Counseling?

[Miss Peregrine]

Would it be unwise, in a marriage counseling situation, to bring a written list of the behaviors that need attention? I am thinking it would help me remain unemotional but I don't want to seem like I am bringing a list of wrongs that I want fixed(though I do, lol)

[Joanne]

{{hugs}}

It's ok to be emotional. :) That is what counseling is for. {{more hugs}}

There is nothing inherently wrong or beneficial to a list. If it helps you organize your thoughts, it's a helpful tool. I'd encourage you to trust the process of a qualified counselor to direct and guide you both.

 

One "downside" to a list would be it can sometimes tend to focus your thoughts on what is "wrong" and "needs work". Your counselor might want to help you build on existing marital strengths (I do a lot of this) because it is often a better investment in terms of increasing marital quality.

 

 

[Catwoman]

I agree with Joanne, but if making a list helps you to feel more confident and organized, I don't see the harm in it.

 

I do, however, see a real potential for confrontation if you whip out the list in the middle of a counseling session and start reading it out loud, like a list of demands. :D

 

Maybe you could make up a list and give it to your counselor privately, so he or she will be aware of your concerns, yet it won't look like you're placing a lot of blame and venting all of your anger at the actual counseling sessions with your dh. That way, the counselor can try to focus on the positives, yet still know where there are hot-button issues.

[Mrs Mungo]

Errr...I am not a marriage counselor. But, personally? I find it better to present problems in I statement form. I need X (help with the housework, date nights, quality time, whatever) to feel Y (secure, loved, etc). When I don't receive X, then I feel Z (unsafe, worried, stressed, alone, etc). When you do A (golf, watch tv, play video games) instead of X, then I feel you are prioritizing A over me, which makes me feel B.

 

A list of "thou shalts" (or shalt nots) will generally not be received well.

[LucyStoner]

I regularly make notes of things I don't want to forget to mention in my son's various appointments (autism so many different providers).  I do the same thing for my own counseling sessions.  So long as it is just a tool for you to remember things, I don't see how it could be harmful.  Often my lists include positive things I want remember to mention.  It's hard to remember all relevant stuff in the space of one appointment and often I have felt like I have wasted my appointment when I forget to mention something that has been happening but just not in the 1-2 days before the appointment.  

 

When my husband and I have done more regular counseling, I have done the same but it's not a list of demands.  Just a list so I don't sit there in the session saying "um, er, things are going great today (without recalling specific highs and lows/patterns over 6-30 days between appointments).  Now, we just see someone once or twice a year for a checkin/tuneup and we usually generate a list of things we want to discuss with a third party together in advance.  Like an agenda, I kid you not.  Wow, typing that out I really realize just how nerdy we really are.  

[Danestress]

I would feel sabotaged if my DH did that without having talked to me about it ahead of time.

 

I also would find all the 'I' statements very annoying. I know it is conventional wisdom, but I am direct and prefer directness. It feels condescending to me when some one always tries to express things in the most tactful "I need help with .... I feel loved when ..." way.

 

But I am a woman. I don't know how these things might seem to a man.

[milovany]

Just don't be shocked if your husband has a similar list. ;)

[Miss Peregrine]

{{hugs}}

 

It's ok to be emotional. :) That is what counseling is for. {{more hugs}}

 

There is nothing inherently wrong or beneficial to a list. If it helps you organize your thoughts, it's a helpful tool. I'd encourage you to trust the process of a qualified counselor to direct and guide you both.

 

One "downside" to a list would be it can sometimes tend to focus your thoughts on what is "wrong" and "needs work". Your counselor might want to help you build on existing marital strengths (I do a lot of this) because it is often a better investment in terms of increasing marital quality.

Thanks. Wish I was closer to Texas.  :auto:

 

I agree with Joanne, but if making a list helps you to feel more confident and organized, I don't see the harm in it.

 

I do, however, see a real potential for confrontation if you whip out the list in the middle of a counseling session and start reading it out loud, like a list of demands. :D

 

Maybe you could make up a list and give it to your counselor privately, so he or she will be aware of your concerns, yet it won't look like you're placing a lot of blame and venting all of your anger at the actual counseling sessions with your dh. That way, the counselor can try to focus on the positives, yet still know where there are hot-button issues.

 

:lol: 

Errr...I am not a marriage counselor. But, personally? I find it better to present problems in I statement form. I need X (help with the housework, date nights, quality time, whatever) to feel Y (secure, loved, etc). When I don't receive X, then I feel Z (unsafe, worried, stressed, alone, etc). When you do A (golf, watch tv, play video games) instead of X, then I feel you are prioritizing A over me, which makes me feel B.

 

A list of "thou shalts" (or shalt nots) will generally not be received well.

He has heard it all for so long. And he calls statements like that "psychology crap" :glare:

[Miss Peregrine]

I regularly make notes of things I don't want to forget to mention in my son's various appointments (autism so many different providers).  I do the same thing for my own counseling sessions.  So long as it is just a tool for you to remember things, I don't see how it could be harmful.  Often my lists include positive things I want remember to mention.  It's hard to remember all relevant stuff in the space of one appointment and often I have felt like I have wasted my appointment when I forget to mention something that has been happening but just not in the 1-2 days before the appointment.  

 

When my husband and I have done more regular counseling, I have done the same but it's not a list of demands.  Just a list so I don't sit there in the session saying "um, er, things are going great today (without recalling specific highs and lows/patterns over 6-30 days between appointments).  Now, we just see someone once or twice a year for a checkin/tuneup and we usually generate a list of things we want to discuss with a third party together in advance.  Like an agenda, I kid you not.  Wow, typing that out I really realize just how nerdy we really are.  

Yeah, not a list of demands. It is a list of the ways his hypervigilance and treatment of his family affect us.

 

I would feel sabotaged if my DH did that without having talked to me about it ahead of time.

 

I also would find all the 'I' statements very annoying. I know it is conventional wisdom, but I am direct and prefer directness. It feels condescending to me when some one always tries to express things in the most tactful "I need help with .... I feel loved when ..." way.

 

But I am a woman. I don't know how these things might seem to a man.

He knows these things so they are no surprise. He just doesn't believe he does them.

 

Just don't be shocked if your husband has a similar list. ;)

That would be great. If he does then he could clearly see that my shortcomings are in how I react to his behavior.

[Belacqua]

Just don't be shocked if your husband has a similar list. ;)

 

You could even create your own list of things you want to improve upon (things about yourself, that is) in addition to stuff you want him to change. That way it would be less of a slideshow of his faults (TM Charles Schultz) and more about strengthening the marriage in general.

[gardenmom5]

I think if you put your list together (for yourself, not to share with your spouse or counselor) - and then look for commonalities in the things included.   as you write things down, you will start to see how things are similar.  that should start you on what the underlying problem is.   then bring just the one or two top behaviors that you find repeating themselves.  think about it - do you want to improve the relationship or just bash your spouse?  often it's one or two areas that affect other things, and as those things are improved, many other things will also fall into line. 

 

one or two things will give him something to see that is hopefully small enough he can work through them to make things better.  don't overwhelm your spouse with a grievance list.

 

keep in mind, counseling isn't going to help someone who isn't willing to be introspective or be vulnerable and willing to change.

 

 

[Miss Peregrine]

I think if you put your list together (for yourself, not to share with your spouse or counselor) - and then look for commonalities in the things included.   as you write things down, you will start to see how things are similar.  that should start you on what the underlying problem is.   then bring just the one or two top behaviors that you find repeating themselves.  think about it - do you want to improve the relationship or just bash your spouse?  often it's one or two areas that affect other things, and as those things are improved, many other things will also fall into line. 

 

one or two things will give him something to see that is hopefully small enough he can work through them to make things better.  don't overwhelm your spouse with a grievance list.

 

keep in mind, counseling isn't going to help someone who isn't willing to be introspective or be vulnerable and willing to change.

I have no one to confide in so yeah, I want someone to know how he treats me. That is terrible of me, I fully admit. I don't know which one of those I want yet.

I don't even know if he'll go. He has said in the past that he would never go, counseling is  a crock, etc. I made the appt 3 weeks ago and I am anxious about how to tell him. I already know what his reaction will be, which is one of the reasons we need to go.

[Dandelion]

I think lists can be very beneficial in helping you get everything "out" that you would like to change in your marriage.  IME once you start writing, things start flowing and what you're writing down triggers other thoughts, needs, wants, etc.  It's a great way to capture and clarify where you stand with respect to your marriage.

 

That said, I don't think it's beneficial to use the entirety of that list in a counseling session.  I agree with gardenmom5 - it's much better to identify one or two issues for each session.  Because realistically, that's all you're going to be able to tackle in one session anyway.  Trying to address more than that (even if all you're doing is just sharing all of your frustrations) will just lead to your DH feeling overwhelmed and you possibly feeling more frustrated than before.  

 

My advice would be to ask yourself before each counseling session:  "What is the one result I would like to achieve in this next session?  What one issue, if addressed, would make the biggest difference for me and for our marriage right now?"  And then clearly define that one result, both in terms of what it means to you and how you want to present it to your DH.  Write that down and take it with you to the session.  

 

:grouphug:

 

[Mrs Mungo]

Have you considered trying counseling on your own first? I'm sure it's nothing the counselor has not dealt with before. The counselor may be able to give you strategies to talk to him in a non-psychology-crap manner and/or strategies to make him understand that you both need this. 

 

I'm also going to PM you with something a little more personal. 

[gardenmom5]

I have no one to confide in so yeah, I want someone to know how he treats me. That is terrible of me, I fully admit. I don't know which one of those I want yet.

I don't even know if he'll go. He has said in the past that he would never go, counseling is  a crock, etc. I made the appt 3 weeks ago and I am anxious about how to tell him. I already know what his reaction will be, which is one of the reasons we need to go.

I don't know how he treats you.  Only you can say whether it is emotionally/psychologically abusive, or he just needs to grow up.

journal to get your feelings out.  as things flow, it can be very enlightening.  you will start to see patterns, and armed with the patterns will give much more opportunity for success with a counselor.

don't count on one subject per visit, expect multiple visits per subject to make real progress.

 

are you saying you've scheduled an appointment for both of you with a counselor, and you haven't told him about an appointment at which he's expected to show up too?  (that's indicative of a problem - on both sides.)

 

if your dh won't go to the counselor, you can still see the counselor by yourself, you can be much more forthright and hopefully the counselor can give you guidance on what direction to go.  unless he is wiling to be introspective, he probably will not gain anything from counseling.

 

questions for each of you to ask yourselves.  how badly do you want to make the relationship work?  are you both willing to do what that takes?  (it can be very uncomfortable because true intimacy requires emotional vulnerability on both sides, and that's probably part of why he thinks it's all such a crock.)   He does need the opportunity to answer those questions, no matter how uncomfortable they make him.

 

if you need to visit with a counselor one on one to be able to answer those questions for yourself, do so. 

and last - remember counselors vary,  you want someone with whom you fit.  don't be afraid to change if you need too.

[Miss Peregrine]

Have you considered trying counseling on your own first? I'm sure it's nothing the counselor has not dealt with before. The counselor may be able to give you strategies to talk to him in a non-psychology-crap manner and/or strategies to make him understand that you both need this. 

 

I'm also going to PM you with something a little more personal.

 

  

I plan on going whether he does or not. I went in the past, several years ago, for depression. He was indifferent about it.

I don't know how he treats you.  Only you can say whether it is emotionally/psychologically abusive, or he just needs to grow up.

journal to get your feelings out.  as things flow, it can be very enlightening.  you will start to see patterns, and armed with the patterns will give much more opportunity for success with a counselor.

don't count on one subject per visit, expect multiple visits per subject to make real progress.

 

are you saying you've scheduled an appointment for both of you with a counselor, and you haven't told him about an appointment at which he's expected to show up too?  (that's indicative of a problem - on both sides.)

 

if your dh won't go to the counselor, you can still see the counselor by yourself, you can be much more forthright and hopefully the counselor can give you guidance on what direction to go.  unless he is wiling to be introspective, he probably will not gain anything from counseling.

 

questions for each of you to ask yourselves.  how badly do you want to make the relationship work?  are you both willing to do what that takes?  (it can be very uncomfortable because true intimacy requires emotional vulnerability on both sides, and that's probably part of why he thinks it's all such a crock.)   He does need the opportunity to answer those questions, no matter how uncomfortable they make him.

 

if you need to visit with a counselor one on one to be able to answer those questions for yourself, do so. 

and last - remember counselors vary,  you want someone with whom you fit.  don't be afraid to change if you need too.

Yes, I made the appointment for both of us. I probably will tell him in the next few days. If he has too much time to stew about it, I think he will try and bully me into canceling. He does know that I was looking into them. He just doesn't know I found one.

[Joanne]

I have no one to confide in so yeah, I want someone to know how he treats me. That is terrible of me, I fully admit. I don't know which one of those I want yet.

I don't even know if he'll go. He has said in the past that he would never go, counseling is  a crock, etc. I made the appt 3 weeks ago and I am anxious about how to tell him. I already know what his reaction will be, which is one of the reasons we need to go.

 

 

Please don't answer or respond on this board, ok?

But if "the way he treats you" or your fear are due to a pattern found on the link below, marital counseling is contraindicated.

 

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/powercontrolwheelnoshading.pdf

 

*IF* the above is applicable, please know that abusive spouses do not get better with general marital counseling, and it often makes things worse for the abused spouse.

[kwg]

:grouphug:  Hope at least you went.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[gardenmom5]

Please don't answer or respond on this board, ok?

But if "the way he treats you" or your fear are due to a pattern found on the link below, marital counseling is contraindicated.

 

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/powercontrolwheelnoshading.pdf

 

*IF* the above is applicable, please know that abusive spouses do not get better with general marital counseling, and it often makes things worse for the abused spouse.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I couldn't open it.  It's possible I need to update adobe. (except adobe is otherwise running fine on my computer.)

[Night Elf]

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I couldn't open it.  It's possible I need to update adobe. (except adobe is otherwise running fine on my computer.)

 

I could open it, so maybe it is your adobe? I can't remember the last time mine updated.

[Miss Peregrine]

Appt. is this afternoon. DH is going.

[BrookValley.]

Good luck. I hope it is productive and you find some answers. :)

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Good luck. I hope it is productive and you find some answers. :)

 

This. And some of these too  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I'm hoping for the best, for all of you.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

I hope you both like the counselor, and that you are in agreement that further sessions are a good idea.

 

I'm relieved to hear that he's willing to go with you.

[8circles]

I have no one to confide in so yeah, I want someone to know how he treats me. That is terrible of me, I fully admit. I don't know which one of those I want yet.

I don't even know if he'll go. He has said in the past that he would never go, counseling is  a crock, etc. I made the appt 3 weeks ago and I am anxious about how to tell him. I already know what his reaction will be, which is one of the reasons we need to go.

 

NO.  No, it isn't terrible of you at all.  I don't know your story but it isn't terrible at all to want people to know that you're suffering.

 

I'm sorry.  :grouphug:

 

& no, I don't think a list is necessarily a bad idea.

 

ETA:  I really hope it went well for you.  So glad he agreed to go.

[Miss Peregrine]

I hope you both like the counselor, and that you are in agreement that further sessions are a good idea.

 

I'm relieved to hear that he's willing to go with you.

He actually did like him. When we first got there he told the MFT that he was not going to talk, only listen because he was only there because of me. He did talk, quite a bit, actually and we are going back.

 

I feel like I've been hit by a truck. Tears are flowing from this strange place, feels weird.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:  :grouphug: :grouphug:  

[Joanne]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

Good for you both! It's awesome when clients come when they can build on existing good elements on the relationship, and before everything has deteriorated.