Lack of historical perspective

[Laura Corin]

I was finding the Patrick Stewart Who Do You Think You Are episode for Calvin and my gaze wandered down to the comments.  And the suggestion that PS's father (who suffered from PTSD) should have sought therapy or anger management help.  I just can't wrap my head around someone thinking that this country was sitting around giving itself therapy, when almost all the reasonably fit adult males had been to war, three million city kids had been ripped from their families and sent away for their own safety, many of the older men and women had seen unspeakable death and maiming in the Blitz, and even after the war there was barely enough to eat.  

 

How can people not know?  Really, is it too much to ask for people to exercise a little imagination?

 

Not really looking for answers.  Just angry that my parents' generation's experiences are so minimised.

 

L

 

 

[Kathryn]

I watched it also and also saw that in the comments this morning. I shook my head at the ignorance. Some people have absolutely no clue: either those in the past should have been exactly like us and known the things we know and believed the things we believe, or they were all Neanderthals.

[Laura Corin]

I watched it also and also saw that in the comments this morning. I shook my head at the ignorance. Some people have absolutely no clue: either those in the past should have been exactly like us and known the things we know and believed the things we believe, or they were all Neanderthals.

 

It's just ....  I don't know what it is.  My father wept on his death bed about what he was forced to do as an evacuee in Canada.  My mother's hoarding is directly related (I think) to being bombed out of her school, and then going through the bombing of Bristol when she worked in an aeroplane factory there.  She just needs to hold onto things.

 

L

[Kathryn]

It's just .... I don't know what it is. My father wept on his death bed about what he was forced to do as an evacuee in Canada. My mother's hoarding is directly related (I think) to being bombed out of her school, and then going through the bombing of Bristol when she worked in an aeroplane factory there. She just needs to hold onto things.

 

L

I understand. My grandmother was a flying nurse stationed in England. My grandfather got out of Europe before the war began but his family walked from present-day Ukraine to Bavaria, and it was not a pleasant stroll! The horrors that these people went through are absolutely sickening to think about.

[HS Mom in NC]

It happens all the time.  I blame public schools (where the vast majority of people are educated) for abandoning History for Social Studies and the Trivium for Trivia. Very few people read old books anymore in spite of all the good reasons C.S. Lewis gave us for doing so.

I once read a review of East of the Sun, West of the Moon on amazon.com where someone complained as minority about the lack of racially diverse characters in the stories.  A thousand years ago there just weren't minorities in NW Europe and transportation was extremely limited.  Boats, feet and hooves was all you had to work with then.  Have you ever seen a fjord!?!

[regentrude]

I was finding the Patrick Stewart Who Do You Think You Are episode for Calvin and my gaze wandered down to the comments.  And the suggestion that PS's father (who suffered from PTSD) should have sought therapy or anger management help.  I just can't wrap my head around someone thinking that this country was sitting around giving itself therapy, when almost all the reasonably fit adult males had been to war, three million city kids had been ripped from their families and sent away for their own safety, many of the older men and women had seen unspeakable death and maiming in the Blitz, and even after the war there was barely enough to eat.  

 

How can people not know?  Really, is it too much to ask for people to exercise a little imagination?

 

Not really looking for answers.  Just angry that my parents' generation's experiences are so minimised.

 

I found that people in a country that participated in the war but did not have the war play out on its own soil have a very different view from people whose families had to deal with the immediate effects, were civilian victims of bombig and famine.

 

Even among quite educated Americans I have encountered attitudes about the war that make me cringe. For example, jokes. I'd like to say: No, I don't find jokes about how you won the war funny: because my grandfather got killed, my mom went begging for food as a 4 year old, her family lost everything they owned to the bombings and had to treck through Germany as refugees, and my beautiful hometown was bombed to complete rubble at a point when you had already won the war, in February of 45, when it was a city filled with refugees and without any military significance ..I still saw ruins when I was growing up... there is absolutely nothing humorous.

I ended up telling a friend and colleague so in no uncertain terms. To his credit, he shut up thereafter. But people in this country have a very very different perspective and can afford the luxury to see things more abstractly.

 

Sorry for going off on a tangent.. but I think it highlights the same lack of perspective,

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think people who don't have a good grasp of history are time-centric as well as ethnocentric.  

[HRAAB]

I found that people in a country that participated in the war but did not have the war play out on its own soil have a very different view from people whose families had to deal with the immediate effects, were civilian victims of bombig and famine.

 

Even among quite educated Americans I have encountered attitudes about the war that make me cringe. For example, jokes. I'd like to say: No, I don't find jokes about how you won the war funny: because my grandfather got killed, my mom went begging for food as a 4 year old, her family lost everything they owned to the bombings and had to treck through Germany as refugees, and my beautiful hometown was bombed to complete rubble at a point when you had already won the war, in February of 45, when it was a city filled with refugees and without any military significance ..I still saw ruins when I was growing up... there is absolutely nothing humorous. I am from Dresden, for Heaven's sake, that alone should be enough to tell you that I can not find war jokes funny.

I ended up telling a friend and colleague so in no uncertain terms. To his credit, he shut up thereafter. But people in this country have a very very different perspective and can afford the luxury to see things more abstractly.

 

Sorry for going off on a tangent.. but I think it highlights the same lack of perspective,

 

As I have reminded my children.  When their grandfather came home from the war, he came home to a country with a booming economy.  No bombed out buildings, destroyed cities.  He found a job immediately and started a family.  Perspective is so important.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Even among quite educated Americans I have encountered attitudes about the war that make me cringe. 

 

The only WWII jokes I've heard (that I can think of) are jokes about how quickly the French surrendered. Other jokes I hear about are about Europe (in general) being reluctant to go to war. The people saying this stuff usually think the US is great because of all countries we go around bombing. It doesn't seem to occur to them that the devastation Europe endured may be a big reason why they are more reluctant to start wars than we are.

[Laura Corin]

I found that people in a country that participated in the war but did not have the war play out on its own soil have a very different view from people whose families had to deal with the immediate effects, were civilian victims of bombig and famine.

 

 

I didn't want to like your post, but I wanted to thank you for contributing.  I think that what you said above is the key.

 

It came up at 9/11.  I, of course, understood the shock and horror at the events - we had friends who had to flee the vicinity of the towers.  But it was hard to be told that it was uniquely horrible, that it was unheard of for a Western country to have its government, ruling politicians and commercial heart attacked by indiscriminate terrorists who killed innocent people.  And that the whole world should now unite to avenge the deaths, when a blind eye had previously been turned to overseas financing of terrorists killing 1,800 civilians in Britain.

 

ETA: I believe in Irish self determination and always have.  

 

L

[JumpyTheFrog]

As I have reminded my children.  When their grandfather came home from the war, he came home to a country with a booming economy.  No bombed out buildings, destroyed cities.  He found a job immediately and started a family.  Perspective is so important.

 

Over on The Housing Bubble blog, people in the comments have often discussed this. They talk about how the prosperity of the 1950s is seen as "normal" by Americans, instead of an aberration caused by most of Europe's factories being destroyed. Our factories, however, were intact and ready to build goods to export to all the war torn countries. Now that they've had plenty of time to rebuild, we don't have that big advantage anymore.

[TXMomof4]

Even now people don't get the horrors our soldiers have gone through. It makes me physically ill watching people minimize PTSD and the real impact it has on people's lives. I can't imagine the years my brother spent in Iraq and the things he witnessed and I have heard the stories. People who have zero exposure to the real suffering our troops go through need to shut up.

[regentrude]

 Likewise, I also don't understand the lack of empathy for innocents killed abroad by our own soldiers, sometimes maliciously. We don't need to deny it, it needs to be spoken of in order to stop it, imo. I listened to the Winter Soldier conference several years ago, and wanted to throw up while hearing them confess to calling Iraqi children standing in the road "speedbumps", and running over them.

 

My worst encounter of this kind I ever had was a father whom I met at the park. He was watching his seven home schooled children play. Ex-military, very Christian (asked where I go to church and berated me for not going). He told me that the commandement Though Shalt Not Kill does not apply to muslims since they are the infidel who threaten our way of life.

 

I was completely speechless. That happened shortly after I had moved to this country and scared the heck out of me.

 

[PrincessMommy]

I was finding the

Who Do You Think You Are episode for Calvin and my gaze wandered down to the comments.  And the suggestion that PS's father (who suffered from PTSD) should have sought therapy or anger management help.  I just can't wrap my head around someone thinking that this country was sitting around giving itself therapy, when almost all the reasonably fit adult males had been to war, three million city kids had been ripped from their families and sent away for their own safety, many of the older men and women had seen unspeakable death and maiming in the Blitz, and even after the war there was barely enough to eat.  

 

How can people not know?  Really, is it too much to ask for people to exercise a little imagination?

 

Not really looking for answers.  Just angry that my parents' generation's experiences are so minimised.

 

L

 

I know!  I've seen it countless times in the comments of articles and/or youtube.  People really do seem clueless.  As though people talked about that stuff 30-40-50years ago.  It's really disheartening how judgmental people can be.

[PrincessMommy]

My worst encounter of this kind I ever had was a father whom I met at the park. He was watching his seven home schooled children play. Ex-military, very Christian (asked where I go to church and berated me for not going). He told me that the commandement Though Shalt Not Kill does not apply to muslims since they are the infidel who threaten our way of life.

 

I was completely speechless. That happened shortly after I had moved to this country and scared the heck out of me.

 

 

I'm speechless too.  :scared:

[JumpyTheFrog]

 Likewise, I also don't understand the lack of empathy for innocents killed abroad by our own soldiers, sometimes maliciously. 

 

Mr. Hoppy showed me a video of some soldiers flying around in a helicopter (?) in Iraq, having fun shooting at Iraqis like it was a video game. It was sickening. Another US solider who publicly released the video (to show the way some soldiers are killing civilians for fun) was just sentenced to decades of prison. The military attempted to try him for treason!

 

He told me that the commandement Though Shalt Not Kill does not apply to muslims since they are the infidel who threaten our way of life.

 

Sadly, many conservative Christians seem to import their political views into their religion. Lawrence Vance has a book called "Christianity and War". One chapter is called "The Unholy Desire of Christians to Legitimize Killing in War." It's been about five years since I've read it and the only part I really remember is the chapter where he lists all the countries where we have military bases, plus all the countries where we have soldiers stationed not at official bases (and not counting embassies). I don't remember him being a pacifist, but in my own experience, if you are a conservative Christian who is extremely skeptical of the necessity of bombing other countries, people will think you are a total pacifist.

 

While many Christians give lots of thought to facing God someday about various sins (which ones depends on the denomination), there is a disconnect when it comes to war. DH and I aren't total pacifists, but we would strongly, strongly be against our kids joining the military. If they became soldiers, they might be ordered to kill people in a questionable, or outright immoral war. We take the commandment about not killing people seriously. We believe in self-defense, but don't think chasing after enemies (that can't get here) in their own land can be considered legitimate self-defense before God.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Another reason DH and I are skeptical of most wars is because of the way the soldiers and their families are so negatively affected. Between the deployments, the PTSD, and the injuries, families are hurt by war. Plus all the families hurt on the other side.

 

At our gym is a man we assume must've been hurt in one of the wars. He appears to be in his twenties and is missing both legs and the lower part of one arm. He works out from his power wheelchair using an arm bicycle. One day I saw him bring his infant in his or her carseat. He had to leave the baby outside the gym while he went inside to the child care center to get help. (I was too far away to get his attention to offer to hold the door.) I can't imagine being in a situation where I have so few limbs that I have to leave my baby alone next to a parking lot because I can't open the door and hold the car seat at the same time.

[LostSurprise]

People are self-centric...always have been and always will be. Because of this I am always thankful when I...or someone else...experiences the gifts of empathy and imagination.

 

When we take a moment to imagine what hasn't directly been our experience it is a rare and mysterious thing. 

 

Of course, I like to think I experience this more than I do. The reality is that I'm closed tight in the little circle of my life. Hopefully I'm thinking, listening, and imaging as hard as I can to see beyond it. Its harder than we think. 

[Julie in Austin]

I don't know if my experience was typical, but even in an AP American History class,  World War II meant Pearl Harbor, the Holocaust, US internment camps, and nuclear weapons, and that's it.  I had no idea whatsoever about Britain's experience in WWII until I was an adult and started reading on my own.  

[justasque]

 

How can people not know?  Really, is it too much to ask for people to exercise a little imagination?

 

Not really looking for answers.  Just angry that my parents' generation's experiences are so minimised.

 

L

 

 

I found that people in a country that participated in the war but did not have the war play out on its own soil have a very different view from people whose families had to deal with the immediate effects, were civilian victims of bombing and famine.

 

My relatives lived through the Blitz.  Some were evacuees; some stayed with their parents.  

Most non-recent-immigrant American families didn't experience anything like that.  

For them, war is something that you go and do somewhere else.

Can you imagine, as a mother, having to send your children away to live with complete strangers, who were required to take them in whether they wanted to or not, in the hope they'd be safer there than with you?  Can you imagine deciding not to, and keeping them where they were likely to die from bombing, like other children in your neighborhood had done?  

 

Most American families' children were safe at home, with their mothers.

 

Laura, most Americans really, really do not know what war is like.  

The history books teach battles, campaigns, treaties.  They teach very little of what it is like for families.

[elegantlion]

Things like Japanese internment camps were mentioned only in passing in my US history classes. Here's a piece by George Takei who was a child when his family was taken away from their home. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-takei/japanese-american-internment-museum_b_3130896.html

 

I believe I was in high school before I realized the Vietnam War had ended AFTER my birth. I believe there were many aspects of war in general simply not discussed in American homes, I don't ever remember it being talked about in my house. 

[TXMomof4]

My worst encounter of this kind I ever had was a father whom I met at the park. He was watching his seven home schooled children play. Ex-military, very Christian (asked where I go to church and berated me for not going). He told me that the commandement Though Shalt Not Kill does not apply to muslims since they are the infidel who threaten our way of life.

 

I was completely speechless. That happened shortly after I had moved to this country and scared the heck out of me.

 

I would bet you a million bucks that is a rationalization so he can live with himself. It is ugly and awful. And I'd bet if he didn't have that rationale he wouldn't be able to live with himself.

 

Eta: There is a reason so many veterans do not talk about their war experiences. My brother has been through some extensive therapy and he still can't talk about most of his time overseas. From my sheltered little world it is hard to imagine. And I'm far less disconnected from his reality than a lot of people.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Here's a piece by George Takei who was a child when his family was taken away from their home. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-takei/japanese-american-internment-museum_b_3130896.html

Thanks for this article.

[HS Mom in NC]

My middle daughter's guitar teacher was born in a Japanese prison camp here in AZ.

[gardenmom5]

It happens all the time.  I blame public schools (where the vast majority of people are educated) for abandoning History for Social Studies and the Trivium for Trivia. Very few people read old books anymore in spite of all the good reasons C.S. Lewis gave us for doing so.

  Have you ever seen a fjord!?!

I fear many American teens (and probably a scary share of twenty-somethings) would think you spelled "ford" wrong.

 

Even now people don't get the horrors our soldiers have gone through. It makes me physically ill watching people minimize PTSD and the real impact it has on people's lives. I can't imagine the years my brother spent in Iraq and the things he witnessed and I have heard the stories. People who have zero exposure to the real suffering our troops go through need to shut up.

 

 

I don't know if my experience was typical, but even in an AP American History class,  World War II meant Pearl Harbor, the Holocaust, US internment camps, and nuclear weapons, and that's it.  I had no idea whatsoever about Britain's experience in WWII until I was an adult and started reading on my own.  

My history classes (in the 70's) wwii was the same.  pearl harbor was the only part of the pacific war covered - except for dropping two nuclear bombs. everything was about Europe.  

 

I was seriously educated on the pacific war when I married dh because my fil survived it. he survived the Bataan death march.  he survived the hell ships - not even Hollywood made movies about that. (he had stories that I wish dh never told me.  some make me want to throw up.)  one time the only reason he survived a ship sinking was his notification of promotion of rank didn't arrive before Bataan fell to the Japanese.  the ship they were in was torpedoed (the Japanese marked their troop ships as pow ships, and the real pow ships would be attacked because they were thought to be troop ships.), and everyone of what his actual rank was and higher rank, were held where the torpedoes hit.  Incidentally, he held no animosity towards the Japanese.  particular Japanese soldiers, yes - especially a particular translator who delighted in mistranslating things so the prisoners would be beaten.  the guy was hung after the war crimes trials.

 

he survived atrocities on a par of what the Nazi's did to the jews -- the only difference  was the American's were soldiers and the women and children and old men were Asian.  as bad as the Americans were treated, the philippinos were treated worse.  my mil said it was seven years before the nightmares stopped.

 

he also was cognizant of his audience and was not very forthcoming even with teenagers.  he did tell a few jokes - mocking MacArthur.  many of the American's who survived the fall of bataan did.  He may have come home to a prosperous America - but his health was ruined by three and a half years of starvation and even though he lived to be repatriated, he died young, leaving his teen children without a father.

 

I'd also never heard of the Armenian holocaust (term first used by the NYT in 1897?.) in history classes, but my mil's father was Armenian and escaped.  I've tried to read "the burning tigris" twice, but it makes me sick.  It is meticulously documented. 

[Arcadia]

 

Not really looking for answers.  Just angry that my parents' generation's experiences are so minimised.

 

My parents were born during WWII. Unfortunately history textbooks are never impartial and history teachers are human and tend to downplay whatever they may not be comfortable about.

I learnt about war atrocities the same time as I learnt about apartheid in school.  Vietnam War ended after I was born and was in the local newspaper as one of the longest running war. The Afghanistan war reminded my generation of the Vietnam War. I learnt about the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 3rd grade social studies as well as the concentration camp gas chambers.  My kids history textbooks are mild.

[Laura Corin]

The only WWII jokes I've heard (that I can think of) are jokes about how quickly the French surrendered. 

 

I was thinking about this overnight.  To make jokes about a country that only a couple of decades earlier had fought a war against the same country that led to the death of over a million French soldiers .... shows a cruel lack of imagination.  The casualty rate amongst French soldiers in WWI was 73%, vs 35% for British/Empire soldiers and 8% for US soldiers.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

Over on The Housing Bubble blog, people in the comments have often discussed this. They talk about how the prosperity of the 1950s is seen as "normal" by Americans, instead of an aberration caused by most of Europe's factories being destroyed. Our factories, however, were intact and ready to build goods to export to all the war torn countries. Now that they've had plenty of time to rebuild, we don't have that big advantage anymore.

 

Yes.  Britain paid off its last WW2-related loan to the US in 2006.

 

L

[Parrothead]

My dad was in Vietnam. He has never talked about it that I've ever heard.

 

Like others when we learned about WWII it was Pearl Harbor, the Nazis, the atomic bombings at the end of the war. Everything I learned in school was very rah-rah way to end the war pro-US. I learned about the children being sent to the country in England from The Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe. I've learned more about the blitz by watching Dr. Who than I learned in school. I had no idea there were american citizens sent to camps just because of their ancestry until I was in my 30s.

[Laura Corin]

 

Can you imagine, as a mother, having to send your children away to live with complete strangers, who were required to take them in whether they wanted to or not, in the hope they'd be safer there than with you?  Can you imagine deciding not to, and keeping them where they were likely to die from bombing, like other children in your neighborhood had done?  

 

My father was in another ship in this convoy.  Once he reached Canada, his books were burned and he was stopped from going to school by the distant relative who was 'looking after' him.  He was ten in 1940 and was in charge of his 8yo brother.

 

L

[Hannah]

Can you imagine, as a mother, having to send your children away to live with complete strangers, who were required to take them in whether they wanted to or not, in the hope they'd be safer there than with you?  Can you imagine deciding not to, and keeping them where they were likely to die from bombing, like other children in your neighborhood had done?  

 

I had relatives in Amsterdam who took in a Jewish child to hide during the war.  He was only four years old and came to them with his details (names of relatives, likes, etc.) pinned to the inside lapel of his coat!  Imagine what it must take to write that note, having the child's escape route all mapped out and pinning it onto his coat when the time came. 

The boy's family died in the holocaust and my great aunt raised him.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My parents saw MacArthur when they first went to Japan during the American occupation after the war.  They saw Japan rebuild after the war.

My MIL hid in the fields and watched the Bataan Death March.

My FIL was hidden from the Japanese after his parents were executed for being teachers and ate rats to survive.

Corrie Ten Boom visited our house before I was born but I grew up hearing stories not only of her life but specifically of her visit to our family.

I met Richard Wurmbrand and heard his horrific tales of torture during Communist Romania.  

I've translated for Chinese grandparents who are unable to talk to their grandkids in English but spoke to me in the Japanese they were forced to learn during the Sino-Japanese War and occupation and had me translate for them into English.

 

None of this came in a classroom.  (Though I did study history and also read a lot of history on my own.)

 

 

[Arcadia]

I've translated for Chinese grandparents who are unable to talk to their grandkids in English but spoke to me in the Japanese they were forced to learn during the Sino-Japanese War and occupation and had me translate for them into English.

 

My grandparents suffered when Singapore was occupied by Japan during WWII and renamed Syonan-To. Many civilians were randomly killed by japanese soldiers. We also learn about the Nanking Massacre.

The japanese exchange students bought and brought back to Japan many history textbooks from Asia and Australia to compare with the textbooks they had. They had heard about the atrocities and wanted to know how other countries view them.

[Skadi]

I wish I could apologize on behalf of America for what we did to Dresden, regentrude. It makes me sick thinking about it. Maybe Americans' attitudes would change if they knew more about Dresden and the Morganthal Plan. :(

 

Speaking of the Nanking Massacre, you should all watch "John Rabe." It's on Netflix right now. One of the best films I've seen in a long time, and certainly one of the most important regarding WWII history. Here's the trailer: http://youtu.be/Wt9-ME6mQqI

[Jean in Newcastle]

Also - I went to school with the children of two American POWs who later became missionaries to Japan.  I knew their stories but knew them primarily just as dads.  

[Hannah]

My mother's hoarding is directly related (I think) to being bombed out of her school, and then going through the bombing of Bristol when she worked in an aeroplane factory there.  She just needs to hold onto things.

 

My grandmother was like this about food.  She always had to have a full pantry and we were never allowed to throw away a scrap.  She and my grandfather always refused to talk about the war.  They told a few stories, but I think they wanted to spare us grandchildren the details.

 

My mother was born during WWII in Rotterdam.  She always flinched when she heard a siren-like noise.  We later realised that as a baby and toddler she had been conditioned by this to expect being pulled from her crib or bundled up to be rushed to the air raid shelters.

[Laura in CA]

My parents saw MacArthur when they first went to Japan during the American occupation after the war.  They saw Japan rebuild after the war.

My MIL hid in the fields and watched the Bataan Death March.

My FIL was hidden from the Japanese after his parents were executed for being teachers and ate rats to survive.

Corrie Ten Boom visited our house before I was born but I grew up hearing stories not only of her life but specifically of her visit to our family.

I met Richard Wurmbrand and heard his horrific tales of torture during Communist Romania.  

I've translated for Chinese grandparents who are unable to talk to their grandkids in English but spoke to me in the Japanese they were forced to learn during the Sino-Japanese War and occupation and had me translate for them into English.

 

None of this came in a classroom.  (Though I did study history and also read a lot of history on my own.)

 

Wow, I was just reading a book by Corrie ten Boom last night ("In My Father's House"). Great lady!

 

Same as other posters. I am flabbergasted at some Americans' complete ignorance of, well, everything about the "other side" of WWII..

 

My father is Korean.

 

He grew up under Japanese occupation (so, did all of his schooling in Japanese and is still fluent, had to take a Japanese name, saw Korean institutions systematically dismantled and humiliated, etc.); he remembers edicts from the Emperor being read at school assemblies (for example, the declaration of war on the U.S.); when the Japanese invaded Malaysia (?) every boy at his school was given a tennis ball (b/c Japan was about to have lots of rubber!);

 

when he was 10 the Japanese were ousted, but the Communists took over, so his family's property was taken from them piece by piece, all of a sudden kids were encouraged to spy on their parents and report disloyal behavior and thoughts, my dad became the leader of his class's version of the "Red Brigade," they had "confessions" in school (the boys quickly learned that if you burst into tears they would let you stop!), the kids drew portraits of Kim Il Sung in art class and my father's was chosen to hang on the wall;

 

when my father was 12 he fled with his mother and 4 younger siblings to South Korea (his father had gone ahead when the border was still porous), paying someone to take them across the border at night (who could have betrayed them), his baby sister cried and they were shot at, but made it; they had to leave everything behind except what they could easily carry and sell later (silk and gold) - to this day my father regrets leaving the family photo album behind -- he tried to sneak it into his bundle but his mother saw it and took it out; they made it to the south as refugees and were sprayed with DDT by U.S. soldiers, I suppose to eliminate lice, etc. (he is bemused by this now); when the silk and gold were gone my father (a very dignified person and a scholar, NOT a salesman!) sold cigarettes on the streets of Seoul;

 

at age 15 the Korean War started; my father was again a refugee, fleeing with a male cousin across the entire country on foot (and at one point in the coal tender of a train) through the war zone ... his mother took in washing from U.S. soldiers stationed near their house (providentially, his parents lived in the one tiny pocket of Korea that was never taken over by the North) to make ends meet, and my father, who spoke a little English, collected the laundry;

 

Much of the country lay in ruins by the end of the Korean War, a large percentage of the civilian population was killed (10-20%?), and many many families were separated permanently by the division between north and south. My father's family was all reunited in the south, but ALL of his friends have a horrific story to tell. One of his good friends was separated from his parents in 1950 during the mass exodus and confusion escaping from the north; his parents put him in charge of his younger sister (he was about 10 years old), but somewhere in the chaos he lost her ...  he is in his 70s now and still has no idea what ever happened to his parents and to his younger sister --  were they killed during the war? are they still alive but never made it out of North Korea? & from age 10 on he had to survive on his own ... (There is basically NO communication between north and south, even telephone calls, to this day -- families that were separated in 1950 are still separated.)

 

 

Anyway, things are better here in CA than when we lived back East (many Asians out here, and now lots and lots of refugees from war zones such as Iraq and Afghanistan - my son has friends from these countries), but most Americans are clueless about such horrors.

 

BUT my father is not bitter ... he also seems to accept that many Americans are simply ignorant. But I don't disagree with folks up-thread who educate obnoxious people about why they are being offensive.

 

 

About hoarding ... a friend of ours when we lived in Europe had a sister who was a missionary in the former Yugoslavia (during the war in the 1990s). When her sister would come to visit her in Switzerland and they'd go shopping, her sister would say things like, "Look! They have toilet paper! Let's get some!" Our friend said to us, "She grew up in Pittsburgh!" -- but obviously you adapt very quickly to extreme situations ...

 

 

ETA: now I regret posting ... I don't really have the time for this! Eek! college apps! ... but I feel compelled to add that my father, like many Koreans of his generation, is very grateful to the U.S. and the other members of the UN forces (including many Turks, as my Turkish friend points out!) who fought in Korea. I also don't want to minimize the U.S. contribution to WWII (although I know that wasn't the point of this thread!). We were at an airport where a restored B-29 bomber was on display (and available for rides), and a woman vet who had worked on airplanes during WWII told us that she still gets a catch in her throat whenever she hears that giant rumble of an engine start up ... She watched many bombers fly off toward Europe and Asia, and she said they KNEW that a full one-third of the young men on those planes would never return ...

 

I'll add one book suggestion -- Roald Dahl's autobiography ("Going Solo") about his experiences as a pilot during WWII. Just fascinating.

[gardenmom5]

 

when my father was 12 he fled with his mother and 4 younger siblings to South Korea (his father had gone ahead when the border was still porous), paying someone to take them across the border at night (who could have betrayed them), his baby sister cried and they were shot at, but made it; they had to leave everything behind except what they could easily carry and sell later (silk and gold) - to this day my father regrets leaving the family photo album behind -- he tried to sneak it into his bundle but his mother saw it and took it out; they made it to the south as refugees and were sprayed with DDT by U.S. soldiers, I suppose to eliminate lice, etc. (he is bemused by this now); when the silk and gold were gone my father (a very dignified gentleman and NOT a salesman!) sold cigarettes on the streets of Seoul;

 

we have Chinese friends who came through Cambodia in the 70's. (I don't remember the whole escape route, or how they got where they did.  it's been years since I heard their story.)  their oldest was a baby and they were stopped by soldiers who would have sent them back.  she pinched the baby to make her scream.  the soldiers sent them on their way just to not have to listen to her.

 

I'm bemused why your father would now be bemused by being sprayed with ddt.  bemused means to be puzzled or confused.  am I missing something?

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

I'm bemused why your father would now be bemused by being sprayed with ddt.  bemused means to be puzzled or confused.  am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing the 3rd definition of:  : to cause to have feelings of wry or tolerant amusement  as stated in the Mirriam-Webster dictionary (and others).  

[gardenmom5]

Yes, you are missing the 3rd definition of:  : to cause to have feelings of wry or tolerant amusement  as stated in the Mirriam-Webster dictionary (and others).  

that's the only online dictionary I found that had anything to do with amusement as a definition for bemused.  the others I looked at, did not.  I've also read/used as class material books on words that are often confused, and bemused and amused have their own section.  giving the definitions for bemused with which I'm familiar, but not the merrian Webster's you cited.  perhaps because it has been used that way so often, they simply added it to their lexicon.  it's how words change over time -  certainly not the first word to change meaning in our lifetime.  and they do add/change definition of words.

[LibraryLover]

Thank you.

[LibraryLover]

If people are interested in the British experience during WWII for younger kids, the BBC's series, 1940's House is a gentle start.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Bedknobs and Broomsticks was my favorite movie as a kid!

[Laura in CA]

Yes, you are missing the 3rd definition of:  : to cause to have feelings of wry or tolerant amusement  as stated in the Mirriam-Webster dictionary (and others).  

 

Thanks, Jean - I am rushing off to do college-app stuff ... !! This is how I've always used "bemused" ...

[LibraryLover]

Another book recommendation, The Book Thief.  It tells the experience of 'regular' Germans during WWII, and of the Allied bombing of a civilian town.  It's a YA novel, but excellent for anyone wanting to see this side. I think a mature 12 year old can handle it.  I had my youngest read that before The Diary of Anne Frank. With my oldest dd, we did it in the reverse. All Quiet on the Western Front is about the lost generation of  young German soldiers in the first World War...a war of 'old men'.  It's an excellent read aloud.

[KathyBC]

 

I'd also never heard of the Armenian holocaust (term first used by the NYT in 1897?.) in history classes, but my mil's father was Armenian and escaped.  I've tried to read "the burning tigris" twice, but it makes me sick.  It is meticulously documented. 

I just finished Chris Bohjalian's The Sandcastle Girls, set in the Armenian genocide. I had no idea.

[LibraryLover]

Bedknobs and Broomsticks was my favorite movie as a kid!

 

 Do you remember the Old Home Guard? That is a teary scene. 

 

And please don't think I am saying B & B tells the whole terrible story, or is truly historical. I only mention the movie because it was one of my first introductions to 'the other side' (that, and A Thousand Paper Cranes & The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe)).   I remember thinking, "They may never see their parents again."

[Laura in CA]

we have Chinese friends who came through Cambodia in the 70's. (I don't remember the whole escape route, or how they got where they did.  it's been years since I heard their story.)  their oldest was a baby and they were stopped by soldiers who would have sent them back.  she pinched the baby to make her scream.  the soldiers sent them on their way just to not have to listen to her.

 

I really must stop posting, haha ... but that is a good story!

 

There are a lot of Chinese, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, etc. in our town ... *everyone* has a story ... 

 

oh, another good book -- "The Long Walk" by Slavomir Rawicz. I also found "We Die Alone" riveting (did I use that word right?!).

[Jean in Newcastle]

Another book recommendation, The Book Thief.  It tells the experience of 'regular' Germans during WWII, and of the Allied bombing of a civilian town.  It's a YA novel, but excellent for anyone wanting to see this side. I think a mature 12 year old can handle it.  I had my youngest read that before The Diary of Anne Frank. With my oldest dd, we did it in the reverse. All Quiet on the Western Front is about the lost generation of  young German soldiers in the first World War...a war of 'old men'.  It's an excellent read aloud.

Great books.  

[LibraryLover]

I was thinking about this overnight.  To make jokes about a country that only a couple of decades earlier had fought a war against the same country that led to the death of over a million French soldiers .... shows a cruel lack of imagination.  The casualty rate amongst French soldiers in WWI was 73%, vs 35% for British/Empire soldiers and 8% for US soldiers.

 

L

 

You all were in it for a long time. :( We (US) only joined in 1917.