10yo tantrums, please help

[jmarchman]

Hi all,

 

My son has resisted lessons since kindergarten.  I have spent years and thousands of dollars in finding good fits for him curriculum-wise. We started out with Enki(Waldorf) ---very child-friendly, right? before moving to a more classical approach. He is not interested in anything, and nothing attracts him.  He is equally unhappy, no matter what I try, so I have settled on using what is easiest for me to implement.  

 

He has a very negative personality--- always complaining and whining; highly critical.

 

My other two children are very easy and fun to teach.  They have sunnier personalities.  They seem to be just as baffled as I am by his behavior sometimes.

 

My oldest also has dysgraphia, which we are addressing.

 

I am miserable when I teach him, though.  He is on the edge of a meltdown every lesson day, during lesson time (he's fine the rest of the day; typical 10 yo boy).  He has a fullblown meltdown every Monday and Thursday like clockwork.

 

We've written a behavior contract that we've both signed (I won't threaten school, he won't tantrum).  We are in the middle of Dianne Crafts supplement program (with no change yet).

 

We have gone to a HIGHLY structured day because he doesn't do well with change.  I had hoped that he will feel more comfortable if every lesson day was exactly the same with exactly the same about of work, but it hasn't helped.  I have tried letting up with very little work-load, and he tantrums about even that amount.  I would unschool him, except he isn't---LITERALLY ISN"T--- interested in ANYTHING!  It's hard to believe, but it's true.  My younger two are interested in everything and are game for anything.  My oldest would lay on the couch looking out the window all day.  He *might* read a book if he was already into a series, but it can be hard to encourage him to pick up something new.

 

I feel like I am a pretty positive person, so I don't think he is reflecting my personality.  He is really difficult to live with now, let alone teach.  I can't point to any year in the last 6 of active homeschooling that I can say "there, that year was good"

 

I don't know what else to do.  He doesn't want to go to school.  He's very introverted, and I think he will be happiest at home regardless, but he doesn't act that way, yet he doesn't even want to try school.  And with his dysgraphia-related (and resistance-related) delays, I'm scared to even think what grade they would put him in.  He's 2nd grade in some areas, 4th in others, but he would be going into 5th this year.  But he's very clever.  It just doesn't show in his lessons.

 

I have massive headaches and stress-induced digestive problems every day from dealing with the child.  (I've ruled out other things through docs and acupuncture)  It's not fair to my other two, either.  Lessons can take from 9am-5:30pm these days!!!!!!  It would also be that way if he had only one thing to do.  Amount almost doesn't matter.  He has about 2-3 hours of skillwork he needs to do every morning, and then we do history and science all together in the afternoon.  Which seems to be reasonable to me for an almost 5th grader!

 

Today, he tantrumed about not having the right kind of snacks available!  It wasn't even about lessons.  

 

Is it me?  Is it him?  Is there something I haven't tried?  Will he mellow out?  If so, soon? When?  Am I on the right track, and I just need to stick with it?

 

I would think there was something we would need to seek medical advice on if he completely lost it at other times of the day.  It is like he has a hair-trigger for his temper regarding lessons, probably from pushing too hard when I thought he was being lazy rather than understanding he was dealing with dyslexia/dysgraphia.  I don't know how to undo that, though!  HELP!!!!

 

I feel really lost, really scared that I've screwed him up and I can't find a way back to a comfortable place for both of us.

 

Jennifer

[bluedarling]

My 16yo was like that!  We tried to get a diagnosis...and they'd say ADHD, but I knew that wasn't it.  We just got a diagnosis of Aspergers (or ASD Type 1).  I suggest asking your doctor or pediatrician for a referral to someone able to diagnose Autistic Spectrum Disorders.  My son reached his worse around that age (and I tried putting him in school to 'be fair to the other kids' and me, too.  It didn't work out.)  Once puberty happened (around 12-13) things became much easier.  My son also had vision therapy around that timeframe (which may account for some of his improvement, especially in the school department.)  I would highly recommend a visit to a developmental optometrist, just to make sure the school issues aren't because he struggling to get his eyes to work together.  It is probably only a piece of the puzzle, but could account for some of the difficulty surrounding school.  Even if he isn't dealing with a spectrum disorder, he may have related sensory issues that are leading to the tantrums...but getting someone familiar with autism and sensory stuff to sort it all out is probably the way to go.  Something is causing the hairtrigger and meltdowns, and it isn't you.

 

Mostly I just wanted to reach out, and say BTDT!  You didn't screw him up, and things will hopefully get much better soon with the right kind of help, and with puberty shortly around the corner.

[PrincessAriel]

 I am sorry things are so hard for you and your son.  I have a resistant child as well and I know how difficult that can be.

How do you react when he is having his tantrums?  Something I am just  learning about and trying to practice  is called staying  "neutral" with my kids.   I read about it in a book about adoptive parenting but it could apply to birth kids just as well.  It just means not reacting to the bad behavior, keeping your face, eyes, body language neutral. Sometimes how we react to it just increases the intensity of their behavior. (I tend to be one who over reacts, talks too much, asks too many questions. If I looked in the mirror in the heat of the moment I just might see the face my child sees!)  It doesn't mean you excuse the bad behavior but instead of getting into a lot of talking with them, possibly using too many words, just keep it short. Don't ask why he has done such and such.  Let him know his behavior is not alright with you.

Also, a play  therapist once told me something  in reference  to a behavior one of my kids kept repeating  that I didn't like.  She told me he kept doing it because it worked. I felt kind of embarrassed but she was right.  I know I may be totally off in understanding exactly what is going on in your life so if this isn't helpful just disregard it.

Good luck with your son in  trying to find an answer.  Perhaps a parent coach or child psychologist may have some better  answers for you.

 

Edit to add:My resistant child is on the autism spectrum.

[Heathermomster]

Is he resistant ALL the time or only during lessons? Also, who diagnosed the dyslexia and dysgraphia?

[jmarchman]

Is he resistant ALL the time or only during lessons? Also, who diagnosed the dyslexia and dysgraphia?

 

He is resistant only during lessons.  All the rest of the day (and the three days of the week we don't do lessons) he's fine; engaging, sweet, dependable, affectionate...

 

My sister and my brother-in-law were both tested and diagnosed with dyslexia.  My dad has undiagnosed learning disabilities that still affect him to this day.  With my kids, dyslexia was on my radar at least.  My oldest has had the most trouble learning to read, but he reads very well now.  I could have gotten a label for him, but it wasn't necessary.

 

What wasn't on my radar was dysgraphia--- hadn't even heard of it.  In Austin, there is a neurologist who specialized in dysgraphia.  By chance, I heard about a talk he was giving at the Scottish Rite.  I took samples of my son's writing, and then later took his seminar.  Dr. Karnik (the neurologist) has developed a test that parents and teachers can administer themselves.  He has does so because he know it takes 6mo+ to get an appointment with him, and he hoped this will be able to help more families sooner.  My son tested "moderate" (mild and extreme being the end designations), with particular struggles in getting things to make an automatic memory in the cerebellum.

 

My son's handwriting is all over the place in size, slope, lower-case vs. upper case choice, rarely on the line (lines what line?).  He still confuses many letters: calls them by the wrong name, gives them the wrong sound(s).  He seems to *finally* have b & d down, but y, g and j still throw him for a loop.  Also, he cannot put his thoughts on paper.  Cannot.  All of these issues became clearer and clearer to me as my 8yo son began passing him in ability last year.  

[jmarchman]

 I am sorry things are so hard for you and your son.  I have a resistant child as well and I know how difficult that can be.

How do you react when he is having his tantrums?  Something I am just  learning about and trying to practice  is called staying  "neutral" with my kids. 

 

Yes, I think this is key.  Thank you for the reminder.  It is so hard these days.  I think I am hair trigger too, and I talk too much!  I didn't use to.  This child in particular is an "old soul".  He was born 30year old, I swear, so it is super easy to talk WAY too much with him.

 

I'm been thinking the word "patience" but I think I need to think "neutral".  Stay the course, but stay neutral.

[happyWImom]

What else is he interested in?  Schoolwork aside, does he ever spend long periods of time engaged in something?  Just trying to figure out what might "hook" him.

 

I do feel for you, though. :grouphug:   My dd has general anxiety, as well as OCD, and before we really knew that, I had lots of problems with her doing school, also.  Tried many different curricula, yada, yada.  

 

She is much better all around, and while she isn't thrilled with some subjects, I was able to find things/areas that she liked, so that makes the other areas bearable.  Also, she does need structure, a list of each thing she's supposed to do that day (whether it's independent or with me), so that she can check each item off.  It helps her, so she can then go "Only X more til I'm done".

 

I hope you can find a solution.

[Lecka]

I think he will go to his age grade or one below. If he is behind he would get RTI services to help him catch up, here. I just say that to say -- I don't think academic level is a reason not to have him attend school.

 

My son's tantrums are of two types. Attention or escape. For attention -- be calm and don't even look. For escape -- you are supposed to not let him out of the task.

 

I often cannot recognize escape behavior. (My son has a therapist who will say what she thinks the function of his behavior is.).

 

It sounds like you need some help. I think school might be a good resource, or might not be. Maybe he could be evaluated.

 

I want to point out that you say he is a normal kid for his age outside of lessons. But then you say he stares out the window and does not have interests. I don't think that is behavior to leave alone, if it is all the time. It sounds like something is wrong even when he is not having a tantrum.

 

But you sound like you have gone above and beyond!!!! I think maybe it is time to find help.

[City Mouse]

If his issues are causing you to be physically ill, then maybe sending him to school would not be such a bad thing. It would allow you to separate school issues from parent/child issues. You don't want how you feel about his school behaviors to impact the rest of your relationship.

His behavior does sound like he has some other issues besides just dyslexia/dysgraphia that need to be identified and addressed. You could choose to do that privately or through the school.

[Jennifer-72]

I agree with Lecka comments regarding his lack of interests. I also find it concerning that you mention he has trouble with changes. It maybe that you are seeing the most troubles with him at school time since that is most likely when the demands on him are the greatest.

 

It sounds like you have been doing lots to help him. Maybe it is time to look for some professional assistance to see if they can help give him some more productive coping skills and overall improved emotional regulation skills.

[Geo]

He sounds so miserable...I've been there with mine too. I would think about getting an evaluation. Doesn't sound like anything will improve until you know what you're dealing with. We were in a similar situation until we were able understand what was causing all the behaviors.

 

{{HUGS))

 

Geo

[geodob]

The fact that he 'literally isn't interested in anything'?

Makes me wonder whether he has a major Attention difficulty, ADD ?

Where this doesn't just effect attention when doing schoolwork. But effects the ability to focus attention on any activity.  Which could get in the way of him developing any interest, if he can't stay focused?

Though the dysgraphia and related difficulties would have a compounding effect.

 

With the clockwork Monday and Thursday meltdowns?  Perhaps some sort of physical activity could be planned for those days, so that he can let off steam. Before he melts down?

[kwg]

He sounds so miserable...I've been there with mine too. I would think about getting an evaluation. Doesn't sound like anything will improve until you know what you're dealing with. We were in a similar situation until we were able understand what was causing all the behaviors.

 

{{HUGS))

 

Geo

 

 

What kind of evaluation? Where would one go?

 

I had to double check that it wasn't my friend posting, lol.(she doesn't have 2 other children)  She may be interested in the info.

[Heathermomster]

Maybe it's time to set up an evaluation with the NP. The evaluation will help to identify the particular learning issues that your son struggles with and provide guidance for teaching. Your child may have ADD or be gifted and bored out of his mind. The NP will tell you.  

 

Issues with working memory and processing speed need to be taken into account when you teach, and he requires accommodations to be successful. These kids can learn and enjoy school.  Early elementary is just tough, for the kids and the moms. Fifth grade can become the time when students start to blossom.

 

My DS has dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyscalculia/gifted. Here's how 5th grade looked with DS. He was reading/music tutored 3 hours per week. He schooled with me no more that 2.5-3 hours per day, 5 days per week. We rotated science and history every couple of weeks, Learning to type was a priority, so he practiced 20 minutes per day. He listened to audio books for literature and completed character webs and poster projects based upon books he read. Grammar was a pain.  Science was hands-on. He kept a history journal. We covered basic paragraph writing. Vocabulary was completed on the computer. Math took about 25 min per lesson, and he sometimes completed math in the morning and evening. Our day in no way resembled the classical pedagogy. DS reads and comprehends well but prefers audio books.  

 

To balance homeschool and manage the emotions, DH took him camping and basically did guy stuff. He competed in wrestling. We agreed to finish school by 2pm each day, but that involved him actually completing the work,  We used outside activities to motivate him. I learned to identify when he was melting and hugged him a lot. I periodically sent him off to do random things, like rotate laundry, fix a drink, or check mail. He became good at letting me know when things were too much. Whenever he gets upset, I try to acknowledge and agree that school is hard. I also try to farm out the really difficult subjects to teach, like writing and reading remediation. 

[Pen]

Does he have any explanation for the problems or any ideas about what to do?

 

Could you go to limited work for him and have him help you with the younger children?

 

He truly is interested in nothing?  Could he be depressed?  But you said he is fine when it is not school time, so what does he do then?  Can he listen to audiobooks while staring out window?  Can he draw or record what he is thinking about and make it into art or a story?  Would documentary movies be a way he can learn content subjects?

 

Any clues to the clockwork tantrums on Mon and Thurs.?

 

To me there are red flags for dyslexia, even though he is reading well.  If that is a problem, then what seems reasonable to you may not be so for him.  So even though he seems to be reading well, he may need accommodations that suit dyslexia, not just dysgraphia.

 

Flower Essences?  Fish oil or something along those lines?  Other vitamins and minerals?  Possible allergies or food or other intolerances?

 

What areas are at 2nd grade level and what at 4th?  

[Geo]

What kind of evaluation? Where would one go?

 

I had to double check that it wasn't my friend posting, lol.(she doesn't have 2 other children)  She may be interested in the info.

In a perfect world? A neuropsychologist. In all honesty, choices are often dictated by insurance, or even no insurance. The easiest place to start is your child's pediatrician. Try to gather all your concerns and write them down and share them with the Dr. Ask for an evaluation. Fortunately, mine was awesome and had a special interest in helping kids with neuro-based issues . He referred ds for an eval at a children's center a couple of hours away. He saw a Dev Ped there. We followed up with a Ed Psych 18 mos later for learning disabilities. It's not always a one-shot deal. A NP (neuropsychologist) should be your best bet to catch all the issues. We are very rural, AND in the Smoky Mountains. So it must be getting easier to locate help.

[LLMom]

He sounds like my now 20 yr old ds. He tantrumed a lot. Finally had him evaluated at age 10 by a neuro.psy. He has adhd, ODD, SID, visual processing problem and bipolar. They were hesitant to label him bipolar as a child but by 17,  they were sure. Looking back, i wished i would have had him evaluated sooner and sent him to school. I am STILL living this nightmare with this chid. Only difference now is he is done with school but he still has rage episodes. I would get your child evaluated asap. Our insurance wouldnt cover testing but the place gave us a good discount. It was worth it.

[jmarchman]

Thanks for everyone's input.  After talking with my husband, I'm giving our situation until Oct. 1 to see if any of our previous changes help (Dianne Craft's supplements recommendations (we're only 5 weeks in), super structured schedule, neutral reactions from me, etc.).  But it sounds like I've pretty much tried everything that I can do on my own. :( 

 

If things haven't changed, then I will seek an evaluation, and start looking at school options. :( :( :(

[IsabelC]

Hi, I don't have any great suggestions to add, but I would like to extend some understanding and sympathy. My 10yo son (aspergers) is similar in many ways. We struggled with home schooling him for five years before starting him in school this year. Hopefully you may have access to a school that is a really good fit for your child, however in my experience it has taken a lot of ongoing effort to support our kid's transition to school. So if you do go down that path, be prepared to spend some time dealing with whatever issues come up at school. 

[Lecka]

For how to respond, my son does ABA for behavior.  It has helped a lot.

 

If you can read anything about ABA I think it might help. 

 

First, we take an ABC data sheet.  We have a paper with the date and then have a column for time, Antecedent (what happened right before the behavior), Behavior, and Consequence (what happens afterward).  For some things, I cannot see a pattern.  But -- his therapist can look at the sheet and see a pattern! 

 

Then there is functional behavior analysis.  That means -- the therapist (and I have been taught to some extent) looks at the behavior and tries to say "why" they happened.  For my son, the two reasons are 1) attention 2) escape.  But -- the hard part is that the same behavior can be used for either attention or escape! 

 

For example -- running away.  Sometimes my son runs and we are pretty sure it is b/c he knows someone will chase him if it is not safe -- so if he runs he gets attention.  But, he will also try to run away if he does not want to do something he is supposed to do (escape).  So if we think the "function of behavior" is attention, we would try to catch him and bring him back but without paying any attention to him while doing it.  Also he would like to be carried, and I will NOT carry him then, b/c it WILL encourage him to do it again (this the therapist had to point out to me, but I totally agree).  So I do the thing of holding him under his arms and making him stand, even if it takes 15 minutes. 

 

But if he is running to "escape," then I am NOT supposed to do that.  Then I should take him back to the task and continue on, though maybe in an easier way, or for him, giving him the answer and a way to do it non-verbally, so he can do what he should without it being too hard.  And here too, we would put this on the behavior sheet, and the therapist might say "well here you are expecting too much of him."  Asking to do too much that is too hard for him WILL lead to escape behavior for him, so then the key is to not expect more than he can do.  But still push him to do what he is able to do. 

 

For being neutral if it is an attention tantrum, I can't even look at my son.  If I am looking at him, it is harder for him to calm down.  At the beginning, he had worse tantrums trying to get a response from me. I was told this is normal, because kids will not give up on something that has worked for them, they will do it more, to see if doing it more will work.  We used to time my son's tantrums, because there is no way to tell how long they are, or if they are getting better, or if they are better than they were 2 weeks ago, without timing.  If it doesn't help -- then that is good to know, too. 

 

My son has limited language skills, and he has just started using a token board.  So he does not have as many options yet, as a child who has got a lot of language skills and can understand a reward system that is not immediate rewards.  There are a lot more options than this for a child who has good language skills, that you might do with a therapist.

 

But the attention/escape thing has been SO helpful to me. We have gone from tantrums lasting 90 minutes on a regular basis, to tantrums lasting less than 10 minutes.  There is more going on.  I am better at re-directing. I am better at making him responsible to ask for what he wants in some way.  He has learned to ask for things from his therapy.  But, this is a lot of it. 

 

B/c I have had a therapist in my home watch me when he has a tantrum, she will say "well when you look at him, that is attention, and he is trying to get your attention."  Etc. I could not realize those things on my own.  But it did not take long for me to change some little things like that.