omd21 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Hello ladies! I'm new to homeschooling and new to Classical Ed. My fifth grader is a natural speller and writer. She was doing very well in Language Arts in PS last year, writing good essays that were several pages long. I'm not sure that I want to eliminate grammar altogether, however, since this is our first year together and I want to make sure she is truly solid before skipping any content. I've been looking at RS Following the Plan as suggested in TWTM, vs. MCT Magic Lens 2. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think for MCT you would want Grammar Town or Grammar Voyage level. There is more than meets the eye to MCT. Has she covered much grammar in ps? As far as which to use, I really like MCT, but I do want my kids to learn diagramming and MCT doesn't have the students do that, MCT doesn't teach writing the way I would like, and it isn't as thorough in grammar and mechanics as I would like. That said, with a natural writer, you may find it fits your needs well. I bailed on it at he Voyage level because I realized I don't want an all-in-one LA program at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Both are good solid programs. However, after using R&S for a while, you could not pay me to go back to it. We found it to be boring and...boring! We loved the approach of MCT. I would suggest that you consider beginning in Magic Lens 1 or a level before. I used Magic Lens with my junior high/high schoolers and it was rigorous. The approach is different than usual so your daughter would potentially benefit with beginning at the beginning. There used to be a placement article (test?) on the RFWP website. If she is already doing well with grammar and writing, I think she would enjoy MCT much more than R&S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omd21 Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 Both are good solid programs. However, after using R&S for a while, you could not pay me to go back to it. We found it to be boring and...boring! We loved the approach of MCT. I would suggest that you consider beginning in Magic Lens 1 or a level before. I used Magic Lens with my junior high/high schoolers and it was rigorous. The approach is different than usual so your daughter would potentially benefit with beginning at the beginning. There used to be a placement article (test?) on the RFWP website. If she is already doing well with grammar and writing, I think she would enjoy MCT much more than R&S. I called RFWP to get their opinion on the appropriate level as well and they suggested Level 3- Voyage Level. They advised me to wait a couple of weeks since Caesar's English 2 will be coming out soon. I then found out from DD that she used MCT's Caesar's English 1 in enrichment/ gifted in PS last year. So it sounds like the recommendation was spot on. Are all the books (7) in the bundle necessary in your opinion? I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible for our first year and that sounds like a lot. Thank you! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I called RFWP to get their opinion on the appropriate level as well and they suggested Level 3- Voyage Level. They advised me to wait a couple of weeks since Caesar's English 2 will be coming out soon. I then found out from DD that she used MCT's Caesar's English 1 in enrichment/ gifted in PS last year. So it sounds like the recommendation was spot on. Are all the books (7) in the bundle necessary in your opinion? I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible for our first year and that sounds like a lot. Thank you! :) We did not incorporate the poetry series. I used them a little during summers but not as part of the program. I know that the MCT people prefer that it all be used together and it probably makes a beautiful program :) but, IMO, my boys just needed aspects of it because they were doing other literature programs. I loved the vocabulary program as well as the grammar part. We did the writing part, but writing is not loved by my boys :) I started out with Magic Lens 1 so I really cannot comment on the lower levels...I know there were differences in the programs with regard to the teacher materials and what was necessary. Hopefully someone else can chime in with information about the lower levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omd21 Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think for MCT you would want Grammar Town or Grammar Voyage level. There is more than meets the eye to MCT. Has she covered much grammar in ps? As far as which to use, I really like MCT, but I do want my kids to learn diagramming and MCT doesn't have the students do that, MCT doesn't teach writing the way I would like, and it isn't as thorough in grammar and mechanics as I would like. That said, with a natural writer, you may find it fits your needs well. I bailed on it at he Voyage level because I realized I don't want an all-in-one LA program at this level. Have you found a program that you like to fill in those gaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 We've used MCT since Island level, along with this book: http://www.amazon.com/Diagramming-Sentences-Deborah-White-Broadwater/dp/1580372821/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374712852&sr=8-2&keywords=grammar+diagramming Magic Lens level is much drier than the first 3 levels; we are on ML now, but we started with Island when my ds was 11 and progressed fairly quickly to Magic Lens over 2 years. He LOVED Sentence Island and Paragraph Town; the stories are engaging and hilarious, and even "I" learnt more from SI than I ever did at school! Like others say, there is a lot more to the first 3 levels of MCT grammar than meets the eye. She will not be bored with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Have you found a program that you like to fill in those gaps? No, not one program, unfortunately. I am using Writing With Skill for writing, and the Sadlier-Oxford Vocabulary series. Both have worked well for us, and the vocabulary can be done independently. I'm sure we could use MCT vocabulary, but the workbooks we are using are a little simpler to use, and we also do Latin so are getting some vocab there. But I still think about going back to MCT for just the vocabulary books. We used Rod and Staff last year. It's very thorough, but yes, it can be dull. I'm looking to try something else this year for grammar, but still thinking about it. I have seen at least one poster on these boards suggest using MCT with a diagraming book added in; you could learn how and then diagram the sentences in the MCT practice book after parsing them. Also something for mechanics, maybe an editing practice book like Great Editing Adventures, Editor-in-Chief, or Fix-It. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffybunny Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 No, not one program, unfortunately. You might have missed my link: Grammar Diagramming: http://www.amazon.com/Diagramming-Sentences-Deborah-White-Broadwater/dp/1580372821/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374712852&sr=8-2&keywords=grammar+diagramming This book was very helpful and very simple and easy to use. It's the only other thing you need along with the MCT books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 You might have missed my link: Grammar Diagramming: http://www.amazon.com/Diagramming-Sentences-Deborah-White-Broadwater/dp/1580372821/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374712852&sr=8-2&keywords=grammar+diagramming This book was very helpful and very simple and easy to use. It's the only other thing you need along with the MCT books. No, I'm aware of those books. I own a separate diagramming book, too. :) I just disagree that it's the only thing missing, as in my post, above. Some would also add mechanics practice. I also think that the writing instruction is not specific enough for every child and parent. It's enough for some to give some examples and then given assignments, but I prefer a more explicit approach that breaks the process down a little more. At least right now, with my oldest, "guinea pig" child. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourcatmom Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 I have never used RS but I will chime in on the little and brief experience I have had with MCT. I have a 6th and 7th grader and was very nervous about spending money on MCT for their age but I was really drawn to it. After many conversations on here (some public and some private) I decided to just try it. It was now or never for me. I found a set of Island on sale and just decided to start at the beginning. Their grammar had been sparse anyway so I figured the review would be good. We have been doing school for 3 days. They LOVE it! They ask to do grammar first. They are a little surprised that this it? We are simply reading a bit of Grammar Island each day and talking about what we read. They are retaining it and asking for more. This is coming from two kids who loved our Grammar program last year (Grammar Punk - which we will probably keep for practice). I would say already in 3 days that they have learned new information, even at the first level. They have said that it's easy and fun to read. It makes sense and it's easy to remember. Normally their first picks for the day are either Science or History, now it's Grammar! Thank you SpyCar and everyone else for answering my seemingly endless series of questions before I jumped in with MCT! :cheers2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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