount Dance and similar online retailers will also have shoes for boys at a reasonable price.

 

Because my son is vegan, we have to special order his shoes to get them made with no leather. There is a dance school in Brooklyn that is owned by a lovely vegan lady who has a line of shoes made for her dancers. We used to order his shoes through her, but he has now outgrown the sizes they carry. So, we order them from Grishko, which is always an adventure. He's actually due for a new pair, but I'm dreading making the call to place the order.

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Yes, my son wore bike-type shorts when he first started, sometimes over tights and sometimes with white socks. When he got a little older, he preferred leggings and socks, and his school was fine with that. When he was younger, as long as I didn't take him shopping with me, I could buy plain black leggings in the girls department, which worked fine.

 

He started with plain white undershirt-type shirts, but fairly quickly switched to athletic shirts. (He's quite slender and tall, and we could never get a shirt that fit closely enough that wasn't also far too short otherwise.) Nowadays, he prefers Under Armour, but he used to wear the ones from Target.

 

Once he got to be 12 or so, the school got pickier. At that point, he had to start wearing real tights with a dance belt underneath. We buy those at a local dance store -- although they always have to go digging in the storage room to find them -- or online through sites like Discount Dance Supply (www.discountdance.com). Discount Dance and similar online retailers will also have shoes for boys at a reasonable price.

 

Because my son is vegan, we have to special order his shoes to get them made with no leather. There is a dance school in Brooklyn that is owned by a lovely vegan lady who has a line of shoes made for her dancers. We used to order his shoes through her, but he has now outgrown the sizes they carry. So, we order them from Grishko, which is always an adventure. He's actually due for a new pair, but I'm dreading making the call to place the order.

Thank you, that is very helpful.

 

Irish dance is not as heavily female dominated as ballet (though boys are still the minority); I am finding ballet harder to navigate, but my hope is too build some strong basic dance technique. I've been particularly worried by the frequency of injuries at our Irish studio.

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So glad to hear your Oireachtas was such a positive experience :) Ours was kind of rough, DD competed in solos and came in near the bottom of the heap, but we expected that as she doesn't yet have the level of experience most of the competitors at that level do. We figured this year was just a practice run. The disappointing bit was teams because her 8-hand group was really sharp and should have been competitive for a good placement, but one of the girls had a serious case of nerves and messed up badly in the dance. I was proud of the girls though, they all rallied around to support and encourage each other, especially the girl who messed up and was of course devastated.

 

DD came home excited to work towards next year.

 

The studio overall had some great results, several World qualifiers. I'd been curious to see how things would go as five of last year's Worlds participants weren't competing this fall, three were out with injuries, one of the guys gave up dance to play football (now there's an interesting transition!) not sure what happened with the other.

 

I'm sorry it wasn't a great experience, but it sounds like your dd has a good attitude about it all and is excited to try again next year. My dd was kind of borderline for doing solos, but I think doing trad sets the first year is a much less stressful intro to O's, so I'm glad that's what she did. As it was, she was disappointed to get 6th because the top 5 got trophies instead of medals, so I think doing solos and not recalling would have been much harder for her. By next year, she will be more competitive in solos.

 

I'm sorry the team comp didn't go well. It's a big burden for the ones who feel they messed up. Our U15 4-hand team has now gotten 4th place 2 years in a row - and both years, they went on the wrong side of the stage and had to move, so they felt like that kept them out of the top 3. In both cases, the kids in the back row knew that they were on the wrong side, but they had to follow the ones in front. For dd's 8-hand, one of the kids counted them off to bow before the bell rang, and at least two of them pointed before they realized it wasn't time yet - including my dd. So they were upset about that, knowing that it might have cost them a higher placement and feeling like the teacher was upset with them. They work so hard all year and try so hard not to mess up when they get there.

 

We had a few kids that were just several placements away from World Qualified, so maybe next year. We have a small studio, but the owner has a vision of building a world-class school. What our teacher has done in 2 years is incredible, and it's very exciting to be a part of it. 

 

ETA: I was looking at pictures and comments on facebook, and I realized that our over 15 8-hand team is world-qualified. Unfortunately, it might be a long shot for all 8 to be able to commit to go to worlds. 

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Thank you, that is very helpful.

 

Irish dance is not as heavily female dominated as ballet (though boys are still the minority); I am finding ballet harder to navigate, but my hope is too build some strong basic dance technique. I've been particularly worried by the frequency of injuries at our Irish studio.

 

I've read that ID teachers are not as well trained as ballet teachers in proper form and injury protection. One thing that has helped our school immensely is a workshop done by a physical therapist whose specialty is biomechanics.  He and his colleagues are the PT's for the Carolina Ballet, so you know they are the best in our city. A lot of our kids are now his patients. He is all about injury prevention and not just treating injuries. Our daughter sees him about every 3 weeks, and in between she has exercises to do that are based on her weakest area.  He started with her hips, because her hip strength was in the 40s when it should have been at least equal to her body weight (80 lbs).  Now that her hips are stronger, her knees are her weakest area and they developed tendonitis, so her exercises are geared to strengthen her knees. So far, our insurance has paid for all of her appointments, but if they stop, we will keep going because we've seen how important this is. If your city has a professional ballet company, call and ask which physical therapists they use, because they will be the best for Irish dancers too.

 

ETA: Our PT also works with dd on correcting her form, making sure she's turning out only from the hips and not using her knees, and not pronating her feet and knees.  She has great ankle flexibility, but part of it is because she pronates, so he showed her how not to do that. He was a pole vaulter, but didn't make it to the Olympics because he always seemed to be injured, so he has a passion for understanding the causes of injury in order to prevent it.

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I've read that ID teachers are not as well trained as ballet teachers in proper form and injury protection. One thing that has helped our school immensely is a workshop done by a physical therapist whose specialty is biomechanics. He and his colleagues are the PT's for the Carolina Ballet, so you know they are the best in our city. A lot of our kids are now his patients. He is all about injury prevention and not just treating injuries. Our daughter sees him about every 3 weeks, and in between she has exercises to do that are based on her weakest area. He started with her hips, because her hip strength was in the 40s when it should have been at least equal to her body weight (80 lbs). Now that her hips are stronger, her knees are her weakest area and they developed tendonitis, so her exercises are geared to strengthen her knees. So far, our insurance has paid for all of her appointments, but if they stop, we will keep going because we've seen how important this is. If your city has a professional ballet company, call and ask which physical therapists they use, because they will be the best for Irish dancers too.

That is a great idea! Did you have to do anything in particular to get the insurance to pay for physical therapy, such as a referral from a primary care doctor?

 

I know our TC is concerned about the injury rate, but he doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

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That is a great idea! Did you have to do anything in particular to get the insurance to pay for physical therapy, such as a referral from a primary care doctor?

 

I know our TC is concerned about the injury rate, but he doesn't seem to know what to do about it.

 

I think our insurance does require a referral, which we got from our family doctor after a sprained foot. 

 

Is your TC making sure that the students are conditioning and stretching enough? Our kids worked through T25 *as a warm-up* for class to condition and build strength. Sometimes they stretch for 20 minutes before they start dancing. We were having a lot of injuries too, so I'm glad to see the owner and TC being proactive. Also, after longer classes, we fill a trashcan with ice water and the students get in it two at a time for two-five minutes, depending on how long they can stand it.

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