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Anyone else fed up with Barton?


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My son is in Level 4.  Things are going swimmingly, and he's gaining a lot of confidence and skill in his reading.

 

But the new Barton tile app has sent me over the edge.  It is a free app, but you have to buy each level of tiles you want to buy--for $30 each!!  And, as with the wooden tiles, they will ONLY sell the tiles for the levels you have bought from them (which for me, is just Level 3.)  They act like they are protecting the crown jewels when they are talking about alphabet letter tiles--they did not invent them!!

 

I can't believe that if I were insane enough to want to spend $30 on Level 1 tiles (which correct me if I'm wrong consists of only 5 blank tiles, right????????) that they would actually turn me away.

 

I  have already paid through the nose to use this program, and have recommended it to others too.  I have tried to suppress my thoughts about it being ridiculously overpriced.  I understand that she is running a business and has put a lot of time and money into developing a quality product.  But she did not invent letter tiles, nor the O-G method.  Level 1 is $250 for 2 weeks worth of lessons!

 

I know she does a lot of speaking engagements for free and is helpful on the phone to many people, and I try to tell myself that it is probably an expensive program to produce.  Maybe I am just used to buying things mass produced in China for cheap.

 

But any mother of a child who has  cried over reading is in a vulnerable place and when you get to that point where you will pay ANYTHING even if you don't have anything, I'm just left feeling taken advantage of.  And also feeling a little stupid for not finding something that would work for less $.  Its a quality program, but at the same time it isn't exactly rocket science...

 

OK, rant over.  :drool5:

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The app was developed to help professional tutors who were struggling to manage (carry, set up, put away) the many, many tiles needed in the upper levels. I can't imagine you would need the app, which I have, if you are tutoring your own children. Put magnets on the backs of the tiles and buy a metal sheet from Home Depot and you should be good to go. :)

 

Sorry you are unhappy with the cost of the program. If it helps, you can resell the levels for a very good price.

 

The beauty of Barton is that it makes available an O-G program to parents. The other hard-core O-G programs are accessed through specialized classrooms for dyslexics. So the fact that you can buy it and teach your own child without having to go to a 3-month long training somewhere, or pay $30k for your child to attend a dyslexic school, is what makes it unique and very helpful.

 

But if you are unhappy with the price you are paying, there are many people on these boards who piece together their own O-G program for much, much cheaper. You might explore that route. I'm sure there are many post/posters who can help.

 

Good luck. :)

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I think you could exchange Level 1 if your child was past that level?

 

I only used Level 1 and, for kids struggling at this level, if ONLY if were 2 weeks of lessons. My son spent months at that level.

 

Maybe also look at AAS tiles :) I really like them and have used them with a lot of stuff. Bc it is true -- nothing too special about the letter tiles.

 

Still the videos for Level 1 were so helpful to me that I don't like to see it criticized. I agree it is pricy but for me -- it is something that really helped my son to learn to sound out words. When I have had a 6-year-old unable to blend and segment a CVC word ------ and tried and tried several other programs all cheaper but ultimately a waste of money ----- it makes Barton Level 1 a good deal to me.

 

I changed to traditional sequence after my son learned to blend and segment bc he attends public school and was young enough I thought he could catch up to his class.

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Sure, I wish it was cheaper, but if I had gone straight to Barton instead of spending the time and money on other programs I (and my DS) would be much better off. I have bought workbooks, leveled readers, and even paid for online resources. Some of it helped a little, but none of it was enough. I have easily spent enough over the years to pay for 2 or 3 Barton levels.

 

I have done what the PP suggested and bought a roll of sticky backed magnetic strip from Lowes for $3.50. I cut small pieces and stick to the tiles. I stick the tiles to a cheep cookie sheet that I got at the local dollar store. I am going to look for bigger cookie sheets when out church as its annual rummage sale in the fall.

 

I have thought about paying for the iPad app just because my DS gets all figity with the tiles and drives me crazy sometimes, but I am going to hold off on that for a while.

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Still the videos for Level 1 were so helpful to me that I don't like to see it criticized. I agree it is pricy but for me -- it is something that really helped my son to learn to sound out words. When I have had a 6-year-old unable to blend and segment a CVC word ------ and tried and tried several other programs all cheaper but ultimately a waste of money ----- it makes Barton Level 1 a good deal to me.

 

 

I know what you mean--in a sense it is worth it because we went from floundering and frustrated to reading.  So in a sense, any price would have been worth it.  

 

I think what is bothering me is the attitude of the company.  When i bought Level 3, they 'let' me buy Level 2 tiles and they made it very clear they were doing me a huge favor as this is very against their policy.  I felt like saying "I have $500 in my bank account, and I am spending $350 of it on your product, and you are doing me a favor?!"  Without the Level 2 tiles, i couldn't continue with Level 3--so in essence they were holding a $350 sale up over a set of $10 wooden easy to DIY tiles.

 

A main reason why anyone is willing to buy Barton in the first place is because of the high resale value, so I think they should be friendlier to the idea of people buying their product used.  The tile app with the exorbitant price (again, for a letter tile app??) just put me over the edge i guess in terms of not feeling like an appreciated customer.  I already have their expensive program, and am now supposed to pay $300 more if I want the tiles on an app?!  Except even if i wanted to buy it, they'd only 'let' me purchase Level 3 anyway.  I just don't get why they charge so much, unless the answer is that THAT THEY CAN. And this doesn't seem very customer friendly to me.

 

I know the comparison is often made to private tutoring, but that is rather convenient for Barton.  Really the comparison should be made to other book and DVD products, and then it would be much harder to justify the price.

 

I think they set their price based on their product having little competition rather than what a DVD and book should actually cost.  It seems predatory to me.  I know that is harsh language for a company that is dedicated to helping dyslexics read, but that is the sense I get dealing with the company.

 

Sorry, I guess I'm still in a ranting mood :)  I'll stop now...

 

 

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  The tile app with the exorbitant price (again, for a letter tile app??) just put me over the edge i guess in terms of not feeling like an appreciated customer.  I already have their expensive program, and am now supposed to pay $300 more if I want the tiles on an app?!  Except even if i wanted to buy it, they'd only 'let' me purchase Level 3 anyway.  I just don't get why they charge so much, unless the answer is that THAT THEY CAN. And this doesn't seem very customer friendly to me.

 

 

Just a couple of clarifications for you.  :)

You can do the program just fine on your own. You don't need the app. And there's really no reason you would want to buy the apps for levels you don't own. Not sure why that it bothersome to you that you can't buy the app for levels you don't own? You would have no idea how to even use the app for a level you don't own. It doesn't work that way. You still need to follow the manual--the app doesn't replace it.

 

Also, iIf you figured out how much it would cost you to send your child to an O-G school, or get yourself trained and setup with a different O-G program, I am quite sure the $3,000 cost of the entire Barton program (which would take probably at least 3 years to get through) would seem like a bargain.

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I think they set their price based on their product having little competition rather than what a DVD and book should actually cost.  It seems predatory to me.  I know that is harsh language for a company that is dedicated to helping dyslexics read, but that is the sense I get dealing with the company.

 

 

 

I agree. DS is severely dyslexic and has underlying issues that cause his dyslexia. Barton insists all these things are bunk and that if I use their program he will be fine. That is a HUGE turn off for me. The nearish Barton dyslexia center is just as bad. They posted non stop to debunk everything else DS is doing. NM the fact that DS cannot pass the student screening and needs some of these therapies and that his apraxia is a huge barrier to his ability to sound out words. Barton still insists everything else is bunk.

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This post doesn't make any sense to me. If you look at the Barton app it says the seller is Bright Solutions for Dyslexics. How would Apple of set the price? I know Apple has to approve an app, but I didn't think they have anything to do with pricing apps they don't produce.

 

My bad. I went back and checked the info I have, and you are right -- Apple didn't set the price. What I'm not going to disclose is how many years and money went into it. Let me just assure you both numbers are high.

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Although I do agree that the price seems high, from what I have seen, the app is more than just letter tiles.

It allows the user to track multiple students at the same time keeping track of where they are in the program which tells me that it was really intended for a turoring/school setting rather than home use. Also, it has the words for each section preprogrammed in, so that you don't have to take the time to make each word for the student to read.

 

I dont know this for sure, but I would assume that when you purchase a level on the app, you don't have to purchase the lower level to have those tiles appear. Meaning that if you purchase only level four the alphabet tiles and the unit tiles would still be there not just the new tiles for level four. You need to purchase the lower levels of the app if you are going to use it do do the lessons.

 

It seems to me that the program is really priced as if everyone is starting a tutoring business instead of home use. I wonder if that organization that sends out free curriculum to homeschoolers in need would have Barton levels? It would not be that hard for families to make there own tiles.

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My bad. I went back and checked the info I have, and you are right -- Apple didn't set the price. What I'm not going to disclose is how many years and money went into it. Let me just assure you both numbers are high.

 

I understand that. I am not saying that it isn't a good product or that they shouldn't have the right to price it however they want. I imagine they they had to pay a programmer to make the app. I know that most likely wasn't cheap. It just happens to be priced out of a range that I am comfortable with given all of the hoops I would have to jump through to purchase the level I need. 

 

Janet

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...

I think they set their price based on their product having little competition rather than what a DVD and book should actually cost.  It seems predatory to me.  I know that is harsh language for a company that is dedicated to helping dyslexics read, but that is the sense I get dealing with the company.

...

 

 

I don't think you have a good grasp on the manufacturing cost of highly specialized products that are marketable to a very limited portion of population.  It cost virtually the same to write the same book regardless of if it sells 1, 100, or 1,000,000 copies.  Similar with software--software designers charge what they charge regardless of how many people buy the product they were paid to develop. 

 

 Small scale production of just about anything is expensive. At least it is expensive if they use high quality material, produce a high quality product, pay the workers a living wage, and comply with all the laws and government regulations on businesses.  The majority of the manufacturing cost for something like letter tiles is in the building and setting-up the machine for production, and proofing the products and maintaining quality assurance so the product is consistent, plus handling, storing and, shipping. 

 

BTW, I have not bought the apps or software for the letter tiles.  We've bought eight levels of the program.  If the apps had been available earlier, I might have opted for them, but we've come this far without it and I'm not tutoring anyone but my own children inside my home so the hands-on letter tiles work okay.  We are using a lot of tiles at this point so the app is tempting, but I didn't want to pay the price so I haven't.  I am a little frustrated with having letter tiles all over my dining room, so I have considered buying the apps but my frugal nature so far has won out on that point. 

 

Also BTW, yes, I am slightly "fed up with Barton" as the thread title asked.  Not with the company or the product--because it is an excellent program.  But I'm fed up that I have to use these highly specialized products that are very teacher and time intensive instead of throwing cheap workbooks at my kids.  And I'm frustrated with myself because we haven't completed Barton yet. I'm having a hard time keeping myself motivated to work as hard at Barton since my son's reading is at his grade level now.  And I'm frustrated that despite all the work we've done on spelling with Barton and more, while my son's spelling is dramatically improved, "improved" is a relative word and his spelling is still bad.  And I'm frustrated that whenever I tell my son it's time for us to work on Barton, he seems "fed up with Barton" and doesn't want to do the work with me, because despite dyslexia (and likely dysgraphia), he's pretty much a normal kid.  And I'm also frustrated and slightly even "fed-up" that my seven year old, (who loves to work on Barton with me!), needs a program like Barton.  Rather than being fed up with Barton, I think what I'm really fed up with is dyslexia. 

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I am not using the tile app since I'm just tutoring one child at home.  I would only invest in them if I decided to get certified and tutor other kids.

 

As far as the cost of the program, it is expensive for homeschool families who usually only have one income.  But in the world of dyslexia, it's a dirt cheap bargain.  The entire program costs only $3,000, and I've sold each level for about $50-70 less than I paid.  So after postage and paypal fees, I'm out of pocket less than $1,000 for a program that takes my kid all the way through high school reading level.

 

It's the only OG program I know of that is written for ease of use by parents and volunteers.  Other OG program are complex and require training which may cost anywhere from $700 to $thousands.  Most OG tutors charge $50-$100/hour and a minimum of 3 hours/week is required for success.  Alternatively, there are private schools for dyslexic kids which typically cost $25,000 or more per year.  One of my sisters took that option, and honestly, I think Barton has been more successful for my daughter than 9 years of that school for her son.  It was a good school and he got a solid, well-rounded education, but he still reads and spells at a pretty low level.

 

I have family members with dyslexia, and when I realized that my dd was dyslexic, I told my dh from the get-go that I am going to find out what works and buy it.  I am not going to p*** around with cheap programs that don't work and waste time.  We did therapy outside the home for things that insurance would cover (6 years of speech and 3 years of OT), and we use Barton for reading since tutoring is not covered.

 

I am not writing to be argumentative or discount your frustration, but just to offer a different perspective.

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OP- I was excited about the idea of the tile app when I first heard about them. My son used Barton during speech therapy a year ago. I had considered starting back up again, but given the hassle I would go through since I didn't buy the first two levels from them (I don't have any paperwork to prove he went through the first two levels during speech therapy) and the prices for the level and the app I just can't purchase the product. I admit that I have had similar thoughts that you have posted about the company, and I do wish things were different.

 

Janet

 

Janet,

 

Have you called the company to explain that your son did Levels 1-2 with a tutor?  It's my understanding that in that situation, Susan will ether ship Level 3 or send you the post tests for 1-2 to confirm he's ready for Level 3.  I bought Level 1 used, so Level 2 was the first level I bought from the company.  I ordered online, but received either a phone call or email (can't remember which) to ask why I hadn't ordered Level 1.  I told them I had bought Level 1 used, and they shipped Level 2 without any additional questions or hassle.  I didn't have to provide any "proof".  They just want to make sure that people aren't skipping levels, because sometimes a parent might think a child is ready for a higher level when he or she is not.

 

 

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I think other people with her expertise do not care about under served kids in rural areas with no local options for learning to read. They make more money doing what they do in the places they can make more money.

 

I think the comparison should be with Lindamood Bell and not with reading programs that will not teach my child to read. None of us "want" to be in this boat.

 

But compare to LMB. They don't at all encourage parents to use their programs, they want people to pay $$$$ at their tutoring centers. I think that is a strong statement and I don't 100% agree with it, but that is what I compare to. Bc I am in the realm of also looking at LMB products etc.

 

But yeah after Level 1 and speech therapy I made a decision to go to Abecedarian and expect to do Rewards in the future. But that almost makes me appreciate the value of Barton more bc it IS a complete program, so it is not necessary to research so much every 6 months. But I like to do that, though I know I don't have the expertise of someone with years of professional training.

 

Part of it to I think, is afterschooling does not presume a lot of parent knowledge. It seems like -- I am a literate adult, it shouldn't be that unreasonable to think I will teach my child to read when I am devoting hours to it one-on-one.

 

But actually it doesn't totally work that way. The professional expertise is needed. If it was something an intelligent person could duplicate without needing special expertise -- well I just don't think that is the case. It is specialized and that is too bad, but much better than there not existing a program my son can be successful with.

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I think other people with her expertise do not care about under served kids in rural areas with no local options for learning to read. They make more money doing what they do in the places they can make more money.

 

I think the comparison should be with Lindamood Bell and not with reading programs that will not teach my child to read. None of us "want" to be in this boat.

 

But compare to LMB. They don't at all encourage parents to use their programs, they want people to pay $$$$ at their tutoring centers. I think that is a strong statement and I don't 100% agree with it, but that is what I compare to. Bc I am in the realm of also looking at LMB products etc.

 

But yeah after Level 1 and speech therapy I made a decision to go to Abecedarian and expect to do Rewards in the future. But that almost makes me appreciate the value of Barton more bc it IS a complete program, so it is not necessary to research so much every 6 months. But I like to do that, though I know I don't have the expertise of someone with years of professional training.

 

Part of it to I think, is afterschooling does not presume a lot of parent knowledge. It seems like -- I am a literate adult, it shouldn't be that unreasonable to think I will teach my child to read when I am devoting hours to it one-on-one.

 

But actually it doesn't totally work that way. The professional expertise is needed. If it was something an intelligent person could duplicate without needing special expertise -- well I just don't think that is the case. It is specialized and that is too bad, but much better than there not existing a program my son can be successful with.

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 NM the fact that DS cannot pass the student screening and needs some of these therapies and that his apraxia is a huge barrier to his ability to sound out words. Barton still insists everything else is bunk.

 

Have you done Earobics or something of that nature yet? And yes, I was watching my ds do the VMPAC (test of motor control) this week, where all he had to do was *repeat* a string of letter sounds.  That alone, when you get 4 sounds, is SO challenging.  You could see his mind slow down.  I don't see how someone is supposed to accomplish something cognitively ON TOP of that, when he's working so hard just to remember the sounds and get them out.  I would totally separate reading from speech and use non-verbal response methods.  The Rapid Prompting book explains some, or you could use letter tiles, whatever you think up. It's also possible to learn to read without sounding out, but it sounds like Barton doesn't teach it that way. Again though, that's a way to separate out speech and reading.

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I understand your frustration at having to spend so much money on a program to help your child. I've used levels 3-8 of Barton with my dyslexic student, and it is a big investment. However, we could not afford private tutoring, even if it was available in our area. I used another expensive program before this one and I HATED it. Furthermore, once I bought it, I was on my own. Not only was it not that helpful to my daughter, I felt like it was more difficult to teach and left gaps that Barton actually addressed.

 

Part of the cost of Barton is the YEARS that I'm sure Ms. Barton spent developing the program. It is a very well thought out program that teaches reading and spelling thoroughly and methodically for those students who need it taught that way. Another factor in the cost is the nearly immediate and constant access to Ms. Barton's help with any question. She has been nothing but kind and helpful every time I've e-mailed her with a question or concern. There is no doubt in my mind that she truly wants to help people be successful in reading and spelling and therefore more successful in life. I appreciate all the work she has put into this. And I bet if we knew how much she actually makes from this program, it would be much less than we think.

 

As far as the app goes, I went through levels 3-8 without it, because it hadn't been developed yet. You don't need it. It think it would be wonderful and so worth it if I were tutoring multiple students, though.

 

And, Merry, I agree with you! I'm tired of dyslexia! It makes my job as a homeschool mom so much harder. Yet I'm thankful for it, too, because I've learned a lot about accepting people as they are and realizing that sometimes people have issues that I don't know about. Therefore, it is unfair for me to judge them. I was always an excellent student and never had problems in school. I was pretty judgmental about others' spelling or grammar mistakes, or what seemed to be a general ignorance. Now I realize not everyone has been given the same gifts and some haven't ever had their issues addressed. Or they have been told they are stupid all their lives. I realize that I need to give people the benefit of the doubt, because they are dealing with things I don't even know about or understand.

 

Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with Bright Solutions for Dyslexia, just a Barton user who is thankful to have found a program to help my sweet girl.

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I personally believe that Barton is shooting themselves in the toe (not the foot because I don't think the effect is that high) by their policy of "must buy the level to get the tiles", however I also think this is relatively common attitude for authors - feeling that used sales is eating into their profits and setting up policies that attempt to lower the number of used sales. 

 

In comparison Lindamood Bell may be less verbally supportive of home teaching but you can buy what you want from them - they have set up no barrier to buying portions of the product used and portions new.   

 

As far as the app - my experience is that new entrants to the app market often price their apps high - no doubt due to the cost of creating the app.  Generally though the price gets lowered at some point when they figure out they will get far more sales that way.    However, I wonder if Barton will go that way considering they have linked the app purchase to their worry about the used market  (Edited to remove mistaken information about the Barton app )

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Why can't one make their own tiles? What is so special about the tiles?

 

I don't have time at the moment.. Perhaps later, but I have a link where a mom created her own tile sheets for printing. She cut up flat, free advertising fridge magnets and glued them to each individual tile. If I can find the link later, I'll share.

 

I hate the costs for everything associated with a learning disabilities. Add the disability into the title of most books and be prepared to spend a ton of money to read it. My library is such a bust. A inter library loan can take months.

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I personally believe that Barton is shooting themselves in the toe (not the foot because I don't think the effect is that high) by their policy of "must buy the level to get the tiles", however I also think this is relatively common attitude for authors - feeling that used sales is eating into their profits and setting up policies that attempt to lower the number of used sales. 

 

In comparison Lindamood Bell may be less verbally supportive of home teaching but you can buy what you want from them - they have set up no barrier to buying portions of the product used and portions new.   

 

As far as the app - my experience is that new entrants to the app market often price their apps high - no doubt due to the cost of creating the app.  Generally though the price gets lowered at some point when they figure out they will get far more sales that way.    However, I wonder if Barton will go that way considering they have linked the app purchase to their worry about the used market (and I do not believe you will get all the old tiles when buying the Level 4 app but only the level 4 tiles thus forcing you to buy all levels directly from Barton).  Here I really I think they are shooting themselves in the foot in the long term - because there are no doubt many people who will never use Barton who would buy a OG alphabet tiles app.

 

Exactly...and same with Wilson, Recipe for Reading, or any other OG products I've seen.  If you want to order just one part of any of those programs, you can.  I think Barton's argument is that it has to be sold together because you have to do the whole program in order to be effective, but I don't buy that.  I think its a business decision.

 

And I wondered the same thing about the tiles.  By setting the price so high, they are basically guaranteeing very few will buy it.  I honestly was expecting the app to cost $14.99 and to include all the tiles.  I think many, many people would buy it at that price (like you said, whether Barton users or not) and they'd end up making more money.  I just don't get why they are being so proprietary and possessive over THE ALPHABET.

 

My biggest fear with Barton is that I am sitting on all these completely overpriced materials and then the bubble will burst and I won't be able to get my money out of it.  All it will take is someone from Wilson to write some lesson plans...

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Try the Sound Literacy app to use with Barton, Wilson, AAS, whatever OG-derived program you are using. I believe I made a one-time $16 purchase (no in-app purchases), and I've been very pleased. You can create custom tile sets for individual students, create custom tiles, and build custom tile palettes. HTH!

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Just a point of clarification.

 

The Barton app was not designed as a generic app for people to use in place of generic letter tiles. Instead, it follows the teacher's manual and has the words listed in the manual predone on tiles, so that the teacher does not have to build, and then put away, words out of tiles. It also has a section to track multiple students' progress. It's really designed for a professional Barton tutor with multiple students. It would be of very little use to someone not using the Barton program.

 

That's all. Let the discussion continue. :)

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Oh, ok.  That actually makes a big difference.  If it has parts of the lessons built in, such as the words for each lesson, then I can understand that they wouldn't want to 'give that away.'  Thanks for the clarification.

 

I take back part of my rant. ;)

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We use Sound Literacy and it works great with both Barton and AAS.

 

Overall though I agree with you. I'm frustrated that I have to watch 4 hrs of patronizing DVDs each time I need to move up a level. That material could easily be condensed into half the time. She also seems to assume that just because I have a kid with dyslexia I'm stupid. I know how a white board works, for example, and do NOT need to watch it explained to me. I need to use Barton and go slowly with 1 kid, but it was definitely a decision of last resort. I can't stand the DVDs.

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And I wondered the same thing about the tiles.  By setting the price so high, they are basically guaranteeing very few will buy it.  I honestly was expecting the app to cost $14.99 and to include all the tiles.  I think many, many people would buy it at that price (like you said, whether Barton users or not) and they'd end up making more money.  I just don't get why they are being so proprietary and possessive over THE ALPHABET.

 

 

I think the app isn't just the tiles... all the words are pre-built, so you don't have to take the time to build them one tile at a time.

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We use Sound Literacy and it works great with both Barton and AAS.

 

Overall though I agree with you. I'm frustrated that I have to watch 4 hrs of patronizing DVDs each time I need to move up a level. That material could easily be condensed into half the time. She also seems to assume that just because I have a kid with dyslexia I'm stupid. I know how a white board works, for example, and do NOT need to watch it explained to me. I need to use Barton and go slowly with 1 kid, but it was definitely a decision of last resort. I can't stand the DVDs.

 

The way she talks on the DVDs kind of annoys me, too, but since I found out why she does it, it doesn't annoy me as much.  A lot of dyslexic kids have dyslexic parents, and some dyslexic adults (and kids) process what they hear slower than average. Don't tell her, but I haven't watched the videos since level 1. :-)

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I watched the Barton Level 1 videos at least 3 times, maybe 4. I also would rewind parts as I watched.

 

I did not have a clue how to model things or break things down.

 

I also was really helped by the error correction videos from Abecedarian.

 

There are things where I really just need to see things done. Reading a description does not make me understand what to do.

 

I am also that way with cooking. I do much better with a video than just a written recipe, when it is something I haven't done before.

 

I had tried looking for OG videos on YouTube, and while I found some, they didn't really help me.

 

If we lived nearer than 3 hours from a private school that offered evening seminars for parents, that would also be a good option for me. But we don't have any local options. Local options I looked at have kids guessing words from context clues.

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My son is working through Barton at a tutoring center, and the app has been a real boon for them, but I don't see it being useful for the average parent using Barton at home. For a tutoring center, it seems well worth the price (mind you, I had no idea of the price until I read this thread).

 

I'd like to add that I'm fed up with the fact that is is taking my son SO.DARN.LONG to get through Barton. Two years in, he's just finishing up level 4. I don't think it's because there's something wrong with the program or the center, though. I think it's exactly what my son needs and that he's moving through it at the pace that works for him. His pace has, in fact, sped up quite a bit in the past six months. Mind you, his teacher last year was absolutely thrilled with the amount of progress he made in reading over the school year. I'm sure his 3rd grade teacher will be impressed with his progress as well.

 

Oh, and the other thing I'm fed up with is that our public school system (along with most public school systems) doesn't use Barton or anything like it for reading intervention. The reading intervention my son has had at school is absolutely worthless for dyslexics. If anything, it's harmful. I'm still trying to cure him of guessing from pictures and context, and he's still being told to do that in school.

 

FWIW, I heard Susan Barton speak at the local school for dyslexics (which costs 25k a year) this spring. Her talk was a wonderful summary of what dyslexia is and how dyslexics need to be taught. At the very end of 3 hour talk she named programs that can be used effectively to teach a dyslexic to read. This was the only time she mentioned Barton Reading and Spelling. She said "I wrote this one, but any of the others are equally effective." I'm sure the prices she charges are decided upon in part for business reasons, and I'm sure she and her organization sometimes make a bad decision. However, they also do a whole lot to help dyslexics, even those who aren't using their program.

 

Also FWIW, my son's center uses techniques outside of Barton when they're helpful to the student. My son's tutor noticed that he had a hard time focusing with black text on white paper, so she started printing everything on blue paper for him. The director went to a seminar on straight Orton Gillingham techniques, and taught all of the tutors some helpful things that are slightly different from Barton. For the youngest students who come in, they often start with Letterland (a multisensory phonics program from the UK) for basic letter learning. They're also very friendly to homeschooling parents who are using Barton on their own. A homeschooling friend of mine has called them up a couple times to ask questions and been very well received. A friend of a friend is pulling her dyslexic daughter out to homeschool her this year and using Barton. They let her sit in on a few sessions to get a feel for the program. This was done free of charge.

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I am loving the app for my daughter at level 7. It was getting to where we were dreading setting up the tiles everyday because there were so many tiles by that level. I love that every word in the instructor guide is prebuilt and we just have to hit next. It has made the sessions go much faster and more fun.

 

You don't need to buy the app at all. You can still just buy the original box with the tiles. For people buying a new level there is a choice to buy the level without the tiles for $10 less if you are just planning on using the app.

 

Susan Barton herself, does not recommend buying the app for the first few levels. I could see it as a professional, but I think the tiles are useful for the first 3 levels.

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I was also a little surprised and disappointed by the price of the tiles app, but somewhere (either the bright solutions website or the newsletter), I read that it took years to make this app. The first developer spent two years on it and never could build the app, so they had to hire a totally new developer. Even though the app is expensive, I think it's well worth it for Levels 3 or 4 and beyond.

 

I have used the tiles app for Levels 3 and 4 with my 8 year old son. We did Levels 1 and 2 last summer before the app was out. I agree that the wooden tiles are better for Levels 1 and 2, and maybe 3 as well. But my son was soooo much happier with the tiles app than the wooden tiles when I started using it for Level 3 this summer. It's been less of a struggle getting him to do Barton. The lessons go faster since I don't have to build the words, and my son thinks using the iPad is more fun. The other reason I love the app is that I can use it while we are reading together. Sometimes I'll pull out my iPad at the end of a chapter and show him how some of the words in the chapter follow the rules in the Barton lessons he's learned, or I type in a word that he's read and ask him how to divide it into syllables using the rules in Level 4.

 

Although we are only on Level 4, I've already bought the Levels and tiles apps (and watched the DVDs) through Level 8. My son is one of those kids who has a million questions about everything, so as we work our way through Barton he is constantly asking about other words. I like being able to answer his questions using the method Barton teaches, so I usually say something like, "we'll go over this more thoroughly in Level _, so you don't need to learn this just yet, but the short answer is XYZ. ". This seems to satisfy him, and I like being able to answer questions in a way that won't be different from what he learns later in Barton.

 

It's tedious, but I am so grateful for Barton, because it's the only thing I've found that seems to work for us.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Susan Barton said it took her $100,000.00 of her own money to develop the app. Apple keeps 30% of sales. At this rate she would have to sell 4762 apps in order to break even....well maybe come close to breaking even...she probably has attorney fees and who knows what other fees went in to it. It is also 100% geared towards Barton. From what I've read, I can't imagine someone who isn't using Barton purchasing it. Thus, the customer base is severely limited (Barton users only). 

 

I empathize with you. The financial burden of dyslexia is huge. I would love to purchase the app, but first I need an Ipad. Every direction I look is $$$$$.

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Susan Barton said it took her $100,000.00 of her own money to develop the app. Apple keeps 30% of sales. At this rate she would have to sell 4762 apps in order to break even....well maybe come close to breaking even...she probably has attorney fees and who knows what other fees went in to it. It is also 100% geared towards Barton. From what I've read, I can't imagine someone who isn't using Barton purchasing it. Thus, the customer base is severely limited (Barton users only). 

 

I empathize with you. The financial burden of dyslexia is huge. I would love to purchase the app, but first I need an Ipad. Every direction I look is $$$$$.

 

Since you have to buy all levels separately, $100,000 is only 477 people buying all 10 levels.

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While Barton irritates me, too, at times, it has worked for us when nothing else did.  One year, in just a month and a half, we spent over $800 on specialized dyslexia tutoring for our kids, and it didn't help at ALL.  In fact, it confused the kids terribly.  Instinct kept telling me that the tutor was using a system that wasn't working for my kids, but I decided to trust her expertise and it nearly bankrupt us.  Finally, I did additional research and asked for advice from the assessor who diagnosed my kids.  I convinced the tutor to let me sit in (discreetly) on several sessions and became concerned about her methods.   I went to the tutor with my research findings and asked why she wasn't using certain things that were usually successful with dyslexics and why she was using other things that had been proven to NOT work with many dyslexics.  She insisted that her system worked and that I needed to be patient, but everything inside me said we needed to change our course.

 

I decided that for our financial security and my kids' self-esteem, I would have to do something on my own.   I found Barton, was eternally grateful for the DVDs cause I couldn't have taught it without them, and began tutoring my own kids.  We saved a lot of money in tutoring fees and more importantly began seeing results almost immediately.  My daughter just passed an independent criterion-referenced spelling test with a 100, and it was a list she did no studying for ahead of time.  She used methods she had learned in Barton to pass that test.  Spelling had been her worst subject all the way through 5th grade, frequently getting single digit scores on her tests.  Passing that test with a 100 was worth every penny we have paid for her boost in self-esteem.  She even ASKED the next day if we could start Barton early and do a longer session.  The system may not work for everyone, but it is working for us, and is far, far cheaper than if we had continued with private tutoring.  We are not yet using the app for the tiles, but will consider it for higher levels.

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Wow, that is frustrating!  I know that someone else I know did have to prove that they really had purchased a used Level to get the company to work with them.   It took a bit of effort and they were kind of irritated at the process. After that, though, things went really smoothly.  When I got Level 3, one of my disks was defective and Susan Barton herself responded to my e-mail within an hour or so and overnighted me a new disk at her cost.  Maybe, if you jump through a few hoops for Level 2, you won't have to do so much for higher levels since you will have already developed a relationship with them?  I know that isn't much comfort when you are having to deal with so many frustrations...Good luck!  So sorry this is such an aggravating process!

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I will admit I haven't read every response, but the app is not just a tile app, all of the words for a level are pre-built for you making it quicker to get through parts of the lesson.

 

You do NOT need to buy levels lower than where you are, each level is totally complete for that level. 

When I started Barton with my daughter last spring I didn't think she needed level 1 because she'd been working on another O-G program.  I emailed Susan, and she sent me the post-test for levels 1-3 to see where the best place for my daughter to start would be.  When I decided on level 2 just to make sure a few things were really mastered Susan called me personally and said she was including the level 1 discs at no charge so that I could watch them in addition to the level 2 discs so I would really understand the program. 

When I bought the app (we're in level 3) I requested being able to buy levels 1 and 2,  I hadn't bought level 1 from them but had picked it up from a friend because I had thought of maybe tutoring.  Susan emailed me saying that I hadn't bought it from them and when I emailed back saying I'd gotten it from a friend she just unlocked that buying option for me.  No picture was required. 

 

I can see how the app would be best for tutors managing many students, but it sure comes in handy for my daughter as it takes us so much less time to set up and reset between words etc.  I can really see how as we add more tiles it will become more and more convenient. 

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