Got my son's results from his eval

[Mom0012]

Here was my original post where I said I was going to be taking my son in for testing.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/482710-hitting-a-wall/

 

Here are the results I got today from the WISC IV (please don't quote his results. I'm not going to want to leave them up on the net forever.)

 

(Deleted)

 

Honestly, this is better than I had hoped for. I thought some of the lows were going to be much lower. We had quite a shock when we took my sdd in a few years ago and she came back with low IQ.

 

Anyway, the thing that was so affirming is that I have been going around for years with this language disorder diagnosis for him, and I started to realize that the language issues might be more a symptom of working memory, and it looks like that is the case. The doctor said it is not a language disability, but a combination of problems with visual processing, which is greatly effecting his working memory. Right now I don't understand that. I'm still trying to digest it all.

 

The cool thing is he recommended the program where you can get all your books on tape, and I just started him in his first textbook for a science this year - Apologia - which I selected solely because it offered the audio component. He also recommended I have him do a lot of outlining, and I had just pulled him from the IEW class he's been taking for the last 4 years so I could spend more time focusing on outlining with him. I just knew he needed to focus on this.

 

His other recommendations were to work on building his confidence, and that is one reason he's going into Jann's in TX's class for math. He needs extra time to respond to questions, so I'm going to e-mail his coop/online class teachers and make sure they know this.

 

I still don't know what to do with him about the typing. We've got a program we're going to try and then maybe Dvorak. This testing didn't really focus on the handwriting issue. The psych said even in his multi-step algebra problems he had everything all lined up, but maybe it's because I've beat it in to him, LOL.

 

Anyway, I'd love to hear any thoughts, especially about the visual processing issue. I was thinking of working on jigsaw puzzles with him, but I'm not sure what else I can do.

 

another recommendation was chunking info (which was kind of neat because I just read Why Students Don't Like to Learn and that's one of the recommendations made in there to help work around lower working memory). He also recommended having him copy writing of great writers, which I thought was interesting. He said I can call him back once I've had time to go through the report, so I need to read everything again and come up with a list of all my questions.

 

Anyway, I know I shouldn't be excited about documenting my son's ld, but the doctor said he was doing really well and it all turned out so much better than I had hoped. He was supposed to start language therapy again in the fall, and now I'm not going to do that because he doesn't have a language disability. Things just make so much more sense now.

[SpecialClassical]

I don't have any thoughts about visual processing, but I know how it feels to get those results. It is such a relief to have light shed on the situation, especially when you are trying to piece it together on your own.

[PeterPan]

Well super duper congrats on getting your results!!!!!!!!!!  You sound so very relieved?  I'm glad for you.  I always thought that language disorder thing was kinda weird, but I just SHUT UP sometimes.  :)  So then on the vision thing, did he suggest a developmental vision eval?  That sure would be my next question.  COVD is where you find them.  I'd want to know if there's a physical reason for it.

 

That processing speed is lower than his verbal, but it's not like terrible low down in the dumps.  Did he give you an adjusted IQ?  They can do a GAI if the Full IQ is getting pulled down by certain things.  Can make a difference.  No matter what, he's a very bright boy!!  :D  

 

I'm not much of a tea leaf reader beyond that.  My dd's processing speed was half that.  I'm just really no help there.  Working memory is pretty straightforward to work on.  It can be visual or auditory.  And actually, did geof here recently say also kinesthetic?  Anyway, I wouldn't fiddle with visual working memory till you get his vision checked.  How does he do with puzzles?  You mentioned them, and they're good, sure.  But personally I'd get his vision checked before you go rushing in.  That way you don't get any negative reaction if there IS a weakness there visually.  There are visual parameters like figure/ground, visual memory, blah blah.  Basically, if your vision and visual processing is off in certain ways, it can make puzzles a BEAR.  Since you know vision is part of his mix, I'd get a GOOD covd doc and see what they find.  But that's just my two cents.  :)

 

As far as a good COVD doc, well I'd be willing to drive several hours.  Don't go to a crumb-bucket one.  Sell your cat and dog and their houses.  It's pricey, yes, but it may be extremely enlightening to you.  You're going to need the full eval, seems to me.  Start with just the basic eval if the doc is close enough and have them screen, sure, but seems to me you need to go all the way and have them figure out why he's having the vision problems.

 

So did the doc give you a label?  You don't have to say, but I was just uber-curious, sorry.  :)

 

Oh, when I had my dd evaled by the dev. optometrist, she had the visual memory of a 2 yo.  Sorta explained why she couldn't remember how to form her letters!  Think about that and that typing and like why something that uses vision as part of it might not work right...  So did the psych identify any dysgraphia or motor control issues?  With dd he said upfront her motor control for her handwriting was not automatic.  I don't know what he tested on that that showed that.

 

Well congrats again.  I'm glad it made you so peaceful, and that's AWESOME that he's giving you so much time to review his comments and come back in for more questions.  That will be fabulous. 

[PeterPan]

Pastel, btw (if you're not sick of me yet!), you might consider him doing that outlining with mindmapping software.  Outlining doesn't have to be *linear*.

 

On the imitation, it can be *creative* if you want.  (intentionally opening a can of worms there!)  :D

[Mom0012]

Well super duper congrats on getting your results!!!!!!!!!! You sound so very relieved? I'm glad for you. I always thought that language disorder thing was kinda weird, but I just SHUT UP sometimes. :) So then on the vision thing, did he suggest a developmental vision eval? That sure would be my next question. COVD is where you find them. I'd want to know if there's a physical reason for it.

 

That processing speed is lower than his verbal, but it's not like terrible low down in the dumps. Did he give you an adjusted IQ? They can do a GAI if the Full IQ is getting pulled down by certain things. Can make a difference. No matter what, he's a very bright boy!! :D

 

I'm not much of a tea leaf reader beyond that. My dd's processing speed was half that. I'm just really no help there. Working memory is pretty straightforward to work on. It can be visual or auditory. And actually, did geof here recently say also kinesthetic? Anyway, I wouldn't fiddle with visual working memory till you get his vision checked. How does he do with puzzles? You mentioned them, and they're good, sure. But personally I'd get his vision checked before you go rushing in. That way you don't get any negative reaction if there IS a weakness there visually. There are visual parameters like figure/ground, visual memory, blah blah. Basically, if your vision and visual processing is off in certain ways, it can make puzzles a BEAR. Since you know vision is part of his mix, I'd get a GOOD covd doc and see what they find. But that's just my two cents. :)

 

As far as a good COVD doc, well I'd be willing to drive several hours. Don't go to a crumb-bucket one. Sell your cat and dog and their houses. It's pricey, yes, but it may be extremely enlightening to you. You're going to need the full eval, seems to me. Start with just the basic eval if the doc is close enough and have them screen, sure, but seems to me you need to go all the way and have them figure out why he's having the vision problems.

 

So did the doc give you a label? You don't have to say, but I was just uber-curious, sorry. :)

 

Oh, when I had my dd evaled by the dev. optometrist, she had the visual memory of a 2 yo. Sorta explained why she couldn't remember how to form her letters! Think about that and that typing and like why something that uses vision as part of it might not work right... So did the psych identify any dysgraphia or motor control issues? With dd he said upfront her motor control for her handwriting was not automatic. I don't know what he tested on that that showed that.

 

Well congrats again. I'm glad it made you so peaceful, and that's AWESOME that he's giving you so much time to review his comments and come back in for more questions. That will be fabulous.

I do feel relieved because it didn't seem there was anything left to do for him with the language disorder diagnosis. Plus, I was prepared for much lower scores because of my experience with my sdd.

 

Good Lord, he didn't give me an adjusted IQ and I have to admit I don't want one. I didn't know such a thing exists, even though I know he's going to struggle more than a child with an IQ where his is. If he didn't, we wouldn't need any help, right?

 

His diagnosis was Nonverbal Learning Disorder, but he said that didn't quite fit either. I have been trying to read through the report and it is very thick. Half of it is on the working memory, visual vs. verbal and I have to admit I'm having some trouble understanding it. I hadn't even looked up NVLD until 5 minutes ago because I basically came home from that appointment yesterday and slept for 5 hours. I never take a nap, let alone do that!

 

I did take him when he was a little guy to a doctor who supposedly did vision therapy, and she totally blew me off. I think she thought I wanted him to read at college level, but he was already reading well. I've listened to you talk about the vision therapy, thinking it didn't apply to us, but now you've got my attention. That is something I am definitely going to look into. He's not kinesthetic at all though. I don't think? I've always felt he's an auditory learner. He spends a lot of time listening to books on tape and I've always used SL with my kids, so lots of reading aloud. That has worked well. He doesn't do well at puzzles, but he's always reluctant to try. His sister is the puzzle wizard, which doesn't help.

 

Nothing about the dysgraphia. He didn't have to do a ton of writing, and he can keep his handwriting legible when putting in a full effort for a short period of time. There are like 5 types of dysgraphia, though, and this doctor was older, so I wonder if he's kept up with all that. I'm quite sure my son has motor dysgraphia and will probably take him to his old OT to see what she has to say. Apparently, she also has some typing readiness tests she can do on him.

 

Thanks, Elizabeth!

[Mom0012]

Pastel, btw (if you're not sick of me yet!), you might consider him doing that outlining with mindmapping software. Outlining doesn't have to be *linear*.

 

On the imitation, it can be *creative* if you want. (intentionally opening a can of worms there!) :D

Of course I'm not sick of you! Mind mapping was recommended as an alternative to outlining. I have tried that with him before, though, and he preferred outlining. I may give that another shot, though, to mix things up.

[Mom0012]

I'm looking at a site on NVLD, and I would say only about half of the description fits. My son doesn't have trouble reading emotions, and is actually one of the most sensitive and kind people I know. He is very nurturing to other people and loves to work with younger kids. His highest scores were in math. He's not impulsive and he's terrible at communicating. I definitely see where some of the other stuff fits, though.

[geodob]

Pastel, with Perceptual Reasoning it is a test of the combined use of Visual and Spatial thinking.

Where from your outline of your son's difficulties, it is more likely that he has a Spatial processing difficulty, which limits what he can do with his Visual processing?

Visual processing is the ability to form a mental image.

Spatial processing enables the manipulation of the image, and the ability to rearrange elements within it, and to add new elements.

While we can represent concepts with words and images.

It is Spatial processing that orders them. 

I would suggest that very likely he is able to form mental images.

But that he is unable to do things like rotate the image in his mind?

Or navigate the mental image?  Also to rearrange elements within a mental image ?

Spatial processing is also fundamental to fine and gross motor control, as the guidance system.

 

So that it is important to look at Visual and Spatial processing separately, to understand what his difficulty actually is?

 

[Heathermomster]

I'm assuming that you've seen this thread already, but I'll post it anyways.  Blessings,h

[Mom0012]

Pastel, with Perceptual Reasoning it is a test of the combined use of Visual and Spatial thinking.

Where from your outline of your son's difficulties, it is more likely that he has a Spatial processing difficulty, which limits what he can do with his Visual processing?

Visual processing is the ability to form a mental image.

Spatial processing enables the manipulation of the image, and the ability to rearrange elements within it, and to add new elements.

While we can represent concepts with words and images.

It is Spatial processing that orders them. 

I would suggest that very likely he is able to form mental images.

But that he is unable to do things like rotate the image in his mind?

Or navigate the mental image?  Also to rearrange elements within a mental image ?

Spatial processing is also fundamental to fine and gross motor control, as the guidance system.

 

So that it is important to look at Visual and Spatial processing separately, to understand what his difficulty actually is?

Thanks!  I'm still trying to weed through all the information in this report and come up with a list of questions, but yes, we were told that while working memory was low, the visual processing was the real cause.  Interestingly, he did 6 weeks of intensive therapy at Lindamood Bell when he was 5 -- Visualizing and Verbalizing -- for people who don't visualize what they are hearing or reading.  It helped him tremendously with his receptive language.  Now, I am just wondering what, if anything, I can do to help him with this further.  He just did another shorter round with them a year and a half ago to help him with his expressive language and writing skills and it didn't do much, if anything, for him.

 

I do think you are right that he forms the mental images, but that he may not be able to manipulate them in his mind.  He has a very difficult time organizing his thoughts and I'm beginning to realize that is why he cannot write a paper without treating it as a research paper even if he is completely familiar with the subject.  He can tell me everything about the subject, but can't write until we find some articles about it, and write an outline from the articles.  Any other thoughts or resources you have on visual processing would be appreciated.

[Mom0012]

I'm assuming that you've seen this thread already, but I'll post it anyways.  Blessings,h

Thanks, Heather.  I didn't see this and didn't know there was an NLD social group.  I'll definitely pick up the books that are recommended in that thread and see if I can figure out how to join the group.

[Mom0012]

The more I read through this report, the more confused I am.

[Mom0012]

Pastel, with Perceptual Reasoning it is a test of the combined use of Visual and Spatial thinking.

Where from your outline of your son's difficulties, it is more likely that he has a Spatial processing difficulty, which limits what he can do with his Visual processing?

Visual processing is the ability to form a mental image.

Spatial processing enables the manipulation of the image, and the ability to rearrange elements within it, and to add new elements.

While we can represent concepts with words and images.

It is Spatial processing that orders them.

I would suggest that very likely he is able to form mental images.

But that he is unable to do things like rotate the image in his mind?

Or navigate the mental image? Also to rearrange elements within a mental image ?

Spatial processing is also fundamental to fine and gross motor control, as the guidance system.

 

So that it is important to look at Visual and Spatial processing separately, to understand what his difficulty actually is?

When we went over the results, I was told that visual processing was the weakest area and contributed to the weak working memory. But, I will specifically ask about this vs. spatial processing when I talk to the psych again. I didn't quite get what you were saying the first time I responded because I'm so overwhelmed with information. There is a 26 page report just on the memory subtests that were done, and it's very difficult to understand.

[Tokyomarie]

Wow! 26 pages just on the memory subtests??!! How long is the full report? Our full report was "only" 14 pages, but it took me a month of reading over and over it to get to the point where I could make a list of big questions about it. I did meet our neuropsychologist a second time to get those questions answered. I have actually met with him a handful of times since then to get advice as certain situations have come up requiring decisions to be made.

[Mom0012]

Wow! 26 pages just on the memory subtests??!! How long is the full report? Our full report was "only" 14 pages, but it took me a month of reading over and over it to get to the point where I could make a list of big questions about it. I did meet our neuropsychologist a second time to get those questions answered. I have actually met with him a handful of times since then to get advice as certain situations have come up requiring decisions to be made.

Marie, I would say the main part of the report is about the same length as yours. I think he did such in depth testing on the memory section because there was a 27 point difference between my son's verbal comp score and his working memory score. He was trying to nail down the issue more specifically.

 

I spent all day yesterday reading about NLD (very depressing after my initial high with his scores) and then reading through the report in pieces and then all the way through. I feel pressured to do it as quickly as possible while I am still on the psych's mind, so he remembers as much as possible about my son when I talk with him, but, like you, it is going to take me some time to get all my questions together. After reading the section on memory, I am disappointed with the very limited recommendations he gave me. I feel that if he had given me better recs, then I wouldn't need to try to understand all the nuances of his memory issue. Once again, I feel like I am going to have to go to the ends of the earth to figure out what to do with my son because the professionals are never very good at giving suggestions for remediation.

[PeterPan]

Oh Pastel, you've got me laughing here.   :lol:   The guy gives you 14 pages and another 27 pages, but you're complaining cuz he didn't spell out to you every single option for what you could do?   :)  Dude, I got *6* pages from our psych (actually I didn't count them, but something like that), and that's pretty much the norm around here.  I read about these longer reports with total psych envy.  :D

 

You're going through a mourning stage, and you might not have slowed down enough to realize it.  It's totally normal to feel whomped by the diagnosis.  It's not a label you even had on your RADAR, so it's a total shock.  And you've got what you had dreamed and some ideas shattered (like that this was just something you'd "fix" and it would go away...).  It's not the psych.  It's you and just the reality of what this is.  

 

Our psych had really general recommendations (go out of the box, don't worry because her high level overall balances things out, take advantage of services, consider a couple options like Cogmed).  Beyond that, he wasn't real specific, kwim?  The dude analyzes heads, not curriculum.  It sounds like you've gotten a TON of help from your psych.  Start making your list of questions.  I had 4 pages, and what I did was write them all out with space between for the answers.  That way I could note things quickly as we talked.  It was SO helpful, not just for the specifics but for realizing that at every turn his answer was the same (go out of the box, don't be afraid, she's going to be fine).  We asked about long-term things (college, jobs, etc.), current things (chores, school work, etc.).  I went through every single subject, probably driving the man CRAZY.  And you know me, I can really drive someone crazy!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

You're doing great.  You're going to feel better in 6 months or a year than you do now.  You'll get there.  

 

So you're saying his working memory was an oddity?  You've got me totally curious to pull out my dd's scores.  Yup, I just checked.  My dd's working memory %ile was almost as low as her processing speed.  And both those were half yours.  So it does get worse.   :)  Or as they say, some kids are the half that makes the other half possible.   :)  There must be something though that he's catching and wanting to tease apart on that working memory.  Hopefully when you figure that out, you'll know how to approach it.  WM isn't fixed, so there's definitely room for improvement there.

 

Btw, you kind of gasped when I suggested you as for that adjusted IQ, but actually it would go UP.   :)

 

Keep going.  You're going great!  This is just the ugghy stage.

[Mom0012]

Oh Pastel, you've got me laughing here.   :lol:   The guy gives you 14 pages and another 27 pages, but you're complaining cuz he didn't spell out to you every single option for what you could do?   :)  Dude, I got *6* pages from our psych (actually I didn't count them, but something like that), and that's pretty much the norm around here.  I read about these longer reports with total psych envy.   :D

 

You're going through a mourning stage, and you might not have slowed down enough to realize it.  It's totally normal to feel whomped by the diagnosis.  It's not a label you even had on your RADAR, so it's a total shock.  And you've got what you had dreamed and some ideas shattered (like that this was just something you'd "fix" and it would go away...).  It's not the psych.  It's you and just the reality of what this is.  

 

Our psych had really general recommendations (go out of the box, don't worry because her high level overall balances things out, take advantage of services, consider a couple options like Cogmed).  Beyond that, he wasn't real specific, kwim?  The dude analyzes heads, not curriculum.  It sounds like you've gotten a TON of help from your psych.  Start making your list of questions.  I had 4 pages, and what I did was write them all out with space between for the answers.  That way I could note things quickly as we talked.  It was SO helpful, not just for the specifics but for realizing that at every turn his answer was the same (go out of the box, don't be afraid, she's going to be fine).  We asked about long-term things (college, jobs, etc.), current things (chores, school work, etc.).  I went through every single subject, probably driving the man CRAZY.  And you know me, I can really drive someone crazy!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

You're doing great.  You're going to feel better in 6 months or a year than you do now.  You'll get there.  

 

So you're saying his working memory was an oddity?  You've got me totally curious to pull out my dd's scores.  Yup, I just checked.  My dd's working memory %ile was almost as low as her processing speed.  And both those were half yours.  So it does get worse.   :)  Or as they say, some kids are the half that makes the other half possible.   :)  There must be something though that he's catching and wanting to tease apart on that working memory.  Hopefully when you figure that out, you'll know how to approach it.  WM isn't fixed, so there's definitely room for improvement there.

 

Btw, you kind of gasped when I suggested you as for that adjusted IQ, but actually it would go UP.   :)

 

Keep going.  You're going great!  This is just the ugghy stage.

Well, I guess I shouldn't complain about getting all the information about memory.  I'm glad the tests were done, but the report is almost impossible for me to understand.  It actually says not to distribute the report to a layperson, and I am a layperson.  BUT, I am stubborn enough that I WILL understand it and figure out what to do with it.

 

I know I am mourning.  I've gone through this before when he was little, and it's one of the reasons I avoided doing a thorough eval again all these years.  It's been much easier this time around because his numbers were so much better than what I had expected, but after spending all day yesterday reading about NLD, I was ready to jump.  Of course, what I am reading are worse case scenarios that really don't fit him in many ways, but I was forgetting that as I was lost in reading about it all. 

 

One of the traps for me is wanting to fix everything.  I spent years doing that when my ds was a little guy, and a lot of what I did was worth it, but it got to the point where I just had to stop, let go, and accept.  Apparently, NLD is a disorder you "grow into", so it becomes more apparent as you get older.  That's why I'd started to feel like we were floundering enough to go through with a new evaluation.  And I'm glad we did.

 

I did gasp about the IQ because I thought it would go down, and frankly, that's my only comfort, even though I know it is not the best indicator of academic success.  Really, I just want my boy to be happy.  So far he is, but I feel like we'll need to work hard to keep it that way.

 

Anyway, Elizabeth, I always enjoy your comments and find them helpful.   :001_smile:

[geodob]

Pastel, I would be interested to know what your son's left/right coordination are like?

As this is fundamental to spatial processing.

The brain uses these opposing sides to concieve of beginning and end points.

Where the beginning is concieved of on the left side.

We use these opposing sides to concieve of greater/smaller, yesterday/tomorrow, etc.  

It is also how we concieve of quantities and numbers. 

 

But a crucial element that locating beginning and end points provide?

Is that these opposing points create a space in between them.

Where this mental space, can be used to order 'things' between them. From beginning to end.

Also most importantly, a sense of where each 'thing' is located in this order, and how they relate to each other.

In the same way that you would have a sense of where 4 and 7 are located, between 1 and 10.

 

Where we also use this to organize our thoughts.  

So that we can concieve of how our thoughts fit together and support each other, to arrive at a conclusion.

With verbal and written expression, we begin at conclusion and then order the thoughts we will use to arrive at it.

Then begin with the first word.

So that when you say that he has a very difficult time organizing his thoughts?

This could provide an explanation?

[Mom0012]

Pastel, I would be interested to know what your son's left/right coordination are like?

As this is fundamental to spatial processing.

The brain uses these opposing sides to concieve of beginning and end points.

Where the beginning is concieved of on the left side.

We use these opposing sides to concieve of greater/smaller, yesterday/tomorrow, etc.

It is also how we concieve of quantities and numbers.

 

But a crucial element that locating beginning and end points provide?

Is that these opposing points create a space in between them.

Where this mental space, can be used to order 'things' between them. From beginning to end.

Also most importantly, a sense of where each 'thing' is located in this order, and how they relate to each other.

In the same way that you would have a sense of where 4 and 7 are located, between 1 and 10.

 

Where we also use this to organize our thoughts.

So that we can concieve of how our thoughts fit together and support each other, to arrive at a conclusion.

With verbal and written expression, we begin at conclusion and then order the thoughts we will use to arrive at it.

Then begin with the first word.

So that when you say that he has a very difficult time organizing his thoughts?

This could provide an explanation?

He has poor gross motor skills. He has been on the swim team for 4 years and still can't do the flutter kick. When he walks fast, he doesn't move his arms at all. He did OT years ago and made major improvements. He also did a program called Neuronet, which we may be doing again since it is now available online. I also did NILD's rhythmic writing program at home with him for two years, which involves drawing shapes on a chalkboard and speaking while you are doing it.

 

I'm not sure how to compare his left to his right though. Any ideas? I think your thoughts on this are interesting. Is there anything to help him in this area that you are aware of?

 

Thanks!

[PeterPan]

Our dev. optom. screened dd for bilaterality issues during the eval, and of course she had them.  It will show up with basic things like any motion that is cross-body.  So if you watched how dd crawled, it was really screwy.  Apparently it's in the cerebellum.  (I have no clue what I'm talking about and didn't get enough sleep.)  That's why we had screwy things like her being able to read sheet music and tell you the names of the notes OR being able to strike the note when told a name but NOT being able to read and strike.  Apparently you have to cross the divide to go through those steps, rather than staying on just one side of the brain.

 

So the theory then is any time you're doing stuff with bilaterality, you're making more wiring in the cerebellm, which means more pathways for other things that are bilateral.  Dianne Craft (?) has her 8's activities and whatnot.  We did some OT.  IM exercises and heather's metronome homework with the app will work on it.  You can look up activities for cross-crawling, etc.  We went back and did some of that.  It's all good, it's still a weakness.  

 

Personally, I'm so impressed with the power of the metronome activities (with bilaterality, with digit spans) to effect change, I think it's the most under-utilized option out there.  Costs almost NOTHING and is insanely powerful, pulling together all the affected areas and weak areas in the kids.  And if it doesn't nothing for you, well you're out nothing.

 

PS. There's also some theorizing that you need vestibular and whatnot to get the brain perking and ready for IM.  Vestibular develops earlier, so when you go back and work on that it allows you to go in developmental order.  I think it might explain why sometimes IM doesn't seem to take.  

[Mom0012]

Our dev. optom. screened dd for bilaterality issues during the eval, and of course she had them. It will show up with basic things like any motion that is cross-body. So if you watched how dd crawled, it was really screwy. Apparently it's in the cerebellum. (I have no clue what I'm talking about and didn't get enough sleep.) That's why we had screwy things like her being able to read sheet music and tell you the names of the notes OR being able to strike the note when told a name but NOT being able to read and strike. Apparently you have to cross the divide to go through those steps, rather than staying on just one side of the brain.

 

So the theory then is any time you're doing stuff with bilaterality, you're making more wiring in the cerebellm, which means more pathways for other things that are bilateral. Dianne Craft (?) has her 8's activities and whatnot. We did some OT. IM exercises and heather's metronome homework with the app will work on it. You can look up activities for cross-crawling, etc. We went back and did some of that. It's all good, it's still a weakness.

 

Personally, I'm so impressed with the power of the metronome activities (with bilaterality, with digit spans) to effect change, I think it's the most under-utilized option out there. Costs almost NOTHING and is insanely powerful, pulling together all the affected areas and weak areas in the kids. And if it doesn't nothing for you, well you're out nothing.

 

PS. There's also some theorizing that you need vestibular and whatnot to get the brain perking and ready for IM. Vestibular develops earlier, so when you go back and work on that it allows you to go in developmental order. I think it might explain why sometimes IM doesn't seem to take.

Part of the rhythmic writing program I spoke about earlier involves drawing large 8's on a chalkboard while saying which direction you are going. That was pretty difficult for me son every time his hand switched direction.

 

I wonder how much IM and Neuronet are alike. When I was reading about NLD, an ad for their program popped up. Here is a sample of the exercises for older children. http://www.neuronetlearning.com/eng/tools-for-learning-program-video-demo/

[PeterPan]

I looked at neuronet a while back and it's definitely fascinating.  I just haven't done anything with it to have much intelligent opinion.  It certainly seemed reasonable.  The metronome work you can do at home for free.  Not saying it's better, just saying free makes stuff look pretty good.  :)

[Mom0012]

I looked at neuronet a while back and it's definitely fascinating. I just haven't done anything with it to have much intelligent opinion. It certainly seemed reasonable. The metronome work you can do at home for free. Not saying it's better, just saying free makes stuff look pretty good. :)

I agree free is nice! I was just really surprised to see Neuronet now available at home. It's about $350 for a year, which is pretty cheap in the world of therapy. I think the draw for me there is that it is something i'm familiar with and the program is all figured out for me. I need to look at my notes again about how Heather implemented the metronome. I'm just so overwhelmed, I'm looking for easy. I haven't decided on anything at this point. I'm still just making a list of possibilities.

[PeterPan]

Maybe you have kind of an initiation hump or transition thing yourself with the programs?  Maybe just download a metronome app and try Heather's instructions yourself, without him, just to see what it would be like?  Then you could see for yourself the differences.  If you can't remember the 4 activities, write them on a card so you remember to go in order.  Do it in front of a clock so you can keep track of what you're doing.

[geodob]

Pastel, your mention of his difficulty with flutter kick when swimming, not moving his arms when walking fast and switching hand direction when writing?

Provides a greater insight.

While we have bi-lateral using our left and right sides.

 

We also have quad-lateral and octo-lateral ?

 

While bi-lateral is left and right.  We also have upper and lower left and right,

So that from 2 points, we now have 4 points.

 

But then we also front and back.

So that lower left, has in front and behind added to it.

So that we now have 8 opposing points and octo-lateral.

 

When you wrote that he switches direction with large 8's   I'm thinking that these are the side-ways 8's ?

So that the switching, would be with starting with an up or down stroke?

Which suggests that up and down aren't clearly located as opposing points?

 

With his inability to do the 'flutter kick'?

I would speculate that if he sat at the edge of the pool. That he could do the flutter kick movement with his legs and feet?

Where his difficulty when swimming, is with coordinating the upper movement of his arms , with lower movement of his legs?

This would also explain why he doesn't move his arms at all, when walking fast?

When walking slower, this would provide time to be switching attention back and forth, from the arms to the legs when walking.

But their isn't enough for this, when walking fast.

So that I wonder if his upper/ lower connection needs to be further developed?

 

Perhaps you could a simple test with him?

Ask him to place his hands on the table in front of him, with his palms facing down.

Then ask him to close his eyes.  Then to tell you which way his hands are facing?

Where I would be interested to know if he says that they are facing 'up'?

Also when he ties his shoe laces.  Does he lean down to do it, or bring his foot up?