New writing program from CAP...

[sagira]

Oh my, it does look interesting and engaging - and pretty :) Why did I look? I have Spanish for Children from the same company, CAP, but can't make heads or tails out of it. Not compatible with my teaching style or ds' learning style.

 

I haven't bought it yet, but I'm planning on using Wordsmith Apprentice.. It gets good reviews all around.

 

Maybe I'll just try the sample with ds9 (almost 10).

[mo2]

I do not need this.  I do not need this.  I do not need this.  WHY did I click on this thread??  I was all set to throw myself into Brave Writer this year. 

[Heidi]

I also trying to compare withMemoria Press CC and would welcome any thoughts in comparison based on the sample

We just finished the first lesson of CC this week. I read through the samples of CAPs program. The first thing I noticed, and was immediately turned off by, was that the fables in CAP are written in very simple language, whereas CC's fables contain a higher literary language, more description and beauty to them. There is definitely more hand-holding in CAP's program, but almost to a fault. Like another poster said, it is too wordy for my taste. It doesn't seem to require as much from the student as CC.

 

I I enjoyed the exercises in CC, but I'm not sold on it either. I did not like the outlining in CC, or the inversion exercise, because there was very little explanation on how to do these things. I think if we keep at it we will eventually get the hang if it. However I am also going to check out Classical Writing.

 

I am not a fan of CAP's products anyway, and was underimpressed with this writing program personally, but that is just my style preference.

[sltress]

I bought WWS for my 6th grader after I looked at the samples over and over and thought it was exactly what I wanted for him. Well I got it home and the first 4 weeks look doable but after that...oh my goodness. I think I would cry if I was asked to do the assignments. It just seemed to accelerate faster than I was hoping. I tried to consider that the first 4 weeks would have him prepared for the rest of the book but I really don't see it. I decided that, not only is it too hard for my 6th grader (who has no learning issues), but I don't think I am wanting it for 7th grade either. It would make for an unpleasant year for both of us. Not that every subject has to be happy and fun but why pull out your hair and frustrate your child if there is no need? Even though CAP Writing & Rhetoric is geared for the younger ages, it can still be a good progressive start towards writing paragraphs/stories classically. We have done WWE 2,3 and oral and written narration. I really like CAP's way of guiding the student to change up the sentences, use different words that convey the same meaning and rewrite the fable/narration. It also shows grammar use in the stories vs boring grammar exercises. Since he is older I think we can get through these first 2 books pretty quickly to give him the foundation of what's to come in the rest of the series. Just my 2 cents in case someone else was thinking their child was too old to use this. I thought he would be put off b/c of the grade level but I showed him the samples and he was interested.

[scrapbabe]

I do not need this. I do not need this. I do not need this. WHY did I click on this thread?? I was all set to throw myself into Brave Writer this year.

This is my plan too! We must resist!! :)

[Forgiven]

Oh man, it looks so good, but then I already have two writing curricula for my kids this year, but will only be able to implement one. Ugh. Why do I have to like so much stuff? Clicking away, and am going to try to forget this...that is until my youngest gets to 3rd grade...maybe then...

[Clear Creek]

I bought WWS for my 6th grader after I looked at the samples over and over and thought it was exactly what I wanted for him. Well I got it home and the first 4 weeks look doable but after that...oh my goodness. I think I would cry if I was asked to do the assignments. It just seemed to accelerate faster than I was hoping. I tried to consider that the first 4 weeks would have him prepared for the rest of the book but I really don't see it. I decided that, not only is it too hard for my 6th grader (who has no learning issues), but I don't think I am wanting it for 7th grade either. It would make for an unpleasant year for both of us. Not that every subject has to be happy and fun but why pull out your hair and frustrate your child if there is no need? Even though CAP Writing & Rhetoric is geared for the younger ages, it can still be a good progressive start towards writing paragraphs/stories classically. We have done WWE 2,3 and oral and written narration. I really like CAP's way of guiding the student to change up the sentences, use different words that convey the same meaning and rewrite the fable/narration. It also shows grammar use in the stories vs boring grammar exercises. Since he is older I think we can get through these first 2 books pretty quickly to give him the foundation of what's to come in the rest of the series. Just my 2 cents in case someone else was thinking their child was too old to use this. I thought he would be put off b/c of the grade level but I showed him the samples and he was interested.

 

I made the decision to get the first two books of Writing & Rhetoric for my 6th grader as well, for the same reason.  I had planned on doing WWS this year with her, but I highly suspect that it would make her hate writing.  She does not love it to begin with, but she is at a point that she will do it without crying and I really do not want her to regress.  The sample of WWS looks like it does not have one lick of fun in it, and in some ways it looks overcomplicated.

 

My plan is for her to do W&R at the rate of one lesson per day - I have her scheduled for 45 minutes of writing per day this year, and I think she can do an entire lesson in that time.  If she can't, I won't rush her - the point is for her to learn the skills presented, not finish the books by a specific date.  But I think her maturity will allow for her to work at that speed.  There are only 24 lessons between the two books (I think some are meant to take longer than others), so I imagine that she can be finished with the books in five to six weeks.  After that I have Blackbird & Co. Intro to Composition: The Essay for her to work through.  It covers the descriptive essay and the literary essay, and it looks positively delightful.

 

Since my daughter is 2-3 grade levels ahead of the books in W&R, my plan for the time being is to continue having her work through the year's books in the first quarter of each grade level, for as long as it works for us.  If I continue to like the series, that may end up being her primary instruction once she is in the higher-level books.  I am more concerned with the content that is being taught than the grade level assigned on the books. 

[Haiku]

The sample of WWS looks like it does not have one lick of fun in it, and in some ways it looks overcomplicated.

This was our exact experience with WWS.

[mo2]

This is my plan too! We must resist!! :)

My defenses are failing. I keep thinking, "Well, W&R is only scheduled for 3-4 days a week.  That still leaves time for poetry teas, Friday freewrites, etc."   Must be strong!

[sltress]

I am more concerned with the content that is being taught than the grade level assigned on the books. 

 

Agree!!  :)

[mo2]

After that I have Blackbird & Co. Intro to Composition: The Essay for her to work through.  It covers the descriptive essay and the literary essay, and it looks positively delightful.

 

 

I've never heard of this, and I can't get their website to load.  Do you have a link?

[LivingHope]

http://www.blackbirdandcompany.com/

[SEGway]

My defenses are failing. I keep thinking, "Well, W&R is only scheduled for 3-4 days a week.  That still leaves time for poetry teas, Friday freewrites, etc."   Must be strong!

 

I initially bought WWE3 (even though we started late last year and are only 2/3 of the way through WWE2). Then, I finally read most of my copy of TWJ this summer and bought Partnership Writing. I thought that using mostly PW with a bit of WWE copywork/dictation would be a good mesh. Then, I read this thread. I have now sold WWE3 in order to pre-order the Fable books and somehow mesh them with PW. I think it can be done! (At least, I imagine it could be...by someone... maybe...)

 

sigh.

[scrapbabe]

I initially bought WWE3 (even though we started late last year and are only 2/3 of the way through WWE2). Then, I finally read most of my copy of TWJ this summer and bought Partnership Writing. I thought that using mostly PW with a bit of WWE copywork/dictation would be a good mesh. Then, I read this thread. I have now sold WWE3 in order to pre-order the Fable books and somehow mesh them with PW. I think it can be done! (At least, I imagine it could be...by someone... maybe...)

 

sigh.

. I'd love to know how it goes. I'm gonna jump in with BW and get that running smoothly then maybe at winter break I'll take a look at adding in the CAP books.

[Chelli]

I got my books today!!!!! :party:

 I didn't think they would even be released until next week, but they arrived on my doorstep this afternoon! If it's possible they look even better in person than the samples showed.  :hurray:

[Mama2two]

I got my books today!!!!! :party:

 I didn't think they would even be released until next week, but they arrived on my doorstep this afternoon! If it's possible they look even better in person than the samples showed.  :hurray:

 

Exciting, did you order from the company or amazon?

 

[mo2]

. I'd love to know how it goes. I'm gonna jump in with BW and get that running smoothly then maybe at winter break I'll take a look at adding in the CAP books.

That's such a good plan.  That's what I'll do too.  I'll wait until winter to think about buying W&R.  Yep.  That's what I'll do.  (If I keep saying it, maybe it will actually happen!)

[Chelli]

Exciting, did you order from the company or amazon?

 

 

The company. I'm starting it next week and reading through it the rest of the week.

[boscopup]

The company. I'm starting it next week and reading through it the rest of the week.

Awesome! So I need to stalk my mail man! :lol:

[crazyforlatin]

The company. I'm starting it next week and reading through it the rest of the week.

Does it have color? Or is it just like the PDF version?

[crazyforlatin]

The company. I'm starting it next week and reading through it the rest of the week.

Does it have color? Or is it just like the PDF version?

 

Oops, I guess I was very eager to know this.

[Chelli]

Does it have color? Or is it just like the PDF version?

 

No color, but the illustrations are very nice.

[scrapbabe]

That's such a good plan. That's what I'll do too. I'll wait until winter to think about buying W&R. Yep. That's what I'll do. (If I keep saying it, maybe it will actually happen!)

. Ha ha! It w

[scrapbabe]

That's such a good plan. That's what I'll do too. I'll wait until winter to think about buying W&R. Yep. That's what I'll do. (If I keep saying it, maybe it will actually happen!)

. Ha ha! That would be a whole lot easier if these people would stop telling us how they got their books in the mail and how the books look even better than the samples. ;)

[boscopup]

I didn't have to stalk long! Mine arrived today too! :D

 

Question 1: Who all is removing binding from this thing? I can't imagine my son writing in the workbook.

[Chelli]

I didn't have to stalk long! Mine arrived today too! :D

 

Question 1: Who all is removing binding from this thing? I can't imagine my son writing in the workbook.

 

I've already got plans to have the binding cut off and have it spiral bound this weekend.  :lol:

 

So what was your first impression?

[mo2]

Yes, first impressions, please??

[Chrysalis Academy]

:bigear:  :bigear:

 

And in particular, when do you think this is best used (in a perfect world, what age/stage/grade?)  or, maybe more meaningfully, if you have used WWE2 or WWE3, how does it compare in difficulty?

 

I'm actually really excited about this for my dd7 . . . next year . . . so I don't need to do anything right now!!!!  :001_rolleyes:

[LivingHope]

Could these be done with just the teacher's editions...kind of like MCT?

[lorisuewho]

I'm driving to CAP to try to pick mine up tomorrow.  We probably won't use it until the end of the school year, but I'm excited to read through it!  I love the samples!

[StephanieF]

Also having doubts about using WWS with my 10 yr old 5th grader in September.  Should I start at the beginning of WWR and do it quickly by which time the other levels will be out (Spring).  Or should I just wait until Spring and start with the higher levels?

I have repeatedly looked at MP but it seemed overkill and very dull, is this just a simplified watered down version?

Stephanie

[SewLittleTime]

I ordered mine yesterday. I can't wait to get it. I had planned on using WWE 3 with ds2, but I think this will be a better fit and much more engaging for him.

[Chelli]

Here are my impressions after a cursory look through last night:

 

1) You could easily get by with just the Teacher's Manual (at least for these two books). You would want to make copies of the stories out of the TM to give to your child, but answers could easily be written on notebook paper.

 

2) Vocabulary is covered by looking up words and their meanings, then using the word in a sentence.

 

3) Some grammar is covered (nouns, adjective, and verbs) in the context of making strong sentences.

 

4) The sentence play section is probably my favorite. The give a sample sentence, then the student follows the instructions to change and reorder things in the sentence. Example: Use XXX as the subject of this sentence instead of YYY. This section, IMO, is where the real "learning" how to be a good writer takes place.

 

5) The books also include memory work (which you don't know from the samples). Students are asked to memorize a fable, two poems, and their own story summary in the Fable book.

 

6) Another one of my favorite things is the focus on elocution in these books. My dd is a great reader, but when she reads orally she tends to rush and skip words. I think that all of the practice with oral readings and the instruction given in the books on how to do this well will help her a lot.

 

7) The suggested schedule in the front of the books works for most of the lessons, but some of them you will want to split up over four days because the writing portion would be too much for one. And a couple of chapters could easily be completed in one session.

 

All in all I'm very happy with it. I know my dd will love it if for no other reason then she gets to record herself and present to the family!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Thanks, Chelli! That is really helpful.  

 

What do you think is the appropriate age/grade/level for starting these? Meaning, when do you think you'd introduce them to your next kid?

 

Or actually, since that's impossible to say as a generalization, here is a better question:  What do you think is the prerequisite knowledge for using this successfully?  Sounds like a basic understanding of parts of speech and sentence parts would be good, maybe something like Sentence Island?  Anything else that you feel is a basic prereq?

[lorisuewho]

I just picked mine up and I am seriously excited about this program even though we will not start it until the Spring.  This looks so much more interesting and child-friendly than MP's CC.  I love the emphasis not just on writing but also on speaking.  I'm glad I got the student book (although you could make do without it).  I think I will have my DS write in a composition book though so we can reuse the student book again.  It is nice for the student to have their own copy that doesn't have teacher notes all over it.

[Penelope]

What do you think is the appropriate age/grade/level for starting these? Meaning, when do you think you'd introduce them to your next kid?

 

Or actually, since that's impossible to say as a generalization, here is a better question: What do you think is the prerequisite knowledge for using this successfully? Sounds like a basic understanding of parts of speech and sentence parts would be good, maybe something like Sentence Island? Anything else that you feel is a basic prereq?

You didn't ask me, but I think this level is near perfect for my third grade son, who has done the first two levels of FLL and WWE 1 and 2, but writes most of his own narrations. I am reading some of the lesson (not the fable but some of the questions) with him and doing the lesson with him. But I expect that by mid-year, parts of the lesson could even be independent for him if I wanted them to be.

 

I think that a child who has not done any dictation or writing on their own could do it, it would need more props or adjustment from mom-- helping them form sentences, shortening the dictations, more time spent explaining the little but of grammar. I'll have a better opinion after I use it, but for my family I think it's a little young for fifth grade, and I'd think there must be something that would go through fable and narrative a little faster and at a higher level for less money than this. Just first thoughts.

[KeriJ]

Waiting for mine to arrive!  After reading this thread, I ordered the TM's only. 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Me too, because I am a silly, silly person.  

 

Also because I know my dd7 is going to get bored with WWE2 before the year is over, and I thought having this on hand might give me an idea of where I want to go with her next. . . 

 

and I've looked at so many writing curricula, and I mostly don't like any of them, and this one, I actually really like the looks of!

 

And, because apparently I am very easily influenced! (driiiiink the kool-aid, driiiiiiink the kool-aid!)

[Soror]

I just ordered as well. I kept going back and forth on trying to decide if I should just do some other writing integrated into our content and design it myself but all the positives of the program pushed me over the edge. I just ordered the teacher's manuals as well and at least w/ the discount code it was not terribly expensive.

[Chelli]

Thanks, Chelli! That is really helpful.  

 

What do you think is the appropriate age/grade/level for starting these? Meaning, when do you think you'd introduce them to your next kid?

 

Or actually, since that's impossible to say as a generalization, here is a better question:  What do you think is the prerequisite knowledge for using this successfully?  Sounds like a basic understanding of parts of speech and sentence parts would be good, maybe something like Sentence Island?  Anything else that you feel is a basic prereq?

 

Prerequisites: 

 

A basic understanding of grammar. FLL 1 and 2 would probably be enough since the grammar is very light.

 

Reading level would be important since the children are expected to read the passages themselves. The stories are not written at a high reading level, but a struggling reader might have trouble.

 

Honestly, though, writing stamina would be the most important. The students are expected to rewrite or write a summary of almost every story in the books. Some of the writing days they would be writing two of these on the same day. These are the days I suggest breaking up because even my dd who enjoys writing might not be able to do that and do it well.

 

Overall I think they have it labelled correctly as a 3rd-4th grade program. An advanced 2nd grader who had the writing stamina to match could probably do it as well. I think most students could start it in 3rd with no problems. Students who are writing phobic might want to wait until 4th.

[mommymilkies]

Enablers!!!

[Aloha2U]

I placed my order this morning!  

 

My initial plan was to begin the school year with the second half of WWE 4, complete it, decide on a space filler for second semester (if not WWS), and then begin WWS 1 in 5th.  However, my new plan works out much better.  We'll start the year with Writing & Rhetoric, completing both Fables and Narrative I during the first semester, and finish WWE 4 (2nd half) during second semester.  If we like the first 2 books this year and the looks of 3 & 4 in the spring when they're released, then I'll push WWS 1 out another year, so on and so forth, until I believe my little man is ready for it.  Until then, we'll take advantage of what W&R has to offer.   :thumbup:

[Chrysalis Academy]

Prerequisites: 

 

A basic understanding of grammar. FLL 1 and 2 would probably be enough since the grammar is very light.

 

Reading level would be important since the children are expected to read the passages themselves. The stories are not written at a high reading level, but a struggling reader might have trouble.

 

Honestly, though, writing stamina would be the most important. The students are expected to rewrite or write a summary of almost every story in the books. Some of the writing days they would be writing two of these on the same day. These are the days I suggest breaking up because even my dd who enjoys writing might not be able to do that and do it well.

 

Overall I think they have it labelled correctly as a 3rd-4th grade program. An advanced 2nd grader who had the writing stamina to match could probably do it as well. I think most students could start it in 3rd with no problems. Students who are writing phobic might want to wait until 4th.

 

 

Thanks, that's super clear.  My second grader is probably an advanced writer, at least in terms of stamina - they had them doing a ton of writing in the charter school last year, she was writing 5 or 6 sentence paragraphs pretty much every day.  So I think she's got the stamina thing down, and I think the reading level is fine, judging from the samples.  

 

I'm thinking of this as a 3rd grade program for her, but I bet (since I ordered it today ;) ) we start it at some point this year, because knowing her she will get really bored with WWE.  Learning to do narrations and copywork/dictation are on my non-negotiable list, but I will try to keep it as engaging as possible, and this looks like it could help - perhaps alternating lessons with weeks of WWE.

 

So I guess I can stop asking questions, just go sit by my mail box and  :drool5:

 

Thanks!

[kirstenhill]

I took the plunge and ordered today.  :hurray:  I showed the samples to DD and she was really excited about it.  I think it's going to add some good structure to our writing program.   I decided to buck the trend and order just the student manual.  DD really wants something she can write in, and we aren't going to do the copywork/dictation portion anyway (we'll do that type of thing with the cursive book DD wants to use and with our spelling). 

 

Since books 1 and 2 (fable and narrative) are only 24 weeks total and we have 32 weeks of formal, structured learning in our school year this year, we're going to intersperse some weeks of Write On! and maybe a few things from scholastic ebooks to fill out our year. 

[pgr]

I haven't seen this question raised - would it be ridiculous to start with book 2? I am not getting a definitive picture from the samples, but it seems that it would be closer to what we'd be needing if we were to use these books.

 

ETA: if buying just the TM, are you simply reading to the student? Somehow I think I should just call it a day and look at this again when it's not so very close to midnight :P

I was initially thinking the oral parts were conducive to snuggle on the couch reading - with just the TM that might be tough...

 

Other than answers and dictation, is there anything else missing from the student text?

[kirstenhill]

I haven't seen this question raised - would it be ridiculous to start with book 2? I am not getting a definitive picture from the samples, but it seems that it would be closer to what we'd be needing if we were to use these books.

 

ETA: if buying just the TM, are you simply reading to the student? Somehow I think I should just call it a day and look at this again when it's not so very close to midnight :p

I was initially thinking the oral parts were conducive to snuggle on the couch reading - with just the TM that might be tough...

 

Other than answers and dictation, is there anything else missing from the student text?

 

That's really all I saw that was missing.  Maybe a few teaching tips? I didn't feel like I needed the "answers", so I don't think I would use the TM much anyway. 

[Chelli]

I haven't seen this question raised - would it be ridiculous to start with book 2? I am not getting a definitive picture from the samples, but it seems that it would be closer to what we'd be needing if we were to use these books.

 

ETA: if buying just the TM, are you simply reading to the student? Somehow I think I should just call it a day and look at this again when it's not so very close to midnight :p

I was initially thinking the oral parts were conducive to snuggle on the couch reading - with just the TM that might be tough...

 

Other than answers and dictation, is there anything else missing from the student text?

 

In regards to the bolded, you could easily copy the story for the student from the TM so the student has their own copy of the story to read and mark up. They are only a couple of pages long. The questions for the most part can be done orally until you reach the writing section.

[pgr]

Thank you both for the info regarding the TM!

 

Is anyone considering skipping over book 1 and starting instead with book 2?

[Aloha2U]

Is anyone considering skipping over book 1 and starting instead with book 2?

 

I did momentarily... until I realized that, after coming from WWE (1-3 and half of 4), my little man could complete both books in one semester, so we may as well go for the full experience.  Even though it'll be a bit too easy for him at first, he'll still be learning as well as enjoying it.    

[mo2]

Those of you who have it in your hands already, do you think it would be appropriate for an 11yo who is not a strong writer?