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Thanks for the update -- I'd love to hear more updates from those who have been using it for the past month or two! 

 

I'm floundering with my plans this year...bought BraveWriter but haven't really done much with it, bought Partnership Writing and haven't even opened it. :(  So I would love to hear from anyone who ended up merging those and what the value is in that... or if it's just overload. 

 

Oh, and I have IEW's SWI-A but haven't been consistent with it. (And while one of my college students said that IEW really helped her be able to attack any writing assignment thrown at her, I didn't use IEW with them until 8th grade and I'm wondering if IEW with a 2nd and 4th grader is really the way to go...but that's probably for another thread!)

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Thanks for the update -- I'd love to hear more updates from those who have been using it for the past month or two!

 

I'm floundering with my plans this year...bought BraveWriter but haven't really done much with it, bought Partnership Writing and haven't even opened it. :( So I would love to hear from anyone who ended up merging those and what the value is in that... or if it's just overload.

 

Oh, and I have IEW's SWI-A but haven't been consistent with it. (And while one of my college students said that IEW really helped her be able to attack any writing assignment thrown at her, I didn't use IEW with them until 8th grade and I'm wondering if IEW with a 2nd and 4th grader is really the way to go...but that's probably for another thread!)

I keep wandering to this thread...but I have BW and PW and honestly it is going well. My dd loves writing. I want t be doing more, but I just need to DO it. But then I think, but if I had this.. :lol:

 

I need to use what I have this year and work harder to do more. There is such great stuff in BW...

 

I am curious how those who have done CAP's program for the last few months has gone...it is on the back burner as a thought for next year...

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We just finished up L9 yesterday and still love it. The only thing that hasn't fit is the memorization. It is just too much but ds has troubles w/ memorization anyway. Ds is really enjoying it and I'm finding it easy to teach. There is actually a fair amount he could do independently if I had another book. I am strongly considering buying the student book for the next book so ds can do some of the work on his own as I think he would enjoy it. It is really wrote towards the student and although we are doing it together now I think it will work best for him to do it on his own and just come to me for help on the rewrites as he still struggles when he has to write a lot. I think it is a good program that works for those who are reluctant and creative but a good amount of leeway for those who are natural writers as well. Two thumbs up, 5 stars, love it!

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We just finished up L9 yesterday and still love it. The only thing that hasn't fit is the memorization. It is just too much but ds has troubles w/ memorization anyway. Ds is really enjoying it and I'm finding it easy to teach. There is actually a fair amount he could do independently if I had another book. I am strongly considering buying the student book for the next book so ds can do some of the work on his own as I think he would enjoy it. It is really wrote towards the student and although we are doing it together now I think it will work best for him to do it on his own and just come to me for help on the rewrites as he still struggles when he has to write a lot. I think it is a good program that works for those who are reluctant and creative but a good amount of leeway for those who are natural writers as well. Two thumbs up, 5 stars, love it!

 

I have one that loves to write and one that is reluctant.  This has been a perfect program for both, I am amazed  how much my reluctant writer loves this.  You are right terming this as perfect for the reluctant but creative- perfect description of my boy!

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I keep wandering to this thread...but I have BW and PW and honestly it is going well. My dd loves writing. I want t be doing more, but I just need to DO it. But then I think, but if I had this.. :lol:

 

I need to use what I have this year and work harder to do more. There is such great stuff in BW...

 

I am curious how those who have done CAP's program for the last few months has gone...it is on the back burner as a thought for next year...

 

Ahh, Nicole, I can relate! I would actually love to hear what you're doing with BW because I haven't really found my niche there, but I suppose that doesn't belong on this thread. (However, PLEASE feel free to PM me or start a thread! Maybe it will motivate us both to use what we have??)

 

I really appreciate hearing some followup from those of you who have been using it for a bit now. I think we're getting to that timeframe where the novelty (or just the "newness") has worn out, so the fact that it is still going well for several of you bodes well. 

 

soror -- you mentioned that for the next in the series you would likely buy the student book...would that be in addition to the TM? I know several people earlier on this thread talked about doing just one or the other.

 

roadrunner -- is your 7yo also doing this? what other resources are you weaving in? The earlier posts referencing Kilgallon (sp? it's late!) led me to look that up as well. I've heard about it in past years but never looked at it. I assume you are just using the one elementary book? Why do I keep looking??

 

More updates are welcome, too! :) Thanks!

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roadrunner -- is your 7yo also doing this? what other resources are you weaving in? The earlier posts referencing Kilgallon (sp? it's late!) led me to look that up as well. I've heard about it in past years but never looked at it. I assume you are just using the one elementary book? Why do I keep looking??

 

More updates are welcome, too! :) Thanks!

My 7 year old isn't ready yet for CAP. Only my DS8 is working through this program. We are working through Killgallon Elementary School Sentence Composing (another week left to wrap it up). This program has been a perfect fit for my kid and he is sad that we are close to the finish line. We have seen tremendous improvements. I plan on working through EPS Paragraph Writing series along with CAP this school year (this is the series often recommended by Crimson Wife).

We will plan on staying with CAP for the long term, but I do plan to work in a year of IEW sometime over the next 2 or 3 years to further work on style elements. We are also planning to gradually increase the writing across curriculum.

This is as far as I can plan, since I don't know what his writing will look like in couple of years. Overall, I want to focus on stylistic elements, sentence and paragraph construction during the premaining elementary years, and shift to essay writing during logic stage.

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soror -- you mentioned that for the next in the series you would likely buy the student book...would that be in addition to the TM? I know several people earlier on this thread talked about doing just one or the other.

 

I'm not sure.  I think the student book would actually be sufficient with this program.  I already have the TM for the 2nd book of Level 1 though and I think I'll order the student book as well.

 

My 7 year old isn't ready yet for CAP. Only my DS8 is working through this program. We are working through Killgallon Elementary School Sentence Composing (another week left to wrap it up). This program has been a perfect fit for my kid and he is sad that we are close to the finish line. We have seen tremendous improvements. I plan on working through EPS Paragraph Writing series along with CAP this school year (this is the series often recommended by Crimson Wife).
We will plan on staying with CAP for the long term, but I do plan to work in a year of IEW sometime over the next 2 or 3 years to further work on style elements. We are also planning to gradually increase the writing across curriculum.
This is as far as I can plan, since I don't know what his writing will look like in couple of years. Overall, I want to focus on stylistic elements, sentence and paragraph construction during the premaining elementary years, and shift to essay writing during logic stage.

So, are you working on Killgallon alongside CAP and MCT Island, am I reading you right?  I have SC on my to-do list but I was thinking it was recommended to finish at least MCT Town first?  As it is we are doing WWE3 with WR1 so we are staying plenty busy in the writing department right now.  I was thinking of starting it when we finish WR1 as we should finish it w/ about 7 weeks left in the year and at that time should be through MCT Paragraph Town as well so I was thinking of starting it then(of course I don't have it in my hands yet so I'm not sure).  I've actually been working on scheduling it all out now.  

 

eta I just ordered SC so I can preview it and hopefully figure out when to do it.

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I really appreciate hearing some followup from those of you who have been using it for a bit now. I think we're getting to that timeframe where the novelty (or just the "newness") has worn out, so the fact that it is still going well for several of you bodes well. 

 

soror -- you mentioned that for the next in the series you would likely buy the student book...would that be in addition to the TM? I know several people earlier on this thread talked about doing just one or the other.

 

roadrunner -- is your 7yo also doing this? what other resources are you weaving in? The earlier posts referencing Kilgallon (sp? it's late!) led me to look that up as well. I've heard about it in past years but never looked at it. I assume you are just using the one elementary book? Why do I keep looking??

 

More updates are welcome, too! :) Thanks!

 

It's still a hit here! Proving to be exactly what I was wanting, for us, it's the perfect in-between for WWE and WWS. That being said, I foresee W&R's permanent line-up within our writing arsenal, along with WWS. We've completed 12 lessons thus far in Book 1: Fable. Fwiw, we prefer to use both the TM and Student Book, and that's definitely what I'd recommend. Only two more lessons—1 per week—to go before we begin Book 2: Narrative 1. 

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We had a late start to this program, but we totally love it! My daughter is a writer, it is hard to get her to do anything else. Ironically, I've never found a suitable writing program for her until now. CAP's Writing and Rhetoric has been so much fun for us to work together on. We're only on Lesson 3 (like I said we started late), but I know we've found ourselves a writing program we look forward to doing every week. Finally! 

 

We're using both TM and Student Book.

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Love the replies to my questions and the successes shared -- thank you! Maybe I will take the weekend to think things through on what to do here.... Two questions:  

 

1. Do the W&R books build on each other? (Meaning, could we jump in with the second set of books if we didn't want to do fables, or do you think it would really be better to do fables first?)

 

2. For Kilgallon Sentence Composing, is there just one all-in-one book? I was looking at this sample on Amazon and can't quite tell if that's all you need, or what. The sample pages all looked like TM pages...although I'm working on 4 hours of sleep at best and my comprehension  is somewhat compromised at the moment. 

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soror

So, are you working on Killgallon alongside CAP and MCT Island, am I reading you right?  I have SC on my to-do list but I was thinking it was recommended to finish at least MCT Town first?  As it is we are doing WWE3 with WR1 so we are staying plenty busy in the writing department right now.  I was thinking of starting it when we finish WR1 as we should finish it w/ about 7 weeks left in the year and at that time should be through MCT Paragraph Town as well so I was thinking of starting it then(of course I don't have it in my hands yet so I'm not sure).  I've actually been working on scheduling it all out now.  

 

 

Yes we are. Killgallon teaches appositives, adjective clauses, participial phrases, all things not introduced in the island level of MCT. We had no problem learning grammar alongside writing from Killgallon and frankly I am glad we encountered new things. It made the program more exciting for DS8. If you want the first exposure to grammar to come from MCT, then it would be wiser to wait until after the Town level, but it's not necessary.

 

 

Love the replies to my questions and the successes shared -- thank you! Maybe I will take the weekend to think things through on what to do here.... Two questions:  

 

2. For Kilgallon Sentence Composing, is there just one all-in-one book? I was looking at this sample on Amazon and can't quite tell if that's all you need, or what. The sample pages all looked like TM pages...although I'm working on 4 hours of sleep at best and my comprehension  is somewhat compromised at the moment.

 

This is the book we are using. My kid just writes his assignments in the notebook. I am not aware of any student pages. All you need is I this book
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Anyone have any comments on how it's working with older children (age 11 and up)?

I have a 9, 11 and 13 year old...and up to this point we have not done any formal writing...so I thought I would try CAP....granted we are only done with one lesson...but that went like flying colors...and I am looking forward to the next.   i will try to comment later on how it's going. 

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Yes we are. Killgallon teaches appositives, adjective clauses, participial phrases, all things not introduced in the island level of MCT. We had no problem learning grammar alongside writing from Killgallon and frankly I am glad we encountered new things. It made the program more exciting for DS8. If you want the first exposure to grammar to come from MCT, then it would be wiser to wait until after the Town level, but it's not necessary

Thank you for giving me something to consider, we might just roll into SC when we finish WR in the Spring. Or maybe after looking at it we might go ahead and completely drop WWE and do it alongside WR. I think it is another program that ds is just going to love and I don't know how much we are getting out of WWE that we aren't getting out of WR1. Do you feel MCT Town will be redundant? It seems I read that some skip the Grammar Town book and go straight to Paragraph Town but I might be misremembering. I wish I had some way to look at it all w/out buying everything.
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Do you feel MCT Town will be redundant? It seems I read that some skip the Grammar Town book and go straight to Paragraph Town but I might be misremembering. I wish I had some way to look at it all w/out buying everything.

I have no idea. I understand that MCT Town and Voyage levels are repetitive, but I have no clue if Killgallon and Town levels cover the same material. We are only planning to get Paragraph Town and Practice sentences for Town level. I hope I don't regret the decision. :)

 

Edited to add.

Change of plans! We will get all the components for the Town level, but will skip Grammar one in Voyages level.

Sorry for derailing the thread a little. Back to CAP! :)

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FWIW, I don't find MCT's writing books redundant, just the Grammar books at the Town and Voyage levels.  And they are very different from Killgallon, no repetition there.

 

Roadrunner, I do think you would regret skipping Caesar's English! IMO it's wonderful.  I almost said the best part of the program, but my dd would differ, she liked Sentence Island and Paragraph Town the best.  But the two CEs are excellent I think, and well worth it.

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It's still a hit here! Proving to be exactly what I was wanting, for us, it's the perfect in-between for WWE and WWS. That being said, I foresee W&R's permanent line-up within our writing arsenal, along with WWS. We've completed 12 lessons thus far in Book 1: Fable. Fwiw, we prefer to use both the TM and Student Book, and that's definitely what I'd recommend. Only two more lessons—1 per week—to go before we begin Book 2: Narrative 1. 

 

I had originally planned to use Classical composition as a bridge between WWE and WWS and then found this.  CC Fables looked a bit much for my kids this year, haven't decided if we will do it next year or continue with W&R (we are waiting until 6th for WWS)

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FWIW, I don't find MCT's writing books redundant, just the Grammar books at the Town and Voyage levels. And they are very different from Killgallon, no repetition there.

 

Roadrunner, I do think you would regret skipping Caesar's English! IMO it's wonderful. I almost said the best part of the program, but my dd would differ, she liked Sentence Island and Paragraph Town the best. But the two CEs are excellent I think, and well worth it.

Oh no. We aren't skipping Ceasar's English! I was only referring to grammar books. Sorry for the confusion. We are skipping only grammar Town in favor of Paragraph Town/practice Town combination. We thought in the Island level everything that was taught in the Grammar Island was repeated in the Sentence Island. We would have been better doing Sentence Island/practice sentences only. I am under the impression that is the case in the Town Level as well. DS8 gets really frustrated with too much repetition, so I am trying to accommodate a bit.

 

Edited to add.

Change of plans! We will get all the components for the Town level, but will skip Grammar one in Voyages level.

Sorry for derailing the thread a little. Back to CAP! :)

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I think you could do this orally and scribe. I do a fair amount of scribing for my son and I do a lot of it orally now as I only have the teacher's book. I think that he would need a good memory though for some of the exercises. I wouldn't want to start it unless he can narrate(orally) very well.

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I think you could do this orally and scribe. I do a fair amount of scribing for my son and I do a lot of it orally now as I only have the teacher's book. I think that he would need a good memory though for some of the exercises. I wouldn't want to start it unless he can narrate(orally) very well.

Thanks. He does narrate fairly well, but I think I am going to use this with my older two this year and start him in the fall. I doubt he will be reading and writing well enough by then, so I will scribe for him.  I really like what I have seen of the program so far!

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How many pages are in the student book for WR1? I am trying to figure out if it would be less expensive to buy one book and copy it for the other kids or just go ahead and buy each their own book?

152 pages. Don't buy a separate book. You don't need to write in the workbook (we use a separate notebook) and the only thing you would need to copy is a page from each chapter (the fable itself). They need to highlight/cross over in the fable, so they need a copy of the story, but all other written exercises can be done in a separate notebook. Get your kids to sit next to each other and read out questions from one copy.
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152 pages. Don't buy a separate book. You don't need to write in the workbook (we use a separate notebook) and the only thing you would need to copy is a page from each chapter (the fable itself). They need to highlight/cross over in the fable, so they need a copy of the story, but all other written exercises can be done in a separate notebook. Get your kids to sit next to each other and read out questions from one copy.

Thank you. I ordered the set today, with just 1 student book. It should arrive Wednesday! Can't wait!

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Anyone have any comments on how it's working with older children (age 11 and up)?

 

I have been using it with my almost 12 year old.  She is in 6th grade & was needing a fun writing program.  She really hadn't had any structured writing from being in public school & private school.  When I pulled her out to homeschool last January, the only writing she had done was journal writing & that was about it.  She is a natural writer, but hadn't had any structure with her writing.  I was reluctant at first since it said for 3-4 grade.  But, we love it!  It is our favorite part of the day!  I think it is challenging enough and it is helping me to have a guide for writing.  I am scared to death to teach writing.  We are really enjoying the fables & discussing them in depth.  I also like the dictation & that is something she had never done before.  I would recommend it for an older child.  In my opinion, it is easy to make adjustments to make it more challenging if you need too.  At this point, I just want her writing more then journal writing.  Plus, she is enjoying it!  :)

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I am so excited to find this writing program! Ds10 has completed WWE3 and we did some in WWE4, but we just weren't feeling it. I didn't think he was really learning or growing in his writing abilities. We're also using R&S 5 for grammar, so he is doing a few writing exercises in there. But I think this will fit in well now. I had been thinking of moving him into WWS1, but I kept wondering if he was ready. He's not a natural writer, and while I do want to teach him outlining, I think we'll save that for a ways down the road. 

 

So I just ordered and now I'm excited to see how this goes!

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Jumping on the wagon here!  

 

Just ordered Fable and Narrative for my DS10 who loves reading and is advanced but is not a natural writer.  We began WWS1 but he wasn't loving it and we never seemed to get around to him doing it.  I printed off the samples of Narrative, he completed the first two lessons, and he really enjoyed it.  He willingly was able to complete a lesson on his own.  I ordered the TM's and SM but probably will have him write in a composition journal so I can save the SM for DD7.  My plan is do have him go back and begin with Fable and complete both books this school year.  We'll probably use CAPs W&R along with WWS1 next year.  

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One more jump into the pool.  I loved the look of the CAP fable and narrative, bought the student editions, and am looking forward to using with my 10 year old when we get back from out of town trip.   We were/are using WWE3 and Classical Composition, and they are both going well, but the advantage with the CAP series is the way it works directly with the student.  I like the explanations of narration, etc.   

 

I don't plan to give up using CC but it's harder to teach.   WWE3 is nice but it is easy for him and takes <10 min a day.   I will probably keep using it too because of the literature choices and because he enjoys it.  

 

 Anyway, thanks for the CAP rec -- I :hurray:  even if my budget is groaning just a tiny bit.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

So I've started the Fables book with my reluctant writing, likely dysgraphic, and possibly stealth dyslexic (we're currently testing) 11DD - and I AM IN LOVE!!!!! 

 

I love that we can do most, if not all of the discussion questions orally.     I love the writing assignments.  She was hesitant at first, but today when I told her it was time to do an amplification (we're just on lesson 2) she said "Ok."  Let me repeat that.... SHE SAID OK!!!!!  No complaining, no fussing, no arguing!   The fighting we had while doing IEW is gone.  And the writing is some of the most creative stuff I've seen come out of her. 

 

I know it's early, and everything new has a honeymoon period, but I am beginning to have hope again.   This series may be the light at the end of our tunnel!

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So I've started the Fables book with my reluctant writing, likely dysgraphic, and possibly stealth dyslexic (we're currently testing) 11DD - and I AM IN LOVE!!!!!

 

I love that we can do most, if not all of the discussion questions orally. I love the writing assignments. She was hesitant at first, but today when I told her it was time to do an amplification (we're just on lesson 2) she said "Ok." Let me repeat that.... SHE SAID OK!!!!! No complaining, no fussing, no arguing! The fighting we had while doing IEW is gone. And the writing is some of the most creative stuff I've seen come out of her.

 

I know it's early, and everything new has a honeymoon period, but I am beginning to have hope again. This series may be the light at the end of our tunnel!

We are loving it too! We're four or five weeks in and there is nothing that I don't like about it. Wish it would have been around for my older two.
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So I've started the Fables book with my reluctant writing, likely dysgraphic, and possibly stealth dyslexic (we're currently testing) 11DD - and I AM IN LOVE!!!!! 

 

I love that we can do most, if not all of the discussion questions orally.     I love the writing assignments.  She was hesitant at first, but today when I told her it was time to do an amplification (we're just on lesson 2) she said "Ok."  Let me repeat that.... SHE SAID OK!!!!!  No complaining, no fussing, no arguing!   The fighting we had while doing IEW is gone.  And the writing is some of the most creative stuff I've seen come out of her. 

 

I know it's early, and everything new has a honeymoon period, but I am beginning to have hope again.   This series may be the light at the end of our tunnel!

Yes, my son is similiar and has loved WR1.  I couldn't be more pleased w/ this program and definitely plan on continuing it.

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I have two boys, less than one academic year apart. I am debating whether to start this with my oldest next year, or waiting another year and doing it with both boys together.

 

Would there be an advantage in teaching it together or separately? Would I be saving time by doing it together or driving myself nuts?

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We just finished Fable yesterday and we're both excited about starting Narrative next week.  We started doing our taped narrations on the camera as doing it w/ the 3DS he was having to do multiple recordings to get it all done. He really enjoys the recordings and I've seen a large improvement in elocution which I'm very happy about. 

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Hmmm. I'm not usually a currriculum jumper, but this is tempting me.

DD8 loves to write and finds WWE3 a bit dull. I think it is solid and works well. But this CAP looks like more fun, while accomplishing the same things and then some.

 

Can anyone who has used IEW with a 3rd or 4th grader and who has tried this offer a comparison? I was thinking of using IEW (either All Things Fun and Fascinating or SWI A) with her next year. She loves Andrew Pudewa from the poetry CDs and a few videos.

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Hmmm. I'm not usually a currriculum jumper, but this is tempting me.

DD8 loves to write and finds WWE3 a bit dull. I think it is solid and works well. But this CAP looks like more fun, while accomplishing the same things and then some.

 

Can anyone who has used IEW with a 3rd or 4th grader and who has tried this offer a comparison? I was thinking of using IEW (either All Things Fun and Fascinating or SWI A) with her next year. She loves Andrew Pudewa from the poetry CDs and a few videos.

 

I used IEW for half of the year last year with my 3rd grader at the time. We did the SWI A. Eventually my dd begged me to stop using it and I agreed. It was too formulaic for her. She has a very natural creative writing bent and IEW and WWE3 (to some degree) were dampening her creative tendencies. Stopping IEW is actually what led me to stumble upon CAP. There are quite a few similarities between IEW and CAP. Both programs have you working on making strong word choice and rewriting stories in your own way. CAP is similar to WWE in that it works on both narrating and summarizing stories. The one thing that makes CAP different, though, is that the creative aspect is much higher than with IEW, where the creativeness has to follow rules and structure, and WWE, where the creativeness is completely missing.

 

HTH.

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Can you give a bit more specific info or background or details? And how old is your dd? How long were you with the book? Thanks!

9.  We tried for a few weeks.  She's in speech and language therapy for what we're trying to figure out is either dyslexia, language processing issues, or something.  But even WWE didn't cause this level of frustration. 

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9.  We tried for a few weeks.  She's in speech and language therapy for what we're trying to figure out is either dyslexia, language processing issues, or something.  But even WWE didn't cause this level of frustration. 

 

We use IEW and I have looked extensively at CAP and I don't think it would work for my ds with similar issues either. Maybe it is the creativity element that Chelli mentioned? I'm only popping in to note this because there has been some chatter on other threads that "no one who has tried it dislikes it" and my point is just that some of us aren't even trying it because we can tell it wouldn't be the right fit.

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We use IEW and I have looked extensively at CAP and I don't think it would work for my ds with similar issues either. Maybe it is the creativity element that Chelli mentioned? I'm only popping in to note this because there has been some chatter on other threads that "no one who has tried it dislikes it" and my point is just that some of us aren't even trying it because we can tell it wouldn't be the right fit.

 

It's definitely more creative than WWE/IEW. I was surprised that my son was able to do it, because he's not usually creative! :lol:

 

The 3 week sample is pretty indicative of the rest of the book, so if they don't like the sample, they won't like the rest. It's definitely not going to be for every kid. There's no such writing program. :)

 

I think the hardest parts for my son are the summaries (I think the WWS method will work better for him when we get there) and the amplifications (he does them, but doesn't amplify a whole lot). He enjoys the program though, and it's starting to get him to use some creativity in his writing. They don't throw you into the ocean of creativity. They start out by having you rewrite a fable using different characters, so you can basically copy the fable but replace characters and actions as needed. That was doable for my son. They also do sentence play, replacing one word in a sentence and working up to replacing multiple words.

 

I still plan to use WWS next year in 5th, probably taking it slower than intended. I have no idea where CAP is going in the future (I don't totally understand the progym :tongue_smilie:), and WWS is very clear to me in its progression of building the skills I want my son to have in the near future. I know I can take the WWS assignments and use them across the curriculum very easily. I can't do that with CAP. CAP really is a separate writing program for us, which is fine this year, but next year I'd really like to do more writing across the curriculum.

 

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