Finally have test results in hand

[jenn-]

William underwent the TOVA, WISC-IV, and WJ-III over the last couple of months after we completed 3rd grade.  He has processing speed issues that showed up on the last two items that is very apparent.  This is especially true for his math skills.  On the WJ-III he has a calculation grade equivalent of 4.4 and an applied problems equivalent of 5.0 (go MUS!).  His math fluency was only at the 1.7 mark though!  That is a huge discrepancy. 

 

Although spelling and writing samples skills showed him in the mid second grade level, I am less concerned about that as he has always been about a year behind in his spelling/writing programs (cause mommy started late on them).  His writing fluency was another hit at 1.9 though.  Still not nearly as big of a discrepancy on his math skills.

 

The big hit on his WISC-IV was again on coding and symbol search where he fell way below the average range.  Could he be having problems with dyscalculia even though he can obviously do problems when given enough time?  Is there a test for dyscalculia specifically?  I am wondering if he is seeing the numbers and symbols all screwed up in his head but is able to translate it to work when given time to so.

[kbutton]

Sounds like my 9 y.o., but he has some other diagnoses to go along with low processing speed, and his working memory is on the lower side as well. He literally rebuilds most of his math facts from scratch every time rather than retaining them. His problem solving is very good too. I allow my son to use fact charts (when they help--haven't figured out how to make a division chart he likes), and I give him the hardest problems in a section while skipping the easy ones. When he was in school, the only thing fact reviews and timed tests did for him was make him count faster on his fingers and ditch his solid mental math skills! I would really like to compare notes with you on what works or doesn't with your son as it sounds so similar. We use Singapore, but I am somewhat familiar with the lower levels of MUS.

 

No one has mentioned dyscalculia as a possibility to me--I understood that to be a problem with understanding number relationships more than anything else, but that may not be accurate. I am curious what everyone else will say.

[jenn-]

Sounds like my 9 y.o., but he has some other diagnoses to go along with low processing speed, and his working memory is on the lower side as well. He literally rebuilds most of his math facts from scratch every time rather than retaining them. His problem solving is very good too. I allow my son to use fact charts (when they help--haven't figured out how to make a division chart he likes), and I give him the hardest problems in a section while skipping the easy ones. When he was in school, the only thing fact reviews and timed tests did for him was make him count faster on his fingers and ditch his solid mental math skills! I would really like to compare notes with you on what works or doesn't with your son as it sounds so similar. We use Singapore, but I am somewhat familiar with the lower levels of MUS.

 

No one has mentioned dyscalculia as a possibility to me--I understood that to be a problem with understanding number relationships more than anything else, but that may not be accurate. I am curious what everyone else will say.

 

I am totally guessing on dyscalculia.  I figured that if dyslexia jumbles up all the letters, then maybe it is the same way for dyscalculia.  He was on the bottom of the standard deviation for normal for the Working Memory Digit Span subtest, but right on the mean for the letter-numbering sequencing subtest.  What I wouldn't give to get my hands on the actual test to see what kind of stuff goes into these subtests. 

 

He does seem to have a lot of his multiplication facts down, it just takes forever to get them out of his brain.  Only occasionally we have to start from the bottom and work up (normally this is only a problem for 8x6 8x7 and 8x8).  As to how he actually gets the answers, maybe he is starting from the bottom and working up and I just don't realize it.  Sometimes he can spit them out very quickly, but other times it is a teeth pulling exercise.  Those 100 problem timed test he is supposed to do in 5 minutes, HAHA!  make it more like an hour and he might be done.  If I read him the problems though, he can be done a lot faster. 

 

One of the suggestions his pedi recommends is to build up to those big timed test.  He said to start with something small like 3 or 4 problems and a reasonable goal time.  After he can meet the goal either reduce the time or increase the number of problems by 1.  Slow and steady increments across all of his school work should help.  His #1 suggestion... keep homeschooling him!  He would get lost without the one on one attention and the ability to learn at his own speed, even if it is slow to extract.

[kbutton]

Our son was given a label of processing LD, but he does have some of the "dys" quirks. I've heard that you can have a dyslexic processing style without have dyslexia, but I am sure it's kind of murky at times. You might check out some resources on visual spatial learners--they have some quirks that can be similar to dyslexics.

 

You might be able to see parts of the tests. I was allowed to observe but chose not to in case I was a distraction. I heard parts of the test from down the hall, and a big part of the WM test is to repeat strings of numbers back in order and in backwards order. The irony with our son is that he can recite verbal information nearly verbatim before memorizing it, both from print and from hearing it, but numbers are totally different (and unrelated words may not stick either). He also does better with math facts if they are oral--even when he reads them out loud to himself.

 

If your son's processing speed is low enough, you can get extra time for standardized tests. I would ask the tester about this as it can be harder for homeschoolers to get that kind of thing at SAT/ACT time since they don't usually have an IEP history. Our psych documented that right up front for us.

[PeterPan]

This is a ped giving the results? Dev ped? TOVA is attention and the other two are academics with some tea leaves. Did you go to a psych yet? Admittedly some run more tests than others, but yes there's more they can do than just those. Sorry to be brief. I'm pecking today on an iPad. :)

[jenn-]

This is a ped giving the results? Dev ped? TOVA is attention and the other two are academics with some tea leaves. Did you go to a psych yet? Admittedly some run more tests than others, but yes there's more they can do than just those. Sorry to be brief. I'm pecking today on an iPad. :)

 

The pedi sent us to a neuro psych for the evaluations.  I have had my follow ups with the neuro psych where he discussed his findings but never gave me solid number results to see.  We have to go through the pedi for any medications.  The neuro psych had to finalize his report when we saw him last before he would give me the testing numbers, but I happened to go to the pedi where the full report was there and he gave me a copy.  The neuro psych really didn't have much in the way of suggestions beyond, he will be a slow and steady to his destinations kind of student.

[geodob]

You asked if he could be having problems with Dyscalculia?

Numbers are words and symbols that we use to represent different sized quantities.

But with Dyscalculia, the difficulty is with concieving of different sized quantities?

Quantities are formed in the mind with Spatial processing, which spatially links things together, to form a certain sized group.

But a disorder with Spatial processing, can prevent the formation of groups in the mind.

Where it is difficult to understand why someone would need to count: 1,2,3 on their fingers?

But to understand this, you might count on your fingers, but count with A,B,C.

Though when you counted with A,B,C, , you would have had no sense of C as representing a group of C (3) fingers?

Rather you would think of C as the name for that finger?

But for Dyscalculics, they think of 3 fingers when counting, in the same way you thought of C fingers ?

 

You might then consider doing some math calculations with letters instead of numbers?

B + D= ?

B x D= ?

 

So that you could memorize that B+D=F and BxD=H.

But you would have no sense of the quantities that F and H represent?

 

What I would highlight, is that with Dyscalculia.  It is not just a difficulty with learning math, but a fundamental difficulty with concieving of numbers?

 

[jenn-]

You asked if he could be having problems with Dyscalculia?

Numbers are words and symbols that we use to represent different sized quantities.

But with Dyscalculia, the difficulty is with concieving of different sized quantities?

Quantities are formed in the mind with Spatial processing, which spatially links things together, to form a certain sized group.

But a disorder with Spatial processing, can prevent the formation of groups in the mind.

Where it is difficult to understand why someone would need to count: 1,2,3 on their fingers?

But to understand this, you might count on your fingers, but count with A,B,C.

Though when you counted with A,B,C, , you would have had no sense of C as representing a group of C (3) fingers?

Rather you would think of C as the name for that finger?

But for Dyscalculics, they think of 3 fingers when counting, in the same way you thought of C fingers ?

 

You might then consider doing some math calculations with letters instead of numbers?

B + D= ?

B x D= ?

 

So that you could memorize that B+D=F and BxD=H.

But you would have no sense of the quantities that F and H represent?

 

What I would highlight, is that with Dyscalculia.  It is not just a difficulty with learning math, but a fundamental difficulty with conceiving of numbers?

 

Thanks for the explanation.  He does not have a problem with the concepts of math.  He just has a hard time getting the concepts he knows out of his brain and down on the paper.