Moms of boys....

[Valerie in Chicago]

saw this article today and wondered what your opinions are (my two dc are both girls).

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121814900158422243.html?mod=hps_us_pageone

[Brindee]

Well, I know some that want their children to read so much that they don't care what they read. That's the category this falls into in my mind.

 

But we've always been able to find things of interest for our boys to read without going to those types of stories. So, FOR MY PERSONAL FAMILY and value system, I totally disagree that you have to resort to that kind of thing to get them to read!

[~Tara~]

I dunno...

My boys like a good sword fight and gore and grossness, sure.

But, they are every bit, if not moreso, enthralled with a biography (more so an autobiography) of a great man of faith.

Eldest is presently reading, or may have just finished one on George Meuller (sp?) Every day he would come to me or hubs spouting off some wonderful tidbit. He was just in awe of this man. He is now anxious to read of Adoniram Judson.

 

I certainly don't think it *takes* blood and gore to get a boy to read. There are things equally as enticing and adventure filled, but without the 'evilness', kwim?

[Mama Lynx]

I have four boys and they rarely read books like that.

 

The two older ones are reading Lord of the Rings (by choice). One is also reading Asimov's Foundation series. One is reading Heinlein. They devour science fiction. And they love to listen to me read Little House on the Prairie.

 

While I think the gross books are fun, to a point, I think it's really selling boys short to say that's what it takes.

 

If boys aren't reading, it's not because reading material lacks grossness.

[Danestress]

A lot. Enough that sometimes I find myself starting to say, "Get off that darn sofa, put the book down, and do some ..... school work!" They also like sports and building forts and shooting nerf guns at each other, so I am not saying they just sit and read Elizabethan poetry all day, but they are pretty much like I am. If they have a good book, they will dive into it and read it cover to cover if no one interrupts them. They like both fiction and non-fiction (one in particular reads a lot of non-fiction, though he reads the most of any of us, with plenty of fiction incluced).

 

My twins are 10 and my oldest son is 20. None of them really have gone for the "gross" factor. I'm not sure why. It's not that they don't appreciate a good "toot" moment. But when that "grossology" exhibit came to the local science museum, they didn't really get into it. About half way through, they both said it was sort of gross and stupid.

 

I'm not sure if my older son has seen many of the horror films that seem to be all over Blockbuster - if he has, he probably hasn't felt like Mom is the person you bring that up with. So perhaps I am clueless. But he never really seemed to go for horror as a reading genre. I would say he's more an "action" kind of kid. My younger boys don't seem to like that either, but maybe they are just young. They like books like Redwall that involve animals more than more "edgy" science fiction or horror.

 

And I take great exception to the allegation that the literature that my generation grew up with was "drier." I don't think so!

 

That said, none of my boys had access to video games growing up. I guess maybe it's true that if you start boys early on really exciting, violent video games, they might develop a taste for that rather than reading.

[Sasharowan]

I have found humor to be more motivating for my boys reading than gore or grossness. Of course, half those titles in the article would send my ds12 to the dr. sure he had a fatal disease. He has a tendency to get unnerved by germs, although not to the point of taking voluntary showers. :)

[Alice]

To me there was a wide difference in the books mentioned in the article. I wouldn't have a problem with my boys reading about Staph infections and all the gory details...personally I find that pretty cool and interesting too. Or even the history books if they are accurate, I'm ok with being told from a more sensational/gory perspective. That's if they are accurate. But the things like Captain Underpants or the last one mentioned was something about Sir Fartsalot...not so crazy about those.

 

I can see that the gory/gross stuff would appeal to my almost 5 yr old. He loves nature videos and the more realistic the carnage the better. He loves having me read him all the details of any science book, especially when it's kind of gross facts (like ants squirt acid out of their buts...hilarious to a 5 yr old boy. But also true and interesting.) When he gets together with his best friend they will have detailed conversations about how they are going to destroy the "bad guys". The things I've heard coming from them have shocked me in two boys who don't really watch much TV or movies or know much pop culture. I think it is just part of their make-up (for some boys, not all). He is totally obsessed with all things super-hero, which I'm not thrilled about, but I tolerate. It's a part of him I don't get. But it's also kind of interesting. :)

 

That got a little off the reading question...I guess I'd say that some of the books I'd be ok with and can see how they would appeal to boys. I wouldn't use them for school or have it be all they read. And there are other books I would strongly discourage or not allow.

 

ETA: I agree with Mama Lynx that it sells boys short to assume that books have to sink to a certain level to be appealing to them. I never really noticed or worried about the way the culture portrays boys until I became a Mom of boys. But I do think there is a certain assumption that "real" boys don't like books or reading and that is both wrong and unfortunate.

[Quiver0f10]

We have 7 boys and out of the 5 that can read, all enjoy reading except my 15 yo, who has recently begun to read more on his own! We have never allowed them to read super gory stuff and don't agree with the article at all.

[Kris]

saw this article today and wondered what your opinions are (my two dc are both girls).

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121814900158422243.html?mod=hps_us_pageone

 

Hum --

 

Well --

 

I guess it all depends on *why* you want your son to be reading. If it's just so you can say he did, well, then, okay.

 

Personally, I don't see it as a plus that he's reading if he's reading junk. It's very possible that the books they talk about do not fall into that category (I haven't read them and have no interest in doing so), but they sure don't sound like something I'd want him reading.

 

That said, I have never limited my son's reading and if he wanted to read these, I wouldn't try to stop him. This house is filled with books and none of them are "off limits" and when he was in public school I had to sent a note to the library every year giving my authorization for any book he wanted to check-out -- which was the result of the Harry Potter frenzy. I was just thankful I didn't have to send a note for each and every book!

 

But I don't think the problem is so much that boys like gross stuff in general, although that certainly seems to be the case with mine! I think the problem is that they're used to sensory overload. Video games and the special effects in movies make everything so much larger than life, I think they come to expect that all the time. It's got to be "over the top" to be entertaining.

 

We actually had a conversation about this in the last few weeks. He was telling me how boring some things are. I told him he can't expect huge explosions and other "special effects" in everything he does -- he will be sorely disappointed. He has to look for the "quieter" fascination in some of the things he does. I think he already does this and doesn't realize it.

 

We had a huge spider make a web right outside our window and he spent most of the evening watching it make the web -- and s/he made fast work of THAT! -- and catching the moths, etc. Okay, I guess that could be kind of gross, but it was kind of neet, too, and it's not like guts were being sprayed about. A few days later, we had a frog on the window, working it's way up as it ate the little gnats that were attracted to the light on the inside. The same frog comes back every few days for dinner.

 

So I guess my point is, I don't think the answer is to make things more and more disgusting and gory and nasty to try to encourage boys to expect the things in their lives to be even more exaggerated.

[Julie in Austin]

I think you can agree with the critique that teachers usually pick books that appeal to more stereotypically female interests than male ones without thinking that the solution to that problem is more books about farting.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think you can agree with the critique that teachers usually pick books that appeal to more stereotypically female interests than male ones without thinking that the solution to that problem is more books about farting.

:iagree:

[H.S. Burrow]

I haven't read all the other posts, but this statement is OPPOSITE my DS...he started reading - and I mean INHALING books! - at age 8 and hasn't stopped.

 

But research from Scholastic, the U.S. publisher of the wizard series, shows that children's interest in reading declines sharply starting at age 8 and continues to fall into the teens, especially among boys.

 

We don't do "gore" here and when he's a little older the sciencey ones might be cool, but he will read just about anything!

 

These are *some* of the books he's read this year:

 

Dragons in Our Midst series

Oracles of Fire series

Jack Sparrow series (below his reading level, but he likes Jack!)

Harry Potter series

Dragon series by Donita K Paul (only 4 books out)

Ranger's Apprentice series

 

He's read other books for school:

 

Beowulf (adapted for middle schoolers)

The Iliad (adapted for middle schoolers)

The Odyssey (adapted for middle schoolers)

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

Journey to the Center of the Earth (3/4 way through right now)

 

My kids - DS included! - LOVE to read. I have to limit book time instead of TV time!:lol:

[Brindee]

My kids - DS included! - LOVE to read. I have to limit book time instead of TV time!:lol:

 

Yep, me too. DS14 and dd "devour" books! I can't keep up with them!

[Valerie in Chicago]

Wow! These responses have been really interesting. They have also been VERY reassuring. I showed the article to DH, a city public high school teacher for the last 16 years. He was of the opinion that institutional education tends to be tailored towards girls and for that reason, it's probably *good* that boys don't read much until they are old enough to know (insert DH's word here) when they see it. And he was also extremely cautious about anything embraced by desperate teachers. Over the course of 15 minutes or so of discussion, he made what was actually a good point. (for the record, DH didn't really start reading much til about 16...and he's been a voracious reader since).

 

But I was interested to hear the opinions of those who actually have boys and who are ... what are the words I'm looking for here ... I don't know, I guess who seem really involved in what their kids are reading, who are involved much more in the decision-making process.

 

Thanks for responding to my humble question! Happy to hear any other thoughts.

[Colleen]

Since my guys love to read and/or be read to, the very title of the article didn't resonate with me. Beyond that, it strikes me as yet another example of assuming the worst of boys and, as Mama Lynx said, just plain selling them short. Furthermore, whether with regard to boys or girls, I can't stand this notion that getting reluctant readers to read anything is better than nothing. I don't agree. I'd rather a child get outside and move than sit on a couch and read some of the books described in this article.

 

Ya know, it never ceases to amaze me how few teachers and librarians are aware of the many wonderful books out there for children. Bookstores and school libraries and public libraries fall all over themselves trying to attract kids with the latest fad, by-passing altogether a myriad of great reads that have stood the test of time.

[ereks mom]

I wouldn't have a problem with my boys reading about Staph infections and all the gory details...personally I find that pretty cool and interesting too. Or even the history books if they are accurate, I'm ok with being told from a more sensational/gory perspective. That's if they are accurate. But the things like Captain Underpants or the last one mentioned was something about Sir Fartsalot...not so crazy about those.

 

 

 

:iagree:

[RoughCollie]

My boys, all of whom are avid readers, read most of the books that were mentioned in the article when they were younger. They loved them, and those books didn't hurt them at all.

 

RC

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I scanned the article, but disagreed with what I read for the most part. Sure, I'll find books that my boys connect with, but they won't be gory, gross, or crude books.

 

I understand that boys might need more adventure or something special to catch their interest, but what about My Side of the Mountain, or Treasure Island, or Swallows and Amazons, or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, or... I really could list a hundred high-quality books here.

 

My six-year old is probably not the norm, but he would listen to me read Anne of Green Gables or Secret Garden, or any number of other 'girl' books and love them.

[bkpan]

Since my guys love to read and/or be read to, the very title of the article didn't resonate with me. Beyond that, it strikes me as yet another example of assuming the worst of boys and, as Mama Lynx said, just plain selling them short. Furthermore, whether with regard to boys or girls, I can't stand this notion that getting reluctant readers to read anything is better than nothing. I don't agree. I'd rather a child get outside and move than sit on a couch and read some of the books described in this article.

 

Ya know, it never ceases to amaze me how few teachers and librarians are aware of the many wonderful books out there for children. Bookstores and school libraries and public libraries fall all over themselves trying to attract kids with the latest fad, by-passing altogether a myriad of great reads that have stood the test of time.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: As the mom of 5 boys, I wouldn't consider any of those titles mentioned worthy of ds' energy. We do have some influence over their appetites - give them cr@p, and that's what they'll get hungry for. There are so many worthwhile titles to choose from (including many with action and gore).

 

Kim

[Kris]

I understand that boys might need more adventure or something special to catch their interest, but what about My Side of the Mountain, or Treasure Island, or Swallows and Amazons, or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, or... I really could list a hundred high-quality books here.

 

Treasure Island is the one that helped turn my reluctant reader into someone who is at *least* willing to give a book a chance. I just read it again myself this past year. What fun that was!

[Laura K (NC)]

Observation: Boys don't read.

Solution: push the "shock" value to make reading more attractive.

 

This same "solution" causes more and more shocking commercials, TV programs, morning talk radio, and disgusting ads on web sites. The thing is, it's the wrong solution. How about this one:

 

Observation: Boys don't read.

Solution: Get the overwhelmingly female staff to stop designing booklists and stocking school libraries with stories overwhelmingly picked to empower young ladies and make young men feel like neanderthals. Give boys competitive games, allow them to run with sticks and play with guns and get dirty and have recess and play dodgeball, and don't substitute indulging their natural inclinations for dirt and physical play with books that glorify the worst of boys' "unfortunate" habits. The marketing follows a sexist tendency in schools.

 

Now, given that rant, my boys fart, burp, and laugh at potty humor. They used to love Captain Underpants books, so I can't say that I'm real consistent here. The idea of relying on racier and racier material because boys just won't read otherwise is so lame, though. It's a cop-out -- an easy way to bypass literacy instead of promoting a kind of literacy that recognizes and promotes the needs of boys. Put more Henty, Albert Marrin, Brian Jacques, Tolkien, and Sutcliff towards the front of a boys' reading list. Add books about heroes who do great things. Don't eliminate the Roald Dahl, the Captain Underpants books, and the other more gross authors, but don't make them the main course. Certainly don't consider them a substitution for literacy, or a cure for illiteracy.

[tristangrace]

Total highjack here, but I couldn't resist when I saw the "in Chicago" part of your name! At first I was suspicious that you might be "Valerie in the Chicago area", but then I checked out your blog. I live in the Uptown neighborhood, so not far from you. Maybe we'll meet IRL sometime. I only know of two other families homeschooling in the city.

 

Anyway, just saying "hey"!

 

Susan

[tristangrace]

OK, now that I've actually read the article you linked, here are my two cents:

 

If (as the article seemed to imply) the girls are reading "Little House" and "Charlotte's Web" and the boys are reading "The Day My Butt Went Psycho", then I'm not sure the strategy is going to close the literacy gap.

 

But then, I haven't read "Butt." Perhaps it is a finely crafted piece of literature far superior to anything dry ol' Wilder and White wrote.

 

Susan

[DB in NJ]

No, no, no. What inspired a love of reading in my boys was listening to good books being read to them (either by me or books on tape) and then wanting to read those books themselves. My 17 yo has always loved reading (thank you FIAR and Sonlight), and he lists among his favorite books (that he has read himself) Pagoo, Golden Goblet, Bronze Bow, Mere Christianity, Here I Sand (Martin Luther biography), Uncle Tom's Cabin, and The Hiding Place (although the last 2 make him sad and he's reluctant to call them "favorites" because of the sadness).

 

My 9 yo loves to read -- it just has to be a good story (not gross or gory. Just good.). He does not need to read about farting or *ahem* the "Butt" series :rolleyes: -- again, thank you Sonlight.

 

Not for nothin', but my dd is the one who likes to read stuff like Twilight, etc. And she's the only one of my kids who's read HP. She would no sooner pick up the Little House books than she'd fly to the moon. Go figure.

[melmac]

I have two boys and I don't agree with this article AT ALL.

[WTMCassandra]

I scanned this article and my take is: Over My Dead Body!

 

Not that my boy would be interested in that stuff anyway. He's not the type. How sad that boys are being stereotyped like that.

 

I agree with Heidi@MtHope that if a boy wants more adventure, there are many great quality titles out there.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, LOL, I can see what the appeal would be for boys. Have you looked at any elementary or middle school level reading books that schools use? Or how about a summer reading list? OY! Everyone's so busy empowering girls that boys get totally left out. *I* don't even want to read much of that drivel! My boys have never minded reading a Little House book or something like Caddie Woodlawn - but those are just a small part of the stuff we're reading for history, etc., which is packed (up to modern times) with mostly men's stories. In the earlier stages of history, I have to search for stories of strong women to even out our studies (SWB is great at recs for that, by the way, in SOTW).

 

All in all, if using a little shock value helps to jump start boys' interest in reading, then I guess there's nothing wrong with it. But if they'd just pick a better mix of real literature, and stop feeding kids watered down social studies, instead of actual history, I'm not sure that would be necessary....

[Kris]

Well, LOL, I can see what the appeal would be for boys. Have you looked at any elementary or middle school level reading books that schools use? Or how about a summer reading list? OY! Everyone's so busy empowering girls that boys get totally left out. *I* don't even want to read much of that drivel!

 

We did Calvert our first year and, though I didn't say anything, I did think the reading books they sent that year were "girl books" and didn't think my son would like them much -- he didn't. :D

[Michelle T]

I think you can agree with the critique that teachers usually pick books that appeal to more stereotypically female interests than male ones without thinking that the solution to that problem is more books about farting.

 

 

My DS has no problem enjoying good literature. And he also enjoys reading about farts and gross stuff. There is no reason to limit boys to bathroom humor, although I don't mind small doses.

Michelle T

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I was thinking the same thing about the general reading material covered in schools. I think it is like trying to get a kid to love veggies by feeding him mushy canned green beans. Of course, he will go for the junk food!! But if you have him grow a veggie garden and make delicious, savory meals with fresh veggies your success rate will be much higher. :)

[Laurie4b]

I have 4 boys. They all like to read, including the two with dyslexia. The oldest with remediated dyslexia is a voracious reader. We're working on the one who is younger with more issues.

 

I have always paid attention to how much boy level interest is in the books I assign. I did not include "girl-themed" books until high school, when oldest ds became interested in how that part of humanity thought, felt, etc. The ones he's reading are classics or "really good" books. The stuff I see assigned in public schools (I tutor public school kids) is insipid. No wonder they have to resort to "gross" to overcome boys' natural aversion to the other stuff!

 

There are plenty of good books and great books that appeal to boys without resorting to many of the kinds of books mentioned in the article. Some favorites here have been: Narnia books, The Other Side of the Mountain series, Lord of the Rings trilogy, Rosemary Sutcliff's historic fiction, The Indian in the Cupboard series, Johnny Tremain, the Little Britches series, Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, several animal books (Sounder, Lad a Dog, etc.) , Lloyd Alexander fantasies, HP series, Jungle Book, Redwall series, etc. I looked for male heroes in the books. For humorous fare, they have liked Calvin and Hobbes (okay, it's a comic, but it's going to be a classic comic!) and The BFG (that does contain some farting humor!) As they got older, they also got into mystery series like Agatha Christie and Tony Hillerman. The oldest enjoyed a lot of American lit before the 20th century, including Last of the Mohicans, but NOT Scarlet Letter,LOL! He disliked 20th cent. American Lit because it was generally depressing.

 

I'm sure my youngest two would like potty humor and really gross stuff, but I'm not keen on promoting that.

[Nestof3]

I didn't read the article because I cannot stand that word (f_rt). I have ALL boys and we do not allow that kind of foolish talk in our house or in our reading. I have never had a problem finding books of interest. I would never resort to handing over trash to read just to get my kids to read.

[Jenny in Florida]

We have just recently turned a corner in terms of allowing our 10-year-old son to read books with which I'm not familiar. Frankly, he just reads so much now that I can no longer keep up, let alone ahead of him. However, he still runs past me anything he wants to check out of the library or purchase. I always at least read the jacket copy and sample a couple of pages before I okay each selection.

 

He does tend to gravitate toward books that have more violence than I'd really like, but outright junk . . . no. We never allowed it when he was younger, and now he has no interest in it, never having developed a taste for the stuff.

 

I guess I'm also always puzzled by the idea that reading is something you have to trick kids into doing. In our house, we just assume that reading is something fun and interesting.

 

I think taste in reading is a lot like taste in food: If you begin with the presumption that kids won't eat anything but McDonalds burgers and chicken fingers and french fries and feed them those things when they're young, then that's what they're going to learn to like. And it shouldn't be a big surprise when they're 10 years old and you can't get them to eat whole grains and vegetables that aren't deep fried.

 

It seems to me that feeding a child's brain junk isn't any more likely to entice them into reading the good stuff.

[Laura Corin]

My boys read a mix: Calvin got a bunch of Horrible Histories from the library, but he also chose The Three Musketeers (unabridged). I do insist that no more than half the books he reads are fantasy, but beyond that I don't worry. Both boys are avid readers.

 

I think that limiting electronics has had a bigger influence on their reading habits than pushing/banning particular kinds of books.

 

Laura

[Mrs Mungo]

My boys read a mix: Calvin got a bunch of Horrible Histories from the library, but he also chose The Three Musketeers (unabridged). I do insist that no more than half the books he reads are fantasy, but beyond that I don't worry. Both boys are avid readers.

 

I think that limiting electronics has had a bigger influence on their reading habits than pushing/banning particular kinds of books.

 

Laura

 

Oh, I think the Horrible History books are actually quite good for factoid-type of books. They are nothing like the books described in the article. Granted, they aren't Great Literature but I don't think everything they read *has* to be. I read twaddle too, after all. But something gross or disgusting with the claim that it's helping boys read is just ridiculous.

[Christine]

saw this article today and wondered what your opinions are (my two dc are both girls).

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121814900158422243.html?mod=hps_us_pageone

 

Hmmm,

 

I noticed that when my boys were younger (two still fit this stage) they did not enjoy reading themselves, but they certainly enjoyed being read to, and I can't say that there were "boy books" and "girl books" that they liked or disliked. Little House on the Prairie (the whole series) was a HUGE hit, as long as I read it aloud.

 

I do know there was a "middle" stage of transition from me reading aloud to them reading on their own where I constantly heard complaints. And it did help to ease the complaining by giving them "reading candy" (comics or "sassy" books like Captain Underpants, Junie B. Jones, Ramona the Brave, etc.)

 

Now, however, there is a definate love for reading -- unless it's assigned. Then, I catch the guff again. And, believe it or not I hear, "I hate reading." Which is funny, because if it's not an assigned book I have to tell them to stop reading and get outside.

 

I also hear, "I hate math / science / history. . ."

 

So, what I KNOW, is that my kids HATE being told what to do.

 

Now, is that a male thing??? I don't know, I don't have girls. :tongue_smilie: