I need advice on child who "hates herself"...

[Jumping In Puddles]

My niece, who is 5 years old was with us yesterday and was playing with my kids at a playground. She gave my son a very typical little shove at one point and I simply said "no pushing" and continued to read my book.

 

She comes running over and says "I hate myself, I hate my life and I am a bad kid! That's why I do naughty things because I'm just a bad kid and I hate myself. I feel like I'm going to cry."

 

I said, don't say that... If you find yourself saying that I want you to say "I'm a good kid, I'm sorry I pushed you." She said ok and went on playing.

 

Her mom shows up, I tell her, and she says she has been saying that a lot lately and she has no idea where its from or how to deal with it and she asked me for advice and I had no advice. :( She also said, that neither she nor her husband ever talk that way or tell the girl she's bad.

 

Just for backround: She goes to school at a daycare/preschool in town because her parents work. She has been attending the school since she was 6 months old. She is otherwise a normal happy kid.

 

Thanks for any help or advice. :)

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I would hazard a guess that another child she is in frequent contact with is telling her things that make her think like this as a form of manipulation.

 

I've had similar experiences with 2 of my kids.

[Melinda]

Let me preface this by saying that we have *never* spoken to our child this way, either.

 

About a month ago, our almost 4yo DD was saying things almost exactly the same as what your niece said. The first time I heard it, I was shocked and had no idea what to say. I told her that it wasn't very nice to say mean things, even to yourself and that she is not a bad child.

The next day, it continued. I sat down with her and asked why she felt this way. Apparently, she overheard my sister (31 years old, but with a lot of emotional issues) telling my mom and me how much she hates herself and a lot of other things a child should not have to be witness to. We were at my parents house and my sister blew up at us in the kitchen while everybody else was watching a movie in the next room. They live 12 hours from us and we were staying with them, so DH and the kids really couldn't just leave.

 

-Anyhow-

 

My whole point is just that she may have overheard somebody saying something that had nothing to do with her, and decided to try on the feelings that person expressed. Or, she may be just trying to get a rise out of you (this was also the case with my daughter). Good luck, and I hope you guys figure this out quickly. It's heartbreaking to hear a child say this.

[Pamela H in Texas]

She comes running over and says "I hate myself, I hate my life and I am a bad kid! That's why I do naughty things because I'm just a bad kid and I hate myself. I feel like I'm going to cry."

 

Two thoughts...

 

1) she may have been told something of the sort. That is a scary possibility, but sometimes that stuff happens. Or she might have heard it somewhere where someone else felt that way?

 

2) some kids are MUCH MUCH MUCH more sensitive than they may let on in other ways. The quote above is something my son spent much of his life believing. He IS a tougher kiddo but by no means bad. He just takes his own behavior, discipline, etc to heart so deeply. It really HURT him. At one time, he scared a young friend of his doubting there was a God that even cared!

 

There was one paragraph in a Bible study aid that made this boy break down in tears and he's been different ever since. He finally got that---there is a God, He loves him, He hates to see him hurt so much, He didn't cause this, neither did Tyler, and the real reason there is so much trouble in this world and for individuals. Knowing the truth from the Bible made a LOT of difference.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure a 5yo could *get* it like my son did. And it sounds like this child doesn't have over-the-top other issues to deal with so may not relate in the same way yet anyway.

 

I think your response to her was good and that it just may take time.

 

One idea? Mom could have her tallymark each time she does feel like that. And then do what you said and turn it around. She could see that each tallymark covers just a minute or two of time and that that means that the great majority of the time she feels just fine about herself...and rightfully so. Sometimes kids (and adults) think a feeling is prevalent but it's really not. Being able to recognize that they normally feel just fine about themselves can really help :)

[Tess in the Burbs]

Wow, I could have written that statement. And when my son started doing it I was shocked! We do have household rules and talk about right vs wrong being Christians.

 

So my son was probably 4.5 or 5 when he started saying he was so bad and would cry about it.

 

I never said he was bad. But yes, he had heard about sin and making right choices.

 

It did pass, with lots of love/reassurance from mom that he is not a bad kid, but he truly seemed bothered that he made bad choices.

 

I had no idea why your niece said what she said, but just keep telling her she is good. Capable of making good and bad choices but overall she is very very good!

[kalanamak]

Unless there are other grave signs, I think kids do this to test the waters and see what the grown ups will do. It may be this child has gotten out of "trouble" by doing this, and has learned that she will get cuddles and "no you are wonderful" rather than that mild verbal reprimand.

Unless there were other grave signs about her emotional state, I'd give her very little heed when she did this.

YMMV

[Scarlett]

Unless there are other grave signs, I think kids do this to test the waters and see what the grown ups will do. It may be this child has gotten out of "trouble" by doing this, and has learned that she will get cuddles and "no you are wonderful" rather than that mild verbal reprimand.

Unless there were other grave signs about her emotional state, I'd give her very little heed when she did this.

YMMV

 

I lean toward this answer. My ds8 is a sensitive and emotional and highly dramatic boy. Is he ever. :tongue_smilie: So when he causes himself to lose some privilege he will say things like that (I'm so stupid! I'm an idiot!) and even hit himself in the head with his little fist! It is very distressing, but I am just calm and firm with him. I say, 'ds, I don't allow you to call anyone such ugly names, and I that goes double for my precious son.' Or, 'We don't hit--especially my sweet boy.'

 

I think with my son it might possibly be a combination of manipulation attempt, frustration at himself, and overall dramatic personality.

 

Oh and I have noticed my dh saying things about himself similar to this. For instance, playing a game on the computer with ds...if dh makes a mistake he will say, 'I'm an idiot!!!' So we (dh and I) had a long talk about THAT example. :) So maybe this little girl's parents (one or both) are modeling behavior (about themselves) that they don't even realize. I don't think they would have to be telling HER SHE is bad for her to take that on.

[JFSinIL]

I'd have her folks talk to the daycare folks, too - is she saying these things there? Is another kid picking on her and saying this to her?

[abbeyej]

Well, my only experience with something like this was when ds had PANDAS, which is highly unlikely in this case, but I'll throw it out there...

 

He had a strep infection go untreated (I knew he was ill, but the symptoms were slightly unusual or strep and did not include a sore throat -- so even though I had taken him in to the ped three times in the previous two months, he had never been checked or treated for strep, even though his sister had had it during that time), and it caused an autoimmune reaction that brought on *sudden*, *intense* OCD symptoms. He confessed *constantly*, often to actions he hadn't even done, much less things that deserved a confession or apology (I thought about passing gas; I thought about a bad word; I touched that piece of paper and it's yours) on and on, dozens of times an *hour*. He thought there was something wrong with the foods he ate; if his hand brushed against someone else, he thought he had hit them; he could no longer make decisions for fear of choosing "wrong"; he perceived a strong difference between what he knew to be true about the world and what he "felt" about the world...

 

Anyway, it's a bizarre and unlikely thing. But if this truly came on suddenly (I can pinpoint the exact day it started for ds), if she had (or may have had) strep recently, if there are other symptoms... It's worth reading up about PANDAS to see if it might fit. (If it came on slowly, but there are other strange behavioral symptoms, it's also possible that she's got a more typical development of OCD or another anxiety disorder.)

 

So I throw it out there.

 

But I think it far more likely that others are right -- that she's experimenting and testing and growing, and part of that is trying out new ways of describing herself... In a way asking, "AM I bad, if I shoved someone? What is it that makes someone bad?"

[Jumping In Puddles]

Thanks everyone for the advice and suggestions. I'll pass along to my SIL or maybe show her this thread.

 

Thanks again. :)

[Nestof3]

It is possible she says that as a way of getting out of taking responsibility for her actions. I know that might sound crazy, but after Ben would do something he knew he shouldn't do, he would say something like, "I never can do anything right. I wish I weren't born." At first I showered him with affection and such for thinking such things.

 

Then, he caught on that the way to avoid the unpleasantries of doing something wrong, he could flaunt such a display of "of -- what a wretch am I!" and all would be forgiven without a "lecture" or and other consequences.

 

I soon caught on to his manipulation.

[Jumping In Puddles]

It is possible she says that as a way of getting out of taking responsibility for her actions. I know that might sound crazy, but after Ben would do something he knew he shouldn't do, he would say something like, "I never can do anything right. I wish I weren't born." At first I showered him with affection and such for thinking such things.

 

Then, he caught on that the way to avoid the unpleasantries of doing something wrong, he could flaunt such a display of "of -- what a wretch am I!" and all would be forgiven without a "lecture" or and other consequences.

 

I soon caught on to his manipulation.

 

I have been wondering if it was for attention but she didn't even really get in trouble (in this instance) I simply said "no pushing" then I expected her to keep playing or just ignore me like my kids do but she came running up to me.

 

Maybe since I don't normally discipline her (because I'm her aunt) maybe she thought I was mad at her? When she does it with her parents she may just be looking for attention.

 

Thanks for the comments.

[abbeyej]

I just wanted to add two quick things I should have mentioned before...

 

First, the acronym PANDAS stands for Pediatric Autoimmune Neuro-Psychiatric Disorder Associated with Strep.

 

Second, ds did recover fully. The antibiotics for strep made a huge difference in a matter of days, and he recovered completely over the next 2-3 months.

 

Again, I doubt this is it. But if someone hadn't mentioned the possibility of PANDAS to us early on when I was panicking over ds' sudden, extreme change in personality/behavior, I don't know how long it would have taken for him to get treatment and recover.

[melissel]

From what I've read, this is within the range of normal (though upsetting!) behavior around this age. They have strong feelings and they can't necessarily process them all, so they voice them in extreme ways--like when your (ok, MY) three-year-old says "I hate you!!!! Can you read me this book and snuggle with me?" I think you handled it well, and I'm glad your sister is aware of it. I'm sure it's one of those dramatic little kid phases.

[WTMindy]

If the family is a Christian family, I would use this as a time to talk about God's amazing, forgiving love. Everyone in the world makes bad choices at times, yet God created us, forgives us and LOVES us more than we can imagine. Therefore, we should love what God loves. I would also say that it is a good thing to be bothered by the sin that we see in our own lives and recognize it as such, but to ask forgiveness and KNOW that God forgives!!

 

I would also (after making sure there wasn't anything more serious going on) not give in to manipulations. Children learn so early what will get strong reactions from adults. So, I would try very hard to not to over-react to these types of statements, but patiently remind them of God's love.

[Rosie_0801]

But I've usually dealt with that sort of thing by being mildly rude, because it's completely different to the response they get from anyone else. I'd have said something like "Oh rubbish. If you were that bad I wouldn't ever talk to you, would I?" The usual response is for the kiddie to look at me in surprise, consider what I've said, decide it makes sense and run off happily.

Rosie- Former "nasty" guide leader (to 6 year olds) who's kids all loved her.